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Blazblue AP Revision

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ShiroyashaGinSan

ShiroyashaGinSan

VS Battles
Retired
7,164
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XBlaze Characters Downgrade

So basically, XBlaze characters are currently 8-B by Drei's earthquake feat. The problem is, because of the Earthquake Revision, that feat should be moot because of the fact that it only shook around the district's sewers.

I think the tier should be 9-A.

All of the 8-B characters are laughably above Akio who can pick up electrical tower and Goro who can easily pulverize walls at the size larger than human being. The protagonists needed to shield Toya's house because the villains can severely damage it too. And also shaking the entire district sewers shouldn't be lower than 9-A just by eye-ball. Kuon is able to easily violently fragmentate the electric tower also.

Low 7-B Downgrade
Assumption was wrong, change in weight, recalc and it's High 7-C.

5-A Blazblue. Agai
This calc says that Izanami feat should be 5-A.

Both sides are going hard with their arguments. I'm going to say neutral. At least Low 5-B, likely 5-A is fine for me .

Votes

5-A: Zep, DMUA

Low 5-B: Glass, Red

At least Low 5-B, likely 5-A: Shiro, Ion

I'm not going to discuss this any further since I'm very tired this past few days. So it's free to you guys.
 
The one made by Risci. Basically saying that unless the range of the quake is reasonable to he an earthquake, it ain't earthquake.
 
so since the magnitude was so weak in comparison to real earthquakes, it shouldn't be counted. Gotcha, 9-A Xblaze seems fine.
 
The feat should be completely 5-A. It's clear that arcsys doesn't know how to calc feats properly, since they're a gaming company and not a vs site, Izanami is literally one of the top tiers of the verse, and saying that the black beast's best feat is "destroying the planet" doesn't invalidate 5-A at all considering how many earth busts are 5-A. ****, even moon/continent destruction can get 5-A. For example:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/God_of_Darkness

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Kefka_Palazzo

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Dark_Gaia

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Date_Masamune
 
Could you actually try to argue Blazblue without resorting to comparing other series? Cause you're still not understanding a word I'm saying. Izanami is also dwarfed by power from the Black beast alone. Their version of the calc, which Kokonoe doesn't even disprove whatsoever btw, don't know why you keep ignoring the fact that a literal SCIENTIST is agreeing with Izanami's claims, is more consistent with the scaling than this recalc. The Black Beast is superior to everyone else in the verse. Having a Low 5-B calc is more accurate to the scaling when the absolute most powerful being in the verse when you don't include the reality warping gods themselves, has 2 5-B statements at best. Her being stronger than the Black Beast itself from this recalc makes no sense. Especially when btw, unlike those 4 characters that have 5-A feats, we never see the Black Beast destroy the planet. So stop with this headcanon argument cause that's what you're boiling it down to. Arguing it COULD be on that level instead of it actually being on that level.
 
Planet destruction ranges anywhere from High 6-A to 5-A. so by all means, go ahead and downgrade the verse. You trying to pass off the black beast as this one specific thing, because it's backed up by one specific calc, which you try to justify by using the black beast, is just circular logic, and it's pretty obvious that you're chasing what YOU want rather than what's correct.

There is no other feat that contradicts this scaling.

The statements do not contradict this scaling.

The Low 5-B calc is wrong no matter which way you slice it. Either try and downgrade them fully or just stop with this "no, it's your fault because you don't understand my argument" like you've done in both blazblue threads i've had to debate you on.
 
I guess I have to bring this up here

"The highest non-gag feat in the verse is the Black Beast destroying the entire planet. Maybe actually TRY to do some research on this series before you yourself try to make assumptions on which feat is supposed to be the strongest. Jeez what a massive assumption you did there."

The strongest feats in the verse are 2-A tho :/

Nice to assume that I haven't done research. I've played through every game in the series and, not to brag or anything, but I'm not a dumbass. I understand how the verse works.

"Seems you didn't bother reading the part where I said the original calc is consistent with the power levels of this verse as opposed to this Inverse square law version of the calc."

There are unironically more 5-A feats, and there's a single Low 5-B calc. You REALLY do not want to go down this road.

"Enlighten me how me saying this VERSION of the calc is an outlier as opposed to the original version since the Black Beast feat is still superior to the calc. The ORIGINAL calc is consistent with what the strongest feat in the series is, which is the Black Beast feat. this version isn't cause it's way too strong."

The Original calc has nothing to be consistent with. It's statements that range from life wiping to 5-A. There is nothing, literally NOTHING, saying that Low 5-B is more accurate for anything that isn't just lowball for lowball's sake.
 
firstly downgrade is fine

The thing is glass is mentioning izanami's explosion if yields that results will wack the AP scaling. Highest feat is 2-A cuz god tiers and hax not the AP of this. Izanami is weaker than the black beast and its planetary feat is low 5-B. It wacks the scaling overall for anyone weaker than the black beast
 
TISSG7Redgrave said:
its planetary feat is low 5-B
Click to expand...
Citation needed, cause all we have is a generic world ending statement that doesn't really prove or disprove anything.
 
TISSG7Redgrave said:
firstly downgrade is fine
The thing is glass is mentioning izanami's explosion if yields that results will wack the AP scaling. Highest feat is 2-A cuz god tiers and hax not the AP of this. Izanami is weaker than the black beast and its planetary feat is low 5-B. It wacks the scaling overall for anyone weaker than the black beast
Click to expand...
No it's not. Its planetary feat has no tiering and it's placed at Low 5-B due to being stronger than Izanami's feat. Even says it on its page.

"In one of Ragna's bad endings, in which he lost control of the Black Beast, it destroyed the entire world, though the details of this occurrence are unknown"
 
Nice strawman you got there, cause that's not what I was arguing. I said throughout this entire discussion that the Black Beast has 5-B feats. Not that it's only Low 5-B at best.

Planet destruction range doesn't mean anything to a feat that we do not see on screen. No matter how many times you're gonna bring this up, it does not apply to an offscreen feat that we can't even calc. Yeah, the calc that you're trying to redo for the sake of it being accurate when it's not and completely

> Either try and downgrade them fully or just stop with this "no, it's your fault because you don't understand my argument" like you've done in both blazblue threads i've had to debate you on.

Oh really, you mean the thread where your only argument in the entire thread is just "Oh it's not actual light" and didn't remotely back it up with any scans that would contradict one of the Izayoi's most fundamental functions. Where in that entire discussion was I ever only saying that you don't understant my argument? Me and Shiro gave you rebuttals to your barebones argument and you didn't bother to back the claim up.

The god tiers that can warp reality on a whim has nothing to do with the playable characters and the Black Beast itself. Maybe pay attention to what we're arguing about instead of cherry picking my points. Also considering your argument to a weapon's most basic thing to do is so barebones that anyone can debunk it, I'd beg to differ that you'd know how the verse works.

Ok and what's your point on the 5-A stuff from Kokonoe and Makoto? That cause there's apparently more feats that happen to be in that range that it doesn't make it an outlier? Again, unless the Black Beast has an onscreen showing of destroying the planet, it's not reliable for weaker characters to be stronger than a monster that's shown numerous times to be far greater than everything else in the series.

Yeah the statement where Kokonoe blatantly says that the Black Beast destroyed the entire planet is apparently in the life wiping range
 
On that note, that scan should really be added to its page, and world should be changed to say planet since kokonoe is that blatant about it.
 
Theglassman12 said:
Again, unless the Black Beast has an onscreen showing of destroying the planet, it's not reliable for weaker characters to be stronger than a monster that's shown numerous times to be far greater than everything else in the series.
Click to expand...
Us never seeing it onscreen doesn't prove that it's purely GBE any more than it proves that 5-A is consistent. It's just a statement that could mean plenty of things. Depending on what they mean by "destroyed", that can indeed also include the entire surface being burned off and no survivors. You can take a statement like this plenty of places that vary greatly in reasonability and tiering.

Meanwhile, Hades' calc is just a straight up number based on how much energy it would take to atomize the moon from hundreds of thousands of kilometers away with an omnidirectional blast, taking notable effort on her part. That's another thing: we don't really know how casual The Black Beast's feat would be either, so that's another thing that neither backs up nor contradicts the calc.
 
@Zephyros would be nice if it were 5-A if again, we actually see the planet's destruction in the first place. Cause we don't have anything more than just statements from it.

@DMUA Ever heard of a reasonable assumption? A planet being stated to be destroyed doesn't just vary to different tiers. By that logic a lot of verses would be either High 6-A or 5-A just because "Oh, we could interpret it in these different ways if we never see it onscreen" That's again headcanon AF and leads to a lot of baseless assumptions rather than what's there.
 
Reasonable assumptions are nice, but what's better is evidence in reaching a further conclusion such as "This feat is an outlier"

Also, there are verses involving world destruction that would be considered High 6-A from how many details we're given, usually depending on if it actually lines up with what we see

The Beast (InFAMOUS) "consumes the world" in the future and we don't treat that as a 5-B feat for a reason. Neither should we treat The Black Beast's feat as purely 5-B, thereby Hades' calc is an outlier, especially considering he isn't even being rated as 5-B from said feat as of now because it's too vague to judge.

You're using an offscreen, unknown effort, unknown conditions feat we don't even use for their current tier to say a high effort feat with specified conditions must be inconsistent and screws up the scaling, which it really doesn't.
 
> Unknown condition.

Uhh, I literally linked a scan where Kokonoe flat out says that the Black Beast destroyed the entire planet. And we do use it cause that's where the barrier for the power levels reach. The Black Beast should be flat out 5-B. The Low 5-B version of the calc again is consistent cause it's from a character weaker than a 5-B being.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@Zephyros would be nice if it were 5-A if again, we actually see the planet's destruction in the first place. Cause we don't have anything more than just statements from it.
@DMUA Ever heard of a reasonable assumption? A planet being stated to be destroyed doesn't just vary to different tiers. By that logic a lot of verses would be either High 6-A or 5-A just because "Oh, we could interpret it in these different ways if we never see it onscreen" That's again headcanon AF and leads to a lot of baseless assumptions rather than what's there.
Click to expand...
the difference of course is that we have a 5-A calc that is there
 
Theglassman12 said:
Uhh, I literally linked a scan where Kokonoe flat out says that the Black Beast destroyed the entire planet.
Click to expand...
Did it state the amount of effort, the method, how far the pieces split?

All of these details are pretty important to know consistency and how the data lines up, but we don't exactly get that. All we know is the planet was destroyed. Could have been torn apart in a way that doesn't overpower GBE, it could have overpowered GBE so hard the KE was 5-A. You don't really have solid data to be contradicted.

Besides, if this feat is actually an outlier, I don't really know if we should keep Low 5-B off Hades giving a flawed measurement not accounting for an entire physical law and how it would play into the energy requirement.
 
@Zephyros 5-A calc from the Black Beast, not from Izanami. Do you understand what I'm even saying?

@DMUA So again, you're boiling it down to be headcanon logic of "Oh it could be this strong instead so it can't make this version of the calc an outlier".

Pretty sure the calculation that she made that wasn't even called a bluff by a literal scientist shouldn't be considered flawed if not even Kokonoe called her bullshit and agreed with her statements on how strong the atomization would yield.
 
Can somebody please summarise the arguments here in an as unbiased and easily understood manner as possible, so I might be able to help out?
 
Basically, they are arguing about if Inverse square law can be applied to the Izanami's feat. DMUA and Zep consider it a yes since it is an explosive energy but Glass and Red opposes it by saying that it's quantum destabilization aka atomization only which is further supported by Izanami herself with her given joules.
 
Okay. Thanks. That is not enough information for me to be of help though.
 
for the record, as i stated in the original calc, quantum destabilization would be sub-atomization.

Explosions can atomize anyway, so that's a non-factor.

The Black Beast has no 5-A calc. That literally cannot be used to confirm or deny anything. You saying that it has to cap out at 5-B is a headcanon because you have nothing supporting it.

Also, Izanami's math isn't even correct. The energy needed to atomize the earth and moon is 3.15 x 10^31 joules, over three times as much as what she stated. And once again, that doesn't count all the extraneous energy lost in the explosion. 10^31 joules wouldn't "atomize everything in a 400,000 kilometer radius" as she states. Has it not occurred to you that maybe, JUST MAYBE, the writers of one of the most infamously convoluted stories didn't their math properly?

It's not an exxageration. There is literally no scenario or interpretation where Izanami's math is correct. And again, if you use Kokonoe's statement as you seem to be so fond of, that would be sub-atomization, which would be Low 4-C.

Hades says that the blast will atomize everything, but that's directly contradicted by Kokonoe's own statement which indicates sub-atomization. Why should we trust one over the other? Well, Izanami is smart and manipulative, but to what extent is mostly unknown. She's a planner, but her scientific knowledge is iffy.

In comparison?

Kokonoe is the smartest character in the verse. She's an expert on both science and magic and is known to be one of the top scientists, if not THE top. She was able to make Tager into the cyborg he is today, she literally uses science and tools as weapons to fight, she can do shit like make infinite gravity machines, she's the one who teaches people in the post-gag reels, and she literally builds shit that can rival the literal god-tiers of the verse like Amaterasu and Takamagahara.

I chose to use 5-A because it was the more consistent value. But if you REALLY want to go the route of taking Kokonoe's word as gospel, you'll either have to make them tier 4 or downgrade them for the feat being an outlier.

There is no reasonable interpretation here where 5-A is not the best choice, and you continuing to be hostile to everyone, accusing them of headcanoning while doing the exact same thing yourself, is not helping your case.

It's like DUMA said, "You're using an offscreen, unknown effort, unknown conditions feat we don't even use for their current tier to say a high effort feat with specified conditions must be inconsistent and screws up the scaling, which it really doesn't."
 
@Zephyros explain to me how quantic destruction equates to sub atomization when they aren't the same type of destruction?

Again, she did not say explosion, I don't know why you keep on saying that when she just said explosive energy.

The two statements of it destroying the planet is not headcanon. That's actual proof in the game we got. Saying that it COULD reach 5-A is mere headcanon since we never have any onscreen proof of that.

Ok, what does the writers being the ones that made a complicated story have anything to do with the calc? That's not remotely an argument.

First you said it was High 5-A, now you're saying it's Low 4-C? Which one is it cause you're just throwing random levels for the sake of it.

You don't need to lecture to me on what Kokonoe can do in the series. As if the person who's been one of the main people responsible for revising the entire verse needs a rundown of what one of the characters do. Also you keep forgetting the one thing in that entire conversation. Kokonoe did not call Izanami bluff with her statement on how strong it is, hell she was warning Ragna about it being that strong. If a literal scientist thinks that this person you claim doesn't know how strong explosive energies are, does not disagree with her claim, MAYBE that's a sign that Izanami wasn't lying to begin with.

I'm taking Kokonoe's words on her not disagreeing with Izanami's claim on how strong it is cause it's proof that she wasn't lying. If she was lying Kokonoe would've called her out on that.

I seriously would LOVE to know what your definition of being overly hostile is, cause throughout this and the other thread that you're so insistent on bringing up, I have never once attacked you in the slightest. Maybe actually try to argue in this discussion without resorting to making false accusations.
 
"As if the person who's been one of the main people responsible for revising the entire verse needs a rundown of what one of the characters do."

Good job tooting your own horn.

Anyway, it's not headcanon because there's actual math involved done by people who actually know how to do math, not taking in-verse statemetns that have been proven wrong at face value and refusing to believe anything higher when those same statements still allow for it. Yknow what is headcanon? Saying that it CAN'T reach 5-A. You're saying the same thing over and over again without changing any argument and expecting to get a different result.

https://www.deviantart.com/kamizephyr/art/Zephyr-Does-a-Calc-Izanami-is-Bad-at-Math-818321177

Sub-Atomization for the earth and moon. 5.5e40 joules. Just barely into Low 4-C. You're welcome.

Nothing you have said has actually disproven or properly rejected anything.
 
Like you're one to talk Mr. I know how the verse works.

Right, the math that's done for a feat that's NOT the Black Beast's feat, but was done for someone that's not remotely close to the Black Beast's level. So by that logic should we take every single statement in fiction of destroying the planet as a 5-A feat by default if we never see the actual explosion on screen? Cause that's the whole logic you're going for.

Why did you bother doing the calc in Deviantart of all places? Rather than just use the blog you already made?

You still didn't answer my question. Why is Quantic destruction automatically assumed to be sub atomization when they aren't remotely the same type of destruction.
 
It's almost like I know how the verse works too, so you can quit with the condescension.

Nice strawman. It means the black beast's feat isn't contradictory. The logic is "planetary destruction has a massive range because of all the different ways it can be achieved, which means that saying the black beast caps out at 5-B is incorrect". I.E. You cannot use the Black beast to try and discredit this feat. That is a non-factor, and you repeating it is completely useless to your argument. It is, as you say, headcanon.

Because it includes the Low 4-C version that you seemed so eager to find the source of. The version I dind't bother including for obvious reasons.

Ask DMUA, not me. He confirmed it when i asked. Not that it matters here since it's not the argument being used, but whatever. I thought I'd mention it.
 
quantum >>> macro quantum >>> subatomic >>> atomic.

"quantic strings make up particles, particles make up atoms."

-DMUA and also some scientist guy probably
 
Where does the statements of it destroying the entire planet NOT equate to it being a blatant 5-B feat? Cause that's how we treat like every type of statements out there when characters are stated to destroy the planet or country or whatever.

Soooo why did you do it in Deviantart? Again you could've just done the calc here instead.

Quantum strings (1-D strings) are not the same as freaking protons and neutrons. They're completely different in terms of size, Using Subatomic calculations for something that's not remotely close to being as big as a subatomic particle makes no sense.
 
Theglassman12 said:
Where does the statements of it destroying the entire planet NOT equate to it being a blatant 5-B feat? Cause that's how we treat like every type of statements out there when characters are stated to destroy the planet or country or whatever.
Soooo why did you do it in Deviantart? Again you could've just done the calc here instead.

Quantum strings (1-D strings) are not the same as freaking protons and neutrons. They're completely different in terms of size, Using Subatomic calculations for something that's not remotely close to being as big as a subatomic particle makes no sense.
Click to expand...
Yes

Requiem destroys the planet.

You know what else it destroys?

THE MOON.

Something you clearly must have forgotten about, because Requiem's feat is destruction of the earth AND the moon. So you saying that the Black Beast caps out at destorying the planet wouldn't even be accurate. If requiem only would have atomized the planet, then we wouldn't need to have this conversation at all. But the moon throws that entire issue out the window.

I am a DA writer first, and a VS Wiki user second. ultimately, i post calcs on that site first before moving them to here.

"Using Subatomic calculations for something that's not remotely close to being as big as a subatomic particle makes no sense."

If that's the case then we can't very well use atomization can we
 
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