Ben 10 - Low 1-C Time Stream Proposal

[Reiner04]

Like e.g bigger than 2-A and still 2-A.

Oh doesn't exist. Bigger than 2A is low 1C as being bigger than countable infinite is uncountable infinite and it's stated in our FAQ. And we were just waiting for Ultima to confirm that premise of the OP is right. Which he did. Even off site and even here.

 

[Reiner04]

Like e.g bigger than 2-A and still 2-A.

Oh I mistook you. I am saying that if verse is kinda illogical like saying 2 times infinite is bigger than infinite as it is not possible but if fiction says it, we will have to roll with it.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Not certainly have any problem with that thought, but Ultima just confirmed bigger than 2A is Low 1C unless stated otherwise as per standards.

Ultima says they dont exist unless stated otherwise by fiction yes.
Ultima also noted how the visual depiction is finite which is the troublesome part of this crt.
So both assumption holds weigh because they did not elaborate whether such thing exist or not.
The visual depiction of spacebeyond is simply insufficient and is left vague. On the otherhand timestream based on firestorm explanation has more details which completely supports it as 5D.

 

[Reiner04]

So both assumption holds weigh because they did not elaborate whether such thing exist or not

Uh, you misread ultima... What he meant is that fiction follows actual mathematics unless said franchise using some kind of vague things where bigger than 2A while not being infinite is possible which we don't default things to.

For the visual part. Yes, ultima is uncertain if we can use visual in this case which he left to others in this thread. So it's all about if you think visual is credible in this case.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Uh, you misread ultima... What he meant is that fiction follows actual mathematics unless said franchise using some kind of vague things where bigger than 2A while not being infinite is possible which we don't default things to.

For the visual part. Yes, ultima is uncertain if we can use visual in this case which he left to others in this thread. So it's all about if you think visual is credible in this case.

I did not misread. (you made me read it again)
And as he said. Mathematics do not tackle ontological difference which is another definitive proof of superiority. As also said by Everything12 earlier in the thread. We don't just use math alone to determine tiers. We use a combination of those and application. And clearly the application of visual depiction is insufficient in my opinion except the Time Stream hence my disagreement.

Yes we stated it as larger but if we apply it as if it is a physical 3D space that can be viewed by 3D being from a far off distance and not because of the nature of space beyond allowing one to perceive them with ontological difference. (Like they are merely wallpaper of a cylindrical wall similar to Time Stream). Hence why i believe Time Stream on itself has better application to qualify as solid 5D/Low 1-C unlike space beyond.

 

[Reiner04]

I did not misread. (you made me read it again)
And as he said. Mathematics do not tackle ontological difference which is another definitive proof of superiority. As also said by Everything12 earlier in the thread. We don't just use math alone to determine tiers. We use a combination of those and application. And clearly the application of visual depiction is insufficient in my opinion except the Time Stream hence my disagreement.

Yes we stated it as larger but if we apply it as if it is a physical 3D space that can be viewed by 3D being from a far off distance and not because of the nature of space beyond allowing one to perceive them with ontological difference. (Like they are merely wallpaper of a cylindrical wall similar to Time Stream). Hence why i believe Time Stream on itself has better application to qualify as solid 5D/Low 1-C unlike space beyond.

Uh i see, it's fine then (I was just clarifying in case you misread but ig I misunderstood).

 

[Reiner04]

Okay then.

Ant, ultima replied, can you give any judgement based off what he said? As regardless deadlock is still there but now a conclusion can be reached after everything is clear now.

 

[Antvasima]

Ant, ultima replied, can you give any judgement based off what he said? As regardless deadlock is still there but now a conclusion can be reached after everything is clear now.

Well, it seemed like Ultima agreed with this upgrade, although can any of you clarify which staff and knowledgeable members that have agreed with what here so far please?

 

[Reiner04]

Well, it seemed like Ultima agreed with this upgrade, although can any of you clarify which staff and knowledgeable members that have agreed with what here so far please?

Well, ultima didn't necessarily agreed to the thread, he said premise of the thread that significantly bigger than 2A is low 1C is correct. But he is not sure if we can use visuals in this case and left it to other mods. Although everyone here except @Everything12 agreed that visual can be used as it's supported by evidence. So... I thought to clarify it that Ultima remains neutral from start off site to now so that it don't create misunderstanding.

 

[Reiner04]

Well, it seemed like Ultima agreed with this upgrade, although can any of you clarify which staff and knowledgeable members that have agreed with what here so far please?

And about knowledagle members, elizhaa agreed, pain agreed, sir ovens (also a knowledgeable member but didn't list himself), DDM, Darkgrath Agreed, firestorm agreed, me as well have understanding of tier 1 knew that premise is correct.

So only thing I want to ask, Do you think visuals can be used in this case? For better perspective I'll clarify it that it is supported by statements by being called star and thin glow. Because I think regardless it is something that only you can approve....

 

[Reiner04]

Should we apply the changes as per ultima suggestion with taking into account that majority of staff except @Everything12 agreed to the usage of visuals?

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose that this thread seems to have been accepted then. Based on Ultima's post, I have likely misunderstood some parts of how comparative infinities work.

 

[Reiner04]

I suppose that this threadseems to have been accepted then. Based on Ultima's post, I have likely misunderstood some parts of how comparative infinities works.

It's fine, I am glad that I was given a chance. @Firestorm808 will proceed with the changes this crt has affected.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That is good then.

 

[Firestorm808]

I will go ahead and revise the cosmology blog accordingly.

Any scaling will be done in a later thread.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for helping out.

 

[Qawsedf234]

But, in ben 10 context it show and stated the 2A structure (universe) is just a "star" or little glow compare to the space beyond. It will make the universe is just small portion of the space beyond existence

Even then, that wouldn't make it Low 1-C. A 2-A Multiverse could be embedded into another 2-A multiverse without the larger multiverse being Low 1-C.

 

[omegabronic]

well, we still have the time stream seeing the space beyond as flat

 

[Reiner04]

Qawasedf meant that it has to be bigger than 2-A, he was correcting fixxed.

 

[Antvasima]

Even then, that wouldn't make it Low 1-C. A 2-A Multiverse could be embedded into another 2-A multiverse without the larger multiverse being Low 1-C.

It seems like Qawsedf234 also has some concerns here.

 

[Reiner04]

It seems like Qawsedf234 also has some concerns here.

He meant that a 2A universe can be inside 2A universe w/o being low 1C, was correcting a minor mistake. The later has to be larger

 

[Antvasima]

Even then, that wouldn't make it Low 1-C. A 2-A Multiverse could be embedded into another 2-A multiverse without the larger multiverse being Low 1-C.

It seems like Qawsedf234 also has some concerns here.

He meant that a 2A universe can be inside 2A universe w/o being low 1C, was correcting a minor mistake. The later has to be larger

@Qawsedf234

Is this correct?

 

[Fixxed]

Even then, that wouldn't make it Low 1-C. A 2-A Multiverse could be embedded into another 2-A multiverse without the larger multiverse being Low 1-C.

Yes, but in ben 10 case the 2A structure is small compare to it

 

[Qawsedf234]

Is this correct?

As far as I understand you can have a lower infinite embedded into a higher infinite without going into another tier.

Something being small in a space would just make it above baseline 2-A unless it exists on a lower dimensional segment. Just being small isn't enough.

 

[Reiner04]

Something being small in a space would just make it above baseline 2-A unless it exists on a lower dimensional segment. Just being small isn't enough.

But that is why we were waiting for Ultima to confirm if the premise of the thread is right, he himself said that being bigger than 2A or countable infinity is low 1C aka uncountable infinity. It is also stated in our FAQ which I have already quoted in the thread many times. He also confirmed me off site but I wanted him to say it here which he did. Both off site conversation and site confirmation of the premise is present.

 

[Antvasima]

Which staff members have thought what in this thread so far?

 

[Reiner04]

Which staff members have thought what in this thread so far?

Agree: DDM, Darkgrath, Firestorm, Elizhaa, Ultima (with the premise of the thread), sir ovens.

Disagree: everything 12, maverick, qwasedf

 

[Antvasima]

Agree: DDM, Darkgrath, Firestorm, Elizhaa, Ultima (with the premise of the thread), sir ovens.

Disagree: everything 12, maverick, qwasedf

Hmm. I would much prefer if the two staff sides to this issue try to reach a greater consensus, as the results here seem a bit too split at this point.

@DarkDragonMedeus @DarkGrath @Firestorm808 @Elizhaa @Ultima_Reality @Sir_Ovens @Everything12 @Maverick_Zero_X @Qawsedf234

Would you be willing to discuss this issue with each other in an openminded manner please?

 

[Firestorm808]

Agree: DDM, Darkgrath, Firestorm, Elizhaa, Ultima (with the premise of the thread), sir ovens.

Disagree: everything 12, maverick, qwasedf

Qwasedf's disagree is only for The Space Beyond.

 

[Reiner04]

Qwasedf's disagree is only for The Space Beyond.

Oh. Then ig he has no problem with timestream.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Do both options result in the same tier?

 

[Firestorm808]

Okay. Do both options result in the same tier?

Yes. The others have also agreed to Low 1-C for the Fabric of Existance and the Time Stream.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I suppose that this revision can probably proceed in lack of better options then.

My apologies, @Everything12 and @Maverick_Zero_X .

 

[Firestorm808]

Thank you, everyone for your participation.

The next thread will be in regards to relevant scaling to these changes.