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BIG Fate Extra additions (mainly Extella) + upgrade for the tier 2.

Iapitus The Impaler said:
I come baring 2-A Saver feats . While I hold that these would be hax feats above all else, this one seems the closest to actual AP. He seems to have used his authority/abilities to take control of the process of the pruning of parallel worlds.
Click to expand...
I just finished watching Fate/Extra Last Encore, and that part did surprise me too.

However, I remember a while ago that numerous Fate/Extra character was rejected from getting upgraded to 2-A because apparently, the Mooncell just simulates parallel universes.
 
However, the Moon Cell's simulations are all just as real as everything else in the Nasuverse. Hence why it creating 8D structures are actual 8th dimensional spaces. In addition, Twice was going to end all parallel worlds, and seems to have legitimate control over the pruning process, which last I checked isn't only about the Moon Cell's simulated universes.
 
imo, if were talking about "Simulating" an addtional axis of movement.. You can't really simulate something unless it does exist otherwise that "additional axis of movement" would be impossible to perform. if that makese sense..

the first 5 minutes of Altera's route in exetella might be helpful for those looking to upgrade the verse, but idk..

im going to stay neutral and on the sidelines for now..
 
I think something like the Persona 1-2 buffs could work, if Twice really could control the pruning process. Really far into 2-B, possibly 2-A. Just like Persona indeed, orz
 
Since BB revision is practically done, we can focus on this. I think it would be best to gather every scan concerning 2-C, 2-B or 2-A. Basically, statements that show how many universes there are, statements on characters possibly affecting all of that. Saver's feat is one for example and I think Tamamo said that she could destroy the multiverse at full power.

When we have everything it will be easier to conclude whether we accept it or not, and if it's hax or AP.
 
My stance remains the same on 2-A. We are literally told pruning exists in the first place because timelines replicate infinitely, and energy couldn't be spared for actually infinite timelines so the worthless ones that can make more timelines are pruned off. A growing, incomplete infinity is not the same as an actual, complete infinite. I believe this is a thing even in mathematics, like how there are sets of infinity actually bigger than other sets of infinity despite both being, well, infinite.

I am really hesitant about using anything related to the Extra Anime, but then again I love Buddha so my bias is telling me to shut up.
 
It seems like countless. Since it has infinite timelines, but is constantly being cut off by the World itself, then it should the bill of "countless", hence very high 2-B, possibly 2-A. I only say possibly 2-A because the world has infinite timelines, but gets cut off constantly; but you can also argue that reducing numbers from something infinite is still infinite.

2-B is obviously safer but we can't ignore the many "infinite" statements. So a possibly 2-A imo is fine.
 
ThisIsMySwagPack said:
I think Tamamo said that she could destroy the multiverse at full power.
Click to expand...
Ah, remember when that was considered an outlier? Now, I can't believe we're actually discussing about how it might be a legit thing!

Amaterasu is considered a God tier in the Nasuverse, right?
 
Since we have no way of determining exact hierarchy everyone who is tier 2 would get affected by this upgrade, if it gets accepted. Since this is connected to the Moon Cell and pretty much everyone scales from it.
 
If ever 2-B Fate gets accepted..

... Rimuru VS Melt. BB VS Arceus.

Oh my, I think I'm going to faint just imagining those matchups..
 
If there are infinite possibilities, as multiple statements say there are, culling a few of them doesn't make it not infinite since infinite-any finite number is still infinite
 
Judging from the way Extella talks. basically if the worlds aren't controlled in such a way. There will be something similar to a "Big Rip" or "Big Crunch" but on a Multiverse wide scale, world by world.
 
Using tha ttree analogy it appears the trunk could grow infinitely in a liner fashion, but its trunks, leaves, fruits can't. They immediately get killed.
 
On the Altera Route first 5 minutes, The MoonCell doesn't seem to contain a Multiverse inside of itself such as popular belief believes. but it appears it's literally tracking the history of those other worlds. It's literally reading the entire history of the other worlds and using informaiton to make calculatons on itself so it make a more "accurate simulation" ... if that makes since.
 
ShinyMagicalGirl said:
2-B is obviously safer but we can't ignore the many "infinite" statements. So a possibly 2-A imo is fine.
Click to expand...
You are not getting me at all. They grow infinitely, they are not infinite. For the third time, these two things are not the same. There's a finite number of timelines, but that finite number endlessly expands. The growth is infinite, not the actual number. An incomplete infinity and a complete infinity are not the same. The highest this can go is 2-B, but pretty high 2-B nonetheless. As for the Tamamo thing, Outlier had nothing to do with it last I saw. Faulty translation was the reason, as people looked into the actual japanese of the original game.
 
"And the Moon Cell contains them litteraly, Velber also took some. In case you're wondering if they're litteral alternate worlds, Extella games have shown to have at very least more than 20 parallel worlds (each route is revealed to be one of them)."

I'd like to point out here is that the Mooncell had its data of its observation of the parallel worlds stolen. It doens't literally contain a multiverse yet, but instead it observes the entire history of the multiverse from the way Archimedes made his explanation sound.

Unpopular Opinion that I have: I am aganist anything higher than low 2-C for right now.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
You are not getting me at all. They grow infinitely, they are not infinite. For the third time, these two things are not the same. There's a finite number of timelines, but that finite number endlessly expands. The growth is infinite, not the actual number. An incomplete infinity and a complete infinity are not the same. The highest this can go is 2-B, but pretty high 2-B nonetheless.
Click to expand...
As what Paul Frank said:

"If there are infinite possibilities, as multiple statements say there are, culling a few of them doesn't make it not infinite since infinite-any finite number is still infinite"
 
That's only the case if the number is already a complete infinite. For timelines to be infinitely born, infinite possibilities must exist, that's just basic logic. But the Tree of Time, as they refer to it, ëxpands. It has a certain size and it grows as more timelines are created, both before and after the pruning. Something can't grow if it's already infinite, and if it was a complete infinity and was still infinite after dividing it by whatever number, pruning timelines so the multiverse doesn't crash from lack of energy to power them all stops making any sense because suddenly, there's still infinite timelines that the multiverse should have no way of supporting. The whole reason pruning exists and its a necessary part of the multiverse still existing would make no sense under this idea.

So, no. That conclusion is outright wrong.
 
TheUpgradeManHaHaxD said:
I'd like to point out here is that the Mooncell had its data of its observation of the parallel worlds stolen. It doens't literally contain a multiverse yet, but instead it observes the entire history of the multiverse from the way Archimedes made his explanation sound.
Click to expand...
That's what I was trying to say earlier, yes. The Moon Cell is an observation device that compiles information and data. The fact it can replicate this data in it's simulation doesn't mean it is simulating all of these future what ifs at all times simultaneously. It's just like how the Moon Cell has all the data of the heroic spirits of human history, but they are just data until the moon cell actually summons them.
 
Diinou HotHead said:
https://imgur.com/gallery/jDHKmMv
The one scan for "Infinite possibilities"
Click to expand...
Here's one of the scans that says there's infinite worlds. Goetia has also stated it pretty blatantly, about how human history has infinite possibilties.

And Iapitus has also said that Chakravartin can wipe out all possible worlds and possibilities in the Extra anime.

So, I think it being infinite should at least warrant a "possibly" or "potentially". I'm honestly more on board with 2-B, but 2-A seems like a definite possibility.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
That's what I was trying to say earlier, yes. The Moon Cell is an observation device that compiles information and data. The fact it can replicate this data in it's simulation doesn't mean it is simulating all of these future what ifs at all times simultaneously. It's just like how the Moon Cell has all the data of the heroic spirits of human history, but they are just data until the moon cell actually summons them.
Click to expand...
I see your point.. The Mooncell itself also has a higher dimensional perspective it seems. being able to see all of history for every world in the multiverse including the dead worlds. It then does an analysis and uses those results to make an accurate simulation. This higher dimesional persepctive could possibly be 5D since its viewing the literal entire multiverse and all its history like a book.
 
Wait a second...

If all the things inside the Mooncell are just a simulation, then technically the MFTL feat of everyone isn't real then? Since you say its a simulation, the universes inside it are not real, and also all the feats inside it?

I'm confused again. I thought we established the Mooncell as having real things within it? It can also create massive Reality Marbles iirc, but then you say it only complies data and observes it... That would debunk pretty much every feat right?
 
the Mooncell is its own universe that has its own 3D world, and Time axis. So the MFTL rating is still there + its balantly stated that GIlgamesh flew 1,500 light years, and was still inside of the Mooncell. When i say it makes itself an "Accurate Simulation" i am saying its using the information it gathered to make a more "accurate world"
 
TheUpgradeManHaHaxD said:
This higher dimesional persepctive could possibly be 5D since its viewing the literal entire multiverse and all its history like a book.
Click to expand...
So wait... The analogy you're suggesting is like, us 3D beings (Mooncell) viewing a flat book and its pages and stories within it as a 2D object (entire multiverse and all of history)? Is this what you're trying to say?
 
Pruning is the act by which the multiverse erases timelines that can't divide into more timelines after a certain amount of time, specifically because it doesn't have infinite energy and it wouldn't last a century if it left timelines be born without any policing. The whole concept of pruning makes no sense if timelines make a complete infinity, because infinity divided even by infinity is still infinity, which means there are still infinite timelines that the universe can't support and it should have crashed billions of years ago. This hasn't happened exactly because timelines only grow infinitely, they are not actually infinite. Possibilities and actual timelines are not the same thing and that's what no one is getting. The chance for a timeline to be born doesn't mean it's instantly born, otherwise there would be no ïnfinitely growing number, because all timelines already exists and there's no timelines being born.

From every logical angle that you see this, there can't be infinite timelines, only infinite possibilities for more timelines to be born.
 
But either way, the Mooncell can store and observe these infinite possibilities right? So while the World isn't 2-A, I thinkkkkk the Mooncell can be, as it can store and observe the infinite possibilties of the World? I mean, this would imply the World is inferior to the Mooncell...

But then we have this whole simulated thingy, and that kinda ruins like, everything in this thread.
 
ShinyMagicalGirl said:
So wait... The analogy you're suggesting is like, us 3D beings (Mooncell) viewing a flat book and its pages and stories within it as a 2D object (entire multiverse and all of history)? Is this what you're trying to say?
Click to expand...
Yes, but we increase the dimesnionality in that analogy. 5D and viewing an entire multiverse something that is 4D like a book along with all its history.
 
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