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Bleach: Mother is Mothering (Unohana 5-C Upgrade)

LordTracer

LordTracer

He/Him
VS Battles
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Kubo said that Aizen would have to exhaust himself in order to defeat Unohana, implying that she’s strong enough to push him to that degree. Therefore, she should downscale from him.

vsbattles.fandom.com

LordTracer/Unohana

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
I’ve put together this sandbox to show her new stats, with her speed and Bankai AP now scaling to Aizen. Her new speed would also scale to Kenpachi’s Post-Unohana Training key, since he could keep up with her.

Pretty simple stuff, Unohana really is her.
 
I obviously agree. And it’s worth noting that Unohana likely possesses all or nearly all of Squad 4’s fighting power (given Squad 4 is famous for being a squad of weak characters when it comes to raw power). Which is worth noting cuz the nerfed Squad 0 members believe they’re weaker than a single Gotei 13 squad, implying that Unohana is likely above the nerfed Squad 0 in terms of power, supporting her scaling proposed by Tracer.
 
Shouldnt starrk downscale from shinigami aizen as well? I believe there was a similar klub outside entry regarding him

(agreed)
 
Wankbreaker said:
Aizen waited until after he gained the Hogyoku to recruit Starrk, due to his strength making him difficult to handle

Check question 674
Click to expand...
First, Kubo deflects the question by just saying “Starrk’s a hard guy to read”. Second, Aizen’s the same overly cautious who trapped a Kenpachi Zaraki who’s so far below him just to be safe. It’s far from the same thing as Kubo saying “he would’ve been exhausted fighting them”.

Furthermore, Starrk’s Res is just his original form, since it recombines his split halves together. And Res Starrk loses to Aizen hands down.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
First, Kubo deflects the question by just saying “Starrk’s a hard guy to read”. Second, Aizen’s the same overly cautious who trapped a Kenpachi Zaraki who’s so far below him just to be safe. It’s far from the same thing as Kubo saying “he would’ve been exhausted fighting them”.
Click to expand...
Aizen walked up to Barragan with zero issue what's so ever. Plus, Kubo just straight up says "its Option 2" to the original questioner, and gives the "he's hard to read" as a side note. The questioner explicitly brang up power being the reason, and kubo doesn't give a side note that really says otherwise.
Arc7Kuroi said:
Furthermore, Starrk’s Res is just his original form, since it recombines his split halves together. And Res Starrk loses to Aizen hands down.
Click to expand...
No one is saying he wins. He's just strong enough to be "hard to deal with", and aizen had to save him for later
 
Wankbreaker said:
Aizen walked up to Barragan with zero issue what's so ever. Plus, Kubo just straight up says "its Option 2" to the original questioner, and gives the "he's hard to read" as a side note. The questioner explicitly brang up power being the reason, and kubo doesn't give a side note that really says otherwise.
Click to expand...
Barragan isn't relevant here whatsoever.

Wankbreaker said:
No one is saying he wins. He's just strong enough to be "hard to deal with", and aizen had to save him for later
Click to expand...
By that logic, scale Arrancar Arc Zaraki to Aizen. Like 1) you can interpret that statement in a way that doesn't make Starrk ~ Aizen, and 2) it's just no where near supported.
 
LordTracer said:
Kubo said that Aizen would have to exhaust himself in order to defeat Unohana, implying that she’s strong enough to push him to that degree. Therefore, she should downscale from him.

vsbattles.fandom.com

LordTracer/Unohana

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
I’ve put together this sandbox to show her new stats, with her speed and Bankai AP now scaling to Aizen. Her new speed would also scale to Kenpachi’s Post-Unohana Training key, since he could keep up with her.

Pretty simple stuff, Unohana really is her.
Click to expand...
finally my queen is getting what she deserves! Agreed
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Barragan isn't relevant here whatsoever.
Click to expand...
He kind of is, as Aizen has not used the same approach he did with Starrk. Aizen just walked straight in and flexed all over him.
Arc7Kuroi said:
By that logic, scale Arrancar Arc Zaraki to Aizen. Like 1) you can interpret that statement in a way that doesn't make Starrk ~ Aizen, and 2) it's just no where near supported.
Click to expand...
This is definitely different, as Aizen pretty much had to subjugate the Espada.

If a question is asked that relates to power in some way, and Kubo effectively gives no objections to the second option raised (which is about power) , that kinda is the default assumption.
 
Wankbreaker said:
He kind of is, as Aizen has not used the same approach he did with Starrk. Aizen just walked straight in and flexed all over him.
Click to expand...
Barragan is massively weaker than Starrk, it’s a non point.

Wankbreaker said:
This is definitely different, as Aizen pretty much had to subjugate the Espada.

If a question is asked that relates to power in some way, and Kubo effectively gives no objections to the second option raised (which is about power) , that kinda is the default assumption.
Click to expand...
Maybe if that statement existed in a vacuum you’d have a point. But it doesn’t. Ignorance is a choice, and you can willfully remain ignorant on the rest of the series, or you can acknowledge the grander context.

SAFWY makes it clear that Res Starrk is so strong because he re-fuses with his other half. Which would simply produce the version of himself originally, the version that was sitting in the sands passively killing Hollows. And Aizen is massively above that Starrk, in fact Aizen was surprised that the Espada were so inferior to him. Meaning that the Espada were WEAKER than Aizen thought. Aizen assumed Starrk was super strong, so in a cautious manner consistent with his character, he didn’t rush in brazenly. However, the truth of the matter is, regardless of what happened, Aizen is simply much stronger.
 
Personally, I believe the statement given doesn't necessarily imply which version of Unohana is being discussed, so it can be interpreted that she should also downscale in Base. However, I don't care enough about the issue to argue the point. So if it's accepted that she only scales with Bankai, I'm totally fine with accepting that conclusion.
 
Deceived3596 said:
Personally, I believe the statement given doesn't necessarily imply which version of Unohana is being discussed, so it can be interpreted that she should also downscale in Base. However, I don't care enough about the issue to argue the point. So if it's accepted that she only scales with Bankai, I'm totally fine with accepting that conclusion.
Click to expand...
I know you said you don’t care, but I’ll provide an argument for why going with just her Bankai is fine for people who do care.

The statement is that Aizen would defeat Unohana but he believes he’d be exhausted in doing so. Given Unohana’s Bankai lets her dominate opponents she was previously relative with (as seen with Zaraki), and she has 0 reason to hold back/not utilize Bankai in a fight against Aizen, it is unlikely that Kubo’s statement is saying that Aizen would be exhausted from fighting base Unohana. Especially since the answer is talking about Aizen’s thought process, Kubo answers that “Aizen thinks this”. Aizen being a character who knows the truth about Unohana and would also know about her Bankai. It doesn’t make sense for Aizen to think he could beat Unohana in a physical altercation if he also thought her Bankai could easily kill him (she went from being relative to Zaraki in base to killing Zaraki with her Bankai, it’s a rather sizable amp). Couple that with the plethora of other statements that put Aizen’s power holistically above Unohana’s, and you have a case of it being far more consistent to say Aizen >~ Bankai Unohana > Unohana.

And before people say “KS GG tho”. It’s unlikely Aizen believes he can just use KS to off guard kill Unohana, because 1) if it were that easy he wouldn’t believe he’d be exhausted fighting her, 2) Unohana can to a degree see through the illusions as she just revealed to Aizen, and 3) the nature of the question is geared towards “power levels” given it’s talking about Aizen’s power compared to other captains.

I guess tho, if you wanted to connect Unohana’s base to her Bankai, Bankai generally provide 5-10x amps. So it is likely that her Bankai isn’t more than 10x stronger than her base, in which case you could downscale her base to ~10 Exatons instead of it being 6.something.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
I guess tho, if you wanted to connect Unohana’s base to her Bankai, Bankai generally provide 5-10x amps. So it is likely that her Bankai isn’t more than 10x stronger than her base, in which case you could downscale her base to ~10 Exatons instead of it being 6.something.
Click to expand...
I did think about that before making the thread, although I wasn’t sure if that kind of backscaling could apply for any Bankai, so I left it out.
 
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