Big DBS manga revisions

[Iisdude1]

Weren't they going to do the same 2-C feat

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

I get that you're joking put people are gonna use that as a point. Zamasu's original plan was to preserve the earth but after getting beat by Goku, he says this. He was gonna destroy the galaxy and he said he was through with the universe. Plus his timeline destroying statement was after he got super pissed.

 

[Dragomer]

I'm pretty sure he was refering to destroy all the mortals and not the space-time continuum.

Zamasu said right before that that he was done with the universe and didn't care for it anymore / was going to destroy it though.

 

[Omegas03]

That's at the very least 3-A for CSSB tier characters.

But Low 2-C would be the most accurate option, if not outright 2-C.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

And what's make you think they are equally strong as SS2? They have never fought each other in that form,

What makes you think they differ? There isn't a single circumstance where they differ in SS2.

and the instance I refer is what were mentioned above, in the BoG and GB Arcs.

Battle of Gods? You mean Vegeta becoming super enraged in SS2? That's a 'special circumstance' like Trunks. Vegeta won't have that power in SS2 without extreme rage as an impetus. In the Black arc, Vegeta trained in the Time Chamber for months to grow stronger.

I mean if, what makes Trunks SS2 "special" is pushing his form, why wouldn't apply to Vegeta?


Goku states Super Saiyan 3 is a 'level above Super Saiyan 2' and both Goku and Vegeta are astounded by Trunks' enhancement of Super Saiyan 2, Trunks even says he didn't consider a normal SS2 to be his limit.
It's very clear that what Trunks does isn't easily replicated, and it is never indicated that Vegeta learned to use it.

A difference from Goku is that he doesn't have a SS3 form, so he has no choise.

Having no choice doesn't mean he magically pushed SS2 like Trunks, or that he can use Quake of Fury w/o extreme rage.

 

[Tyranno223]

Isn't the reference to parallel lines just a continuation off of Zamasu's plan to spread his... plan to the other parallel worlds? It'd make more sense for destroy in this context to be ruin rather than outright obliterate, especially since Zamasu didn't just outright nuke everything and sinnce there's no supporting feats for Zamasu being capable off such a feat elsewhere (heck Zamasu even threatens Goku, his equal, with a galaxy level threat)

 

[Antoniofer]

The circumstance was Vegeta as SS2 having clear advantage over an opponent that was far superior to someone that matched Goku as SS3; there were no timeskip between Trunks coming to the present and going back to the future, there were no intense training beyond a friendly sparring between Vegeta and Trunks, no one becomes stronger during that period.

 

[Dragomer]

As said above, Zamasu litteraly said he was through with the universe before the statements about destroying worlds, it would be more bizarre for him to spread his plan after he litteraly said he was dropping it.

 

[Tipper17]

That's at the very least 3-A for CSSB tier characters.

But Low 2-C would be the most accurate option, if not outright 2-C.

Agree

 

[Tyranno223]

Yeah he said he's done with the universe, but after that he threatened Goku with destroying the galaxy, and not the universe. Heck he even built it up, making it quite clear a galactic wide attack is still impressive to him.

If you want a comparison, it's like a person saying they're done with the world and then destroying their room, it's not proof of universal might.

 

[Tyranno223]

Also he made it quite clear he's not done with the plan, after the scan above, in the next panel he emphasised his desire to exterminate mortals, with no mention to just blowing up existence.

 

[Master_Xar]

Yeah he said he's done with the universe, but after that he threatened Goku with destroying the galaxy, and not the universe. Heck he even built it up, making it quite clear a galactic wide attack is still impressive to him.

If you want a comparison, it's like a person saying they're done with the world and then destroying their room, it's not proof of universal might.

As far as that's concerned they can still scale back their attacks, their potency at which you stated was already WAY above a single galactic attack

 

[Tyranno223]

Oh and one last thing, his final words are even about not letting his plan end (sorry about the multi posts, I was rereading the manga while typing)

 

[Dragomer]

He was talking about blowing up the galaxy along with Goku, nothing he said imply 'oh, i will forever stop after destroying that galaxy with you', that's really stretching it.

But it's a proof that they don't plan to preserve the world, making any statement about stopping them from destroying other worlds a statement about destruction, not their weird plan.

 

[Master_Xar]

Also he made it quite clear he's not done with the plan, after the scan above, in the next panel he emphasised his desire to exterminate mortals, with no mention to just blowing up existence.

Destroying the universe eclipse s that goal as well he destroys the timeline, he destroys them.

 

[Tyranno223]

Yeah the potency may be superior, but that dosen't change the fact it's an anti feat for his ability to destroy a universe when his range is supposedly somewhere around a galactic scale. It casts doubt on the idea of him wiping out universes with singular blows (plus there is also the fact he has an infinitely growing army of himself, meaning it's likely that even if he genuinely wants to destroy all creation, he's gonna have his army do it over time rather than randomly gaining the power to nuke everything)

 

[Dragomer]

It's not an anti-feat, blowing up someone with Goku's durability and having enough left over to take out a galaxy isn't an anti feat at all, especialy when nothing state he is unable to do more.

We also litteraly saw SSJG Goku in the manga having universal + range anyway so that's a moot point.

 

[Tyranno223]

You're missing the point, I'm not saying he'll stop destroying everything, I'm saying his range seems to be capped out at a galactic level for a singular attack, which makes it strange for him to be able to wipe out a universe in one attack. Plus if he does want to destroy all existence, he's likely gonna have his infinite selves destroy parts of it over time, making them more like Gah Lak Tus than Galactus.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Personally I'm iffy on the 2-C scaling, Bill Cipher is rated as low 2-C despite being stated at least twice (I think?) to be a major threat to an at least 2-A structure and yet he isn't rated 2-A (even despite having 2-A range with his hax) and this is just one example.

Personally feats as well as context > statements imo, unless there's more supporting evidence given, I find it dubious to upgrade characters based on a couple statements but maybe that's just me.

 

[Tyranno223]

Fair enough about SSJ Godku but that was just shaking the universe, not destroying the universe.

Also it's very unlikely he could do more since Vegeta mentions Zamasu is at his limit.

 

[Dragomer]

Nothing ever say or put a cap on his range and we have a MUCH weaker character with universal range so it's a moot point.

It doesn't make it strange because that's not the cap of his range nor AP.

Except there aren't an infinite army of himself, he got blown up and those different parts regenerated, also we somehow assume he's gonna blow himself up again and again, that doesn't make much sense, especialy when the context of the statements doesn't go along with it at all.

 

[Master_Xar]

Yeah the potency may be superior, but that dosen't change the fact it's an anti feat for his ability to destroy a universe when his range is supposedly somewhere around a galactic scale. It casts doubt on the idea of him wiping out universes with singular blows (plus there is also the fact he has an infinitely growing army of himself, meaning it's likely that even if he genuinely wants to destroy all creation, he's gonna have his army do it over time rather than randomly gaining the power to nuke everything)

His range scales to Universal too, Goku and Beerus already established that. As far as his clones that's more or less assuming that they don't have that power as well to destroy on a 2-C scale.

 

[Tyranno223]

By the way I'm not doubting Zamasu has higher than galactic level attack potency (he's ranked at multi-galactic and I believe he should be universal), but he shouldn't be placed at 2C or even Low 2C for a statement he either likely can't do instantly, or will likely do over time with his literally infinite copies of himself (which the original post left out)

 

[ChosenOrDeath]

Kale being that strong is an outlier considering Kefla was only as strong as Gohan. Unless Gohan could just stomp Goku and Vegeta at that point

 

[Dragomer]

Nothing say he can't do instantly, the urgency of it even say otherwise because if he couldn't do it instantly from that point on, Goku and Vegeta could just come back to fight him against like they did before.

And once again, he doesn't have an infinite army of himself.

 

[Master_Xar]

By the way I'm not doubting Zamasu has higher than galactic level attack potency (he's ranked at multi-galactic and I believe he should be universal), but he shouldn't be placed at 2C or even Low 2C for a statement he either likely can't do instantly, or will likely do over time with his literally infinite copies of himself (which the original post left out)

Goku and Vegeta by that point chose to stay and fight, and assuming clones are 2-C their overtime destruction still results in them being 2-C due to an unknown amount of timelines that exist in total, there is a reason why Zeno was called to destroy him quickly.

 

[Tyranno223]

Sorry, I meant to say infinitely growing, and he dosen't need to be damaged to make copies (at least later on) since his number of copies drastically increases even without taking damage (unless he damaged himself, at which point it's still constabtly growing). Also the manga literally makes a point of saying the threat is urgent since Zamasu has a time machine in universe 12 to follow Goku and Vegeta, it's not like the anime where Zamasu is an instant threat to all creation, but rather because Zamasu has a constantly growing army

 

[Tyranno223]

Zamasu dosen't need to destroy the timelines, he just needs to wipe out the matter if he wants to "destroy the world".

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

I mean that's the burden of proof to say otherwise since the only 2-C feat (at that time) comes from Zeno himself and ofc none of the above mentioned characters scale to him for obvious reasons.

Like I said upscaling tier 3 characters that have only shown tier 3 feats, to tier 2 based on a couple of brief statements at the very end of an arc and some assumptions, doesn't seem like stable scaling to me.

 

[Tyranno223]

Besides dosen't this wiki make a point of not upgrading characters off of singular statements? It's why a lot of upgrades don't go through.

 

[Master_Xar]

Zamasu dosen't need to destroy the timelines, he just needs to wipe out the matter if he wants to "destroy the world".

"World" in Japanese has several different meanings, one referring to timeline or more or less everything that exists.

 

[Tyranno223]

What axiom said

 

[Tyranno223]

Bit of a junp to assume world in this context specifically means timeline, especially since this chapter alone only refers to the timeline as a world when Zeno destroys the future (which made Zamasu shat himself), whereas Zamasu refers to the parallel worlds in context to the other universes (wherein destroying the universe can be split into context of matter destruction and space-time destruction), with Zamasu making a clear distinction between parallel world and the past, aka a timeline.

 

[Dragomer]

Sorry, I meant to say infinitely growing, and he dosen't need to be damaged to make copies (at least later on) since his number of copies drastically increases even without taking damage (unless he damaged himself, at which point it's still constabtly growing). Also the manga literally makes a point of saying the threat is urgent since Zamasu has a time machine in universe 12 to follow Goku and Vegeta, it's not like the anime where Zamasu is an instant threat to all creation, but rather because Zamasu has a constantly growing army

No, take a look at the actual scans, Goku say 'is it okay to leave him alive, he'll destroy the paralel worlds !', he isn't saying 'Zamasu will follow us' at all and clearly it's not overtime because they'd just come back if it was.

No, it only look to increase because Toyotaro doesn't bother keeping the numbers consistent.

No, everyone use 'paralels worlds' for other timelines, Goku does it, Beerus and Whis do it, paralels world clearly stand for timelines and Zamasu even respond to Goku using the same 'paralel world' thing.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Bill cipher isn't 2-A because he wasn't going to destroy the Multiverse, only remove its Law or something like that

 

[Tyranno223]

If you looked at the next scan you would realise Zamasu differentiates between past and parallel world. At this point, at the risk of sounding rude, I'm going to have to ask you to recheck the manga for context

 

[Tyranno223]

Read the original post's scan for 2c first

 

[Dragomer]

If you looked at the next scan you would realise Zamasu differentiates between past and parallel world. At this point, at the risk of sounding rude, I'm going to have to ask you to recheck the manga for context

I think you don't understand : those two statement are seperated and 'the past' refer to Goku's timeline specificaly, not all timelines are the past, when Goku talked about Zamasu's ability to destroy paralel worlds, he wasn't talking about Zamasu following them and stopping them from coming back later so Goku clearly didn't mean Zamasu could only do it overtime.

You litteraly have Whis directly saying that having to many paralels worlds isn't good, they don't mean universes since the universes in a single timeline can't increase.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Bill cipher isn't 2-A because he wasn't going to destroy the Multiverse, only remove its Law or something like that

That's why context needs to be closely examined and this is partly why Bill got downgraded (I believe being able to warp space and/or alter the laws/concepts/reality etc on an X amount of scale can be used as supporting evidence tho).

 

[Tyranno223]

The statements are literally one after another. He goes "not just parallel worlds", and then spouts off his plan to spread to other timelines.



Also stop ignoring the more likely idea that Zamasu is a threat to the world because he'll destroy it with army instead of with a single/few blasts. It's way more likely he'll just attack the world's matter instead of time-space, especially since he wants to destroy mortals, and not existence, as noted above ans below.


Btw 2C likely won't be accepted either way. Even if the statement does have evidence of 2C power, it's a one-off statement and not even a feat, and this wiki never jumps tiers without either proper backing or supporting feats.