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Bleach high godly and concept hax

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Duedate8898 said:
He has no feats nor statement of coming back of having all of his reishi destroyed, just his body.
Click to expand...
His entire body is reishi...

Regenerating his body from naught would entail exactly that, regenerating his reishi.

Deceived has informed me that he'll address everything when his illness fades, but I felt compelled to dispel this misinfo.
 
Duedate8898 said:
Is that scan on the profiles?
Click to expand...
No
Screenshot_2023-03-08-22-04-21.png
 
Also in regards to my sickness, it's definitely still here but it's getting better, hopefully in a couple days it'll clear up so i can accurately address everyone's contentions.

Also Duedate @Theglassman12 already agreed that Ichibe's Conceptual Manipulation will remain as Type 2, just for an entirely separate reason. He should update the OP itself with his new opinion since it seems like it's causing people to misunderstand what his intentions currently are.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
His entire body is reishi...

Regenerating his body from naught would entail exactly that, regenerating his reishi.

Deceived has informed me that he'll address everything when his illness fades, but I felt compelled to dispel this misinfo.
Click to expand...
Yeah sure, but the reishi that is his body isn't destroyed when he's hurt. No one's reshi is destroyed when they're hurt unless they're dealing with someone with EE. Because reishi is spiritual matter and otherwise acts like normal matter in Bleach. Unless someone is explicitly mentioned destroying the reishi that composes him, it makes no sense to assume its being destroyed.
 
Duedate8898 said:
Yeah sure, but the reishi that is his body isn't destroyed when he's hurt. No one's reshi is destroyed when they're hurt unless they're dealing with someone with EE. Because reishi is spiritual matter and otherwise acts like normal matter in Bleach. Unless someone is explicitly mentioned destroying the reishi that composes him, it makes no sense to assume its being destroyed.
Click to expand...
Quincy can destroy and manipulate reishi, which is what ichigo is.
 
Duedate8898 said:
Yeah sure, but the reishi that is his body isn't destroyed when he's hurt. No one's reshi is destroyed when they're hurt unless they're dealing with someone with EE. Because reishi is spiritual matter and otherwise acts like normal matter in Bleach. Unless someone is explicitly mentioned destroying the reishi that composes him, it makes no sense to assume its being destroyed.
Click to expand...
No lol

If your entire body is reduced to naught, and your body = reishi here, that means all the reishi was destroyed. It's super simple.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
No lol

If your entire body is reduced to naught, and your body = reishi here, that means all the reishi was destroyed. It's super simple.
Click to expand...
I agree if your entire body is reduced to nothingness its all gone. Who does that to Shaz? Where does it he say he can come back from complete erasure? Cause the scan I saw, just said if his body was destroyed. And a body can be destroyed without it being erased. Vaporization, butchery, disassembling the atoms. And as long as its not explicit with what exactly Shaz can come back from except for saying his body destroyed, then he should just get Mid-Godly because we have no reason to assume that all the reishi that made him up suddenly disappeared.
 
His CM type 2 remains for other reasons but only limited to the concept of black, which means his CM type 2 got nerfed.

So I don't think he agree with it remaining as like before.
 
No his cm2 isn't getting changed, my argument was never refuted nor addressed.
I already explained that him controlling the concept of black isn't the only CM2 concept that he can control.
he created the very concept of shikai, bankai and zanpakuto all of which are cm2 concepts of themselves.
not to mention literally naming everything in soul society.
Including countless phenomena
 
Duedate8898 said:
And I assume the hollow in question is Ikomikidomoe, who I agree should just have type 3 resistance to concept manipulation. Since what he does is just get his own name back as far as I know.
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He removes the name by controlling the black in the world. Name manipulation affect the complete reality itself. The scan where Yhwach name was removed literally shows that. I don't see a point in changing anything for CM type 2 definition.
 
Name manipulation is CM type 3, hell even DT and 3 other staff members point out that name manipulation is not CM 2. Why in the world would be manipulating the name of Ichigo's sword is CM type 2?

I agree that the concept black is CM type 2, no doubt, but theglassman12 does not agree with name manipulation being CM type 2, hence the reasoning to get changed, and it will get nerfed.
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
He removes the name by controlling the black in the world. Name manipulation affect the complete reality itself. The scan where Yhwach name was removed literally shows that. I don't see a point in changing anything for CM type 2 definition.
Click to expand...
You can do that with a type 3 concept, which is what the name of someone would fall under. Ichibe is fine with type 2 cause he has pretty blatant statements with like the black and stuff, but a persons name only defines themself. Ikomikidomoe's name isn't a type 2 concept but type 3.
 
Okay, that's all good and well but the potency of his CM is type 2.
Through his name manipulation, he was able to create type 2 concepts, so no
Which i already thoroughly explained
 
Hellscream said:
No his cm2 isn't getting changed, my argument was never refuted nor addressed.
I already explained that him controlling the concept of black isn't the only CM2 concept that he can control.
he created the very concept of shikai, bankai and zanpakuto all of which are cm2 concepts of themselves.
not to mention literally naming everything in soul society.
Including countless phenomena
Click to expand...
Also, no one really cares about your argument, since this is your damn response to my debunk. Hellscream, I absolutely won't even take your “argument” as even argument because as far as I can tell, only @Deceived3596 did a counterargument in this 4-page thread.

this became tiring.
 
Hellscream said:
Yeah no, it shouldn't get changed at all and i already gave plenty of proof and examples literally by using the CM explanation page itself.
It's CM2, even if you don't consider the fact that he controls the concept black by itself, all the other things he created are CM2 by itself.

3. Lesser Fundamental Concepts: Concepts that don't meet the same standards as Type 1 or Type 2, such as personal concepts that continue to govern the object in question, merely on a more specific scale, or concepts whose nature is not elaborated upon. Case-by-case specifications and explanations are necessary for such concepts and examples, and they are likely not going to meet the same standards for abilities such as High-Godly regeneration that other concepts may. Conceptual manipulation of this type can be resisted by those who resist sufficiently similar abilities, even if the exact mechanics may differ.

Like i said 10 times before

such as personal concepts that continue to govern the object in question, merely on a more specific scale

govern the object in question, merely on a specific scale this means that by changing the concept of that object, the concept itself remains unchanged.
This would be the same as changing the concept of a single soul, which is CM3, and altering all souls which is CM2.
Or in this case, altering the concept of a singular zanpakuto (which is CM3) and altering all of them is CM2.
Ichibei does the later and created the very concept of zanpakuto themselves.

2. Dependent Concepts: Such concepts are abstract and govern all reality within their area of influence. These concepts shape everything, and changing them would either require the alteration of every object of the concept or, if manipulated directly, change all objects of the concept alongside the concept itself. These concepts, however, exist simultaneously with and are bound by the object of the concept. In this way, an abstract dependent concept can be destroyed by destroying all objects of the concept, restored by re-making an object of a previously existent concept, or changed by changing all objects of the concept across reality. This, however, does not qualify for this form of conceptual manipulation, and is rather treated as a by-product of another action akin to a "domino effect". This type of conceptual manipulation can only be obtained if the abstract concept itself is changed directly, and not by indirect methods. For example, destroying humanity and thus "ending the concept of humanity" would not qualify, while directly "ending the concept of humanity" and thus destroying humanity would qualify.

Such concepts are abstract and govern all reality within their area of influence

These concepts shape everything, and changing them would either require the alteration of every object of the concept or, if manipulated directly, change all objects of the concept alongside the concept itself. These concepts, however, exist simultaneously with and are bound by the object of the concept

Ichibei created the very concept of zanpakuto itself. he didn't give individual names or only affects a single zanpakuto like what people are proposing / saying whatever. This has already been repeated 20 times given examples of the CM page itself.
Ichibei creating/ naming an individual zanpakuto would count as CM3, where as creating the very concept of zanpakuto themselves is CM2.
These CONCEPTS GOVERN ALL REALITY WITHIN THEIR AREA OF INFLUENCE
Literally read the CM page, they even give examples of what qualifies and what doesn't..

It's black on white CM2, nothing is getting changed about it.
Click to expand...
I ignored your post because for one, you don't even know what qualifies as a type 2 concept, and 2 because you didn't refute or address anything at all due to your lack of understanding of type 2 concepts.

And the post i made was never addressed nor refuted by anyone fyi.
 
Hellscream said:
I ignored your post because for one, you don't even know what qualifies as a type 2 concept, and 2 because you didn't refute or address anything at all due to your lack of understanding of type 2 concepts.
Click to expand...
Ignoring my post does not even give you a victory, because you don't even accept when theglassman12 did the same to you
 
ImmortalDread said:
Ignoring my post does not even give you a victory, because you don't even accept when theglassman12 did the same to you
Click to expand...
Buddy, i made a longer post later on can you even read?
after you "supposedly" debunked my statement (which you didn't) your comment has absolutely nothing to do with what i said, nor did it address anything which is why i just told you to stop at that point
The post i made later on was made to address everything everyone said about CM 2 concepts, and why it qualifies.
 
Hellscream said:
Yeah no, it shouldn't get changed at all and i already gave plenty of proof and examples literally by using the CM explanation page itself.
It's CM2, even if you don't consider the fact that he controls the concept black by itself, all the other things he created are CM2 by itself.

3. Lesser Fundamental Concepts: Concepts that don't meet the same standards as Type 1 or Type 2, such as personal concepts that continue to govern the object in question, merely on a more specific scale, or concepts whose nature is not elaborated upon. Case-by-case specifications and explanations are necessary for such concepts and examples, and they are likely not going to meet the same standards for abilities such as High-Godly regeneration that other concepts may. Conceptual manipulation of this type can be resisted by those who resist sufficiently similar abilities, even if the exact mechanics may differ.

Like i said 10 times before

such as personal concepts that continue to govern the object in question, merely on a more specific scale

govern the object in question, merely on a specific scale this means that by changing the concept of that object, the concept itself remains unchanged.
This would be the same as changing the concept of a single soul, which is CM3, and altering all souls which is CM2.
Or in this case, altering the concept of a singular zanpakuto (which is CM3) and altering all of them is CM2.
Ichibei does the later and created the very concept of zanpakuto themselves.

2. Dependent Concepts: Such concepts are abstract and govern all reality within their area of influence. These concepts shape everything, and changing them would either require the alteration of every object of the concept or, if manipulated directly, change all objects of the concept alongside the concept itself. These concepts, however, exist simultaneously with and are bound by the object of the concept. In this way, an abstract dependent concept can be destroyed by destroying all objects of the concept, restored by re-making an object of a previously existent concept, or changed by changing all objects of the concept across reality. This, however, does not qualify for this form of conceptual manipulation, and is rather treated as a by-product of another action akin to a "domino effect". This type of conceptual manipulation can only be obtained if the abstract concept itself is changed directly, and not by indirect methods. For example, destroying humanity and thus "ending the concept of humanity" would not qualify, while directly "ending the concept of humanity" and thus destroying humanity would qualify.

Such concepts are abstract and govern all reality within their area of influence

These concepts shape everything, and changing them would either require the alteration of every object of the concept or, if manipulated directly, change all objects of the concept alongside the concept itself. These concepts, however, exist simultaneously with and are bound by the object of the concept

Ichibei created the very concept of zanpakuto itself. he didn't give individual names or only affects a single zanpakuto like what people are proposing / saying whatever. This has already been repeated 20 times given examples of the CM page itself.
Ichibei creating/ naming an individual zanpakuto would count as CM3, where as creating the very concept of zanpakuto themselves is CM2.
These CONCEPTS GOVERN ALL REALITY WITHIN THEIR AREA OF INFLUENCE
Literally read the CM page, they even give examples of what qualifies and what doesn't..

It's black on white CM2, nothing is getting changed about it.
Click to expand...
???
I literally quoted it 1 minute ago
 
Duedate8898 said:
You can do that with a type 3 concept, which is what the name of someone would fall under. Ichibe is fine with type 2 cause he has pretty blatant statements with like the black and stuff, but a persons name only defines themself. Ikomikidomoe's name isn't a type 2 concept but type 3.
Click to expand...
What about Ichibei naming all the countless phenomenon in Soul Society?
 
Duedate8898 said:
Yeah sure, but the reishi that is his body isn't destroyed when he's hurt. No one's reshi is destroyed when they're hurt unless they're dealing with someone with EE. Because reishi is spiritual matter and otherwise acts like normal matter in Bleach. Unless someone is explicitly mentioned destroying the reishi that composes him, it makes no sense to assume its being destroyed.
Click to expand...
At first he had a imagined body and later changed it to reishi. So we know he can exists without a reishi body or a imagined body
 
Duedate8898 said:
I agree if your entire body is reduced to nothingness its all gone. Who does that to Shaz? Where does it he say he can come back from complete erasure? Cause the scan I saw, just said if his body was destroyed. And a body can be destroyed without it being erased. Vaporization, butchery, disassembling the atoms. And as long as its not explicit with what exactly Shaz can come back from except for saying his body destroyed, then he should just get Mid-Godly because we have no reason to assume that all the reishi that made him up suddenly disappeared.
Click to expand...
Shaz replaces his ENTIRE body. And you agree that the body is reishi, so if it’s the ENTIRE body, then it’s ALL of the reishi that comprises him.
 
Duedate8898 said:
You can do that with a type 3 concept, which is what the name of someone would fall under. Ichibe is fine with type 2 cause he has pretty blatant statements with like the black and stuff, but a persons name only defines themself. Ikomikidomoe's name isn't a type 2 concept but type 3.
Click to expand...
What i am saying it's not limited to black. It's still name manipulation using concepts of darkness/black.
 
CM type 2 is only limited to the concept of black, the rest (name manipulation) is CM type 3.
 
He never manipulated them. He never manipulate Bankai where he effects all bankai in reality
 
No, his last speech actually contradicted this. He only created the names of said existed concepts which is CM type 3.

Hell, till now he never show anything to manipulate the concepts in the whole show rather only name manipulation.
 
Can you both stop???, this back and forth is the most pointless thing i have seen over the years on the wiki
 
ImmortalDread said:
No, his last speech actually contradicted this. He only created the names of said existed concepts which is CM type 3.

Hell, till now he never show anything to manipulate the concepts in the whole show rather only name manipulation.
Click to expand...
irrelevant comment
 
Vietthai96 said:
Can you both stop???, this back and forth is the most pointless thing i have seen over the years on the wiki
Click to expand...
No it's not, it's not my fault that people can't understand my comments and don't know what CM type 2 is, despite trying to argue in order to downgrade it.
Literally none of my points were addressed by anyone, it's clear cut CM2.
 
And why would this serve as CM type 2? In which bubble speech he said he created concepts of them?
 
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