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BIG Fate Extra additions (mainly Extella) + upgrade for the tier 2.

The topic should have been changed to "Mooncell Revisions"...

But now I think it's quite clear that the Mooncell observes all possibilities, which are infinite.

If this is agreed upon, we can move on to "Does the Mooncell recreate it?" properly.
 
@lsir

The mooncell itself also implements quantum timelocks which is why archimedes cant do anything once it's in place. The mooncell is practically identical to The World in function and power.
 
It certainly does store them, and BB merges with the Mooncell. That alone could be a basis for 2-A, I think. If not, we can go with 2-B via the World, but who would scale to the World being a 2-B multiverse?
 
Why would the moon cell need quantum timelocks...? It has no timelines to prune, and if they are kept under it's own power then Archimedes SHOULD still be able to do something. Archimedes has no way to directly affect or interface with the Planet or the Universe, but he can do that with the Moon Cell.

And no, the Moon Cell is not identical. It has never been and it never will. That's the very reason why Arcueid's stat boosting becomes a stat debuff due to conceptually imposing the 6x greater gravity of the Earth, and why Saver's Anti-Mind NP becomes Anti-World, or why only under the Moon Cell Archer can recreate weapons he couldn't normally if he has permission, or why Kingtropea's NP in FGO is being able to ignore the square cube law and the counter force which doesn't exist in the Moon Cell to grow as large as she wants. There's a lot, a lot different.
 
Why wouldn't the mooncell need timelocks I'm not exactly sure why but I'm fairly certain it was stated that the mooncell put the timelocks in place during Extella. The very nature of the timelock actually prevents even him from doing anything to change it that's their entire purpose.

The mooncell's recreation of timelines is meant to be identical to the way The World does it and it's recording of everything is supposed to mimic Akasha. Arc's stat boost becomes a debuff because the mooncell is on the moon. She has twin Authorities, one from the moon via the Crimson Moon and one from Earth via being Archetype Earth. It has nothing to do with the mooncell. Which np are you referring to with Saver? No Name isn't Emiya anyway so we don't know what he is able to create normally. Kingprotea ignores those laws via the way her ability works iirc not just because they dont exist in the Mooncell.

I think you misunderstood btw. The World =/= the planet Earth.
 
No, timelocks can be pulled off. That's what Manaka Saiyou tries to do to bring about Arthur's eternal Britain using her reality altering shenanigans, but she does not have enough juice and wants to get the Holy Grail to be able to do it, with the side effect likely desestabilizing and destroying the entire timeline. Goetia himself is breaking off 7 of the more important timelocks using his singularities, otherwise history couldn't be burned. It makes no sense for the Moon Cell to be able to put timelocks it can't take off, or for it to put on Timelocks when it doesn't need to.

Where does it mention her Authority from Crimson Moon over the moon? We are just told that No Name's name was lost to time, there's nothing stating he isn't Emiya when almost every other detail is the very same. Trying to find the thing about Saver's NP. Could have been another one but has beena long time. You also didn't say much about Kingtropea being explicitly limited outside of the Moon Cell.

... Since when? Like literally, when was this ever stated anywhere? World always refers to Gaia unless there's anything to implicate the contrary. Unless you meant the literal, physical planet Earth in which case that's obvious.
 
Wasn't Manaka just trying to raise the Beast since she was already connected to the root and was bored?

Goetia is completely destroying the timeline by breaking off those timelocks though and he only managed it by destroying the anthropic principle within each artifical singularity and that caused history to cease to exist past 2016. So forcibly removing them like that wouldn't really help Archimedes.

Arcuied's authority over the moon comes from the fact that she is the successor of the Crimson Moon since she isn't as unstable as her sister and she can manifest the Millennium Castle. When Archetype Earth comes out it's the Crimson Moon in control since they are linked. No Name is a composite "Hero of Justice" he isn't Emiya like Archer is. Where is it stated that Kingprotea is limited outside the mooncell? If you are talking about her np Airavata King Size it only exists because her saint graph is ranked down upon being summoned by Chaldea and she isn't as strong as she normally is.

Consdiering you were talking about physical laws and Arc I thought you were assuming I meant Earth when I said The World. If you understand that I meant Alayashiki/Gaia then nevermind

The timelocks in the case of Extella help since it made it harder for Archimedes to complete his goals so if they were purposely made impossible to remove there would be no problem. Either way Archimedes always managed to jump to another timeline before the lock iirc so we really don't know much about the mooncell placing timelocks but like I said I'm fairly certain it said the mooncell placed them
 
She needed the beast 666 to overcome the timelock that was in place in the destruction of Camelot.
 
Welp guys check out BB's profile. she's got more abilities BB (Fate/Extra CCC)

Also i made a thread about possible Type 9 immortalties sense everyone on my previous thread wanted to discuss that. https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3337020

Also, Fate/Extra CCC Arc is the Avatar of both the Earth, and Moon at the same time. Im about to do a revision on her after the Type 9 discussion, and my Luck stat disucussion.
 
Manaka's connection is what allows her to do that, but she needed the connection to boost herself and destroy the quantum timelock. Her reality warping is limited by her magic circuits, which are like no other in the world but she also has just a few.

Not really, considering that Goetia is specifically destroying the timelocks so that he can burn humanity and harvest the energy from destroying intelligent lifeforms. Throwing off the Timelock does not, by its own nature, **** the timeline into destruction.

Where is this stated though? She's the successor of crimson moon, but she's still an elemental of earth meant to represent the very earth itself. Was it said somewhere in Extra and I missed it perhaps? Where was the composite stuff mentioned? We literally see a shot of living No Name using a sniper, and hear a mention of something he did while alive.

"- Huge Scale: EX
An id_es skill. id_es skills are the inborn special powers of the Alter Egos.
Her "Self Modification" cheat skill goes out of control and activates Huge Scale EX.
It enables unlimited expansion of her size and scale.
Due to limitations imposed by the force of gravity on Earth, life forms have an upper limit on their size. Even in the sea, the size of a whale is more of less as big as it can get. The same goes for buildings, due to limitations of construction technology and financing; there is nothing that can be infinitely enlarged. This also holds true in the cyber world where the laws of physics don't apply.
All programs have a limit on their level, and no matter how greatly a program excels, in order to surpass its boundary it must separate and optimize itself." https://www.tmdict.com/en/ki.kingprotea Translation from the Fate/EXTRA material.
 
Here is some informaiton on Berserker Arc

https://i.imgur.com/r5He2E7.jpg

https://imgur.com/wPLmG0T

  • https://imgur.com/1RzCA1V
 
I don't have much knowledge on prototype so eh

Goetia was destroying the timelocks so he can harvest the energy but the destruction of the timelocks is still what caused the destruction of history past 2016 so it seems like it does break the timeline on it's own

She is an elemental of Earth, made by the Crimson Moon and containing the Crimson Moon within herself as seen in melty blood

It was somewhere in Extra that said Archer isn't Stay Night Archer, he is stated to not even be the same person as Stay Night Archer. He became the convenient shape of a Hero of Justice that people wanted and lost his identity in doing so.

That quote doesn't at all say her skill doesn't work outside the mooncell. In fact it says her growth is limited within the mooncell as well even though it lacks the laws. Kingprotea in particular is able to just say lolno to that limit on growth though
 
Was it implied anywhere that him breaking the timelocks is what doesn't allow time to go beyond 2016? I thought it was the fact that he destroyed everything in that year and then systematically advanced forward. The Salomon Time Temple even shows the actual year instead of 2016 when you enter it, so it would seem time is actually moving but there's just nothing there.

That still doesn't mean she has the authority of the moon or that her ability is related to that. Reading what Upgrade linked, I believe this even more so as there's no mention of this. Rather, of a "comparison" between Earth and Moon, her authority over the Earth is even emphasized.

I never said he was Stay Night Archer, but besides the circumstances of his life Archer is pretty much the exact same in mannerism and powers, there's no reason to assume his NP would be anything different. There's also this directly from the Material book, "In EXTRA, since the requirements for producing wrought iron have increased, Holy Sword class projections are possible (although their power is inferior to the originals)." It does mention it was because Nasu saw there was a Model for Excalibur Image and didn't want to not use their hard work, so he felt it was safe while the noble phantasms were degraded, but the in-universe reasoning is still the conditions of the Moon.

Her growth is limited under the moon cell for reasons completely unrelated to the laws of physics, unlike in the moon cell. Also, where they don't work is in FGO, where her NP allows her to disregard those same laws of physics and the pressure of the Counter Force trying to limit her. My whole point remains the same, the conditions of the Moon Cell are certainly NOT the same as the normal Universe or Planet Earth.
 
I'm pretty sure it said that the collapse of the anthropic principle is what leads to time not going forward. Ars Paulina exists outside of thr time axis and the universe within the imaginary number space so it showing the actual time is a result of that

There is more stuff supporting it in metly blood ill find it later but again Arc literally houses the Crimson Moon inside herself, why would she not have his authority?

Where is the quote for No Name that says the mooncell is the reason for him being able to do those projections because all that quote says is that the quality of such projections is degraded. although i don't see the point in arguing about totally not Emiya

Her growth on the mooncell is limited because even on the mooncell the high servants and other programs aren't allowed to just gain infinite xp normally. In fgo her saint graph is degraded which is why her np is needed to allow her to grow unlimitedly again.

I never said the conditions of the Mooncell are the same. I said the functionality, as in the who recreating universes and stuff, part is meant to be close to The World and the whole recording everything and Serial Phantasm part are supoosed to be close to Akasha
 
I'll see if I can find that then, don't quite remember it.

Considering everything in Extra happens in the moon cell and there's other differences, I don't see why it wouldn't refer to the Moon. Are you doubting my paltry excuses to talk about Not EMIYA?

Is degraded exactly because she can't do that on the normal world unless she has her NP which places a cap on how much she can do it, but she can without an NP in the Mooncell. It strictly talks about how Kingprotea just ignores the restriction and makes her highest possible level higher still when she caps out, and level refers to the Moon Cell exclusively as the skill itself talks about how programs in Cyberspace are connected to their level.

And my whole point is that the functionality is actually not the same on many levels. Most hackers can't even have a well defined appearence in the Moon Cell due to how spiritron construcs work. Like, where's literally everything that should theoretically exist if the Moon Cell is simulating all the worlds it has kept in its data? Also... not sure what to think about it, but just found something about the moon cell being powered by absurd amounts of stored light it also uses to store it's data.
 
I am aware, I am just referring to the fact that in many ways the inside of the Moon Cell resembles the world outside but its not the same at all, assuming it imposes Timelocks on itself is just... weird.

And I still don't see the justification for all the data being simulated at once. One of the Extra entries talks about how the Moon Cell gathered data, ran calculations to forsee the future, then stored the information. It's been around for billions of years doing this, we don't need to assume the Moon Cell is literally simulating every single world at the same time with no proof of this.
 
Ah i see.. Well the whole timelock thing i can't explain.. i haven't fully gone through extella, and im doing 1 revision at a time for easability

I only see it maintaining 1 giant universe for right now. The "It stores the information of the future" its it just making an analysis and then applying changes, im too tired to explain lol. its 1 am here

but i understand your point lel
 
I really doubt the Mooncell replicates infinite timelines all at the same time, but I do think it's plausible that it can store infinite timelines, since this is what Rani said.

Now the question is if BB scales to this. She merged with the Mooncell, meaning she must have merged with all of its stored universes, which are infinite. But is this 2-A? That's the trillion dollar question.

This whole thread was to determine whether or not 2-C/2-B/2-A is a thing, so if it isn't, we can safely assume that there won't be any tier buffs anytime soon.
 
Moon Cell stores that stuff in its Core.

BB already has higher d stuff. She can do everything the Moon Cell can do and has access to all of its functions and areas.

Stuff like "Moon Cell is powered by crystals, light etc." is not really relevant, since it has several universal/infinite areas within itself.
 
It stores the data it has compiled, we are told this yes, it doesn't just literally make them all manifest at the same time.
 
If it's stored then it's stored. It doesn't have to continuously simulate every timeline if the timeline is already stored and exists within the Angelica Cage.
 
Yes, I do believe there is a big difference between simple data and something made manifest and completely comparable to an actual timeline with all it's space and time.
 
Indeed, it still doesn't provide conclusive proof. I don't care if you spin it as "its not real", data is just data unless for some reason we assume all those timelines exist manifested at the same time.
 
^ in addition the very fact archimedes was able to travel to different timelines in extella also proves this, since his authority was basically just a weaker version of the second magic and allowed him to travel through different parallel worlds in the mooncell
 
Infinite parallel words has been consistent through almost all Fate series, so i agree with it.

Now, does it scale to AP or is it just hax?
 
I'd prefer if it was just hax, I like low 2-C fate they can have cool matches

I feel like it scales to ap more than hax but idk
 
Well, it seems to be more of a system, which is why I think the characters with authority comparable to superior to it scale hax wise, instead of AP. You could argue that the moon cell should be 2-A AP wise tho
 
"Rani :: No, that's not precisely it. As it is created by the Moon Cell, which is finite, the Labyrinth cannot become infinite — it must be of a single shape, with a fixed entrance and exit. No matter how irregular it appears, the Labyrinth must abide by those conditions or it will break down." - https://tsukinoura.wordpress.com/2013/10/30/entry-93-the-wide-open-labyrinth/

The Mooncell has a limit, and its likely a 4D dimensional axis is the limit.
 
That's talking about how the labyrinth can't be an infinite size, not about the amount of parallel worlds. It's saying the labyrinth itself needs to be a single shape and have a fixed entrance and exit or the labyrinth breaks which doesn't make sense considering the rest of the game or extra series tbh

And again like I said before, there are statments that say there are timelines for every possibility and that there are infinite possibilities meaning there are infinite worlds. The sheer amount of those statements outweigh the singular statement about not having enough energy

The limit of the mooncell is clearly not a singular 4d axis considering it has multiple timelines being ran at once
 
ThisIsMySwagPack said:
You are spinning it as "not real" even with all the evidence and people here saying otherwise.
Click to expand...
You mean the lacking evidence for why this is anything more than stored data? Number of people in agreement matters squat. Literally short comments without context to invalidate a much more in-depth explanation of the cosmology, and nothing substantial to make it seem like a computer is doing anything more than what any computer does, store data. Which is also literally stated in the Extra/Material that explains things.
 
Paul Frank said:
That's talking about how the labyrinth can't be an infinite size
Click to expand...
"Rani :: No, that's not precisely it. As it is created by the Moon Cell, which is finite, "

^ this first statement isn't talk about the Labyrinth... Rani is saying the Mooncell is finite...

"As it is created by the Moon Cell" = Is the verb. this is the action

"Which is finite" = is a restrictive clause

A restrictive clause adds necessary information about something you have mentioned in a sentence before the clause.
 
Rani: The Mooncell is finite...

BB: My BB Special Dog Space is infinite!

Or was BB creating her Canine Space without the Mooncell's power? She did have Ten Crowns on her at that time.
 
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