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Bleach high godly and concept hax

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Hellscream said:
What?..
Did you read what information type 1 is?

It literally says that reishi if the fundamental building block of existence itself in bleach, and reishi itself contains all information of all things, including the laws of the verse, space, souls literally everything.

This is the definition of Information manip type 2.
Click to expand...
Reishi is the fundamental of the verse(Mind, Soul etc) , but there is not enough evidence that Reishi consists of information type 2. Do not distort explanation . As the expressions get mixed up, our job gets harder.
 
CodeCCLL said:
Reishi is the fundamental of the verse(Mind, Soul etc) , but there is not enough evidence that Reishi consists of information type 2. Do not distort explanation . As the expressions get mixed up, our job gets harder.
Click to expand...
Buddy.
The entire verse is made up out of reishi.
 
Planck69 said:
I feel like people are pasting any sort of information as the sort that'd grant them Type 2 Information Manipulation. Memories, knowledge etc. wouldn't be it.
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Memories / knowledge isn't what's being argued tho?
Reishi is what makes up space, the laws, souls, which is what everything in the verse is made up of.
The garganta itself is made up out of reishi.
All the fundamental information that makes up the verse itself, is contained within reishi

If reishi solely contained memories / knowledge then it wouldn't qualify for info type 2, but that is not the case here.
 
Marshadow29 said:
It does, yhwach couldnt say his name even before ichibei took it
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Yhwach did said his name in the end. Almighty null the ink.

My point it only affects the specific target's memories, and existence. It doesn't affect the whole Bleach timeline or existence. In the Howls From The Jaws Of Hell Arc chapter 0 characters can still remember Yhwach. Ichibei in the Can't Fear Your Own World Arc flashbacks to the TYBW, before this new arc, rename Yhwach's entire corpse to "Reio" but that didn't affect anyone at all besides that specific target.
 
Just to let everyone know i'm starting to get a cold, so i probably won't be responding much to this thread, should hopefully be over in a couple days.
 
@Deceived3596 The difference between illusion and reality doesn’t really explain how that involves literal information that is the fundamental block of reality. That part sounds like massive headcanon unless you can prove it involves actually controlling information itself.

First main point is just physics manipulation, nothing about this remotely proves that information itself is comprised of the fundamental blocks of reality, just that everything in bleach has a soul, which kind of shoots high godly in the foot here. As for the response to Planck I don’t really see how this proves information itself being created from the ground up, or how reishi is composed of literal info. You just prove that Fullbringers can manipulate anything into a soul and they control physics.

The yukio scan doesn’t really help here given it’s a specific thing he does and nothing about it mentions reishi is composed of data/info.

Not sure how the Soul King being separated into separate beings help here when pernida and the rest aren’t stated to be made of literal information.

This just sounds like power absorption, nothing about this proves literal information that’s the fundamental part of one’s existence is a part of Reishi.

Yeah carving your memories isn’t the same as literal type 2 information.

Space and Laws mean nothing here, especially when the argument is talking about literal information that’s the building block of existence.

as for the supporting points:

The being consuming items just sounds like information analysis, this doesn’t really prove reishi is composed of information.

The pernida stuff is the only one I see that has some form of mention on information, but again this doesn’t remotely prove that reishi itself is composed of literal information, just that it can absorb info to grow stronger.

I’ll respond to any future counter points once I get off from school.
 
Hellscream said:
Memories / knowledge isn't what's being argued tho?
Reishi is what makes up space, the laws, souls, which is what everything in the verse is made up of.
Click to expand...
Cool. Is information referenced as being Reishi or composed of it at any given point? Being a buiding block of a setting isn't in and of itself proof.
Hellscream said:
The garganta itself is made up out of reishi.
All the fundamental information that makes up the verse itself, is contained within reishi
Click to expand...
And the only scans that were brought up by Deceived didn't directly state that or just showed information in the sense of memories, knowledge, powers etc. and not "the sky is blue" and thus making it so. Unless you have more to post.
 
Theglassman12 said:
Looking through the bleach pages I have questions regarding some of the abilities due to how lacking the information is.

high-godly regen: So where exactly in this scan does it imply informational regeneration? Because turning from an imaginary product to something real is way to vague in of itself and doesn’t remotely explain that literal information that’s the building block of existence is being reformed from the ground up. If there’s no other scan to justify this then this should be downgraded to mid-godly as this is insufficient for high-godly. This would also nuke the information type 2 manipulation from the pages assuming they’re all stemmed from this same scan here.

Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2): so where exactly in the scans for Ichibei does it imply that him rewriting/erasing names can extend to concepts that govern all of reality? Because being able to grant names for Zanpakutos or removing/erasing Yhwach’s name is only a type 3 concept he’s affecting since the names are tied to a specific object, not an overarching concept that governs existence.

Agree: 9 (Planck [regen], Delta, Chosen [on concept], Luffy, artorimachi, Dr Whiteee, Maxeez, Damage [regen], Maz [regen], Yung [regen])

Disagree: 8 (Elde [concept], Hellscream [concept], Maz [concept], Sigurd [concept], Marshadow [concept], KINGWILL [concept], Malekith [concept], Gin [concept])

Neutral: 8 (Chosen [regen], Planck [concept], Sigurd [regen], Marshadow [regen], Yung [concept], KINGWILL [regen], Malekith [regen], Gin [regen])
Click to expand...
Neutral on high godly regen. Disagree with the conceptual counter argument.
 
I am not sure if this helps.

But Memories are information type 2 in Bleach. Senna existence itself was formed by memories and she was clearly able to replicate Soul reapers abilities. Just don't take it for abstact existence type 1 because her body was able replicate abilities of whatever a soul reaper can do.

 
Theglassman12 said:
@Deceived3596 The difference between illusion and reality doesn’t really explain how that involves literal information that is the fundamental block of reality. That part sounds like massive headcanon unless you can prove it involves actually controlling information itself.

First main point is just physics manipulation, nothing about this remotely proves that information itself is comprised of the fundamental blocks of reality, just that everything in bleach has a soul, which kind of shoots high godly in the foot here. As for the response to Planck I don’t really see how this proves information itself being created from the ground up, or how reishi is composed of literal info. You just prove that Fullbringers can manipulate anything into a soul and they control physics.

The yukio scan doesn’t really help here given it’s a specific thing he does and nothing about it mentions reishi is composed of data/info.

Not sure how the Soul King being separated into separate beings help here when pernida and the rest aren’t stated to be made of literal information.

This just sounds like power absorption, nothing about this proves literal information that’s the fundamental part of one’s existence is a part of Reishi.

Yeah carving your memories isn’t the same as literal type 2 information.

Space and Laws mean nothing here, especially when the argument is talking about literal information that’s the building block of existence.

as for the supporting points:

The being consuming items just sounds like information analysis, this doesn’t really prove reishi is composed of information.

The pernida stuff is the only one I see that has some form of mention on information, but again this doesn’t remotely prove that reishi itself is composed of literal information, just that it can absorb info to grow stronger.

I’ll respond to any future counter points once I get off from school.
Click to expand...
It's Because yukio programs reality using reishi. Which is how fullbringers in general control the world allowing them to transcend it
Screenshot_2023-03-07-13-02-30.png
 
@Arc7Kuroi I’m dropping the Ichibei concept hax stuff thanks to the concept of black, though I prefer the page gets rewritten to have that be the type 2 concept and not the zanpakuto concepts. Only thing conceptual related is just the one hollow in the novels having type 2 resistance because he got his name back, which should be type 3 unless there’s more to it.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Deceived is sick and we’re gonna wait for him to reply to the glassman argument (I think), but there is not standing conclusion atm. Although I think the Ichibe CM point has been dropped from the OP but someone can correct me if I’m wrong
Click to expand...
I see, he seems to understand a lot about Bleach, thanks
 
Theglassman12 said:
@Arc7Kuroi I’m dropping the Ichibei concept hax stuff thanks to the concept of black, though I prefer the page gets rewritten to have that be the type 2 concept and not the zanpakuto concepts. Only thing conceptual related is just the one hollow in the novels having type 2 resistance because he got his name back, which should be type 3 unless there’s more to it.
Click to expand...
IIRC that had to do with him absorbing a soul king piece.
 
Could ichibei have high godly? When Yhwach broke Tensa Zangetsu with the almighty, orihime couldnt fix it by herself due to it being broken in all timelines/futures. Ichibei was able to regenerate from that by Ichigo calling his name out.
 
Marshadow29 said:
Could ichibei have high godly? When Yhwach broke Tensa Zangetsu with the almighty, orihime couldnt fix it by herself due to it being broken in all timelines/futures. Ichibei was able to regenerate from that by Ichigo calling his name out.
Click to expand...
Did he use the almighty to kill Ichibei?
 
@KingogKings777 does that have anything to do with his name being something that governs reality or something that only governs its own existence? Because a name that only covers an individual is still a type 3 concept.
 
@Duedate8898 the high godly regen on the page is being argued to be removed as it stems from a scan that says someone used reishi to reform their body from an imagination, despite there being no evidence that their information was nuked, which is the high godly argument. Deceived commented a page prior arguing for High godly right here. The only other thing left that's being argued is reforming someone's name being a type 3 concept since one of the hollows is being argued to resist type 2 concept hax for restoring its name.
 
Even with treating reishi as being a fundamental thing to reality, the regeneration being shown would only qualify for Mid-Godly at best. He has no feats nor statement of coming back of having all of his reishi destroyed, just his body.

High-Godly should go.

And I assume the hollow in question is Ikomikidomoe, who I agree should just have type 3 resistance to concept manipulation. Since what he does is just get his own name back as far as I know.
 
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