Big DBS manga revisions

[Zamasu_Chan]

These are some pretty heavy buffs to the manga.

Base Goku should be 4-B. Gohan in the ROF Arc, who should be at least 1.053 KiloFOE, stood no chance against Frieza even in his first form, which is < 1% of Final Form Frieza. Base Goku is equal to Final Form Frieza and should scale 50x above Gohan since FF Frieza is at 50% regularly.

As for the other stuff?

We start in the Goku Black Arc where Black gets beat up so much that he's able to match and surpass Vegeta Blue. Black then goes Rosé on top of that which is at least God level. Later Vegeta is actually rather comparable to Rosé Black as he dodged his blast with low difficulty and he didn't need to switch to blue to pressure Rosé Black and push him back.

So with basic power scaling, post ROSAT God Vegeta >= Rosé Black > SSJ Black > pre ROSAT Vegeta Blue. This would make post ROSAT SSJ Vegeta 3-B.

Now on to the ToP.

At the near end of the Tournament, Base Goku and Vegeta are putting up a good fight against a weakened Jiren and even make him bleed. Jiren then gets a rage boost and after that, Goku is still able to struggle against Jiren, who's actually trying, and even manages to restrain him enough to the point where he can't break out of Goku's grip until he's ringed out.

Due to them going so far above their limits Base Goku and Vegeta fighting a weakened Jiren would make their base forms 3-B.

Conclusion? RoF to ToD Base Goku and Vegeta become 4-B, ending of Black Arc ssj forms become 3-B, and Top Bases become 3-B.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

 

[Ionliosite]

>2-C Zamas

This will go to hell

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

This... actually is far more plausible than the Low 2-C Upgrade for the anime... No offense to anyone.

Speaking of, after this gets resolved we need a CSSB CRT. Also, how does CSSB Scale to IZ ? Do they admit something I'm unaware of ?

 

[Purgy]

Wasn't Zamasu's plan to kill all mortals? Him "destroying" the worlds is more than likely him referring to killing everybody in them. Also there's a contradiction with your theory, Goku says "He's going to destroy the parallel worlds" and then after he says "I didn't think he was going to destroy the whole universe", if Zamasu was really referring to destroying everything instead of just killing everybody in them, Goku wouldn't have said these two contradicting statements, I'm just basing this on the scans you presented so I might be missing some context. Ignore everything I said, I'm an idiot who doesn't remember that he's referring to Zen'o.

 

[Antoniofer]

Ah ha, yeah, umm, Hit hasn't even started to get serious in that fight, few panels ahead you'll see that its clear that Goku do not stood a chance against Hit as SS.

At least at the time of that arc, only Vegeta SSG was comparabke to Black SSR, as he was the only one he trained. Also, I'm kind of sure that Vegeta usee his SSG-SSB switching the whole battle.

This is post-zenkai Black SS, that was clearly stronger than his pre-zenkai form, it do not scale to the sayains other forms.

Yeah, gonna skip the 2-C part for obvious reasons, and let anyone else do the job.

Ehhh, this would case and inconsistence if you do not assume that Frieza was "merely pretending", as it would make Gohan stronger than the other dayains and Frieza and that is not true. Also, when Goku attack Saganbo the first time he was in UI Omen, that is explained in the very same episode.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

I agree with 2-C upgrades for the characters.

 

[TheBestBoi]

uhh goku was in ultra instinct omen when he was bodying saganbo but he should be more powerful than zamasu in blue form

 

[Omegas03]

I disagree with 3-B for Non Godly Forms Saiyans before Vegeta's HTC training. Hit was simply holding back.

@Antoniofer

SSB = SSR

Post Rosat SSB Vegeta > SSR Black > SSJ2 Black post Zenkai > Pre Rosat SSB Vegeta who is 3-B

Logically Post Rosat SSJ/2 Vegeta would be above post Zenkai SSJ2 Black, considering Vegeta stomped him in the same transformations. Unless for some reason SSJ2 to SSR for Black boost is lower than Vegeta from 2 to Blue.

Regarding 2-C, even if Zamasu was going to destroy the timeline's universes one by one that would still be Low 2-C or at the very very least 3-A, which would be consistent with Beerus and Champa's statement that I think it was in the Manga too (destroying U6 and 7 in a fight). I've seen characters get Low 2-C for less so I don't think any reason for this to not apply.

If this gets through somehow, CSSJB Goku > Anime MUI Goku lmao

 

[SuperDragoon978]

Goku wasn't in his base form against Saganbo. He was usuing Ultra Instinct Omen in bursts. When SSB Goku fought Saganbo, Moro told Goku to use the form he used to blitz Saganbo or he'd keep powering him up. Goku goes UIO in response.

 

[Spinoirr]

I also disagree with 3-B base-non god forms fra

Won't say anything about the 2-C stuff

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Wasn't Zamasu's plan to kill all mortals? Him "destroying" the worlds is more than likely him referring to killing everybody in them. Also there's a contradiction with your theory, Goku says "He's going to destroy the parallel worlds" and then after he says "I didn't think he was going to destroy the whole universe", if Zamasu was really referring to destroying everything instead of just killing everybody in them, Goku wouldn't have said these two contradicting statements, I'm just basing this on the scans you presented so I might be missing some context. Ignore everything I said, I'm an idiot who doesn't remember that he's referring to Zen'o.

I get that you're joking put people are gonna use that as a point. Zamasu's original plan was to preserve the earth but after getting beat by Goku, he says this. He was gonna destroy the galaxy and he said he was through with the universe. Plus his timeline destroying statement was after he got super pissed.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

I also disagree with 3-B base-non god forms fra
Won't say anything about the 2-C stuff

Post black arc?

 

[Planck69]

>2-C Manga ToP

 

[CryoTheMayo]

I also disagree with 3-B Non-God against Hit, but agree with 3-B during the Black arc and after.

2-C is something I would prefer to see more debate about, but I am leaning to 'agree'.

 

[Antoniofer]

That is not how scaling works, Black increases of power doesn't need to be proportional to Vegeta increases of power, plus, the reason they became stronger are different, Vegeta conventionally trained, meanwhile Zamasu's soul was adapting more and more to Goku's body.

Plus Black was SS, not SS2.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

That is not how scaling works, Black increases of power doesn't need to be proportional to Vegeta increases of power, plus, the reason they became stronger are different, Vegeta conventionally trained, meanwhile Zamasu's soul was adapting more and more to Goku's body.

Plus Black was SS, not SS2.

What? They're the same level of power, Rose is just a different color. So if Vegeta's blue form > rose it's only common sense that his ssj2 form would also be stronger than Black's.

 

[Antoniofer]

With that logic then base Vegeta is as strong as base Black, but we all known that Black is considerable stronger than Goku SS3, even before the the zenkai.

 

[Omegas03]

I mean, previously SSJ2 Vegeta stomped SSJ Black so logically their bases would be comparable, after all Vegeta trained with Trunks for a moments. Goku and Vegeta have gotten crazier gains than that lol.

It's literally how scaling works, if SSB Vegeta > SSR Black then SSJ2/Base Vegeta would be above SSJ2/Base Black.

 

[Antoniofer]

But their bases aren't comparable, Black is clearly stronger than any form Goku, Vegeta and Trunks, except by Vegeta SS2, that is considerable stronger than Goku SS3 (it doesn't mean that Vegeta's base is stronger than Goku's, is simply means that his transformation grants a superior boost).

 

[Omegas03]

Vegeta's SSJ2 being better due to the sudden and really short rage boost he got in BoG is never stated though.

 

[Antoniofer]

He was better in BoG arc, and he was better in Goku Black arc, so is clear that his SS2 form is superior to any Goku's non-godly form.

 

[Omegas03]

BoG arc one just lasted a few seconds before going back to normal, he just got stronger by training and his SSJ2 surpassed Black's.

 

[Antoniofer]

It doesn't say he suddely becomes weaker or back to "normal", he just stopped attacking once it became obvious that he wasn't going to do anything to Beerus; regardless, he did a better perfomance than Goku SS3.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Antoniofer has a point but that doesn't deny 3-B ssj forms post black arc.

 

[Purgy]

Wasn't Zamasu's plan to kill all mortals? Him "destroying" the worlds is more than likely him referring to killing everybody in them. Also there's a contradiction with your theory, Goku says "He's going to destroy the parallel worlds" and then after he says "I didn't think he was going to destroy the whole universe", if Zamasu was really referring to destroying everything instead of just killing everybody in them, Goku wouldn't have said these two contradicting statements, I'm just basing this on the scans you presented so I might be missing some context. Ignore everything I said, I'm an idiot who doesn't remember that he's referring to Zen'o.

I get that you're joking put people are gonna use that as a point. Zamasu's original plan was to preserve the earth but after getting beat by Goku, he says this. He was gonna destroy the galaxy and he said he was through with the universe. Plus his timeline destroying statement was after he got super pissed.

I wasn't joking, I was just straight wrong due to missing context.

 

[Antoniofer]

Antoniofer has a point but that doesn't deny 3-B ssj forms post black arc.

Maybe only Vegeta SS2, but that is a stretch, there's no other notable showing of Goku's non-godly forms.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Antoniofer has a point but that doesn't deny 3-B ssj forms post black arc.

Maybe only Vegeta SS2, but that is a stretch, there's no other notable showing of Goku's non-godly forms.

CSSB Goku and CSSB Vegeta are depicted as similar in power during the ToP IIRC, which would technically fall under 'post Black arc'. If they are similar in the same forms, then they are probably similar in all other identical forms.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Whis said they're dead equal after the black arc.

 

[Dragomer]

Just asking would the feats from DBS Broly being canon would affect this revision at all ? because depending on how you see the dimension thing, it might go against this upgrade or be used as supporting evidence IMO.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Just asking would the feats from DBS Broly being canon would affect this revision at all ? because depending on how you see the dimension thing, it might go against this upgrade or be used as supporting evidence IMO.

I mean, it's stated in the Novel that the energy produced by the clash of Gogeta and Broly was 'greater than the boundaries of the universe' and they were clearly shattering spacetime with their dimensional weirdness. That could feasibly be argued as Low 2-C.

 

[Antoniofer]

Yeah, they are equals (at least up to the US Arc, after Vegeta obtained SSBE I would argue he is moderatly stronger), but that doesn't mean all their forms are equals, Goku SS2 is not necessary equal to Vegeta SS2, nor Goku SS3 is necessary equal to Vegeta SS2 (and from what we have seen, thhat Vegeta's form is superior to those both forms).

 

[Dragomer]

I lean toward agreeing for the 2-C thing BTW, could be forgetting something though.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Yeah, they are equals (at least up to the US Arc, after Vegeta obtained SSBE I would argue he is moderatly stronger), but that doesn't mean all their forms are equals, Goku SS2 is not necessary equal to Vegeta SS2, nor Goku SS3 is necessary equal to Vegeta SS2 (and from what we have seen, thhat Vegeta's form is superior to those both forms).

Base and Base are the same.

Goku and Vegeta mastered Super Saiyan by the Buu Saga, there should be no difference in that form.

The only instance of SS2 differing is Trunks' enhancement, but we are never told or given the impression that Vegeta learned to do the same.

SS3 is obviously much stronger than SS2.

SSG and SSG are the same, it's just base form with God Ki.

CSSB and CSSB are the same, just the same form at max power.

SSBE is different from CSSB, so is Goku's power-stressed SSB.

 

[Antoniofer]

That SS3 is a superior transformation than SS2 doesn't mean is stronger than someone else in a "inferior" form, there has been already two instance of that working in that way, 3 if you count Trunks vs Goke.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

That SS3 is a superior transformation than SS2 doesn't mean is stronger than someone else in a "inferior" form,

If they are both equal in SS2, it does.

there has been already two instance of that working in that way, 3 if you count Trunks vs Goke.

Trunks is a special circumstance, treated as a big deal where he specifically learned to push SS2 further, which Vegeta doesn't have.

What are the other two instances you are thinking of?

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I agree with the OP surprisingly enough. Good job!

Edit: I still agree with everything except non God form Saiyans scaling to 3-B against Hit. I do agree with it during Black arc though scaling to SS Black beating SSB vegeta after evolving.

 

[Antoniofer]

And what's make you think they are equally strong as SS2? They have never fought each other in that form, and the instance I refer is what were mentioned above, in the BoG and GB Arcs. I mean if, what makes Trunks SS2 "special" is pushing his form, why wouldn't apply to Vegeta? A difference from Goku is that he doesn't have a SS3 form, so he has no choise.

 

[Omegas03]

Is there any counter to the 2-C thing?

Even if we assume Zamasu was going to destroy the Universes one by one it would be at least Low 2-C. And both Beerus and Champa can destroy their universes so there is more Low 2-C supporting evidence.

 

[Antoniofer]

I'm pretty sure he was refering to destroy all the mortals and not the space-time continuum.