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Ben 10 - Low 1-C Time Stream Proposal

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Reiner said:
Of course, the same levels of superiority can also be reached via sufficiently explicit quantitative statements, such as when cardinalities above countably infinite get involved in a manner that implies a corresponding difference in power/size.

Right here in your Quote. This is all the thread is about, being bigger than countable infinite structure, I am not misreading anything.
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Not being bigger than countable infinite, but being a cardinality above countable infinity. Which is a bit of a different thing and is uncountable infinity.
 
Everything12 said:
Not being bigger than countable infinite, but being a cardinality above countable infinity. Which is a bit of a different thing and is uncountable infinity.
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That's it. That's all thing is there. Bigger than countable infinite is uncountable infinite.

For the same logic we don't have infinite times 2A bigger than 2A because it's not bigger. This was the reason for all the upgrades based of sizes bigger than 2A.
Man
 
Cardinality is nothing more than elements in the set. Like 4 oranges, 4 bananas. Same with number of universes.
 
Pretty sure we haven't really gotten anywhere despite all that has been said. This all comes down to a disagreement about how countable and uncountable infinity works and only a knowledgeable third party is going to be able to help solve this deadlock.
 
Man....
We just agreed on cardinality Bigger than 2A is low 1C....
I am sleepy we all know what cardinality is, let's end it already.

Cardinality is just number of elements in the set.
 
Everything12 said:
Pretty sure we haven't really gotten anywhere despite all that has been said. This all comes down to a disagreement about how countable and uncountable infinity works and only a knowledgeable third party is going to be able to help solve this deadlock.
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@DontTalkDT

Are you willing to help out here please? We seem to be in a circular deadlock.

You can obviously ask questions for clarifications regarding the current arguments here.
 
Greenshifter said:
While this is correct, the premise of this thread is that something bigger than a 2-A structure is by default infinitely bigger, since there are no in-betweens at this scale.
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I do not think that is true, and that it would likely set a very bad precedent for the rest of our wiki if we set such a standard here.
 
Antvasima said:
I do not think that is true, and that it would likely set a very bad precedent for the rest of our wiki if we set such a standard here.
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I understand it and so, the most important thing after that is "the space beyond is not just bigger but sees those universes as nothing more than tiny stars/thin glow and something that has been compared to "nothing" in the space beyond. The difference is so significantly big that it wouldn't affect the matter.
 
Antvasima said:
I do not think that is true, and that it would likely set a very bad precedent for the rest of our wiki if we set such a standard here.
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Tbh, I personally don’t agree with it either. However the precedent and standards have been long set ever since DC’s multiverse became baseline 2-A a long time ago.
 
Anyway, at first i wonder that: universes (multiverse)are little yıldız in a infinity void so the infinity void = low 1C you said that right? İf i misundurstand please say true
 
which means that it sees 2A as 1 at infinity but this should still be far from low 1C according to the layering system because being infinitely larger than an infinity does not make a higher dimensional infinity
 
Anyway, at this point, there cannot be anything said any further which will be new. Only waiting for the 3rd party is all there is to do.
 
Antvasima said:
I do not think that is true, and that it would likely set a very bad precedent for the rest of our wiki if we set such a standard here.
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It is very much true Ant and alot of verses are Low 1C based on it. Infinities works in entirely different way than finites, at this scale being bigger or larger entirely outclasses the previous infinity on a lvl that can't be transversed.
Screenshot_2023_0112_125113.png
 
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I can understand that if a Tier 2 Structure visually takes up more than half of a larger space, we wouldn't consider it Tier 1.

However, if the Tier 2 Structure looks minuscule in comparison, then there is some justification there.
 
Firestorm808 said:
I can understand that if a Tier 2 Structure visually takes up more than half of a larger space, we wouldn't consider it Tier 1.

However, if the Tier 2 Structure looks minuscule in comparison, then there is some justification there.
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Yeah, the point is it has to be significantly dwarf the 2A structure that space beyond do. It's so big that it's almost or entirely empty while containing infinite 2A structures as nothing more than tiny stars, they all together infact doesn't fill the space is just....

Just as everything 12 stated, it has been accepted and acceptable that 2A structure being microscopic in comparison to some space is low 1C and the justification is same that it's bigger than 2A (significantly), even our body cells are microscopic comparison to our body but that doesn't mean our body is infinite directly? Our body just contains 30+ trillions cells.
 
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If being microcosm (small world's) 2A compared to the space they're in is acceptable. Then it's literally the same situation.
 
Well it's true that microcosm does have a bit of leeway in how it can be interpreted, so context for what it means is improtant. But in Maou Gakuin's case it's not a smaller world, it is smaller copy.

This is kinda hard to explain and I might be messing this up, but it's like a 2-A realm to the 2-A realm and so treats it as infinitesimal in comparison to itself.
 
Everything12 said:
The whole context around the microcosm statement and Nafta or whatever that realm is called.
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??? Dread said in this thread that there is statement about the 2A being smaller. You yourself said that it's need to be microcosm. And the cases are entirely similar.
 
Context is important, and sometimes understand is not off a single statement, but built up from multiple explanations that allow you to develop a understanding of the cosmology from piecing all it's aspects together.

Long story short the difference between the 2-A Nafta and the bubble it's a microcosm of is infinite.
 
So which staff members have currently helped out in this thread?
 
Thank you. Can you remind us regarding the premises for the space beyond and time stream arguments please? I only recall that I thought that Everything12 seems to make sense here, and that simply being larger than a 2-A structure does not automatically qualify for a Low 1-C rating.
 
Antvasima said:
Thank you. Can you remind us regarding the premises for the space beyond and time stream arguments please? I only recall that I thought that Everything12 seems to make sense here, and that simply being larger than a 2-A structure does not automatically qualify for a Low 1-C rating.
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We are currently waiting for ultima or DT since 2 pages as the premise of the thread is supported by FAQ and is based off various QnA done before answered by ultima or DT. So it'll be better to wait as has been said before. As ridiculous it sounds, infinities are the matter of sounds ridiculous when think simplistically.
There is no conclusion but only disagreement btw how infinities works.
 
Reiner said:
Microcosm literally means something small, it doesn't even go upto explain anything at all.... If that was all the reason, it can apply here
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Microcosm typically refers to something in relation to a Macrocosm.

For example, a Macrocosm would be the Universe, and a Microcosm would be one human being who resides within the Universe.
 
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