Bleach's Greatest Fanfic

[Deceived3596]

Arc definitely wasn't being aggressive Dread, he was just being direct and straight to the point with you.

Massive difference but this is derailing so i'll stop.

Also @Damage3245 when are you gonna respond to my argument?

 

[Damage3245]

Also @Damage3245 when are you gonna respond to my argument?

From what I've seen, your argument is the "equal interpretation argument"? Unless I've missed some other post.

 

[Deceived3596]

From what I've seen, your argument is the "equal interpretation argument"? Unless I've missed some other post.

My argument is that since both claims are based around mostly assumptions and somewhat equal interpretations, you shouldn't be so gungho about completely disagreeing with these characters gaining a "Possibly" or "Likely" rating for EE resistance since Arc's and Arcker's interpretation of the scans can also be correct given this is how interpretation-based claims follow.

I explain my point more in-depthly in the post i've linked.

 

[Damage3245]

At the moment I don't think the interpretations are entirely equal. I'll wait to see more arguments from Arc7Kuroi before continuing, as I know he is writing a response.

 

[Deceived3596]

At the moment I don't think the interpretations are entirely equal. I'll wait to see more arguments from Arc7Kuroi before continuing, as I know he is writing a response.

They don't need to be entirely equal for them to be possibly both true.

This doesn't counter what i'm arguing in any way, and actually directly contradicts interpretation-based claims fundamentally/the definition of the "Possibly" rating set by VSBW itself.

 

[AKM sama]

Some interpretations inherently require more backing. It doesn't have to be more than the bare minimum interpretation if it's not breaking anything. We always tend to go with the lower interpretation by default. That's how VSBW works.

Slapping a possibly on everything that's up to interpretation is not how VSBW works.

 

[AKUTO123]

No, actually, this is false. You need proof of their resistance. Why do you think EE works on higher spiritual pressure? Don't you remember what Aizen said before?
If someone is weaker than him and can't sense the spiritual pressure, the body won't withdraw from this. He literally said “weaker than him”. It is never said everyone in his range won't withdraw under his enormous spirtual pressure.

No, why is everyone ignoring the fact that Aizen himself said “only weaker than him or the being that can't withdraw his spiritual pressure”?
He explicitly said “weaker than him”. He was well aware that being higher than him won't even affect him.

ee is already a durability negation by its nature and is not dependent on AP. Of course, no one needs to prove that an ee is not dependent on AP. What you say is such an absurd argument as to how can we know that 2A can control someone's destiny, has 2A ever controlled someone's destiny?

 

[Deceived3596]

Some interpretations inherently require more backing. It doesn't have to be more than the bare minimum interpretation if it's not breaking anything. We always tend to go with the lower interpretation by default. That's how VSBW works.

It definitely isn't a "bare minimum" interpretation that's being argued by Arc and Arcker, so that argument isn't useful within this situation.

I know we always usually go with the lower interpretation by default but given the existence of Arc's and Arcker's arguments this definitely isn't the case were you can hand wave away their interpretations with this type of argument.

Slapping a possibly on everything that's up to interpretation is not how VSBW works.

There's enough evidence/argumentation that has been provided by Arc and Arcker to fulfill the burden for at least a "Possibly" or "Likely" rating.

Neither you or Damage has debunked that, not even within this post.

My point still stands.

 

[LordGinSama]

Agree 100% with Deceived here.


Not really sure how you can argue on one interpretation having more backing than the others whenever the interpretation that you support is also based on a multitude of assumptions.

 

[AKUTO123]

The point of view on ee in this thread completely surprises me. basically there is no obligation to prove that an ee works against the stronger ones. If we say that aizen is connected to reiatsu because he does this with reiatsu, then we definitely need to give it to other characters. It is necessary to give this ability to all characters with a reiatsu of more than 50000, if ee is entirely due to the height of reiatsu, but in an environment where other characters do not have this and it is clearly shown that it is a special ability for aizen, I think it is a feature of aizen's reiatsu, just like toshiro's reiatsu is cold and It shows that it is a reiatsu trait that has evolved rather than the power of reiatsu, like grandma's ice cream in manga anime and novel because it's not even mentioned in anyone with the same or higher reiatsu.

 

[AKM sama]

Well, given that I think the arguments against the OP are far more compelling and make more logical sense I disagree with this being such a case.

It's pretty clear that Aizen's EE is tied with his spiritual pressure, and it's pretty clear that the effects of spiritual pressure can be negated depending on the magnitude. At least to me.

If everything boiled down to disagreeing with one's interpretation, all we'd have would be possibly ratings on the wiki because almost everybody disagrees with one thing or another and there's always one or more reasons for disagreement.

 

[AKUTO123]

I think of this more as a reiatsu trait. Toshiro's reiatsu is cold. It is most logical to think that the ee of Yamamoto is also a feature of his reiatsu, which changes thanks to the hougyoku, because despite being at the same reiatsu level, no one has the ee.

 

[Arcker123]

Well, given that I think the arguments against the OP are far more compelling and make more logical sense I disagree with this being such a case.

#Real

It's pretty clear that Aizen's EE is tied with his spiritual pressure, and it's pretty clear that the effects of spiritual pressure can be negated depending on the magnitude. At least to me.

This has been argued how many times? I don’t see how this is a response to mine or @Arc7Kuroi arguments against this point. Just repeating you agree with it doesn’t help anyone, and as Deceived stated, just comes off as hand-wavy.

If everything boiled down to disagreeing with one's interpretation, all we'd have would be possibly ratings on the wiki because almost everybody disagrees with one thing or another and there's always one or more reasons for disagreement.

If both sides have sufficient argumentation for their beliefs, then a possibly is warranted. This is just a strawman that doesn’t adress what Deceived said.

 

[Damage3245]

I think of this more as a reiatsu trait. Toshiro's reiatsu is cold. It is most logical to think that the ee of Yamamoto is also a feature of his reiatsu, which changes thanks to the hougyoku, because despite being at the same reiatsu level, no one has the ee.

Nobody else at the same level, such as Ichgio or Yhwach, spends their time in point-blank proximity to fodder characters who they have the intent to kill. They've never had the chance to show off such an ability.

Is there anything else that makes you think it is a trait unique to Aizen's Reiatsu or a product of the Hogyoku?

 

[AKUTO123]

Nobody else at the same level, such as Ichgio or Yhwach, spends their time in point-blank proximity to fodder characters who they have the intent to kill. They've never had the chance to show off such an ability.

Is there anything else that makes you think it is a trait unique to Aizen's Reiatsu or a product of the Hogyoku?

Although they touched Ichigo in the scene where the quincy girls attacked Ichigo, they were not deleted.

 

[AKUTO123]

It would be quite natural for hougyoku to gain ee in this way via reiatsu, which is also known to give aizene new abilities in every evolution.

 

[Deceived3596]

Well, given that I think the arguments against the OP are far more compelling and make more logical sense I disagree with this being such a case.

Definitely can't prove the "far more compelling" part of this statement, that's just personal biases, and while you can believe the arguments made in opposition to the OP are better it doesn't debunk the interpretations set by the OP.

It's pretty clear that Aizen's EE is tied with his spiritual pressure, and it's pretty clear that the effects of spiritual pressure can be negated depending on the magnitude. At least to me.

Again, these are interpretations of the scenes, not concrete statements made by the author, especially the "effects of spiritual pressure can be negated depending on the magnitude" part.

This doesn't inherently debunk neither Arc or Arcker's interpretations at all, since this doesn't prove your interpretations are far greater than theirs to the point of completely disagree with a "Possibly" or "Likely" rating.

If everything boiled down to disagreeing with one's interpretation, all we'd have would be possibly ratings on the wiki because almost everybody disagrees with one thing or another and there's always one or more reasons for disagreement.

AKM i need to you stop strawmanning my position and actually read what i'm typing.

I'm not making that argument, my argument is that both Arc and Arcker have provided enough argumentation/evidence of their interpretations to the point of being able to qualify for at least a "Possibly" rating, that's it, you're arguing like neither Arc or Arcker have been providing somewhat equal interpretations to the interpretation-based claims being made by Damage and you.

 

[Damage3245]

Although they touched Ichigo in the scene where the quincy girls attacked Ichigo, they were not deleted.

Ichigo was not going all-out at that time. And he pretty clearly did not want to kill them since he warned Candice about the Getsuga Tensho attack heading her way and told her to dodge.

 

[AKM sama]

I'm not making that argument, my argument is that both Arc and Arcker have provided enough argumentation/evidence of their interpretations to the point of being able to qualify for at least a "Possibly" rating

And I disagree that what they have provided is compelling enough that trumps or stands equally with the other interpretation. I think the other interpretation is:
1. More logical considering the statements and showings we have.
2. Baseline interpretation where it doesn't have to be more than it is without good reason.

For the other interpretation to stand as its equal, it requires more direct proof. Unless that happens, the interpretation that is lower and is more supported, automatically trumps any other.

You need to understand that just having arguments for an interpretation doesn't make it valid grounds to give possibly rating, otherwise again, every rating on our wiki would be like that because every CRT is filled with reasons and arguments for why people disagree with this and that.

 

[Damage3245]

O ponto sobre o tipo de reiatsu de yamma originando seu EE é interessante, é só que é meio complicado demonstrar isso para Aizen já que temos pouca demonstração de seus poderes brutos antes de Hougyoku, mas de qualquer forma a principal divergência seria se o EE de Aizen é ou não limitado e, portanto, se Ichigo ou yhwach resistiriam a EE por contatá-lo diretamente

Please use English.

 

[ImmortalDread]

O ponto sobre o tipo de reiatsu de yamma originando seu EE é interessante, é só que é meio complicado demonstrar isso para Aizen já que temos pouca demonstração de seus poderes brutos antes de Hougyoku, mas de qualquer forma a principal divergência seria se o EE de Aizen é ou não limitado e, portanto, se Ichigo ou yhwach resistiriam a EE por contatá-lo diretamente

English version:

The point about yamma's reiatsu type originating his EE is interesting, it's just that it's kind of tricky to demonstrate this for Aizen since we have little demonstration of his raw powers before Hougyoku, but anyway the main disagreement would be whether or not Aizen's EE is limited and therefore whether or not Ichigo or yhwach would resist EE by contacting him directly

By google DeepL translator (for people who are lazy to translate)

 

[Malekith]

The point about the type of yamma's reiatsu originating his EE is interesting, it's just that it's kind of complicated to demonstrate this to Aizen as we have little demonstration of his raw powers before Hougyoku, but anyway the main divergence would be whether Aizen's EE is or not limited and therefore whether Ichigo or yhwach would resist EE for contacting him directly.

I copied the wrong text, sorry

 

[AKUTO123]

Ichigo was not going all-out at that time. And he pretty clearly did not want to kill them since he warned Candice about the Getsuga Tensho attack heading her way and told her to dodge.

We also have the example of hikone, but the same way reshikone 3rd transformation is based on scaling as aizen reiatsu, and I am sure that people who are much, much weaker than themselves touch it and are not deleted.

 

[Arcker123]

Ichigo was not going all-out at that time.

Low key conceding holding back = anti feat rendered moot? Pog

I think the other interpretation is:
1. More logical considering the statements and showings we have.
2. Baseline interpretation where it doesn't have to be more than it is without good reason.

You can’t defend this. All you are doing is repeating a bunch of claims. Despite the fact this and all the other evidence has all been debated and responded to. You’re also just not responding to the actual argument, which is that we’ve provided enough argumentation for a possibly. You have your opinion, a bunch of other people agree with ours. A possibly is perfectly fair, this is stonewalling.

For the other interpretation to stand as its equal, it requires more direct proof. Unless that happens, the interpretation that is lower and is more supported, automatically trumps any other.

Literally why is this true? Your interpretation makes the positive claim that a weakness exists. This just seems like burden shifting. The burden of proof is on y’all to prove a weakness, this entails your interpretation needs more evidence. Also again, just baselessly repeating “I have more evidence” without justification.?

 

[Deceived3596]

And I disagree that what they have provided is compelling enough that trumps the other interpretation. I think the other interpretation is:
1. More logical considering the statements and showings we have.
2. Baseline interpretation where it doesn't have to be more than it is without good reason.

AKM you either are not reading what i'm typing/misread what i type'd or you're being dishonest (i'm just gonna believe you misunderstood what i'm saying)

My argument isn't saying that Arc and Arcker have made more compelling arguments with better interpretations, my argument is that both interpretations are extremely close to each other in likelihood, hence they should qualify for an "Possibly" rating since those interpretations can also be true, and have a high likelihood of being true, similar to how it's a high likelihood that the arguments laid out by you and Damage can be true.

Also can stop saying this "baseline interpretation" stuff, what Arc and Arcker are arguing is definitely not baseline interpretation, that's just being extremely hand wavy against their arguments.

For the other interpretation to stand as its equal, it requires more direct proof. Unless that happens, the interpretation that is lower and is more supported, automatically trumps any other

That statement is objectively not true, one interpretation can have more evidence going for it, it doesn't automatically trump the interpretation with less evidence going for it, similar how an argument with more evidence for it doesn't automatically trump the argument with less evidence going for it.

This statement contradicts everything about logical thought, and also actively contradicts the rating system set by VSBW itself.

AKM it just seems you misunderstand how interpretation-based claims work/how interpretations of things interact with corresponding counter interpretations.

 

[AKM sama]

It's better to let Arc make a response since it's already in the work, than have this debate. If I see a compelling argument, maybe I'll change my mind. If not, then I'll state otherwise.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Ichigo was not going all-out at that time. And he pretty clearly did not want to kill them since he warned Candice about the Getsuga Tensho attack heading her way and told her to dodge.

Based

My response won’t come out to later tonight, finishing up the moving process irl

 

[Deceived3596]

It's better to let Arc make a response since it's already in the work, than have this debate. If I see a compelling argument, maybe I'll change my mind. If not, then I'll state otherwise.

I'm fine with just waiting for Arc's arguments but tlyk if you don't respond against my arguments then you're inherently conceding the argument via burden of rejoinder .

 

[AKM sama]

I'll respond to you once the actual argumentation is over, or maybe in my later comments.

 

[Axxtentacle]

I mean, you can say that AKM and Damage's points were responded to all you like, but if they don't find those responses to be convincing/find them to be inadequate at debunking the thing they're arguing based off the scans they're talking about then they really don't have to concede to you.

It'd be more productive to not say "you're making a baseless claim" (when he's really not, AKM's arguing his interpretation of the text and if that's baseless, this entire CRT is baseless) or "I responded to this" and instead actually debunk it, or actually try and convince them of your argument.

Telling someone that they're wrong is not enough to get people to believe they're wrong, you have to show it to them, and they don't believe you've made any argument convincing enough/solid enough to concede.

This post in only in response to the last few comments, nothing before it.

 

[AKUTO123]

We know that hougyoku gives aizen new abilities in evolutions. Aizen's space-time bending kurohitsugi is an example. Aizen's ability to destroy kotatsu, being immortal, teleporting are all abilities gained by aizeni hougyoku. because hey man basically no one has shown that he has a touch based ee other than aizen characters who show ee ability stronger than aizen but whose ee ability we haven't seen:zaraki,hikone Ichigo, yhwach . If this is a power-based talent, it should be mentioned that it should be shown at least once in my friends. but the only person we see this ability is aizen, which is enough to prove that it is a skill given by hougyoku as a result of hougyoku evolution. I think this is the most logical inference, if there is a result that you think is more logical, please write it.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I'm honestly neutral. I'm trying to keep myself out of revisions like these for a while, so i don't have much thoughts regarding this topic, sorry.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

First things first, y'all mrks for making me scroll through this goonery to get back up to the arguments. Second things second, Cortana huh @AKM sama ? Interesting choice. On to the actual argumentation lol.

I wouldn't put much stock in a databook when Yammy clearly says "if your soul wasn't sucked out by my Gonzui, then it must be stronger than I thought". There are literally no two ways about interpreting it. Yammy states a fact and then tells us the reason. As it stands, the databooks usage of the word "indiscriminately" is in direct contradiction since there is discrimination on the basis of soul strength.

There is not a discrimination on the basis of your AP or strength of your soul at all. Strong, like most words, has more than one meaning. And Yammy doesn't have to be referring to Tatsuki's AP strength in this instance at all, in fact it makes no sense for Yammy to think she's AP strong. Strong in this context can refer to her displayed resistance, what we are actually shown, hax and abilities are referred to as strengths and powers in Bleach and fiction in general. Objectively you cannot assert that Yammy was talking about Tatsuki's AP strength when he called her soul strong. So, yes there is more than one way of interpreting that scene. In fact, my interpretation is backed by the databook scans, where yours asserts it must be interpreted in a way to contradict the databooks, making my interpretation just objectively better than yours.

Did you link the right scan because I don't see a mention of "elbow's distance" there? Or maybe my eyes are having a bad day. But I think the following statement seems to imply that his EE is directly linked to his spiritual pressure, it's the same aura.
"Such gross carelessness. These restraints do not eliminate my spiritual pressure. They only keep it near me. I don't have to tell you what will happen if you try to touch me."

Ah **** I did link the wrong scan... here is the correct scan. As you can see, it is within roughly an elbows distance. Furthermore, spiritual pressure (reiatsu) is simply a phrase used to describe someone's spiritual powers in use. For example, a measure of a character's spiritual pressure is a measure of their AP. Spiritual pressure is not however, an exclusive term used to refer to your reiatsu crush aura. Your assessment of the quoted phrase doesn't imply that Aizen's EE is linked to his reiatsu crush aura at all. In fact had Aizen's spiritual pressure been eliminated he wouldn't be able to use any hax, kido, etc etc etc. Those scans are referencing the fact that Mayuri could only keep Aizen's auras near his body and not weaken him at all.

The "indiscriminate" part seemingly refers to just how Gonzui targets victims (which is to say, Yammy doesn't target it at all but just uses it on everyone nearby). That means that Tatsuki was targeted by it, just like everyone else, but the only reason why she didn't have her soul sucked out was because her soul was strong enough as Yammy himself says.

We have a direct statement on it from Yammy, so that is good enough for me.

Again refer to my response to AKM. Having a strong spirit does not inherently refer to Tatsuki's AP. Furthermore, this doesn't address this part of my argument:

first it mentions that the weaker the soul, the poorer the taste, this inherently means that it is possible to inhale strong souls, as the very mention of a taste gradient correlated to soul power objectively means stronger better tasting souls can be affected by Gonzui.

This portion of the databook supports my interpretation that Gonzui doesn't have some AP restriction.

AKM already provided the scan up above, but Aizen's EE is connect to his Reiatsu. It isn't a completely different ability that he developed solely out of a connection to the Hogyoku. There is nothing indicating that this is the case.

Every ability in Bleach is connected to reiatsu. Kisuke firing a kido is connected to reiatsu, Ichigo firing a Getsuga is connected to his reiatsu. Any ability or attack (excluding Fragor since that's explicitly stated to be made of reishi) is connected to Aizen's reiatsu. Being connected to reiatsu does not mean it is connected to his reiatsu crush aura whatsoever.

In the "I don't need to remind you what will happen if you get close" line, I think he's speaking generally not specifically just to Shunsui. Aizen saying Shunsui's name is the beginning of a new stence that carries on to the next page.

But the argument was never "Aizen's EE is restricted exclusively to humans". That wouldn't make a lot of sense and it is already acknowledged that Aizen partially erased a random Shinigami during the War arc.

Considering Aizen is speaking directly to Shunsui, I believe Shunsui is included in that warning. Although, you conceding that the ability is generally applicable would support my and OP's conclusion. As to be generally applicable, it couldn't be restricted by conditions such as "it only works on people with low AP compared to Aizen's".

I'll concede that this part is possible, if not definitive. The fact that Gin was erased as little as he was could be because of his higher spiritual energy compared to ordinary humans, or it could be because Aizen was holding back.

I'd say the Gin stuff at best supports my argument and at worst is neutral to both arguments, but I'm fine leaving the Gin situation as neutral to equal interp.

I start up classes tomorrow, so get ready for infrequent replies

 

[Agnaa]

Arc's point about souls.

Fair point, this moves the needle to a possibly for me. I still think the "indiscriminate" databook statement sucks, but the "weaker souls taste bad" one is good.

Your assessment of the quoted phrase doesn't imply that Aizen's EE is linked to his reiatsu crush aura at all. In fact had Aizen's spiritual pressure been eliminated he wouldn't be able to use any hax, kido, etc etc etc. Those scans are referencing the fact that Mayuri could only keep Aizen's auras near his body and not weaken him at all.

This doesn't really seem to be arguing against AKM's point. "The aura is kept near me and not weakened, if you touch me you'll get EE'd" sounds like it's drawing a link between the aura and the EE.

Considering Aizen is speaking directly to Shunsui, I believe Shunsui is included in that warning. Although, you conceding that the ability is generally applicable would support my and OP's conclusion. As to be generally applicable, it couldn't be restricted by conditions such as "it only works on people with low AP compared to Aizen's".

I don't see how agreeing that it works on non-humans implies that it works on people with all levels of AP.

Arc not responding to my point about the Don scan

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

This doesn't really seem to be arguing against AKM's point. "The aura is kept near me and not weakened, if you touch me you'll get EE'd" sounds like it's drawing a link between the aura and the EE.

There’s no inherent link, if Aizen’s powers are all kept close to him, then any aura, linked or not, would be held close to him. So, this doesn’t and cannot prove they’re linked.

I don't see how agreeing that it works on non-humans implies that it works on people with all levels of AP.

If Aizen is speaking generally, and you concede he’s speaking generally, then you cannot claim he’s adding an unspoken restriction. That’s all I’m saying.

Arc not responding to my point about the Don scan

Lol oops my bad, can you bump it so I can reply to it tomorrow.

 

[Agnaa]

There’s no inherent link, if Aizen’s powers are all kept close to him, then any aura, linked or not, would be held close to him. So, this doesn’t and cannot prove they’re linked.

From the wording it doesn't sound like a general power null, it sounds like it's targeted at spiritual pressure.

If we know from other shit that it's more general than that, lemme know and I'll swap over to your interpretation of this piece of evidence.

If Aizen is speaking generally, and you concede he’s speaking generally, then you cannot claim he’s adding an unspoken restriction. That’s all I’m saying.

It's more that I don't interpret statements like "Any human who touches me will stop existing" as meaning that the ability wouldn't work on other things in the first place. It's a warning with specific wording because he's talking to a human. But someone getting erased while he says "Your spirit can't withstand my power" could be combined with a few other points of evidence for an unspoken restriction.

The former's literally 0 evidence to me, while the latter's very minor evidence that can be built off of through feats.

Lol oops my bad, can you bump it so I can reply to it tomorrow.

The important part about the Don scan is that he can temporarily withstand Aizen's other abilities without being strong enough to power null them. This demonstrates that other parts of his aura can be withstood by simply being a little strong without being strong enough to power null.

Since EE only had a valid path to a resistance due to the argument that people could only resist it through a special resistance rather than strength, as they're not strong enough to outright power null it, this argues against it; Aizen's other similar abilities were able to be withstood without a special resistance and without being far stronger.

Although now I notice that it depends on the EE being part of Aizen's aura. So uhh, tackle this or the restraints point and I'll move over to full agree.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I’ll get to it some time tomorrow, probably closer to ~24 hours lol

 

[Damage3245]

There is not a discrimination on the basis of your AP or strength of your soul at all. Strong, like most words, has more than one meaning. And Yammy doesn't have to be referring to Tatsuki's AP strength in this instance at all, in fact it makes no sense for Yammy to think she's AP strong. Strong in this context can refer to her displayed resistance, what we are actually shown, hax and abilities are referred to as strengths and powers in Bleach and fiction in general. Objectively you cannot assert that Yammy was talking about Tatsuki's AP strength when he called her soul strong. So, yes there is more than one way of interpreting that scene. In fact, my interpretation is backed by the databook scans, where yours asserts it must be interpreted in a way to contradict the databooks, making my interpretation just objectively better than yours.

I'm confused as to why Tatsuki's Attack Potency is being brought up. It feels like we're arguing about two different things again.

We mention the strength of Tatsuki's soul as being why she withstands the technique, and you take that as saying "Tatsuki only survived because she can punch with this much force".

So yes; you say "Objectively you cannot assert that Yammy was talking about Tatsuki's AP strength" but that's not what we're arguing in the first place so this is a moot point.

Ah **** I did link the wrong scan... here is the correct scan. As you can see, it is within roughly an elbows distance. Furthermore, spiritual pressure (reiatsu) is simply a phrase used to describe someone's spiritual powers in use. For example, a measure of a character's spiritual pressure is a measure of their AP. Spiritual pressure is not however, an exclusive term used to refer to your reiatsu crush aura. Your assessment of the quoted phrase doesn't imply that Aizen's EE is linked to his reiatsu crush aura at all. In fact had Aizen's spiritual pressure been eliminated he wouldn't be able to use any hax, kido, etc etc etc. Those scans are referencing the fact that Mayuri could only keep Aizen's auras near his body and not weaken him at all.

To me, it looks like they're linked. Somebody gets too close to Aizen; they get erased; Aizen tells them his spiritual pressure is not negate but just kept close to him. Makes sense to me.

This portion of the databook supports my interpretation that Gonzui doesn't have some AP restriction.

Cool, because that wasn't what was being argued.

Every ability in Bleach is connected to reiatsu. Kisuke firing a kido is connected to reiatsu, Ichigo firing a Getsuga is connected to his reiatsu. Any ability or attack (excluding Fragor since that's explicitly stated to be made of reishi) is connected to Aizen's reiatsu. Being connected to reiatsu does not mean it is connected to his reiatsu crush aura whatsoever.

I don't agree; it looks pretty clearly connected to his Reiatsu to me.

Considering Aizen is speaking directly to Shunsui, I believe Shunsui is included in that warning. Although, you conceding that the ability is generally applicable would support my and OP's conclusion. As to be generally applicable, it couldn't be restricted by conditions such as "it only works on people with low AP compared to Aizen's".

Being generally applicable to more than just humans is not the same thing as saying it has no limits.

If Aizen is speaking generally, and you concede he’s speaking generally, then you cannot claim he’s adding an unspoken restriction. That’s all I’m saying.

That makes zero sense to me. If I tell a room full of people "If you put your hand in fire then you will get burned," then Superman walks into the room, does my warning extend to him automatically too?

 

[Agnaa]

I'm confused as to why Tatsuki's Attack Potency is being brought up. It feels like we're arguing about Tao different things again. We mention the strength of Tatsuki's soul as being why she withstands the technique, and you take that as saying "Tatsuki only survived because she can punch with this much force". So yes; you say "Objectively you cannot assert that Yammy was talking about Tatsuki's AP strength" but that's not what we're arguing in the first place so this is a moot point.

If it's not correlated to AP, and is some abstract "soul strength" that has nothing to do AP that let Tatsuki survive, then that's just resistance to soul manip.

Being generally applicable to more than just humans is not the same thing as saying it has no limits.

No. I can't tell where you got that idea from in a way that'd let me respond, those are just two fundamentally unrelated statements. An ability working on things that aren't humans doesn't mean that it works on tier 0s, or even 3-As.

That makes zero sense to me. If I tell a room full of people "If you put your hand in fire then you will get burned," then Superman walks into the room, does my warning extend to him automatically too?

Bad comparison. Superman has feats against heat, and all sufficiently high-tiered characters are considered to have heat resistance feats since physical blows generate heat. But we consider EE to work on all beings whose bodies aren't qualitatively superior to 3-D space unless they show resistance.

 

[Damage3245]

@Agnaa; By no limits, I meant the bit here that says "As to be generally applicable, it couldn't be restricted by conditions such as "it only works on people with low AP compared to Aizen's".

An ability being generally applicable to more than just humans is not the same thing as it having no restrictions at all.