• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Bleach Top Tiers Downgrade

Status
Not open for further replies.
I'm pretty sure those images linked with Ulq on top of the dome shows that Las Noches isn't the size of a small country.

I'll have to do a more detailed analysis later but look at the size of Ulq compared to the pillars, and the size of the pillars compared to Las Noches.
 
It's better to focus on the Downgrade thread and not involve future Bleach upgrade, it make the thread more confusing than he already is
 
but fair enough lets focus on gremmy i only brought up espadas cuz their weaker than the sterns so shouldnt we finish them 100% then move on to stronger characters?
 
Well if we want to fix the Arrancar scaling we still need to figure out whether or not the Gentei Kaijo 5x multiplier is usable and how big of a boost the Resurrección gives. Since I know of at least three cases that shows Bankai is a bigger power boost than Resurrección.
 
no peter its explained bankai and ress are literally almost the same the issue is figuring out what to use between 5-10 multiplier
 
nm it said almost equal
Espadas ress 4
so GRC in base could be used for large island then we do the whole ress etc to see where they end up seems simple
 
Damage3245 said:
I'm pretty sure those images linked with Ulq on top of the dome shows that Las Noches isn't the size of a small country.
I'll have to do a more detailed analysis later but look at the size of Ulq compared to the pillars, and the size of the pillars compared to Las Noches.
Click to expand...
pixel scaling that would net you close to 10km for Las Noche size. and ulquiorra Vaporizing half of Las noche roof would be H6C give or take, with pulverization it would be something like 7A+.
 
There is scaling and calcs out there that puts Las noches as larger than Califonia and scales the espada based on that

I don't know if we are going to be able to use that though
 
They really aren't.

Shawlong vs 20% Hitsugaya shows that Resurrección is less than 5x. In base he was overpowering Bankai Hitsugaya and in Resurrección he was overpowering him even more easily. But the moment Hitsugaya released Gentei Kaijo he was the one that was getting stomped.

Dordoni vs Ichigo also shows that Bankai has a greater multiplier than Resurrección as shown when Bankai Ichigo was easily overpowering Resurrección Dordoni even though Base Dordoni could overpower Shikai Ichigo.

Barragan vs Soifon also shows that Soifon was completely unable to injure Base Barragan but her Bankai was able to heavily injure Resurrección Barragan with a direct hit.

Ginjo vs Ichigo also shows that Resurrección is weaker than Bankai. Shikai Ginjo and Fullbring Shikai Ichigo were even. But when Ichigo went Fullbring Bankai he started to easily overpower Bankai Ginjo. And I think in CFYOW somebody said something about Ginjo's bankai being more like a resureccion which further implies that Bankai > Resurrección.

But yeah no more derailing let's go back on topic.
 
some put it at texas which is why i was saying but meh . ima let the post carry on but i do have a very immportant question that could end this debate
 
Can we please drop all the LN and Espada stuff rn? It has nothing to do with the topic of thus thread and we already agreed on the GD that we would handle this stuff at a later date, at least after the novels finish.
 
Peter1129 said:
They really aren't.
Shawlong vs 20% Hitsugaya shows that Resurrección is less than 5x. In base he was overpowering Bankai Hitsugaya and in Resurrección he was overpowering him even more easily. But the moment Hitsugaya released Gentei Kaijo he was the one that was getting stomped.

Ichigo vs Dordoni also shows that Bankai has a greater multiplier than Resurrección as shown when Bankai Ichigo was easily overpowering Resurrección Dordoni even though Base Dordoni could overpower Base Ichigo.

Soifon was completely unable to injure Base Barragan but her Bankai was able to heavily injure Resurrección Barragan.

Shikai Ginjo and Fullbring Shikai Ichigo were even. But when Ichigo went Fullbring Bankai he started to easily overpower Bankai Ginjo. In Can't Fear Your Own World I remember somebody saying Ginjo's bankai is actually more like a resureccion which further implies that Bankai > Resurrección.
Click to expand...
it doesnt, that if you assume reaitsu scales, it can be the same as PL a increase of 2x reaitsu by Aizen statements is dozens of times the difference in power, aizen stated you needed 2x captain level reaitsu to awaken the Hyogoku but with that 2x reaitsu he literally fodderized Komamura with 2 fingers and even use 1 finger against ichigo.

Shawlong in Base >>> Bankai 20% toshiro

as for ichigo vs dordoni that was post ichigo receiving the shinigami badge that was later introduce as being able to monitor and control ichigo reaitsu, Shikai SS ichigo was able to match Captains and crush Vice captain with ease, Shinji was able to match Base grimmjow while SHikai Ichigo was crushed with a pinky, HM ichigo needed Bankai just to be as good as he was in SS with just shikai.


Injuring someone does not mean they are in similar power, ichigo injured Kenpachi during SS but kenpachi still one shotted him with 1 hand with no effort -> if you punch the world strongest man in the face you would injure him but he would still crush and break your arm with ease just because you are able to harm him does not mean you are as powerful as he is.

Yorouchi stated bankai to be 5-10x stronger than Shikai, but we also get knowledge of Half Bankai, Half Shikai, she also mentions the power of bankai is measure by the Talent of the individual.
 
Link Eternal said:
Also, there are different degrees of ablation. At around mach 5 - 10 there is a small shimmering of supperheated air, unless I'm mistaken. This meteor is on fire, and you can hardly even see the rock itself. What speed do you need to reach this?
Click to expand...
 
Damage3245 said:
I'm pretty sure those images linked with Ulq on top of the dome shows that Las Noches isn't the size of a small country.
I'll have to do a more detailed analysis later but look at the size of Ulq compared to the pillars, and the size of the pillars compared to Las Noches.
Click to expand...
No it dosent. That's just an inconsistency on the authors part.
 
Dear God why

For once we could be celebrating with 3-A DMC once again but you gotta ruin the fun.

Wait until the novels come out.
 
So what has been agreed upon?.

If there's no indication that the meteor came from space,then it's obvious we can say Gremmy just imagined the meteor right on the earths atmosphere.

According to Tatahakai the earth's atmosphere ends at 180,000 km up,which is 180000000 meters.

So since the number is high,I will low ball that it will take 1 hour for the meteor to cross this distance.

180000000/3600=50000 m/s

So 50000 m/s is the velocity of the meteor.

Also I found something wrong in ravens's calc.He took the diameter of seretei in pixels(539) to divide the radius of seretei in km(228) instead of diameter.

The diameter of seretei is 456 km which is also 456000 in meters.

So new meteors diameter=149 px-126055 meters

Radius of the meteor=63027

Volume:4/3*pi*r^3=1.048251362e+15 m^3

Mass of meteor:volume*Density

Density of meteors are normally 3700 kg/m^3

So mass of meteor=3.878530039e+18 kg

K.E:1/2*m*v^2

So the energy of the meteor would be 4.848162549e+27 joules or 1 exatons of TNT(high 6a).
 
Where did 180000 km came from? That's like half the distance between the Earth and the Moon, Earth's atmosphere can't posibly extend that far, hell, acording to Wikipedia, the Exosfere is the outermost layer of Earth's atmosphere, and that only extends up to 10000 km.

Someone here said that we should calculate the speed of the meteor. For example (and this probably isn't the method he wanted to use), IIRC, the high of the barrier is the same as the Seireitei's radius, which is 228km. If it would have took 1 minute to the meteor to reach ground lvl then it would have a speed of mach 11 (which I think was the speed used in the original calc?).
 
@Ovy7 Tatahakai said it was that number, I mean that's what i saw in one of his replies.

Anyways u said it's 10000 km right?so i will use that instead.

10000 km=10000000 meters

Since the distance is now smaller, I will take it that the meteor would take 5 mins to cross the distance

10000000/300=33333 m/s

So energy of the meteor would be 2.15478911e27 joules or 514 petatons of TNT.
 
What in the astronomy is going on? The exosphere starts around 500/600km and extends to at least 10000km. The boundary of Earth's atmosphere and outer space is 100km, at the Karman line.

Meteors generally burn up in the mesosphere, which is 50-100km in height. Assuming he just spawns the meteor in the middle of that, it would probably be going 1km/s, and the average meteor enters Earth's atmosphere 20 times as fast. Of course they usually have speed reductions as they fly through the atmospheric layers, but an object of this size will generally have its velocity unrestricted.

It probably wouldn't even be burning.
 
Yes, but keep in mind that the barrier of Seireitei extends tens/a few hundreds of km above the ground, and from Ichigo creating sonic booms when he came back to Seireitei, we can conclude that there's air there too, maybe even normal, breatheble air, so SS's atmosphere is maybe bigger than Earth's.
 
190,00 not 180,000 my bad

"Since the exosphere gradually fades into outer space, there is no clear upper boundary of this layer. One definition of the outermost limit of the exosphere places the uppermost edge of Earth's atmosphere around 190,000 km (120,000 miles), about halfway to the Moon. At this distance, radiation pressure from sunlight exerts more force on hydrogen atoms than does the pull of Earth's gravity"

https://scied.ucar.edu/shortcontent/exosphere-overview

But as it says there's no clear upper boundary so i'm not so sure about this one

Either way my point about the meteor stands.
 
No,literally all of gremmy's creations are the same as reality ,even the smallest details

and gremmy imagined a metreor not a big ass rock

the metreor was ablating the moment it was created,this proves that gremmy is the one who created it's speed,not the gravity and having sex with the air

Meteors generally burn up in the mesosphere, which is 50-100km in height. Assuming he just spawns the meteor in the middle of that, it would probably be going 1km/s, and the average meteor enters Earth's atmosphere 20 times as fast. Of course they usually have speed reductions as they fly through the atmospheric layers, but an object of this size will generally have its velocity unrestricted.

It probably wouldn't even be burning.

Reality warping is really an application of the simple concept of concepts.

He created a whole person and body for himself. The concept of idea of a person is a body with limbs, eyes, blood, etc. this doesn't take him a second thought to do.

He opens the "galaxy room", which is space, the concept of outer space being empty, having stars/celestial bodies, plus all the effects as he stated.

It would be reasonable to assume he knows the concept of a meteor is a giant flaming rock that comes from space.

This is why i gently refuse this thread and suggest using the normal speed of metreors
 
@Danny1112 you shouldn't have that huge of a change in timeframe because the distance it's covering is larger or smaller, whether it's a large or small distance the timeframe should be based on what's reasonable for what happened between it appearing and the meteor impact. Otherwise you might as well just be picking a speed and creating the calc to match it afterwards.

@"Everyone using the edge of the Exosphere as a measure for where the meteor started" since the meteor was shown to be ablated, then we should be using the low thermosphere, not the exosphere. The exosphere isn't dense enough to cause ablation.

"However, air in the exosphere is so thin that such collisions are very rare. Gas atoms and molecules in the exosphere move along "ballistic trajectories", reminiscent of the arcing flight of a thrown ball (or shot cannonball!) as it gradually curves back towards Earth under the pull of gravity. Most gas particles in the exosphere zoom along curved paths without ever hitting another atom or molecule, eventually arcing back down into the lower atmosphere due to the pull of gravity. "- https://scied.ucar.edu/shortcontent/exosphere-overview

In other words, the exosphere is so thin it doesn't even act like a fluid, which would make it almost, if not completely impossible to achieve ablation.

Even at 330 km, within the thermosphere, the ISS is able to travel over 7km/s without having to worry about ablation.

Usually ablation only occurs starting at 110km: "Most meteors appear at altitudes between 80 ― 110 km where the atmospheric density is high enough for ablation to occur"- http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/cosmos/M/Meteor
 
I never suggested we should assume the meteor came from the exosphere

Only that the atmosphere extends very high above the earth, so just because the meteor is shown coming from hundreds of kilometers up doesn't mean it started off outside the atmosphere
 
Meteors burn in the 50-100km range. This suggests a few things-

1. Gremmy didn't just drop a random rock in this range (because it wouldn't have the speed required to burn)

2. He likely imagined the concept of a meteor, in which case we can apply the average speed since the imagination would be based on common knowledge, thus common speed

3. He imagined it in space (at least 100km above sea level), and it traveled.

Madara's rock no jutsu was stated to pull meteors from the upper atmosphere, but they never burned iirc.
 
Callsign Castle said:
Madara's rock no jutsu was stated to pull meteors from the upper atmosphere, but they never burned iirc.
Click to expand...
IIRC does were not meteors but the land that he summoned up with chibaku tensei. Meteors are supposed to come from space.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Joshyyy_64
  • Locked
Gremmy downgrade Death mp
2
Replies
41
Views
4K
UchihaSlayer96
UchihaSlayer96
Spectra_Schiffer
  • Locked
Bleach Hax Resistance addition
2
Replies
73
Views
5K
Damage3245
Damage3245
Saiiilors
  • Locked
Jugram Haschwalth(Bleach)Re-Tiering Suggestion + Re-Tiering Suggestion for Gremmy Thoumeaux/Why hasn't this Re-Tiering Suggestion been Implemented
Replies
8
Views
2K
Apotheosis69
Apotheosis69
Spectra_Schiffer
  • Locked
Bleach: TYBW Revisions (Oken scaling)
Replies
35
Views
4K
Spectra_Schiffer
Spectra_Schiffer
RoTt35
  • Locked
[FOX's X-Men] Sentinels Rework + Apocalypse Upgrade
Replies
15
Views
903
RoTt35
RoTt35
Back
Top