Bleach Top Tiers Downgrade

[Callsign_Castle]

Gremmy's power is creating anything he wants through reality warping. If that's so why not calculate him creating the meteor instead of calculating the effects of the meteor?

 

[AppleLord]

People just ignored the scan I brought up where Gremmy is so confident that he says will survive the meteor impact and the rest will die. Gremmy scales anyway since the novel puts him as the second strongest below base Yhwach who was the only who could defeat him. Which Yhwach did to seal him away.

 

[Damage3245]

> Gremmy scales anyway since the novel puts him as the second strongest below base Yhwach who was the only who could defeat him.

Doesn't Yhwach scale to Gremmy in the first place?

 

[Callsign_Castle]

All the Sternritter powers come from Yhwach.

Except for Gerard and Pernida I think.

 

[Callsign_Castle]

Also " we simply saw it a few hundred kilometers up at most when it first appeared, Gremmy had no reason to have it come from space as that would've taken longer. "

A few hundred kilometers is low-earth orbit where the satellites fly, which pretty much is space isn't it?

 

[AppleLord]

> Gremmy scales anyway since the novel puts him as the second strongest below base Yhwach who was the only who could defeat him.

Doesn't Yhwach scale to Gremmy in the first place?

You mean the Yhwach who stand up to see the meteor head on (Jugram's pussyness shouldn't be above Gremmy) and do something about it.

 

[Damage3245]

I mean Yhwach scales to Gremmy, so saying that Gremmy scales to Yhwach by being the 2nd strongest doesn't make sense.

Also, I don't see much of Yhwach doing anything there. He's just looking at it. (I find it funny that Jugram thinks that ordinary foot soldiers could protect his majesty).

 

[AppleLord]

I mean Yhwach scales to Gremmy, so saying that Gremmy scales to Yhwach by being the 2nd strongest doesn't make sense.

It's literally said in the light novels that only Yhwach can defeat Gremmy and that he was sealed by Yhwah previously a hundred years before his battle with Kenpahi.

 

[AppleLord]

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2917799

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

I thought we made it clear that until the novels are finished, no revision thread are being made.

 

[Xerkser500]

I thought we made it clear that until the novels are finished, no revision thread are being made.

Tata said he's not open to making any actual changes right now, just a general concesus decision on this to be applied later.

 

[AppleLord]

@MetalGearRaide

Here it is.

"Gremmy Thomeaux. That was the name of the boy who was known as the strongest member of the Sternritter army. It was said that no one could win against him, with the exception of Yhwach. The body he used was that of a young boy, but the real 'container' had neither age nor gender. That was because he was, in reality, just a brain within a jar. The body of the boy was just something that was 'imagined'. Such was the ability of the one who was given the Schrift 'V', the Visionary. This ability was God-like, to transform mere imagination into reality. Even objects like meteorites could be imagined into existence. In the end, Gremmy had lost to Kenpachi as he had imagined a body for himself that was unable to contain strength matching Kenpachi's; rather, such enormous strength could be contained by no one other than Kenpachi himself. As a result, his body collapsed and he had wished to no longer imagine anything anymore. And thus, the brain stopped functioning. Liltotto had confirmed with her own eyes that the brain's reiatsu had completely stopped. She did not know what happened to the vessel afterwards and she did not dare go look for it. But for the Shinigami in front of her, the story seemed to be different from that which she felt from Gremmy. This Shinigami seemed like the sort of figure that the living Gremmy could have 'imagined'. In fact, Liltotto was contemplating whether or not to ask Hikone about something like this. But, she ended up asking anyway. Upon hearing that name, Hikone's child-like face lit up."-Source.

Conclusion:

• Meteor was imagined by Gremmy, not pulled from a portal.

• Gremmy was positive he could tank it while everyone else would die.

• Base Yhwach is the only one that can defeat Gremmy.

• Gremmy lost to Kenpachi because of some fan theory becoming reality.

Your Welcome!

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Inb4 all of this is useless thanks to Madara

 

[AppleLord]

Inb4 all of this is useless thanks to Obito

Wrong thread. This is about Bleach, not Naruto.

 

[The_Calaca]

Gremmy's Visionary is so strong that the fan imagination became reality.

My only two cents here.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Wrong thread. This is about Bleach, not Naruto.

You didn't get the joke

 

[Damage3245]

> In the end, Gremmy had lost to Kenpachi as he had imagined a body for himself that was unable to contain strength matching Kenpachi's; rather, such enormous strength could be contained by no one other than Kenpachi himself.

So, Kenpachi > Yhwach?

 

[TataHakai]

Also " we simply saw it a few hundred kilometers up at most when it first appeared, Gremmy had no reason to have it come from space as that would've taken longer. "
A few hundred kilometers is low-earth orbit where the satellites fly, which pretty much is space isn't it?

Outer Space starts where the exosphere ends, 180,000 kilometers above ground

 

[TataHakai]

@MetalGearRaide
Here it is.

" Even objects like meteorites could be imagined into existence.."-Source.

And thank you, this pretty much proves my point.

As for Kenpachi, he completely destroyed the meteor without it pushing back against him

Which means his Shikai form still scales to the KE of it, though i don't know how Gremmy would scale to that, that's for the Bleach experts to decide i suppose.

 

[HST_Master]

Gremmy's Visionary is so strong that the Kenpachipotence became reality.

My only two cents here.

FTFY

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Not really, it's pretty ambiguous because of his power. He has knowledge of meteorites meaning it's perfectly reasonable he imagined a meteorite similar to one coming from space not just a falling rock because his imaginations are specific.

Your argument is "we didn't see it come from literal space" but we knows how The Visionary works.

 

[AppleLord]

> In the end, Gremmy had lost to Kenpachi as he had imagined a body for himself that was unable to contain strength matching Kenpachi's; rather, such enormous strength could be contained by no one other than Kenpachi himself.
So, Kenpachi > Yhwach?

Base Yhwach who sealed Greemy.

 

[AppleLord]

Can't we just use this for the calc?

velocity = 7900 m/s (Meteor was on flames)

EDIT:

1

2

3

4

5

6

7

8

Officially colored by Shueisha.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

M/S as in Meters per second or miles per second ?

 

[Damage3245]

@AppleLord, why 7,900?

Tata quoted this in the opening post: the values range from 2000-4000 m/s.

 

[AppleLord]

@AppleLord, why 7,900?
Tata quoted this in the opening post: the values range from 2000-4000 m/s.

Because that was the value I was told to use by one of the staff members which I did use on my calc, but I don't remember who told me that. Let me see if I can find the comment, give me a sec.

 

[TataHakai]

Our calculation page says ablation is 2000 - 4000 m/s, not 7900

 

[AppleLord]

M/S as in Meters per second or miles per second ?

Always use meters before converting to mach.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Please which one of the two it is ? Meters or Miles ?

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Meters

 

[TataHakai]

Not really, it's pretty ambiguous because of his power. He has knowledge of meteorites meaning it's perfectly reasonable he imagined a meteorite similar to one coming from space not just a falling rock because his imaginations are specific.
Your argument is "we didn't see it come from literal space" but we knows how The Visionary works.

But why would he? It logically makes no sense for him to imagine it coming from space when all that would do is make it take longer for it to drop

What we see is the meteor at most a few hundred kilometers up, this is the first time we see it, and anything else is an unfound assumption.

 

[AppleLord]

Our calculation page says ablation is 2000 - 4000 m/s, not 7900

Was it changed?

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Because he's a reality warper that can turn his imagination into reality, it doesn't have to take long because again it's his imagination which is whatever he wants it to be.

It's completely logical over your interpretation which is pretty much just an argument from tradition, you don't need to see everything to believe it.

What we know is it's a meteor, and meteors come from space. If you were imagining a meteor into existence why would you think that it would come down slower then one from space? I'm not saying your interpretation is baseless but I think this one is much more likely simply due to his power.

 

[TataHakai]

Our calculation page says ablation is 2000 - 4000 m/s, not 7900

Was it changed?

I don't recall it, as far as i know we've always used 2 - 4 km/s

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Yeah, after everything that was said, I agree with the op.

 

[AppleLord]

I can't remember who told me to use it.

It was on a wall discussion and I used here, but I couldn't find the wall post. Welp, we could use the calc op made above.

 

[TataHakai]

Because he's a reality warper that can turn his imagination into reality, it doesn't have to take long because again it's his imagination which is whatever he wants it to be.
It's completely logical over your interpretation which is pretty much just an argument from tradition, you don't need to see everything to believe it.

What we know is it's a meteor, and meteors come from space. If you were imagining a meteor into existence why would you think that it would come down slower then one from space?

Actually no, it's called occam's razor, my interpretation is more accurate because it assumes less than yours, mine is also backed by the fact that there's no visual evidence whilst yours NEEDS visual evidence to support it

With that logic we shouldn't even have meteor rules, everything that's called a meteor or not even shown to come from space should just be 11.2 km/s because well, meteors HAVE to come from space right? not like we're dealing with a character who can imagine things into existence in any location whatsoever

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Except not everyone who has meteorite based attack's reality warps them into existence. You're literally ignoring how his power works to further your argument.

Occam's razor is on my side in this context because I'm using his actual power. Meteors only come from space so I don't understand your last part about location.

Which is more likely

1. Gremmy imagines a meteor above Seireitei, and seeing that he knows about space and what not he'd know they come from space which is a basic thing for someone to know regardless of their background. So he'd imagined a meteor that is from space perfectly simulated.

2. Gremmy summoned a Meteor but since we didn't see it come from space, he imagined just a flaming big rock in the sky because why not. Even though he specifically calls it a meteorite which a rock from space.

 

[Blahblah9755]

You're jumping from he "he knows space is a thing" to "his mind can create perfect meteor entry simulations, including the affects of Earth's gravity on an approaching meteor that cause them to reach typical entry speeds". That is a big assumption.

 

[TataHakai]

Except not everyone who has meteorite based attack's reality warps them into existence. You're literally ignoring how his power works to further your argument.
Occam's razor is on my side in this context because I'm using his actual power. Meteors only come from space so I don't understand your last part about location.

Except that simply makes it LESS obvious that gremmy brought it down

Since we know it's possible for him to imagine meteors inside the atmosphere whereas it isn't for most others, so Gremmy being able to do that is just more towards the assumption that he did imagine it inside the atmosphere.

Meteors do only come from space, but Gremmy can imagine ANYTHING into existence at any point, this is the equivalent of saying Gremmy didn't imagine a pocket of space around Kenpachi he moved it towards him because Outer space only exists in outer space. We know Gremmy is able to imagine things into existence outside of their usual locations so this point makes no sense.

Again, Occam's razor is that the answer with the least assumptions is most likely the correct one.

You assume more than i do, which makes my point correct.