Blazblue AP Revision

[Theglassman12]

Again, stop with the strawmans cause that's not what I was referring to. I said the BLACK BEAST'S feats is 5-B based on the statements. Actually try to tackle that argument.

Yeah the atomizing result from Requiem which can be calced with atomization is somehow the same as not calcing subatomic destruction from a Quantic destruction. 10/10 logic.

 

[Antvasima]

@Theglassman12

I have problems with following the specifics of the conversation, but it would probably be a good idea if you ask some other staff members to comment here.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

@Antvasima agreed

 

[DMUA]

So again, you're boiling it down to be headcanon logic of "Oh it could be this strong instead so it can't make this version of the calc an outlier".

Pretty sure the calculation that she made that wasn't even called a bluff by a literal scientist shouldn't be considered flawed if not even Kokonoe called her bullshit and agreed with her statements on how strong the atomization would yield.

You seem to like that headcanon word, but maybe we should clear up what that means, so we know the proper topic.

Headcanon (or head canon, head-canon) is a fan's personal, idiosyncratic (a mode of behavior or way of thought peculiar to an individual) interpretation of canon, such as habits of a character, the backstory of a character, or the nature of relationships between characters.
	~ some website, fiction is too subjective for a proper dictionary, so whatever​

So, headcanon is the idea of someone thinking something outside of the text, in shorthand.

The problem is that we don't even have a text to think out of. We get one detail: the planet is "destroyed", and we have to interpret our own specific meaning. Subjectivity isn't headcanon, the former is one of the core elements of a story, while the latter is the one that degrades a story by taking away what it actually, definitively means.

Headcanon would be saying that the planet doesn't get destroyed, The Black Beast leaves and lets the survivors kill themselves, a direct contradiction to what we actually know. Subjectivity is saying that it's possible planet destruction refers to anything from wiping the surface, to violently shattering it and sending the pieces at several hundred Mach speed. Sure, the latter is a bit of a crazy assumption, but nothing makes it an invalid headcanon.

Your character can be as scientific as they want but they can't escape this. Atomizing the moon with an omnidirectional blast from earth is not 10^31 Joules, it's as was calculated with Inverse Square law, 16 Yottatons. At that, you don't need it to be an explosion for energy to start spreading thinner across more space.

That said, we seem to be confusing ourselves between if this is quantium anhilation or Atomization, which is understandable since the text says both to further throw a wrench into our understanding of the ordeal. So, who do we believe? The person saying it's an atomic explosion, or the person who states subatomic destruction?

If we trust the scientist, it could go all the way up to Tier 4, but if their statement was reliable, you have to wonder why they didn't correct Hades saying it wasn't that. Also you have to wonder how the fork they got such a low number when even something like, the size of Texas being subatomized is already 2 Zettatons or so

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

...well shit, you put it better than i could.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Also both of them (izanami and kokonoe) mention a radius for the blast, so

Inverse Square Law applies either way

 

[Theglassman12]

@Theglassman12
I have problems with following the specifics of the conversation, but it would probably be a good idea if you ask some other staff members to comment here.

The only other staffs that would know much about the conversation is either banned or not THAT knowledgeable on the series. Me and Shiro are like the only active members that are knowledgeable on the verse to begin with.

 

[Theglassman12]

@DMUA Why is Quantic destruction automatically assumed to be subatomic destruction? I told you that it makes no sense for using a calc for a different type of destruction for something that to my knowledge, we have no reliable way of calcing. Atomization would just be the better version to go since we CAN actually calc that as opposed to quantum destruction.

 

[DMUA]

Because to destroy it on a quantic level would involve the individual protons and neutrons and everything else being destroyed. It wouldn't make sense for it to take less energy to more thoroughly deconstruct it

But, yes, atomization is a bit more reliable, and used in the calc.

 

[Nobody234]

Hm... this is hard, but after giving it some thought, i think i will vote for 5A maybe? But i'm a newbie so....

 

[Antvasima]

The only other staffs that would know much about the conversation is either banned or not THAT knowledgeable on the series. Me and Shiro are like the only active members that are knowledgeable on the verse to begin with.

Well, they can hopefully still evaluate your arguments reasonably well, so it wouldn't hurt to ask some other administrators and discussion moderators to help out.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

bump

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

bump because i won't let this die

 

[Antvasima]

@Theglassman12 & DMUA

What do you think should be done here in summary?

 

[Theglassman12]

either have at least Low 5-B, possibly 5-A or just 5-A for the god tier characters, at this point I don't care which version is accepted.

 

[DMUA]

The feat's 5-A, that's where it should be rated.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Would 5-A be an acceptable solution for the two of you then?

 

[Antvasima]

Or should we use an "At least Low 5-B, likely 5-A" compromise?

 

[DMUA]

at this point I don't care which version is accepted

Don't see the need for a compromise under these conditions

 

[Antvasima]

Well, that seems to be more due to exhaustion than actually agreeing.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Are going to get to editing or what?

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

bump

 

[Schnee_One]

I agree with 5A for DMUA's reasons

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Now 5-A. Just Low 5-B. 100% with Glassman here.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Now 5-A. Just Low 5-B. 100% with Glassman here.

bad mod, go to your room

 

[DMUA]

That's not what you want to say to further your opinion

Speaking to both

 

[Antvasima]

@DMUA & Theglassman12

Would the two of you be willing to summarise your arguments in an easy to understand manner, so I might be of help here?

 

[Theglassman12]

I'm arguing that the characters should remain Low 5-B cause of the fact that them being 5-A from this recalc version is much higher than the feats from the most powerful monster in the series which has 2 5-B statements at best, so them being Low 5-B from the game's version of the calc would be more consistent.

DMUA is arguing that the game calc is wrong cause the numbers that they give and the fact that the feat involves destroying the moon cannot be Low 5-B, and that using Inverse square law for the calc is more accurate for how strong the feat should be.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I suppose that you seem to make more sense to me in that case.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Except that as stated many times in this thread and the original calc, the Black Beast being stronger is a non-factor because there's no information as to how he destroyed the world or how casual it was, something which can range all the way up to High 5-A. It's an extreme lowball, and Izanami's math in canon is incredibly contradictory which makes her unreliable at best.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

the thing is the one that agreed with her was kokonoe so...and wasn't atomizing the earth like low 5-B? Cuz look no further than Golden King and ik the moon is involved but just wondering does the moon's atomizing even count that much higher?

 

[DMUA]

Kokonoe made a statement about an entirely different form of destruction that would have gotten absolutely ludicrously higher results than 10^31. Atomization is at least in the same range but destroying down to a quantic level would be like, Small Star level

Also, again, Inverse Square Law. Golden King just kinda naturally atomizes things in his presence, this is a blast that would spread as it went outward

Though atomizing earth is still higher than Hades' numbers

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

the thing is the one that agreed with her was kokonoe so...and wasn't atomizing the earth like low 5-B? Cuz look no further than Golden King and ik the moon is involved but just wondering does the moon's atomizing even count that much higher?

Yes because the amount of energy needed to hit the moon, especially while also hitting everything else in a 400,000 kilometer radius like Izanami claims, is going to be much higher. Also, if we take Kokonoe's word it would be sub-atomization which would be far higher.

 

[Theglassman12]

For the last time. Quantic destruction is NOT the same as sub atomization. They're two completely different levels of destruction

 

[Schnee_One]

Quantic is actually significantly stronger then sub atomization.

 

[DMUA]

Now we don't actually have the scientific means to go past the Destruction of protons and neutrons, but it would definitely involve those, and much more, being wiped

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

For the last time. Quantic destruction is NOT the same as sub atomization. They're two completely different levels of Destruction

You're right. Quantic is far more.

 

[Theglassman12]

Now we don't actually have the scientific means to go past the Destruction of protons and neutrons, but it would definitely involve those, and much more, being wiped

So why not just use Atomization instead when we can indeed calc something on that level?

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Now we don't actually have the scientific means to go past the Destruction of protons and neutrons, but it would definitely involve those, and much more, being wiped

So why not just use Atomization instead when we can indeed calc something on that level?

We did. It got 5-A.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Just to ask, would it be a good idea to give the Azure Grimoire it's own profile. The Infinity Gauntlet has one after all