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Re-examining Aizen's Existence Erasure & Resistances

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Damage3245

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After a couple of recent CRTs that had to do with Aizen's passive existence erasure, I thought it was about time to re-examine Aizen's feats for this and see if the current wording on the profile could be improved.

This is what the profile says currently:


That's a justification which I think is slightly more generous than what the linked feat implies.

The Feats

To explain my thought process on this, I'll go over Aizen's feats for this in order:

1) Aizen comes across some humans in Karakura Town and basically walks through them. They can't sense how powerful he is, but his sheer amount of spiritual energy is more than what their spirits can withstand so any humans that he passes through get their bodies cleanly erased. [Chapter 409]

- Aizen states: "Don't come near me. Humans can't sense my power because they can't sense spirit energy. But their spirits are unable to withstand my power."

2) Don Kanonji charges foolishly at Aizen who warns him against such action, saying that any human who comes into contact with him will "cease to exist", and the tip of Don Kanonji's staff begins to be erased as proof of this. [Chapter 411]

- Aizen states: "Don't. Any human who comes into contact with me will cease to exist."

3) While Aizen is mostly sealed inside Soul Society's prison (after Aizen has been imprisoned there for over a year, and has grown more powerful than before) one of the prison guard dudes accompanying Shunsui foolishly approaches Aizen and gets his hands erased after approaching too closely. [Chapter 618]

- Aizen states: "Such gross carelessness. These restraints do not eliminate my spiritual pressure. They only keep it near me. I don't have to tell you what will happen if you try to touch me."

So Aizen's spiritual energy after achieving a transcendental state is so powerful that mere humans will be erased by close contact even though they can't sense his power, and after he's grown even more powerful later in the series even a Shinigami was partially erased after getting too close to Aizen.

Note that nowhere in the scans does it say "Anything" will be erased, which is what our current justification claims.


Supporting Points

Now, I don't believe this is a universal application of Aizen's spiritual power. It's very easy to boil things down to just "hax" and say "If Aizen can erase one person's body / soul, then his aura of spiritual pressure ignores durability completely and will erase anyone and everyone [unless they're somehow resistant to it]".

But I don't think that is what is happening here.

Aizen says in the first two examples that "humans can't withstand his spiritual energy" and "any human in contact with him will cease to exist." Why mention humans? It's not because his spiritual energy only works on humans but because they're just so absolutely weak compared to Aizen that they're the ones who are going to be erased. They're bottom of the barrel. The gap could not be larger between them.

However characters with stronger spirits, AKA Shinigami, will not be affected to that degree.

1) One supporting points for this is when we see a character who is spiritual stronger than a human come into contact with Aizen, the effect is far less pronoucned. Gin gets swatted by Aizen as he's betraying him and trying to steal the Hogyoku from Aizen, but when we see the damage to Gin's arm, only a small portion of his arm has been erased. Compared to when a human had half his body simply wiped out up above in the first example.

To me, this seems to be because the difference between Gin and Aizen, while still monumental, was not enough to Aizen's spiritual energy to simply erase him completely.

Not a special resistance; just a difference in the gaps of spiritual energy between the characters.

2) Another supporting point is that when Aizen actually faces down people who are relatively comparable or superior to him, such as Ichigo or Yhwach, he doesn't erase even a little bit of their body, unlike Gin's in the above example.

I do not think it is because they just so happen to be specially resistant to having their existences erased, but because their spirits are more than strong enough to the point where they wouldn't be vulnerable to that effect of Aizen's spiritual energy.

3) Lastly, Aizen's wording of humans being unable to "withstand his spiritual energy" is similar to how Don Kanonji (with only a little amount of energy) was able to stand within Aizen's presence for a minute or so before finally being overwhelmed just by Aizen's passive aura. Aizen commended him for "withstanding his spiritual energy" for as long as he did.

In much the same way as how even an ant like Don Kanonji can withstand Aizen's passive spiritual energy for a short while, the same would apply to the other effects of Aizen's spiritual energy. Of course Don Kanonji's spiritual energy alone is not sufficient to prevent him from being erased by Aizen but for characters who do not suffer from this monumental gap in strength, Aizen's energy would not have the same effect on them.

Proposal

1) We reword Aizen's ability to something like this:

Limited Passive Existence Erasure (Aizen's Reiatsu is so potent that anyone with a sufficiently weak spirit will be erased by extremely close contact with him. This effect also applies to inanimate objects to an extent as Don Kanonji's staff was erased, but the chair which Aizen was restrained to was unaffected.)

2) We remove the resistances to existence erasure from Aizen, Ichigo and Yhwach for this. They're not resisting the existence erasure itself, they're not just weak enough to the point where Aizen's energy would significantly affect them like humans or low-level Shinigami.
 
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I agree with the CRT. Shunsui is standing next to Aizen and coming from behind the chair after carrying him to the battlefield. Shunsui is not been affected by Aizen's EE.



We remove the resistances to existence erasure from Aizen
But perhaps this part specifically needs to be reworded instead of been removed from Aizen’s profile. Yamamoto’s Bankai and the Kido Haien have EE and Mayuri said nothing in Soul Society can kill Aizen. In the novels, is also implied that after Yhwach absorbed Aizen he regenerated from “nothing” in another different company barracks days later. We know Aizen regeneration is instant, so the delay could had been because of Yhwach’s Almighty power null. We don’t have clear explanations of the events, as in statements, but it’s how is presented.
 
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This makes sense to me from a quick glance, but I'd like to wait for Arc to reply before fully casting my vote.
 
I thought he had EE for exactly that reason you mention. some characters don't have a good resistance to soul manipulation/destruction so those with little or no resistance are erased by their reiatsu
 
1) One supporting points for this is when we see a character who is spiritual stronger than a human come into contact with Aizen, the effect is far less pronoucned. Gin gets swatted by Aizen as he's betraying him and trying to steal the Hogyoku from Aizen, but when we see the damage to Gin's arm, only a small portion of his arm has been erased. Compared to when a human had half his body simply wiped out up above in the first example.

To me, this seems to be because the difference between Gin and Aizen, while still monumental, was not enough to Aizen's spiritual energy to simply erase him completely.
seems you are not going to even bother to mention the fact that during that time Aizen was purposefully lowering his Reiatsu
 
I'll possibly respond to this post here in a couple days given i was the person who gave Aizen his EE but given the fact i'm starting to get sick again and that my "wantingness" to debate Bleach has dropped considerably, i doubt i will.

But i'll say that i completely disagree with changing Aizen's EE to what you're proposing and just leave at that until i possibly make a fuller, more detailed post.
 
seems you are not going to even bother to mention the fact that during that time Aizen was purposefully lowering his Reiatsu
Aizen's Reiatsu may have been lowered, but he was still perfectly capable of EE.
 
Aizen's Reiatsu may have been lowered, but he was still perfectly capable of EE.
of course, as we can see, however the comment of how the difference of gin and aizen was not that great therefore weaker does not really hold the same weight when the character was limiting himself, as ur comment implies aizen was not limiting himself
 
I'll possibly respond to this post here in a couple days given i was the person who gave Aizen his EE but given the fact i'm starting to get sick again and that my "wantingness" to debate Bleach has dropped considerably, i doubt i will.

But i'll say that i completely disagree with changing Aizen's EE to what you're proposing and just leave at that until i possibly make a fuller, more detailed post.
🗿🗿🗿
 
of course, as we can see, however the comment of how the difference of gin and aizen was not that great therefore weaker does not really hold the same weight when the character was limiting himself, as ur comment implies aizen was not limiting himself
I didn't say Aizen was not limiting himself. We are talking about Aizen's passive aura in the first place, not when he focuses and amplifies his energy. So assume for all of these situations that he is not going all-out anyway.
 
Always thought this was how it worked. Aizen speaks to Soi-Fon saying "u joking right? "You finna kill me" head ass. Shut yo goofy ass up we both know if ur reiatsu aint strong enough, then it wont work on me, this weak shit aint gunna cut it chief." This is WORD FOR WORD FROM THE MANGA

And then Aizen can erase mfs, but can stop that erasure by lowering his reiatsu (this is an assumption correct me if wrong) so i just thought "oh if he lowers his reaitsu to their lvl it wont, but if he lvls it to a higher lvl it will work as the reaitsu diff is high".

But then again, i am admittedly a ******* idiot. So eh i might be wrong, but who isnt wrong sometimes (or all of the time). So i'll agree
 
I agree with the CRT. Shunsui is standing next to Aizen and coming from behind the chair after carrying him to the battlefield. Shunsui is not been affected by Aizen's EE.




But perhaps this part specifically needs to be reworded instead of been removed from Aizen’s profile. Yamamoto’s Bankai and the Kido Haien have EE and Mayuri said nothing in Soul Society can kill Aizen. In the novels, is also implied that after Yhwach absorbed Aizen he regenerated from “nothing” in another different company barracks days later. We know Aizen regeneration is instant, so the delay could had been because of Yhwach’s Almighty power null. We don’t have clear explanations of the events, as in statements, but it’s how is presented.

Shunsui not even close enough to be erased in that scan. Before that aizen literally said shun would have got erased if he got to close to him
 
2) Don Kanonji charges foolishly at Aizen who warns him against such action, saying that any human who comes into contact with him will "cease to exist", and the tip of Don Kanonji's staff begins to be erased as proof of this. [Chapter 411]


Proposal

1) We reword Aizen's ability to something like this:

Limited Passive Existence Erasure (Aizen's Reiatsu is so potent that anyone with a sufficiently weak spirit will be erased by extremely close contact with him. This effect also applies to inanimate objects to an extent as Don Kanonji's staff was erased, but the chair which Aizen was restrained to was unaffected.)
I am not very familiar with Bleach at at all, but despite my likely ignorance, I feel concerned.

Aren't the characters Spirit Reapers, in a spirit world? Their forms & clothes an extension of themselves, & their weapons tied to their Spirit Energy or something like that?

Thus, if this is spirits in a spirit world, are we sure the staff wasn't just a spiritual extension of Don Kanonji's soul or such, rather than a mundane physical object?
I mean, for one, I don't know why there would be mundane objects that'd be typical of the physical world in a spirit world.

Again, please forgive my ignornace in my prying into this Bleach-related matter.
 
I am not very familiar with Bleach at at all, but despite my likely ignorance, I feel concerned.

Aren't the characters Spirit Reapers, in a spirit world? Their forms & clothes an extension of themselves, & their weapons tied to their Spirit Energy or something like that?

Thus, if this is spirits in a spirit world, are we sure the staff wasn't just a spiritual extension of Don Kanonji's soul or such, rather than a mundane physical object?
I mean, for one, I don't know why there would be mundane objects that'd be typical of the physical world in a spirit world.

Again, please forgive my ignornace in my prying into this Bleach-related matter.
Don kanonji is not a shinigami/soul ripper, just a human guy, his staff has no powers nor is it anything special

also there are more than 1 world

Human world, which is the universe for all living things like humans

SS which is the universe where the shinigami are

HM which is where the hollows (monsters) live
 
Thus, if this is spirits in a spirit world, are we sure the staff wasn't just a spiritual extension of Don Kanonji's soul or such, rather than a mundane physical object?
I mean, for one, I don't know why there would be mundane objects that'd be typical of the physical world in a spirit world.
No, it was a regular staff. Pretty sure Aizen by just walking erased the dust and smoke around him from an explosion as well. So it can affect physical matter.
 
Don kanonji is not a shinigami/soul ripper, just a human guy, his staff has no powers nor is it anything special

also there are more than 1 world

Human world, which is the universe for all living things like humans

SS which is the universe where the shinigami are

HM which is where the hollows (monsters) live
Oh okay. & for what its worth, there aren't instances of Reiatsu (Aizen's nor otherwise) erasing weapons & other spiritually created constructs, only instances of erasing human Souls?
No, it was a regular staff. Pretty sure Aizen by just walking erased the dust and smoke around him from an explosion as well. So it can affect physical matter.
I presume the dust/smoke erasure is also depicted in the manga? Forgive my asking, but how do we know it isn't the dust/smoke just naturally dissipating?
 
Oh okay. & for what its worth, there aren't instances of Reiatsu (Aizen's nor otherwise) erasing weapons & other spiritually created constructs, only instances of erasing human Souls?

I presume the dust/smoke erasure is also depicted in the manga? Forgive my asking, but how do we know it isn't the dust/smoke just naturally dissipating?
everyone is human souls, shinigami are basiclally human souls that have more energy than normal souls, he has erased normal humans and can erase shinigami as well as hollows, which are a combination of millions to hundred of millions of human souls

cus we have statements that it erases the things that get close
 
Unfortunately life happened and I didn't get around to this. I ask for this weekend to comment, but certainly if I don't comment by this weekend's end, by all means proceed without me.
 
I am not very familiar with Bleach at at all, but despite my likely ignorance, I feel concerned.

Aren't the characters Spirit Reapers, in a spirit world? Their forms & clothes an extension of themselves, & their weapons tied to their Spirit Energy or something like that?

Thus, if this is spirits in a spirit world, are we sure the staff wasn't just a spiritual extension of Don Kanonji's soul or such, rather than a mundane physical object?
I mean, for one, I don't know why there would be mundane objects that'd be typical of the physical world in a spirit world.

Again, please forgive my ignornace in my prying into this Bleach-related matter.
In this specific scenario, Aizen wanted to destroy the town in Earth but the Soul Reapers teleported the town and all the people to the Soul World and obviously converted everything into Soul Matter (Reishi) as Kishi (Matter) cannot simply enter Soul Society without been converted. That staff been erased is made of Spiritual matter at that specific moment in time.
 
I agree with the CRT. Shunsui is standing next to Aizen and coming from behind the chair after carrying him to the battlefield. Shunsui is not been affected by Aizen's EE.




But perhaps this part specifically needs to be reworded instead of been removed from Aizen’s profile. Yamamoto’s Bankai and the Kido Haien have EE and Mayuri said nothing in Soul Society can kill Aizen. In the novels, is also implied that after Yhwach absorbed Aizen he regenerated from “nothing” in another different company barracks days later. We know Aizen regeneration is instant, so the delay could had been because of Yhwach’s Almighty power null. We don’t have clear explanations of the events, as in statements, but it’s how is presented.

I disagree with you there. On the chair part. It's stated that the chair is his restraint and that it's kept along his body by the one who designed it Mayuri. That explains why Shunsui isn't affected by Aizen's EE.
 
In this specific scenario, Aizen wanted to destroy the town in Earth but the Soul Reapers teleported the town and all the people to the Soul World and obviously converted everything into Soul Matter (Reishi) as Kishi (Matter) cannot simply enter Soul Society without been converted. That staff been erased is made of Spiritual matter at that specific moment in time.
Still was going to erase the town before it was teleported and converted to spiritual matter
 
Still was going to erase the town before it was teleported and converted to spiritual matter
That shouldn't be assumed to be the same thing we're discussing in this thread. We don't know precisely what the mechanics of creating the Oken are.
 
In this specific scenario, Aizen wanted to destroy the town in Earth but the Soul Reapers teleported the town and all the people to the Soul World and obviously converted everything into Soul Matter (Reishi) as Kishi (Matter) cannot simply enter Soul Society without been converted. That staff been erased is made of Spiritual matter at that specific moment in time.
Was Don Kanonji & his staff being erased before or after the town was teleported & converted? Were Don & his Staff Spiritual Matter when being partially erased by Aizen?
 
Was Don Kanonji & his staff being erased before or after the town was teleported & converted? Were Don & his Staff Spiritual Matter when being partially erased by Aizen?
all things in bleach have spiritual matter, even things that are from the universe of the living, like water or even a rock

so everything is kinda spiritual
 
all things in bleach have spiritual matter, even things that are from the universe of the living, like water or even a rock

so everything is kinda spiritual
So at the time, his staff was part spiritual matter & part non-spiritual matter? & this was true even if he wasn't in the spirit world?

Also, why teleport & convert the town if Aizen could erase it regardless?
 
So at the time, his staff was part spiritual matter & part non-spiritual matter? & this was true even if he wasn't in the spirit world?

Also, why teleport & convert the town if Aizen could erase it regardless?
kinda, all things in the universe of the living is made of both kishi and reishi (normal matter and spiritual matter)

things on the SS are just made of Reishi, which is just matter for spirits, that would be about the only difference of the 2

They teleported the whole town and put a fake one cus they wanted to trap aizen and his forces inside it and to be able to freely fight, if they fought on the real one there would be too many casualties
 
Is ''any human who comes into contact with me will cease to exist" the only justification for his Existence Erasure? Because that itself does not imply they'd be erased.
 
Is ''any human who comes into contact with me will cease to exist" the only justification for his Existence Erasure? Because that itself does not imply they'd be erased.
there's actually more like things being erased completely around him. like the whole physical rod that disintegrated + someones fingers when they tried to touch him
 
Is ''any human who comes into contact with me will cease to exist" the only justification for his Existence Erasure? Because that itself does not imply they'd be erased.
Interesting. At that point that guy was not even a human, but a soul. He was teleported with the town to SS.
 
Why do so many people still refer Souls in Bleach as Spirits? A minor nitpick but they are still all souls, every Object has a soul, The air,Water,Ground,Humans,Shinigami.
Idk if we define Spirit and Soul Differently on here but a lot of Religions separate the two.
So is Spirit=Soul on vswiki?
 
Is ''any human who comes into contact with me will cease to exist" the only justification for his Existence Erasure? Because that itself does not imply they'd be erased.
is "any soul" humans on that panel are souls, shinigami are human souls, hollows are a composition of human souls etc.

also the many statements of erasing leaving no trace behind
 
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