Bleach: Yhwach, The Soul King and "Can't Fear Your Own World"

[KazuiK]

I really do not understand, why only 4-C when it was stated to do much more than that?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Nobody is 3-A here Qaw that's like the most direct point I'm the whole OP. The thing he argued for the most was 4-C

I wrote 3-A instead of the intended 3-C. I edited my comment as soon as I noticed it.

 

[ShivaShakti]

5-A to 4-C is fine for now. Reguarding higher tiers, we should probably get this on, and someone can make a later CRT if they have disagreements

 

[AppleLord]

Nobody is 3-A here Qaw that's like the most direct point I'm the whole OP. The thing he argued for the most was 4-C

OP argued for SK creating Soul Society a parallel world to the living world who contains a lot of stars in the night sky,so...

 

[KazuiK]

Could someone get my doubt?

I saw someone saying that this was a 2-C done but I do not know.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

I'm perfectly okay with a higher tiered Soul King. Also, remember that 5-A was multi planet by name alone. Holding back 3 planets may or may not be 5-A. It very well could be, but it's not for certain.

It's holding back 3 planets, colliding 3 planets together and stopping 3 planets from colliding.

The highest of these three would be the tier of the Weakened Soul King.

Soul King Yhwach would be 2 times the Weakened Soul King, Ichigo and Aizen scale to this Yhwach.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I'd say more 4-A than 3-C tho.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Pretty BS to asse that the Soul King put the worlds in dimensions entirely empty and then just made everything there with a finger snap. Despite in-universe hype he is not an all powerful god and his feats clearly took some time / work. It wasn't a "And God said, let there be light." scenario.

Also the notion that the Soul King literally telekinetically moved the stars from one universe to another at Massively FTL+ Speeds as if that's how the Three Worlds even work (They seem much more like different planes of existence than parallel universe floating in a void)...

Honestly, please tell me that's bait.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

I'd say more 4-A than 3-C tho.

I agree.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Pretty BS to asse that the Soul King put the worlds in dimensions entirely empty and then just made everything there with a finger snap.

Now I know you glossed over part of the CRT, Matthew. I explained this above.

The dimensions of Soul Society and Hueco Mundo are made of Reishi, the Soul King would have to have made the things in those dimensions since he made Reishi.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

And they are pretty much in a void.

 

[HST_Master]

Also the notion that the Soul King literally telekinetically moved the stars from one universe to another at Massively FTL+ Speeds as if that's how the Three Worlds even work (They seem much more like different planes of existence than parallel universe floating in a void)...

Honestly, please tell me that's bait.

I don't think I've seen anyone arguing this...

 

[USklaverei]

If he did not create them and did not move them, what happened then? Did they come out of nowhere?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Which is why I'm fine with Likely 4-C since we know for a fact about the sun in Soul Society.

 

[KazuiK]

@Matt

That is one of the reasons I say he has not moved anything, furthermore we do not know the size of the old world, so to say that he was able to separate these worlds has no foundation.

 

[Sekkonds.]

Fact =/= likely

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Well that wouldn't be Likely 4-C, Matthew. That's "At least 4-C".

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

There is no likely, you cannot deny this fact. everything in Soul Society was created by him and him only.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...ired_to_destroy_a_dimension_with_a_starry_sky

Since creation is equal to destruction here, he's at the bare min 4-A.

 

[USklaverei]

There are only two options for this:

1 - SK created the stars

2 - SK moved the stars

It's one or the other.

 

[M11UTD]

@IMade I know it's hard for you and you busy with all the s**tstorm happening here, but reply to my Mimihagi part when you can plz.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Likely, or just 4-C or whatever my point is I don't think we should rate him as anything more than Star level.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Seems pretty solid, Though I have only 2 problems..
First is Mimihagi, I don't think he held the worlds with his power, it was more like he used the Soul King's corpse since it was shown he was holding it, same way he was keeping Ukitake alive (Ukitake died the moment Mimihagi left him). Also he was below pre SK Yhwach who was comparable to Ichibei.

Second isn't really something big, but if the real world was accepted to be universe sized, should same be applied to Soul Society since it was stated that they are parallel to each other?

The Soul King was dead and Yoruichi confirms that Mimihagi is the one who is holding the worlds together, I posted this above.

Also, when Mimihagi died the worlds started to collide again. So he was holding them back.


Pre-SK Yhwach was not comparable to Ichibei, he one-shot Ichibei.


The last isn't true.

 

[USklaverei]

This is personal opinion, ignoring the facts shown here.

 

[KazuiK]

Only 4-C? there were galaxies in soul society, why 4-C only?

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Likely, or just 4-C or whatever my point is I don't think we should rate him as anything more than Star level.

But wouldn't it be:

At least 4-C, likely 4-A or 3-C like Cal Howard said?

It's at least 4-C and it is likely however since he did make everything in Soul Society and Hueco Mundo.

 

[Sekkonds.]

As sigured said,that star on his on is 4-A

 

[KazuiK]

This is personal opinion, ignoring the facts shown here.

I agree, although it was shown several scans people are simply ignoring.

 

[AppleLord]

Pretty BS to asse that the Soul King put the worlds in dimensions entirely empty and then just made everything there with a finger snap. Despite in-universe hype he is not an all powerful god and his feats clearly took some time / work. It wasn't a "And God said, let there be light." scenario.

Also the notion that the Soul King literally telekinetically moved the stars from one universe to another at Massively FTL+ Speeds as if that's how the Three Worlds even work (They seem much more like different planes of existence than parallel universe floating in a void)...

Honestly, please tell me that's bait.

Bruh is completely the opposite Prime Soul King did this feat by '''Almighty''' which as we saw with Yhwach's Almighty it works/ happens with the speed of a thought.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

As sigured said,that star on his on is 4-A

Starry sky, not just a star.

I knew what you were talking about but just wanted to fix this small error to not rub others the wrong way.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Evidence that he made all the stars simultaneously with a snap, like you are implying?

The Soul King lived for literally millions of years, and has plenty of time to stabilize and shape his creation. If he is 4-C, then we are assuming he can make at least one star with relative esse. Under this condition, he'd fill the skies of Soul Society with stars relatively quickly, as there are only about 8,000 stars visible in our night sky.

All that is required for the Soul King to reasonably make the stars of Soul Society is the capability to make a single star, the necessary range, and time.

So yes, I think 4-C is fine but anything beyond that is unfounded.

 

[M11UTD]

Seems pretty solid, Though I have only 2 problems..
First is Mimihagi, I don't think he held the worlds with his power, it was more like he used the Soul King's corpse since it was shown he was holding it, same way he was keeping Ukitake alive (Ukitake died the moment Mimihagi left him). Also he was below pre SK Yhwach who was comparable to Ichibei.

Second isn't really something big, but if the real world was accepted to be universe sized, should same be applied to Soul Society since it was stated that they are parallel to each other?

The Soul King was dead and Yoruichi confirms that Mimihagi is the one who is holding the worlds together, I posted this above.
Also, when Mimihagi died the worlds started to collide again. So he was holding them back.


Pre-SK Yhwach was not comparable to Ichibei, he one-shot Ichibei.


The last isn't true.

He was dead indeed but his body did have power, since we saw Yhwach absorbing it later, Mimihagi would have reason to hold the SK body. And Yhwach being kicked around by Ichibei, he won via Almighty hax not via being superior in power.

And I don't understand what you mean by "isn't true" since it was stated in the databook.

• • you can reply anytime you want later, to get clear answer, since it's not the main topic that's being discussed right now so no worry.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

There is no likely, you cannot deny this fact. everything in Soul Society was created by him and him only.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...ired_to_destroy_a_dimension_with_a_starry_sky

Since creation is equal to destruction here, he's at the bare min 4-A.

If true, this only scales to the Prime Soul King as he made the dimensions of Soul Society and Hueco Mundo and what is inside them.


Weakend Soul King only scales to being able to collide 3 worlds, and move/stop 3 worlds from colliding.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Easy, Almighty and he just thinks it's also implied Gremmy is his Brain multiple times.

There is also the fact Ichibe made no comment on it taking a vast amount of time, but he did for everything else.

 

[Ezeriot]

What's 100% sure is that the Scale of the "Soul King" (they even said the Garganta was at danger of Yhwach if they lose) was always more than what anyone said, and it still is.

 

[M11UTD]

@Matt even assuming he made them one at timr, they're still made from something he created from nothing (reishi) as OP already explained.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

That he can make a sun with mental power (Which mind you isn't mentioned in those excerpts. But rather a reasonable assumption from IMade) does not mean it doesn't take effort or time. Characters with psionic powers aren't omnipotent.

Ichibe didn't bring up it taking time because he didn't bring up the stars to begin with.

 

[KazuiK]

@Sigurd, another evidence is that he raised the Wandenreich easily and quickly.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

The Soul King lived for literally millions of years, and has plenty of time to stabilize and shape his creation.

This is not true, the Soul King made everything at once, I posted the quotes above:

In order to turn this division into a reality, what was required was the power of a man who transcended everything.

"Although the Shiba ancestor tried to talk the Tsunayashiro ancestor out of it, it is said that the Rei-o was tied up and sealed within the crystal. The rest of Soul Society's history was witnessed directly by myself."

A man who was later named the Rei-o.

Using his powers of the Almighty as the 'keystone', the five of them created the foundation of a new world. Soul Society, the Material World and Hueco Mundo. Life and death were separated. The Soul Cycle ushered in a new era.

...

"Perhaps it was because he could see the far-flung future.... Maybe he could not escape his fear; or maybe he found some hope in the new world.... I don't really understand... But the Rei-o dared not resist it."

...

"But the Tsunayashiro ancestor doubted even this non-resistance. Afraid of the Rei-o escaping from his seal by himself; he neither wanted the Rei-o to live nor did he want to kill him. Continuing this helix of contradictions, the Right Arm of 'stagnation' and the Left Arm of 'Progress' were torn off."

...

"Well; I suppose that still wasn't enough. The ancestors; including Tsunayashiro; gouged out his heart and internal organs; and dismembered both his legs. Doing so, they destroyed his power; creating a king convenient for themselves."

...

"Convenient indeed. He continues to remain the lynchpin without ever having a say in the workings of this world, while the real business is carried out by others."


The Soul King made everything upon being sealed.

After being sealed he was mutilated by the Tsunayashiro head out of fear.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

What non sequitur nonsense is this? Raising a small country casually is in no way an argument for the casualness of Tier 5 and 4 feats.

 

[Sekkonds.]

Evidence that he made all the stars simultaneously with a snap, like you are implying?

The Soul King lived for literally millions of years, and has plenty of time to stabilize and shape his creation. If he is 4-C, then we are assuming he can make at least one star with relative esse. Under this condition, he'd fill the skies of Soul Society with stars relatively quickly, as there are only about 8,000 stars visible in our night sky.

All that is required for the Soul King to reasonably make the stars of Soul Society is the capability to make a single star, the necessary range, and time.

So yes, I think 4-C is fine but anything beyond that is unfounded.

There is no timeframe for thousands of dimension creation tiers on this site smol example