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Bleach high godly and concept hax

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ImmortalDread said:
And why would this serve as CM type 2? In which bubble speech he said he created concepts of them?
Click to expand...
Are you trolling?
He literally said he created the names, the names being concepts. dude literally created the names of everything in soul society on panel.
After creating those concepts he literally says "any zanpakuto that gets made he automatically knows" obviously showing that he created the very concept, and that he has control over it.
 
ImmortalDread said:
And why would this serve as CM type 2? In which bubble speech he said he created concepts of them?
Click to expand...
Well, the scan did said: i was the first to name all phenomena that occur in the Soul Society, i know the name of all Zanpakuto

So pratically, he named all phenomena, defined them and the name of all zanpakuto. Individual's Zanpakuto is Type 3, however the feat in the scan is "named" all Zanpakuto, that Type 2's feat
 
I am not positing any constraints on CM type 2. Rather, I am inquiring as to the genesis of the underlying concepts, which remains unclear from the available information. While the nomenclature may have been coined by the individual in question, it is not necessarily indicative of originality of the concepts themselves.

It is important to distinguish between terminology and substantive concepts. The mere attribution of a name does not necessarily imply authorship of the underlying principles. Hence, I contend that I could ascribe a label to a given concept, yet still not wield it with the same efficacy as CM 2. This constitutes the basis of my argument.
 
"Before the concept of bankai existed in the world" does not sound like a supporting evidence right now. So ya, I still disagree
 
ImmortalDread said:
I am not positing any constraints on CM type 2. Rather, I am inquiring as to the genesis of the underlying concepts, which remains unclear from the available information. While the nomenclature may have been coined by the individual in question, it is not necessarily indicative of originality of the concepts themselves.

It is important to distinguish between terminology and substantive concepts. The mere attribution of a name does not necessarily imply authorship of the underlying principles. Hence, I contend that I could ascribe a label to a given concept, yet still not wield it with the same efficacy as CM 2. This constitutes the basis of my argument.
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Except for the fact that his very power is the power to give and take away names and things, which includes the things such as type 2 concepts, those said names holding power, altering the thing that gets affected by it. Ichibei creating the name "zanpakuto" gave them their meaning. zanpakuto literally meaning "Soul-cutter sword" which is what they do.
Names in general are concepts themselves, and being able to manipulate such a thing gives them obvious control over the said concept.
Which in this case, creating the concept of zanpakuto is CM2.
 
And a being that controls CM2 concepts, can automatically affect CM3 concepts, just saying
This doesn't debunk anything, nor does it remove the fact that ichibei can create CM2 concepts.
 
ImmortalDread said:
Literally the panel you just showed proved my damn premise, he did not even create the concept of bankai.
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Concepts of Bankai didn't Existed in the World which backs up Ichibe creating concepts of Bankai into the world itself. Show me where he said he didn't created it. When he explained things to Renji he literally states bankai and shikai are created by him.
 
Hellscream said:
And a being that controls CM2 concepts, can automatically affect CM3 concepts, just saying
This doesn't debunk anything, nor does it remove the fact that ichibei can create CM2 concepts.
Click to expand...
Based on which evidence is this?
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
Concepts of Bankai didn't Existed in the World which backs up Ichibe creating concepts of Bankai into the world itself. Show me where he said he didn't created it. When he explained things to Renji he literally states bankai and shikai are created by him.
Click to expand...
It said concept. Lol
 
Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye said:
Ichibei’s ink is “black” itself. So I don’t really see the nerf since he uses black with the name manipulation.
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Ya which I agree. The black is CM type 2 as it seems to effects the totality of it. No issues with this. But the names he is effecting is CM type 3.
 
ImmortalDread said:
Based on which evidence is this?
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Because of how concepts work????
If you can manipulate the entirety of the concept of apples, and turn them into the concept of pears which is CM2, then you can automatically alter the concept of a single apple, and turn it into a pear (which is CM3)
That's how concepts work..
Otherwise CM type 1 wouldn't be more potent than CM type 2, and CM type 2 wouldn't be more potent than CM type 3
 
Hellscream said:
Because of how concepts work????
If you can manipulate the entirety of the concept of apples, and turn them into the concept of pears which is CM2, then you can automatically alter the concept of a single apple, and turn it into a pear.
That's how concepts work..
Otherwise CM type 1 wouldn't be more potent than CM type 2, and CM type 2 wouldn't be more potent than CM type 3
Click to expand...
Nowhere it is stated in the page. So your reasoning without evidences is invalid.

Hell, even in the limitation it is stated against that.
 
Okay, just drop it at this point you failed to refute, nor did you ever address anything
Feel free to make a Q&A whether CM2 can automatically control CM3 or not
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
That's what I said and scans are saying all phenomena and names are given by Ichibe. Then tell me who created concepts of Bankai to the world ?
Click to expand...
You said concepts. Look at what you said mate.

Also, ichibi is one who created names of bankai, therefore CM type 3, but the scan implies smth else.
 
You've been grinded up like mincemeat.
You haven't addressed a single point, i provided proof of everything i said multiple times.
You're spouting nonsense, and literally don't even know what you're talking about.

Do some research behind conceptual manipulation first, then continue or finally understand why it's CM2
 
Hellscream said:
Yeah no, it shouldn't get changed at all and i already gave plenty of proof and examples literally by using the CM explanation page itself.
It's CM2, even if you don't consider the fact that he controls the concept black by itself, all the other things he created are CM2 by itself.

3. Lesser Fundamental Concepts: Concepts that don't meet the same standards as Type 1 or Type 2, such as personal concepts that continue to govern the object in question, merely on a more specific scale, or concepts whose nature is not elaborated upon. Case-by-case specifications and explanations are necessary for such concepts and examples, and they are likely not going to meet the same standards for abilities such as High-Godly regeneration that other concepts may. Conceptual manipulation of this type can be resisted by those who resist sufficiently similar abilities, even if the exact mechanics may differ.

Like i said 10 times before

such as personal concepts that continue to govern the object in question, merely on a more specific scale

govern the object in question, merely on a specific scale this means that by changing the concept of that object, the concept itself remains unchanged.
This would be the same as changing the concept of a single soul, which is CM3, and altering all souls which is CM2.
Or in this case, altering the concept of a singular zanpakuto (which is CM3) and altering all of them is CM2.
Ichibei does the later and created the very concept of zanpakuto themselves.

2. Dependent Concepts: Such concepts are abstract and govern all reality within their area of influence. These concepts shape everything, and changing them would either require the alteration of every object of the concept or, if manipulated directly, change all objects of the concept alongside the concept itself. These concepts, however, exist simultaneously with and are bound by the object of the concept. In this way, an abstract dependent concept can be destroyed by destroying all objects of the concept, restored by re-making an object of a previously existent concept, or changed by changing all objects of the concept across reality. This, however, does not qualify for this form of conceptual manipulation, and is rather treated as a by-product of another action akin to a "domino effect". This type of conceptual manipulation can only be obtained if the abstract concept itself is changed directly, and not by indirect methods. For example, destroying humanity and thus "ending the concept of humanity" would not qualify, while directly "ending the concept of humanity" and thus destroying humanity would qualify.

Such concepts are abstract and govern all reality within their area of influence

These concepts shape everything, and changing them would either require the alteration of every object of the concept or, if manipulated directly, change all objects of the concept alongside the concept itself. These concepts, however, exist simultaneously with and are bound by the object of the concept

Ichibei created the very concept of zanpakuto itself. he didn't give individual names or only affects a single zanpakuto like what people are proposing / saying whatever. This has already been repeated 20 times given examples of the CM page itself.
Ichibei creating/ naming an individual zanpakuto would count as CM3, where as creating the very concept of zanpakuto themselves is CM2.
These CONCEPTS GOVERN ALL REALITY WITHIN THEIR AREA OF INFLUENCE
Literally read the CM page, they even give examples of what qualifies and what doesn't..

It's black on white CM2, nothing is getting changed about it.
Click to expand...
For any staff that wants to know why Ichibei has CM2, this is the reasoning.
 
Hellscream said:
You've been grinded up like mincemeat.
You haven't addressed a single point, i provided proof of everything i said multiple times.
You're spouting nonsense, and literally don't even know what you're talking about.

Do some research behind conceptual manipulation first, then continue or finally understand why it's CM2
Click to expand...
You literally did not provide any evidence for the recent argument wha?
 
ImmortalDread said:
Ya which I agree. The black is CM type 2 as it seems to effects the totality of it. No issues with this. But the names he is effecting is CM type 3.
Click to expand...
So for example when he covers you with ink which has the innate effect of losing your name thus losing your power doesn’t this mean this a CM 2? This is just the ink which is agreed to be CM 2.
 
ImmortalDread said:
No, I asked why would a character that has CM type 2 necessarily gets automatically type 3 which goes the limitations of CM that is stated in that page.
Click to expand...
Because of how concepts work..
Affecting a CM2 concepts is inherently also CM3, but just on a scale that affects the entire concept, as opposed to a single object of the said concept.

Like CM1, inherently affects CM2, and CM3, CM2 inherently affects CM3, and CM3, can't affect CM2 or CM1
 
Hellscream said:
Because of how concepts work..
Affecting a CM2 concepts is inherently also CM3, but just on a scale that affects the entire concept, as opposed to a single object of the said concept.
Click to expand...
Where did it state this in the page? The limitations section of CM goes against what you actually stated.
 
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