Twisted_Little_Raven
She/Her- 3,072
- 1,701
I think Unohana should upscale their base states, but if we only accept Aizen im fine with that.
Now we currently already accept Unohana being stronger than everyone but Base Aizen and Yamamoto. I think they should be included in as well.
I wanna first tackle something i find wrong. "Aizen doesn't consider Unohana a threat, only Yamamoto and Zaraki's potential."
Conclusion. He doesnt fear Unohana because she doesn't fight and under KS on top. Nor has the devasting aoe that Yama has that would make being under KS irrelevant. She didn't even attack him when he slashed Toshiro right in front of her. He fears Kenpachi potential because the guy throughout the series has been portrayed as immortal. Which is why he waited until he got actual immortality. Kenpachi isnt like other shinigami. He takes far more lethal attacks than they are able to. So lets say he and Aizen had evenish strength, Kenpachi's pseudo immortality would make him come out on top. Kenpachi isnt just a monster because hes strong, but he takes far more damage than most shinigami are capable. So it would make sense if he wanted actual immortality first. It literally states immortal body. For a reason. He wants to make sure his body wont give out in a contest of endurance. Which is what he knows a fight with Kenpachi would bring. Thus needs an immortal body.
Is where i call bs arrogance and proven wrong. Why is it proven wrong? Well for one, Yama is literally stronger than him. How are you unequaled, if Isshin, Anti-Hierro Yoruichi, and Kisuke are all treated as being your equals. And Yama on top is stronger than you. You literally say you're unequaled, but admit Kisuke as being your equal... How do we even allow such contradictions?
Yama was literally your superior, we all agree to this, you literally admit Kisuke as your equal after saying your shinigami powers were unequaled. Isshin, Yoruichi are also treated as his equals. I also found this on his profile about databooks comfirming it. Except you aren't stronger than everyone else. He's weaker than Yamamoto, called Kisuke his equal, and we can add two other people in that category. You're not unequaled, you aren't the strongest. You are stronger than the typical shinigami which Unohana is not. For some reason people act like Base Aizen is transcendent when it comes to other shinigami but he isn't. Only Chrysalis and up can upscale all shinigami like that. Plus Aizen is an arrogant person by nature. So we have arrogance, blatant lying, and contradictions. You might say "Well Aizen is stronger than everyone but them obviously" not how unequaled works. Nor is it the same as Unohana saying she is stronger than everyone because im including Yama in my statement, where as ppl auto assume yama is excluded with Aizens.
Yea no remove Unohana from his justification. Plus you might argue, well Yama is stronger than him so of course they aren't equal. Okay? I can just exclude Unohana from that as well. Unequaled means nobody can hold a candle to you and your power is without equal. Big contradiction, is a statement from an arrogant character, he straight up lied, and uhh contradiction.
Retsu Unohana: Offense: 100; Defense: 80; Mobility: 70; Kidou: 100; Intelligence: 100; Physical Strength: 90
Sōsuke Aizen: Offense: 100; Defense: 90; Mobility: 90; Kidou: 100; Intelligence: 100; Physical Strength: 80
Lets talk about that Kenpachi's potential Aizen was so afraid of. More than likely that potential is just Kid Kenpachi's potential. He fears how strong he used to be, and doesnt wanna bring out said potential until he got an immortal body. This is more likely what he is referring too backed up by Unohana saying only Kenpachi is stronger than her. By that she means Kid Kenpachi. The power she's trying to bring him back to. So more than likely the potential people are actually referring to is Kid Kenpachi's power, as Unohana says only he surpasses her. It would make sense if they meant reiatsu/ap wise as the two of them are basically brutes. Kenpachi has always been a brute. Why would it not assume anything other than how strong his power is Ap/reiatsu wise.
Even if i accept Unohana as superior it doesn't mean i think she would beat them. Unohana understands the fear and danger behind KS. She even hyped up Ichigo's reiatsu meaning she must not find base Aizen's reiatsu particularly impressive. Unohana has always been afraid of KS. She is inferior to that. Aizen using KS. And since she's already under it she knows she doesnt stand a chance. Yamamoto i think is superior to her as an overall combatant. Everyone knows he has one of the strongest Zanpakuto in the entire soul society. I think she's inferior to his bankai. I think Unohana accepts their superiority due to a zanpakuto diff. Aizen has KS and Yama has one of the strongest zanpakutos stated multiple times. This is what i called carried by the zanpakuto. They are def strong without it, but a difference of zanpakuto is the only thing making them superior. In Aizen's case its purely hax, in Yama's case its the aoe and his shikai and bankai likely giving him amps far superior to what we accept for current bankai multipliers. Even Arc agrees Yama's bankai amp is likely far beyond 10x but we cant prove this
Plus she's not a combatant. It be reasonable to assume she's not included for that alone. Even though i contradicted Aizen being unequaled. So lets assume i agree with it (I dont) the fact shes not even a fighter is reason enough to exclude her. But i think Aizen being unequaled is so contradicted i dont even think i need go that far xD
lets go a step further. Proof of Aizen's arrogance, is during the final fight with Ichigo. Ichigo is literally casually stomping him, and Aizen is still in disbelief by whats happening in front of him. Dude literally has a god complex. So why aren't we taking him being unequal as nothing more than bs? Bc Databook goes the extra mile and says hes stronger than anyone else? Which is even worse btw. Saying you dont have an equal and being stronger than everyone is two entirely different things. The latter makes it even worse.
Unohana is superior to Aizen by both her statement, fearing Kenpachi's potential which most likely is referring to his Kid potential due to Unohana's statement. The only contradiction is Aizen being unequal which is wrong asf, and if its right (its not) it would make sense not to include someone we know for sure isnt a combatant anymore. Plus Unohana having same Offensive stat, and more physical strength. Not a contradiction in this case. You also have Unohana hyping up Ichigo's reiatsu so she must not think a shit load of it is needed for Aizen just someone strong and not affected by KS. Plus she seen first hand how strong he was. Unohana isnt impressed with Aizen only KS. And her ridiculous theoretical multiplier. I understand its not calcable, im just saying its crazy. Doesnt view her as a threat because she literally doesn't fight, and didn't when she had the chance. He knows her intentions, but respects her enough to not force anything if he doesnt need to
Note: My only issue with my argument is doesn't specify which Aizen or any. So you can easily assume she is stronger than Muken Aizen, or we could use common sense and think shinigami Aizen. Regardless i think a Yamamoto should be done here and assume she is auto excluded from his statements due to not being a fighter anymore thus not considered. Even the damn arrancar didnt attack her because he knew she was just a healer. Even if he knew she was strong, its just goes to show how her perception is treated.
Don't be in a rush to close this please as i might potentially have to wait a day at most due to circumstances
Agree: Hasch
Disagree: Myxenete (For Yama), LordGriffin1000, Arc7Kuroi, Guacamolefletcher
Neutral: Myxenete (For Aizen)
Now we currently already accept Unohana being stronger than everyone but Base Aizen and Yamamoto. I think they should be included in as well.
I wanna first tackle something i find wrong. "Aizen doesn't consider Unohana a threat, only Yamamoto and Zaraki's potential."
Aizen doesn't fear Unohana
Okay? Zaraki is a blood thirsty maniac who would happily fight Aizen. Unohana on the other hand is a former blood thirsty maniac. She's not even allowed to fight and she only pretty much heals. Why would he be afraid of someone whom no longer fights and on top of that under the effects of KS? What's the difference between Yama and Unohana? Their Zanpakuto. It wouldn't matter if Yamamoto is under KS, his zanpakuto has a huge devastating range even in shikai. People for some reason scale Aizen to Yama's shikai and i dont know why. Yamamoto was only going to nuke Aizen because of how dangerous he was. He wanted to make sure he would be dead. Let's pretend somehow Aizen escapes Yama's grip, he could just run away. Or lets pretend Yama was never actually grabbing him, only sure he was. There could still be a chance he could still be around if Yama wasn't actually grabbing him. Aizen even if he runs away or wasnt being grabbed likely wouldn't escape the aoe that Yama was gunna inflict with his shikai attack. Yama was skeptical Aizen would even be able to cut him. So why would he scale to his shikai when Yama didnt even think Aizen would even be strong enough to cut his base?Conclusion. He doesnt fear Unohana because she doesn't fight and under KS on top. Nor has the devasting aoe that Yama has that would make being under KS irrelevant. She didn't even attack him when he slashed Toshiro right in front of her. He fears Kenpachi potential because the guy throughout the series has been portrayed as immortal. Which is why he waited until he got actual immortality. Kenpachi isnt like other shinigami. He takes far more lethal attacks than they are able to. So lets say he and Aizen had evenish strength, Kenpachi's pseudo immortality would make him come out on top. Kenpachi isnt just a monster because hes strong, but he takes far more damage than most shinigami are capable. So it would make sense if he wanted actual immortality first. It literally states immortal body. For a reason. He wants to make sure his body wont give out in a contest of endurance. Which is what he knows a fight with Kenpachi would bring. Thus needs an immortal body.
Aizen is unequaled in soul society
Is where i call bs arrogance and proven wrong. Why is it proven wrong? Well for one, Yama is literally stronger than him. How are you unequaled, if Isshin, Anti-Hierro Yoruichi, and Kisuke are all treated as being your equals. And Yama on top is stronger than you. You literally say you're unequaled, but admit Kisuke as being your equal... How do we even allow such contradictions?
Yama was literally your superior, we all agree to this, you literally admit Kisuke as your equal after saying your shinigami powers were unequaled. Isshin, Yoruichi are also treated as his equals. I also found this on his profile about databooks comfirming it. Except you aren't stronger than everyone else. He's weaker than Yamamoto, called Kisuke his equal, and we can add two other people in that category. You're not unequaled, you aren't the strongest. You are stronger than the typical shinigami which Unohana is not. For some reason people act like Base Aizen is transcendent when it comes to other shinigami but he isn't. Only Chrysalis and up can upscale all shinigami like that. Plus Aizen is an arrogant person by nature. So we have arrogance, blatant lying, and contradictions. You might say "Well Aizen is stronger than everyone but them obviously" not how unequaled works. Nor is it the same as Unohana saying she is stronger than everyone because im including Yama in my statement, where as ppl auto assume yama is excluded with Aizens.
Yea no remove Unohana from his justification. Plus you might argue, well Yama is stronger than him so of course they aren't equal. Okay? I can just exclude Unohana from that as well. Unequaled means nobody can hold a candle to you and your power is without equal. Big contradiction, is a statement from an arrogant character, he straight up lied, and uhh contradiction.
Unohana is superior to their base forms
Now during the Kenpachi fight Unohana says she is stronger than anyone, but him. Aizen is excluded from this and Yama and i dont really see why. Now i know we don't treat those captain stats as 100% accurate or rather we dont go entirely based off that. But since Unohana stated she is stronger than anyone but Kenpachi i think its fine to use it here. I did see in some profiles we use these sometimes not always. Unohana has a higher physical strength stat and their offense stat equal. I normally take these with a grain of salt unless contradicted in series. Unohana being > Aizen isnt contradicted. Its because of Aizen lying about being unequaled and nobody treating it as a contradiction despite calling Kisuke his equal and us accepting Kisuke as his equal. Which i do too btw.Retsu Unohana: Offense: 100; Defense: 80; Mobility: 70; Kidou: 100; Intelligence: 100; Physical Strength: 90
Sōsuke Aizen: Offense: 100; Defense: 90; Mobility: 90; Kidou: 100; Intelligence: 100; Physical Strength: 80
Lets talk about that Kenpachi's potential Aizen was so afraid of. More than likely that potential is just Kid Kenpachi's potential. He fears how strong he used to be, and doesnt wanna bring out said potential until he got an immortal body. This is more likely what he is referring too backed up by Unohana saying only Kenpachi is stronger than her. By that she means Kid Kenpachi. The power she's trying to bring him back to. So more than likely the potential people are actually referring to is Kid Kenpachi's power, as Unohana says only he surpasses her. It would make sense if they meant reiatsu/ap wise as the two of them are basically brutes. Kenpachi has always been a brute. Why would it not assume anything other than how strong his power is Ap/reiatsu wise.
Even if i accept Unohana as superior it doesn't mean i think she would beat them. Unohana understands the fear and danger behind KS. She even hyped up Ichigo's reiatsu meaning she must not find base Aizen's reiatsu particularly impressive. Unohana has always been afraid of KS. She is inferior to that. Aizen using KS. And since she's already under it she knows she doesnt stand a chance. Yamamoto i think is superior to her as an overall combatant. Everyone knows he has one of the strongest Zanpakuto in the entire soul society. I think she's inferior to his bankai. I think Unohana accepts their superiority due to a zanpakuto diff. Aizen has KS and Yama has one of the strongest zanpakutos stated multiple times. This is what i called carried by the zanpakuto. They are def strong without it, but a difference of zanpakuto is the only thing making them superior. In Aizen's case its purely hax, in Yama's case its the aoe and his shikai and bankai likely giving him amps far superior to what we accept for current bankai multipliers. Even Arc agrees Yama's bankai amp is likely far beyond 10x but we cant prove this
Plus she's not a combatant. It be reasonable to assume she's not included for that alone. Even though i contradicted Aizen being unequaled. So lets assume i agree with it (I dont) the fact shes not even a fighter is reason enough to exclude her. But i think Aizen being unequaled is so contradicted i dont even think i need go that far xD
lets go a step further. Proof of Aizen's arrogance, is during the final fight with Ichigo. Ichigo is literally casually stomping him, and Aizen is still in disbelief by whats happening in front of him. Dude literally has a god complex. So why aren't we taking him being unequal as nothing more than bs? Bc Databook goes the extra mile and says hes stronger than anyone else? Which is even worse btw. Saying you dont have an equal and being stronger than everyone is two entirely different things. The latter makes it even worse.
Aizen "fears" Unohana (Not really)
Personally i dislike this mindset ppl have but it does have some logical thinking. For example Unohana is the perfect target to kill or at least wound. For one, she is their best healer. Taking her out is an assured victory. And not only that, she is a witness. Witness to the slaughter of central 46 and cutting down of Toshiro and Hinomari assuming Unohana senses her reiatsu. Plus, she's under KS. She's a free target no? I dont think he fears her, i do think he is cautious. This isnt my main argument i could care less if it gets discarded.Theoretical multiplier
So we know Kenpachi gets stronger each times he comes near death. Well he went from needing two hands to beat Nnoitra because one would not be enough, to seeing Yammy espada number 0 as an annoyance/nuisance. Idk about y'all, but to go from needing to two hands for Espada 5 to seeing Yammy as a nuisance is a pretty big jump. Like an unfathomable jump i say. And that's only off a single "zenkai" boost. Now, im not saying every single time he loses/dies it will be that much of an amp every single time. But it is something to note. Unohana killed Kenpachi a countless amount of times. And each time, he gets stronger. Yet i just pointed out how almost losing to Nnoitra, to seeing Yammy as fodder is a pretty big increase in power. We dont know how many times she killed him, but we know its alot. And if he got that much stronger EACH time would be insane. Now i don't think each death boosted him up much, but you cant rule it out. So basically what im saying is, if she could kill him countless times, which could easily be several dozens to even hundreds, would mean her strength is literally absurd. Granted not all her kills were due to raw strength, she's also an expert with the sword so its a mix of strength diff and skill diff. So imo this theoretical multiplier also puts her above Aizen esp since they are on the same tier atm unless you upscale him which i don't think you should.Unohana is superior to Aizen by both her statement, fearing Kenpachi's potential which most likely is referring to his Kid potential due to Unohana's statement. The only contradiction is Aizen being unequal which is wrong asf, and if its right (its not) it would make sense not to include someone we know for sure isnt a combatant anymore. Plus Unohana having same Offensive stat, and more physical strength. Not a contradiction in this case. You also have Unohana hyping up Ichigo's reiatsu so she must not think a shit load of it is needed for Aizen just someone strong and not affected by KS. Plus she seen first hand how strong he was. Unohana isnt impressed with Aizen only KS. And her ridiculous theoretical multiplier. I understand its not calcable, im just saying its crazy. Doesnt view her as a threat because she literally doesn't fight, and didn't when she had the chance. He knows her intentions, but respects her enough to not force anything if he doesnt need to
Note: My only issue with my argument is doesn't specify which Aizen or any. So you can easily assume she is stronger than Muken Aizen, or we could use common sense and think shinigami Aizen. Regardless i think a Yamamoto should be done here and assume she is auto excluded from his statements due to not being a fighter anymore thus not considered. Even the damn arrancar didnt attack her because he knew she was just a healer. Even if he knew she was strong, its just goes to show how her perception is treated.
Don't be in a rush to close this please as i might potentially have to wait a day at most due to circumstances
Agree: Hasch
Disagree: Myxenete (For Yama), LordGriffin1000, Arc7Kuroi, Guacamolefletcher
Neutral: Myxenete (For Aizen)
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then reread the paragraph cuz I address the notion of cherry picking what it refers to.
