• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Avengers: EMH Big Revisions (No More Tier 5)

784
587
Issue #1:
Currently, almost every character in Earth's Mightiest Heroes scales to High 5-A. The High-5-A comes from Galactus' feat, and the scaling comes from Thor hurting him. But I don't see why anyone should scale to Galactus at all. The problem is that while Thor did indeed hurt/stagger Galactus, we have no reason to assume that this Galactus is as strong as the one who performed the High 5-A feat. Iron Man, when analyzing Galactus, says that his energy levels are dropping. When Galactus rebuilt the machines created by his Heralds, Iron Man said that it cost him precious energy and that's why he needs Heralds.

This means that the Galactus at the end of the episode (when Thor hit him) is heavily drained of energy and thus much weaker than the Galactus at the beginning of the episode. And because of that, we can't scale Thor's attack to a feat Galactus did via unknown means and with unknown energy.

Issue #2:
A Tier 5 supporting feat seems to be Graviton controlling Earth's gravity. For one, there is no evidence given on the profiles for this. Furthermore, we have no reason to believe he is capable of wielding the entirety of that power at once. In fact, we know he doesn't, because the only changes in gravity are localized around him. When he fights the Avengers, the gravity outside the fight is completely normal. He is manipulating all of Earth's gravity at once, so he wouldn't scale to Low 5-B just because he can control gravity.

Issue #3:
The other thing on the profiles I could find that is used as support for Tier 5 is Hulk being confident he could survive a bomb capable of destroying the planet. While I'll admit this is more of a solid basis for scaling than the previous two, I still have a couple of issues with it. The first is that it's just said that the blast radius would be the entire Earth, not that it would destroy the planet. As far as I know, that's just High 6-A. The second is that, to me, this seems more like comedic overconfidence from the Hulk than any serious statement about his power.'

---- ⬇️ Secondary Concerns ⬇️ ---

Issue #4:
Ok this one is mostly nitpicking. I don't like the High 6-C calc. I don't think the explosions are actually that size, its just a visual choice to illustrate that the Earth is being bombarded. There is no indication in the story that dozens of extinction level explosions are constantly going off across the planet, the most we get is that the most powerful laser on the ship would destroy New York City.

Issue #5:
Because Marvel Comics operates under the logic of "everyone can fight everyone," VSBW has more stringent standards for scaling characters to one another than other verses. I believe this idea should be applied to EMH as well. All characters are capable of fighting one another, and you have characters like Hawkeye with no powers whatsoever who are scaled to High 5-A using the same logic the wiki seeks to avoid in Marvel Comics. I don't think merely staggering another, or surviving casual attacks from powerful villains, just be grounds for scaling in EMH just like it isn't in the comics. If a character's feats wouldn't be enough to scale them to a stronger character in the comics, they shouldn't be enough to scale in EMH.

Issue #6:
Upgrade this time? I think that Odinforce Loki, and Odin if he were to get a profile, could get 2-C. The realms are not limited to planets are are probably entire universes, and we have two statements of characters being able to destroy them. I don't think any character should necessarily scale to this, as no one was able to truly stand up against Loki. The scaling from Loki shouldn't be an issue as no one really does anyway (He is listed as "At least High 5-A, likely far higher" and is the only character to have that rating).


Proposal:
  1. Remove any and all scaling to Galactus, and change his tiering to "Varies up to High 5-A"
  2. Return all characters tiering to the next highest calc (High 6-C). Personally, I'd prefer it not being the High 6-C calc, but I'm less strongly opposed to that than I am to the Tier 5 stuff.
  3. Impose stricter requirements on scaling, similar to the standards required for Marvel Comics. Characters who no longer make the cut to scale to Hulk/Thor tier characters should be given a new calc to scale to. And, potentially, as a compromise, a "possibly" rating.
  4. Odinforce Loki should be upgraded to either "2-C" or "Likely 2-C." Odin should potentially get a profile with this rating as well.
 
Last edited:
Agree with removing the scaling to the Galactus’s planet bust, though I disagree with the argument against the High 6-C calc. That just seems like an argument incredulity.

Aside from the High 6-C feat these seem like the remaining notable feats/statements:
Somewhere in Tier 6 seems fine for now.

Disagree with imposing stricter scaling standards. The reason why comics need their own powerscaling rules is because there’s decades upon decades of inconsistencies. A 2 season TV show set in an alternate universe obviously doesn’t have the same issues, there’s no real reason to be as strict about scaling.

Agree with 2-C Odinforce Loki and Odin.
 
Last edited:
Mav's thoughts on the OP make sense.

But what doesn't make sense is why Doctor Doom's EMH version doesn't have a profile, dude was the best villain on the show and stomped the Avengers.
 
He would have been hungry, but not as hungry. Building his machine took a lot out of him, with Iron Man saying that's why he needs his Heralds. When he destroyed the Skrull homeworld, the Heralds would have made the machine so he wouldn't have lost that precious energy. The wording of "precious" and "needs" implies that this was a very significant energy drain, something out of the ordinary. This means he still would've been weaker than he was at the Skrull Homeworld.
 
I'd be fine with High 6-C in that case. Thor's storm feat I think is only Environmental Destruction I think, and I'm iffy on scaling people to Korvac because his power seems to very drastically depending on mental state. Whenever the Avengers got an upper hand on him, he'd get up set and easily overpower them.
 
He would have been hungry, but not as hungry. Building his machine took a lot out of him, with Iron Man saying that's why he needs his Heralds. When he destroyed the Skrull homeworld, the Heralds would have made the machine so he wouldn't have lost that precious energy. The wording of "precious" and "needs" implies that this was a very significant energy drain, something out of the ordinary. This means he still would've been weaker than he was at the Skrull Homeworld.
But Galactus always needs the energy, it’s why he eats planets. It doesn’t necessarily imply that he has absolutely no energy and that this is out of the ordinary for him.
 
It is out of the ordinary though. He has to use Heralds to build his machine because doing so himself costs him "precious" energy. Him having the build the machine instead of his Herald meant that he had to expend much more energy than normal, meaning he is at much lower energy levels than he would normally be when eating a planet, and is thus weaker than normal.
 
I agree with the changes but I abolutely disagree with giving EMH the Marvel Comics treatment. This show doesn’t have 20 billion different writers that make the scaling a mess. If we operate off the logic of “yeah, but in the comics…”, we’ll be shooting ourselves in the foot. Big time
 
How many do I need to get to agree about the remaining proposals for it to be accepted? And assuming it is accepted, what will their new tier be? Just go back to High 6-C?
 
I think removing the scaling too Galactus is fine, Tier 6 should be fine, but don't we need more evidence that the nine realms in this are all separate space-time continuum for it to be 2-C?
 
It is out of the ordinary though. He has to use Heralds to build his machine because doing so himself costs him "precious" energy. Him having the build the machine instead of his Herald meant that he had to expend much more energy than normal, meaning he is at much lower energy levels than he would normally be when eating a planet, and is thus weaker than normal.
But how would that affect his durability, which is how Thor scales.
 
I agree with the downgrade for another reason: One feat to scale an entire show.

This is a two-season show, it shouldn't be hard to find at least two feats to justify a tier
 
I agree with the downgrade for another reason: One feat to scale an entire show.

This is a two-season show, it shouldn't be hard to find at least two feats to justify a tier
There is only one tier 6 thing we are using, so by that logic, the verse shouldn't be either tiers. Plus, there is another tier 5 feat, with the Graviton black hole.
 
The main issue isn't that its one Tier 5 feat, its that the characters don't scale to that Tier 5 feat. The High 6-C feat is a direct feat for Thor. And the Graviton black hole thing is just too vague to be used I think.
 
From what I can tell, most seem to agree with Proposals 1 & 4. Proposal 3 was rejected so I dropped it. I think I just need stated staff approval, and maybe a vote.
 
A proper analysis of the show for more feats can be done whenever. Who knows, maybe there's another tier 6 feat that scales waiting to Jumpscare us
 
Yeah that's what I'm saying, there's 3 staff agrees, just PROPERLY edit the profiles to be High 6-C again.

Yes, that means each character needs a change in justifications if they so much as breathe at the High 5-A feat on their profile,
 
Back
Top