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Ben 10 Cosmology Downgrades & Other Things (Yes, this is happening again)

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did bro said if they're generally non canon then it means it cannot be canon even after being confirmed as canon? I see.

"We tried to keep them canon but some has strayed out. So generally no"

Yeah no comic can be canon. Even after the statement of "action packs being canon".
 
did bro said if they're generally non canon then it means it cannot be canon even after being confirmed as canon? I see.
The problem however is that only one form of evidence was provided to prove the action pack comics are canon, and that was an answer from Duncan. As Shadow brought for us, there are multiple other answers saying they are not canon.

On top of that, Duncan’s answer about the comics being canon is old, it came in 2019. His most recent answer, saying the comics aren’t canon, is from 2020.
 
On top of that, Duncan’s answer about the comics being canon is old, it came in 2019. His most recent answer, saying the comics aren’t canon, is from 2020.
"We tried to keep them canon but some has strayed out. So generally no"
This?
"Some has strayed out and so generally non canon"
doesn't ******* contradict his statement of action packs being canon and that WOG was only asked by efi, all others were fine with it being canon w/o WOG itself as of had clear connection with tv series.
 
did bro said if they're generally non canon then it means it cannot be canon even after being confirmed as canon?
What makes you think that Dwayne and Charlotte weren't referring to Action Packs when they were talking about comics involving Ben 10 being non-canon? because I don't remember them making an excuse for something like "this one is canonical but this one isn't" they went out there and stated that they aren't canon and again that would be just taking Duncan's word for it and ignoring other writers...
plus that, Duncan often contradicts himself like in his most recent answer where he is more direct and says the comics are not canon what makes you think that this would not include the Action Packs? there isn't an excuse where they say "one is canonical but othe other is not" and like Kukui said, the Ben 10 wogs often is pretty vague and tends to contradicts itself...
 
What makes you think that Dwayne and Charlotte weren't referring to Action Packs when they were talking about comics involving Ben 10 being non-canon? because I don't remember them making an excuse for something like "this one is canonical but this one isn't" they went out there and stated that they aren't canon and again that would be just taking Duncan's word for it and ignoring other writers...
plus that, Duncan often contradicts himself like in his most recent answer where he is more direct and says the comics are not canon what makes you think that this would not include the action packs? there isn't an excuse where they say "one is canonical but othe other is not"
That had be on you to prove that duncan was referring to action packs as well, as he clearly said that "some has strayed out" not all of them. And as I said, efi already seconded in this thread that answer about something being canon or non canon is just as it is.
 
This?
"Some has strayed out and so generally non canon"
doesn't ******* contradict his statement of action packs being canon and that WOG was only asked by efi, all others were find with it being canon w/o WOG itself as of had clear connection with tv series.
Because not all of this information was taken into account when that canonicity thread was made about the action pack comic.

At bare minimum, this requires you to give other even stronger evidence to prove the comic you want to use in particular is canon, and at worst, this throws all of them out by default. Selectively choosing amongst them is cherry picking.
 
Because not all of this information was taken into account when that canonicity thread was made about the action pack comic.

At bare minimum, this requires you to give other even stronger evidence to prove the comic you want to use in particular is canon, and at worst, this throws all of them out by default. Selectively choosing amongst them is cherry picking.
As I said, prove that duncan said "all of the comics are non canon", he said "some has strayed out" that doesn't mean anything like contradiction you are claiming. Burden of proof lies on the one who makes the claim don't just ******* take side or U turn for each person trynna giving 2 cents on downgrade w/o using 2 cents of honesty. Claiming in the OP that I am fine with comic being canon w/o wog and then taking a huge U turn.
 
As I said, prove that duncan said "all of the comics are non canon", he said "some has strayed out" that doesn't mean anything like contradiction you are claiming. Burden of proof lies on the one who makes the claim.
That’s not how this works, as this is reversing the burden of proof here.

For one, it’s not only Duncan saying the comics aren’t canon, other creators repeat this claim too.

Second, what do you think “generally” would be referring to? It would be pointing to all of the comics as a whole under normal circumstances.

And third, it doesn’t matter if it was said all aren’t or “some” aren’t. You are the one that’s claiming this particular comic with Ben and Rex is canon in the first place. THAT has to be sufficiently proven first before we need to provide evidence against its canonicity.
 
Second, what do you think “generally” would be referring to?
Some that has been strayed out? Answer is in the answer itself.
You are the one that’s claiming this particular comic with Ben and Rex is canon in the first place. THAT has to be sufficiently proven first before we need to provide evidence against its canonicity.
Action packs are canon statement, done. Thank you very much. Now leaving it, feel free to convince staff that it is non canon. I have 5 staff agreement on it being canon. I am done.
 
That’s not how this works, as this is reversing the burden of proof here.

For one, it’s not only Duncan saying the comics aren’t canon, other creators repeat this claim too.
he said that some are not canon, while saying the action packs are, therefore the action packs are part of the bunch that is canon

Second, what do you think “generally” would be referring to? It would be pointing to all of the comics as a whole under normal circumstances.
no it wouldn't
gen·er·al·ly
/ˈjen(ə)rəlē/

adverb

  1. 1.
    in most cases; usually.
    "the term of a lease is generally 99 years"

  2. 2.
    in general terms; without regard to particulars or exceptions.
    "a decade when France was moving generally to the left"
in most cases the comics are not canon, but in this case we have him speaking of one of the exceptions

And third, it doesn’t matter if it was said all aren’t or “some” aren’t. You are the one that’s claiming this particular comic with Ben and Rex is canon in the first place. THAT has to be sufficiently proven first before we need to provide evidence against its canonicity.
it already was
 
As I said, prove that duncan said "all of the comics are non canon", he said "some has strayed out" that doesn't mean anything like contradiction you are claiming. Burden of proof lies on the one who makes the claim don't just ******* take side or U turn for each person trynna giving 2 cents on downgrade w/o using 2 cents of honesty. Claiming in the OP that I am fine with comic being canon w/o wog and then taking a huge U turn.
Man, you're only taking the first sentence into account, right after he says "no" that he doesn't consider the comics being canonical to the show anymore. He literally considers the Ben 10 comics non-canon, so why would we consider the Action Packs still canon? becuz he said they were canon in an old answer? what makes you think that answer from 2019 didn't got retconned in this answer from 2020... also, with that we would have Dwayne, Duncan and Charlotte not considering the comics not being canon, I would say that 3 series staff is enough for we not considering the comics being canon anymore.
 
Man, you're only taking the first sentence into account, right after he says "no" that he doesn't consider the comics being canonical to the show. He literally considers the Ben 10 comics non-canon, so why would we consider the Action Packs still canon? becuz he said they were canon in an old answer? what makes you think that answer from 2019 didn't got retconned in this answer from 2020... also, with that we would have Dwayne, Duncan and Charlotte not considering the comics not being canon, I would say that 3 series staff is enough for we not considering the comics being canon anymore.
Efi was aware of MC duffie statement. He read the @Maverick_Zero_X Answer and still seconded it that this comic is canon. The point is that writers do not hold rights over canonicity over the published things. That's common sense. It's decided by those who holds the rights of the content.
 
Man, you're only taking the first sentence into account, right after he says "no" that he doesn't consider the comics being canonical to the show.
he says "generally" aka "in most cases but there are exceptions"

He literally considers the Ben 10 comics non-canon, so why would we consider the Action Packs still canon?
because he said so?

becuz he said they were canon in an old answer? what makes you think that answer from 2019 didn't got retconned in this answer from 2020...
the fact that the answer does not retcon anything
 
Anyway, Donttalkdt said he'll reply (today or tomorrow). So don't create a mess. When you all are done with your things unless you want to repeat yourself.
 
he said that some are not canon, while saying the action packs are, therefore the action packs are part of the bunch that is canon

He never said this. This is, in quotes, his answer to the question about the comics:

“We’ve tried to keep them cannon, but some have strayed out of it. So overall, I’d say no”

The very fact he said “overall” literally means he’s saying no about the comics in general being canon. Otherwise, he wouldnt have given all of them a generalization as to their canonicity.

And using an old answer a year before this one doesn’t debunk this point.
no it wouldn't
gen·er·al·ly
/ˈjen(ə)rəlē/

adverb

  1. 1.
    in most cases; usually.
    "the term of a lease is generally 99 years"

  2. 2.
    in general terms; without regard to particulars or exceptions.
    "a decade when France was moving generally to the left"
in most cases the comics are not canon, but in this case we have him speaking of one of the exceptions
Thanks for proving my point. In most cases, the comics aren’t canon then. It’s a normalized standard for them to not be canon. Therefore, none of the comics would be canon.

Your only piece of evidence provided to make this one particular action pack comic with Ben and Rex an exception to this rule is an old answer Duncan gave and it gets overruled by his most recent one.
it already was

It wasn’t. That answer gets overruled by his newest one, and arguing the newer answer doesn’t include action pack comics is textbook cherry picking the answer to get what you want to use.

And at the end of the day, even with the biggest benefit of the doubt, this is the word of one creator vs at least two other ones who stand by the same claim that the comics are not canon too.
 
Okay then, no need to flood it to 10 pages. It's done as I can just repeat what I said above. Let the staff decide if ben statement and holiday statement combined is enough for 2B universe or possibly 2A universe.
 
He never said this. This is, in quotes, his answer to the question about the comics:

“We’ve tried to keep them cannon, but some have strayed out of it. So overall, I’d say no”

The very fact he said “overall” literally means he’s saying no about the comics in general being canon. Otherwise, he wouldnt have given all of them a generalization as to their canonicity.

And using an old answer a year before this one doesn’t debunk this point.
overal means "in general rather than in particular" so again it is open to exceptions

Thanks for proving my point. In most cases, the comics aren’t canon then. It’s a normalized standard for them to not be canon. Therefore, none of the comics would be canon.
well said, In most cases, aka there are exeptions, and we know that the action packed are one of those since we have confirmation of it

Your only piece of evidence provided to make this one particular action pack comic with Ben and Rex an exception to this rule is an old answer Duncan gave and it gets overruled by his most recent one.
it doesn't get overlured tho, since he never that no comic was canon

It wasn’t. That answer gets overruled by his newest one, and arguing the newer answer doesn’t include action pack comics is textbook cherry picking the answer to get what you want to use.
read above

gonna stop answering now because:
Okay then, no need to flood it to 10 pages. It's done as I can just repeat what I said above. Let the staff decide if ben statement and holiday statement combined is enough for 2B universe or possibly 2A universe.
 
overal means "in general rather than in particular" so again it is open to exceptions

well said, In most cases, aka there are exeptions, and we know that the action packed are one of those since we have confirmation of it

it doesn't get overlured tho, since he never that no comic was canon
Having nothing left to say than this than what’s already said. This is headcanon and extreme cherry picking to selectively choose this comic because of evidence you want to use.

The evidence of its canonicity is very contradictory and with the new information provided by Shadow, I’m now against that comic being used for anything, so disagreeing with 2-B.
 
I'm against possibly 2-A universes too becuz of the whole Holiday thing already discussed, and i find 2-B universes shaky since it's based on a single line from Ben in a comic. I saw the thread where we decided to make the Ben and Rex comic canon and also Duncan's words in Twitter about trying to find a connection between the series to make the comics canon (as well as his words about the Action Packs) but the wogs in Ben 10 are pretty contradictory since Dwayne McDuffie was also asked about the canonicity about the comics

So, even though the comic features an important Ben 10 staff, which in this case would be Eugene Son (which was one of the arguments used to approve the canonicity of this comic) Dwayne still denies that these stories are canonical to the Ben 10 show. Not only that but we also have Charlotte Fullerton (another Ben 10 staff member) saying that the Ben 10 comics aren't canon to the show even with them trying to connect events to try to make things work and make them canonical.

So my question is, why do we only take Duncan's word in that thread? Duncan contradicts himself many times like in his most recent answer about the comics where he was more direct and said that they tried to keep them canon but things didn't work out so he says he wouldn't consider the comics canon (and that includes the Ben and Rex crossover).

So, the Ben 10 wogs tend to contradict each other but in general the directors themselves don't consider the comics being canonical, i don't know if such a change would require another CRT or we can deal with it in this thread, but in my view the universes should be kept as 2-C since the 2-B would come from a comic that is clearly not canon (which would be Ben's line that there are millions of dimensions).

If the comics are not considered canonical by the people in charge of the old Ben 10 show, it seems unreliable to use them.
 
If the comics are not considered canonical by the people in charge of the old Ben 10 show, it seems unreliable to use them.
It is all about the statement that mc duffie made, that only show is canon, it is one of many statements (he also had some statements at that time like alien x cannot win against garou and all) that has been discarded later on by WOG like duncan who actually holds a right over establishing something as canon and something as non canon. Also that most of the staff members were fine with this particular comic being canon as it evident the events of the show before the show episode itself and thus creating a connection of it with regular episode. It was througly explained in the thread that why this comic is canon but efi asked that he will only take direct statement of WOG (he was aware of mc duffie statement but that had be rejecting most of our profiles and scaling we have on ben 10).
 
As discussed in the original comic thread, only comics supported by the original source material are considered canon.

But the problem, as I reiterated above, is that the thread where you guys got the Action Pack comic with the 2-B statement considered canon, didn’t have all of this information taken into account before you got it accepted as canon.

The one single statement of Duncan saying it’s canon is what got it accepted.

And now, thanks to the information Shadow provided, that statement has multiple other contradicting statements against it. So the canonicity of the comics gets called into question now
 
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But the problem, as I reiterated above, is that the thread where you guys got the Action Pack comic with the 2-B statement considered canon, didn’t have all of this information taken into account before you got it accepted as canon.

The one single statement of Duncan saying it’s canon is what got it accepted.

And now, thanks to the information Shadow provided, that statement has multiple other contradicting statements against it. So the canonicity of the comics gets called into question now
Repeated... Anyway,
Yeah about duncan, nothing contradicts it and I and @omegabronic already told above why. There are dozens of comics on ben 10 but only action packs are canon (exception) as per statement, all other are falls under generally. Now let's leave flooding more pages and let Donttalk decide. It gonna take him forever reading things that has been repeated thousand times
 
And as I’ve already explained why, that’s blatant cherry picking of the answers to apply what you want to use as evidence and just headcanoning what you want the answer to mean for you.

Your welcome to disagree with that, but at the end of the day, I’m clearly not the only one who sees this as an issue to call into question
 
As discussed in the original comic thread, only comics supported by the original source material are considered canon.
But why? it's been said by two staff that they tried to keep things supported by the source material (like you said) connected to the events of the main story


But that in the end, they ended up not taking the comics as canon. So why would we still take it as canonical if that same argument of being supported by the source material was taken into account by them and even then, they still considered the comics to be non-canon?
 
But why? it's been said by two staff that they tried to keep things supported by the source material (like you said) connected to the events of the main story


But that in the end, they ended up not taking the comics as canon. So why would we still take it as canonical if that same argument of being supported by the source material was taken into account by them and even then, they considered the comics to be non-canon?
He was talking about comics that has been strayed out, like parallel paradox and others, this comic hasn't and in the end they're just generally non canon unless we have direct statement of it being canon.
 
And as I’ve already explained why, that’s blatant cherry picking of the answers to apply what you want to use as evidence and just headcanoning what you want the answer to mean for you.

Your welcome to disagree with that, but at the end of the day, I’m clearly not the only one who sees this as an issue to call into question
That's what I am saying, end up disagreeing with me. Be done and don't keep repeating to flood it unless someone ask. Now keep the chats minimum we are on the 6 to 7 pages. Reply when needed and adding up something new than what has been said.
 
But why? it's been said by two staff that they tried to keep things supported by the source material (like you said) connected to the events of the main story


But that in the end, they ended up not taking the comics as canon. So why would we still take it as canonical if that same argument of being supported by the source material was taken into account by them and even then, they considered the comics to be non-canon?
the duncan profile i already addressed
the second one is talking about a specific comic not being canon, while saying that it was not ALWAYS possible to make the comics canon, therefore some were and are canon
 
the duncan profile i already addressed
And we disagree with that. It’s wrong and outdated by a more recent answer.
the second one is talking about a specific comic not being canon, while saying that it was not ALWAYS possible to make the comics canon, therefore some were and are canon

That’s not the only screenshot. There’s another screenshot directly below it where Charlotte flat out answered “If it’s not in the show, it isn’t canon”

and this was to answer the question on whether the action pack comics are considered canon or not
 
That’s not the only screenshot. There’s another screenshot directly below it where Charlotte flat out answ
#mcduffie and all, we have seen this statement billions of times by now. We still have waybig profile with things outside of show, alien x profile with things outside of show for the simple fact that writers do not hold any authority over deciding what is canon and what is not. It's all about what those who holds rights over the show and character decide.
 
I'm against possibly 2-A universes too becuz of the whole Holiday thing already discussed, and i find 2-B universes shaky since it's based on a single line from Ben in a comic. I saw the thread where we decided to make the Ben and Rex comic canon and also Duncan's words in Twitter about trying to find a connection between the series to make the comics canon (as well as his words about the Action Packs) but the wogs in Ben 10 are pretty contradictory since Dwayne McDuffie was also asked about the canonicity about the comics

So, even though the comic features an important Ben 10 staff, which in this case would be Eugene Son (which was one of the arguments used to approve the canonicity of this comic) Dwayne still denies that these stories are canonical to the Ben 10 show. Not only that but we also have Charlotte Fullerton (another Ben 10 staff member) saying that the Ben 10 comics aren't canon to the show even with them trying to connect events to try to make things work and make them canonical.

So my question is, why do we only take Duncan's word in that thread? Duncan contradicts himself many times like in his most recent answer about the comics where he was more direct and said that they tried to keep them canon but things didn't work out so he says he wouldn't consider the comics canon (and that includes the Ben and Rex crossover).

So, the Ben 10 wogs tend to contradict each other but in general the directors themselves don't consider the comics being canonical, i don't know if such a change would require another CRT or we can deal with it in this thread, but in my view the universes should be kept as 2-C since the 2-B would come from a comic that is clearly not canon (which would be Ben's line that there are millions of dimensions).

Seems like the comics aren’t canon at all. Also another reason why we shouldn’t base massive statistics upgrades on Twitter replies.

But anyway I’m fine with the Prime Universe being 2-C.
 
Idm, as long as this thread has everything it needs and things are agreeing and disagreeing upon considering them. It's all good.
 
It is all about the statement that mc duffie made, that only show is canon, it is one of many statements (he also had some statements at that time like alien x cannot win against garou and all) that has been discarded later on by WOG like duncan who actually holds a right over establishing something as canon and something as non canon. Also that most of the staff members were fine with this particular comic being canon as it evident the events of the show before the show episode itself and thus creating a connection of it with regular episode. It was througly explained in the thread that why this comic is canon but efi asked that he will only take direct statement of WOG (he was aware of mc duffie statement but that had be rejecting most of our profiles and scaling we have on ben 10).
Okay. Understood.
 
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