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Bleach: Yhwach, The Soul King and "Can't Fear Your Own World"

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AppleLord said:
You mean a feat that has absolutely nothing to do with how fast you use an ability?
Click to expand...
Yhwach show those speed feats with Almighty after absorbing Soul King.

What's left of him
 
IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
Everyone that is derailing, stop it. Stop the God of War talk, stop the hostility and discuss the scans and quotes only.
Click to expand...
Help me out here man. What do you think is a good compromise to rank Prime Soul King?
 
People that are wondering several things:

Did the Prime Soul King Make Everything in Soul Society and Hueco Mundo?
Yes!

Everything in these dimensions are made of Reishi, the Soul King made Reishi into existence as I proved in the OP.

The Soul King made everything in those dimensions then.

How Long Did it Take to Make Everything?
It could not have been long:

1) The Soul King made things before being sealed in the crystal.

2) The Soul King can't act in the crystal as shown in the manga.

3) The Soul King had to have been sealed into the crystal immediately after making the worlds otherwise the worlds would just remerge together. It had to have all been done quickly.

4) The Soul King made it all with his Almighty. The Almighty acts instantly as shown by Yhwach.

5) Yhwach is the Soul King's son, why would the more powerful Soul King have a weaker Almighty?
 
IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
It does, I'll explain:

1) The Soul King made things before being sealed in the crystal.

2) The Soul King can't act in the crystal as shown in the manga.

3) The Soul King had to have been sealed into the crystal immediately after making the worlds otherwise the worlds would just remerge together. It had to have all been done quickly.


As for the Almighty, Yhwach is the Soul King's son, why would the more powerful Soul King have a weaker Almighty?
Click to expand...
What? Being sealed immediately after making the worlds is one thing, but saying this means that the worlds were created all at once in the same timeframe is a completely different story. Speaking hypothetically, the SK could have made the worlds as fast as a minute to as long as a 1000 years and it wouldnt change why he would need to be sealed away quickly.

The sealing argument only means the SK was bounded and disfigured as soon as the worlds where fully created. That doesnt mean the SK created them as fast as your trying to imply they were.

And being the SK's son doesnt mean the SK can use the Almighty as fast as Yhwach can. Creating the worlds only means its far far far more powerful than Yhwach's Almighty. More powerful =/= faster.
 
You mean a feat that has absolutely nothing to do with how fast you use an ability?
Yhwach show those speed feats with Almighty after absorbing Soul King.

What's left of him

Soul King's body still has his eyes (four pupils instead of Yhwach's three pupils) and was said to still see the future by Yhwach and royal squad mentioned that SK already knew of Ichigo's existence and what's fascinated by him. (How he communicated this to them is unknown.)
 
Looks solid.

I agree.

I'm assuming that merging three worlds is 5-A, so I believe the tiering should go something like this:

"Prime Soul King: At least 5-A (far stronger than weakended self), likely 4-C (made at least 1 star), possibly higher (made 3 worlds and 2 moons along with the planet).

Weakened Soul King (And those who scale): 5-A (The three worlds colliding feat)."
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
Everyone that is derailing, stop it. Stop the God of War talk, stop the hostility and discuss the scans and quotes only.
Click to expand...
Help me out here man. What do you think is a good compromise to rank Prime Soul King?
Click to expand...
I think he did make everything in the dimensions, Matt, since he made Reishi and everything in those dimensions are made of Reishi.

The timeframe isn't given, but as I explain here it couldn't have been long, it would have been done fast.

We have 3-C profiles for making galaxies despite no timeframes as well.


I think the Soul King should be what Cal Howard said above: I'd say more 4-A than 3-C tho.

He's at least 4-A since Tosen showed in Bleach that Soul Society has a Starry Sky.

It's possible that Gremmy's Galaxy Room could've been a portal to the real Galaxy of Earth, his power is imagination. But Soul Society at least has a starry sky.
 
1- The Soul Society has stars and galaxies.

2- The Human World has also been shown to have stars and galaxies.

3 - Arenasilver has shown a Scan which shows that it does not take time, so this is no longer something that needs to be discussed more (Probably)
 
>Use Almighty as fast as Yhwach

I'm sorry what? What does it matter how fast he can use The Almighty. All that matters is that The Almighty functions like normal, which we have no evidence to say otherwise. Since it does everything immediately, the Soul King did everything immediately since it was The Almighty that was used to create the Bleach cosmology.
 
AppleLord said:
Which are feats for Yhwach, not the SK.
Click to expand...
Using someone's else power that he stole/absorbed. ;)

Thats not how absorption works. Just because the new form is using the absorbed persons power to do a speed feat, doesnt mean the absorbed individual is capable of doing the same thing. The feat only applies to the user who absorbed them and can use their powers to that extent.
 
Well Kukui is wrong, he's basing his assumption that the planets don't remerge after being made which is literally against the lore and what we see.
 
IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
@Kukui
Pay attention, please.

It could not be 100 years, the planets remerge immediately if the lynchpin is not sealed.

It had to be quickly since the worlds will just remerge.
Click to expand...
And if say the SK is in the middle of creating them? What evidence proves the worlds would re-emerge even if the SK was in the middle of separating and creating them?

Just because they would remerge if the lynchpin isnt sealed doesnt mean they would remerge so long as the SK is actively going through the process of separating them, and not just doing nothing about it.

Your implying that even if the SK took his time and separated the worlds slowly, they would just remerge again until he's sealed. Not only do I not see any evidence for this, this ultimately doesnt make sense. The worlds would be under the SK's control, why would they suddenly remerge whether he seperates them instantly or over a slowed prelonged timeframe?
 
The creation of the worlds is obviously legitimate (SS, HM and the world of the living and what's connected to them) but it's like people forget that the universe merely resides in the garganta. The garganta is many times bigger than the universe. Garganta is the space beyond space.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
@Kukui
Pay attention, please.

It could not be 100 years, the planets remerge immediately if the lynchpin is not sealed.

It had to be quickly since the worlds will just remerge.
Click to expand...
And if say the SK is in the middle of creating them? What evidence proves the worlds would re-emerge even if the SK was in the middle of separating and creating them?
Just because they would remerge if the lynchpin isnt sealed doesnt mean they would remerge so long as the SK is actively going through the process of separating them, and not just doing nothing about it.

Your implying that even if the SK took his time and separated the worlds slowly, they would just remerge again until he's sealed. Not only do I not see any evidence for this, this ultimately doesnt make sense. The worlds would be under the SK's control, why would they suddenly remerge whether he seperates them instantly or over a slowed prelonged timeframe?
Click to expand...
Lolwut
 
AnonymousBlank said:
>Use Almighty as fast as Yhwach
I'm sorry what? What does it matter how fast he can use The Almighty. All that matters is that The Almighty functions like normal, which we have no evidence to say otherwise. Since it does everything immediately, the Soul King did everything immediately since it was The Almighty that was used to create the Bleach cosmology.
Click to expand...
Because feats matter for a reason.

Yhwach using the Almighty to [insert here] quickly doesnt neccessarily mean the SK can use the Almighty exactly the same way at the exact same speeds. The only thing we know for sure is that the SK's Almighty is simply insanely stronger than Yhwachs is.
 
Also I mean no offense but...

"Everything in these dimensions are made of Reishi, the Soul King made Reishi into existence as I proved in the OP.

The Soul King made everything in those dimensions then."

This reads like a ad hoc post hoc falacy, or a causation fallacy.

Yes, Reishi first formed when the Soul King killed the first Hollow. But this does not mean that everything and everyone made out of Reishi is his direct creation. For one, the amount of Reishi could have increased over time, and likewise the Reishi could have spread over the dimension and gathered itself into stars over astronomical amounts of time, similarly to how it happened in the real world.

There is nothing that forces the Soul to have made any of this instantaneously.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
And if say the SK is in the middle of creating them? What evidence proves the worlds would re-emerge even if the SK was in the middle of separating and creating them?
Click to expand...
Because you need the sealed lynchpin to stop them from remerging. This is what we're shown.

Just because they would remerge if the lynchpin isnt sealed doesnt mean they would remerge so long as the SK is actively going through the process of separating them, and not just doing nothing about it. Your implying that even if the SK took his time and separated the worlds slowly, they would just remerge again until he's sealed. Not only do I not see any evidence for this, this ultimately doesnt make sense. The worlds would be under the SK's control, why would they suddenly remerge whether he seperates them instantly or over a slowed prelonged timeframe?
The Soul King is the lynchpin, he needs to be sealed into the crystal to stop the remerging.

Why do you think they even made the crystal seal?

If the crystal wasn't needed why would the Soul King be sealed?

You're still ignoring that the Almighty was used to make everything and the Almighty is instant.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Also I mean no offense but...
"Everything in these dimensions are made of Reishi, the Soul King made Reishi into existence as I proved in the OP.

The Soul King made everything in those dimensions then."

This reads like a ad hoc post hoc falacy, or a causation fallacy.

Yes, Reishi first formed when the Soul King killed the first Hollow. But this does not mean that everything and everyone made out of Reishi is his direct creation.
Click to expand...
Yes it does, the quote literally says the Soul King made Reishi. The Soul King turned the body of the giant Hollow into Reishi. The Soul King is the creator and source of Reishi.
 
Matthew Schroeder wrote

We are talking about the feat of Soul King, so what I said has relevance, Soul Society has galaxies, so it's normal to say that this was a 3-C feat.
 
Not my point. The inventor of the automobile is not the creator of every car in existence. Just because the Soul King made Reishi doesn't mean that everything composed of or with Reishi directly tied to him.
 
False Equivalency Mathew. The context given to us by the Novel heavily implies that the Rei-O is responsible for all the Reishi in Existence throughout the Realms. Anyway I fully agree with Imade as hes our most knowledgeable member regarding Bleach.
 
Nobody accepted anything about galaxies either in fact the creation never brings anything beyond the three worlds and a few other places. It's astounding how much of this thread is based around an assumption.
 
A refresher for those just jumpin in the thread or for those wishing to catch up:

The crux of the discussion is two things:

1) The tier of the Prime Soul King that no one scales.

2) The Tier of the Weakened Soul King that Yhwach, Mimihagi, Ichigo and Aizen scale to.

What is the Soul King's Tier?
This is what we're discussing at the moment as it's a matter of contention.

For starters:

People that are wondering several things:

Did the Prime Soul King Make Everything in Soul Society and Hueco Mundo?
Yes!

Everything in these dimensions are made of Reishi, the Soul King made Reishi into existence as I proved in the OP. He is the source of all Reishi as he created it by transmuting a dead Hollow into Reishi.

The Soul King made everything in those dimensions then.

How Long Did it Take to Make Everything?
It could not have been long:

1) The Soul King made things before being sealed in the crystal as shown in the quotes above.

2) The Soul King can't act in the crystal as shown in the manga.

3) The Soul King had to have been sealed into the crystal immediately after making the worlds otherwise the worlds would just remerge together. It had to have all been done quickly before the worlds just remerge. The Soul King is the lynchpin, he needs to be sealed into the crystal to stop the remerging.

Why do you think they even made the crystal seal?

If the crystal wasn't needed why would the Soul King be sealed if he could walk around holding the worlds back from remerging? This literally goes against lore.

4) The Soul King made it all with his Almighty. The Almighty acts instantly as shown by Yhwach.

5) Yhwach is the Soul King's son, why would the more powerful Soul King have a weaker Almighty? They're both Almighty, no reason to assume two of the same abilities are different, and at least the Soul King is more powerful than Yhwach, so logically his Almighty should be better.


Also we have 3-C profiles for making galaxies despite no timeframes as well.

What is the Weakened Soul King's Tier?
Whatever is the tier for holding back 3 worlds from colliding and moving 3 worlds back from colliding. It's at least 5-B though, could be calced to be higher.
 
@Kukui

Yes, feats matter. Based on feats, everything The Almighty does is instant. So why are you claiming that the SK's Almighty doesn't work like Yhwach's?

You seem to be confusing the act of using it and how it actually functions. If we both have D.Eagles and you can pull the trigger to it faster than I can, does that make the bullet I fired slower? If you want to say that someone more powerful than Yhwach in every way can't use the same ability to the same extent, please provide proof of such.
 
>Because you need the sealed lynchpin to stop them from remerging. This is what we're shown.

Yes, and again, that still doesnt mean the worlds would automatically be re-merged together again while the SK is controlling them to separate and create them in the first place.

Thats basically saying that unless the SK does it immediately, he cannot manipulate and maintain control over the worlds at all whatsoever, which is ridiculous.

>The Soul King is the lynchpin, he needs to be sealed into the crystal to stop the remerging.

See above.

>If the crystal wasn't needed why would the Soul King be sealed?

Your twisting things up here. The SK would still need to be sealed because if he isnt, the worlds would just fuse back together again. So him still needing to be sealed is definite.

But what I dont agree with is that even if the SK was slowly separating the worlds from each other, they would automatically re-merge even when they are under his control, which makes no sense and we have 0 evidence to support this notion.

Treat this like a sling-shot for example. If I have one hand hold the slingshot itself, and I use my other hand to stretch out the rope in another direction, the sling-shot will not just suddenly come loose and fire on its own while im pulling it. My hand is still maintaining control over it because im pulling it, so it will only come unloose when I want it to. This is pretty much the same with the SK and the worlds.

The worlds will not just suddenly re-merge while the SK has control over and is separating them. They would only re-merge when he is done fully creating them, but is not sealed into the crystal yet to stop their re-merging. Saying the worlds will automatically re-merge whether the SK is slowly separating them apart or whatnot has no basis and is also self admitting that the SK cannot even control them otherwise to begin with (which I obviously vehemently disagree with).
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Not my point. The inventor of the automobile is not the creator of every car in existence. Just because the Soul King made Reishi doesn't mean that everything composed of or with Reishi directly tied to him.
Click to expand...
This isn't what were arguing lol, he created the dimension and eveything in it at the start was his creation. You have no proof of anything you are saying.
 
The Prince of Counters said:
False Equivalency Mathew. The context given to us by the Novel heavily implies that the Rei-O is responsible for all the Reishi in Existence throughout the Realms. Anyway I fully agree with Imade as hes our most knowledgeable member regarding Bleach.
Click to expand...
No...?

All that's said is that he killed a giant and that's where Reishi comes from.
 
Going by that same logic, I guess we should give the Ten-Tails/Shinju the ability to perform the Edo Tensei, use Susanoo, the Reaper Death Seal, the Flying Thunder God, and all the Kekkei Genkai-exclusive abilities as well, since it is the source of all chakra in Naruto, and those techniques utilize chakra.
 
Calm your **** Sigurd. If we are to talk about proof he made the stars as it is never mentioned anywhere. And that the Reishi created by him killing the Hollow = every Reishi ever.
 
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