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Bayonetta Verse Revisions: Low 1-C, Infinite

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Comicgyal said:
Also just because it was made to be fast, doesn’t mean other angels can’t be faster..? It’s designated as the messenger Angel because it’s designed as a car, that is its whole purpose. Doesn’t mean other angels can’t be faster.
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No other Angel has any distinction of having a speed feat on that level. And again it's whole stick is gloating about its speed in its lower piece
 
Cyberblader90 said:
That doesn't answer my question. Jubileus and other God tiers being above it in speed is fine. I'm referring to the issue literally on screen with angels that should be inherently slower than it being relative to the motorcycle. The bigger issue being the cars they are on top of being relative to it in speed
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None of the angels race directly alongside the motorcycle except for Irenic, and the cars the angels ride on always appear ahead of Bayonetta, never out speeding her. Because angels just spawn into the world, you can assume they spawned ahead of her.

Cyberblader90 said:
No other Angel has any distinction of having a speed feat on that level. And again it's whole stick is gloating about its speed in its lower piece
Click to expand...
I know, I’m just saying that it doesn’t mean other angels can’t be as fast / faster.
 
Comicgyal said:
None of the angels race directly alongside the motorcycle except for Irenic, and the cars the angels ride on always appear ahead of Bayonetta, never out speeding her. Because angels just spawn into the world, you can assume they spawned ahead of her.


I know, I’m just saying that it doesn’t mean other angels can’t be as fast / faster.
Click to expand...
Is the spawning even shown in the way you are describing?
 
For Muspelheim, what evidence is there that it's inside of paradiso? I reread the blog again and it's only the other realm that is confirmed to be part of paradiso
 
I disagree with infinite speed part unless there is a scans that proves human realm to be infinite sized.

Also Paradiso being described as "thousands of times bigger" kinda **** on the whole idea of it being infinite to begin with
 
Cyberblader90 said:
For Muspelheim, what evidence is there that it's inside of paradiso? I reread the blog again and it's only the other realm that is confirmed to be part of paradiso
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Becquse of the golden background we know it’s inside, or atleast a part of Paradiso.
 
ok i rechecked everything. i dont buy it. Per your own blog, it has different backgrounds.

1000 (1000×563) (nocookie.net)
1000 (1000×563) (nocookie.net)
1000 (1000×563) (nocookie.net)

1000 (1000×563) (nocookie.net)
Its literally just a primoradial world cut off from time, nothing proving it as part of Paradiso

and Irenic's very profile just says paradiso is Thousands of larger than the human universe, not infinite, in the very same sentence it mentions it crossing the entire distance.
1000 (1000×563) (nocookie.net)
 
Cyberblader90 said:
ok i rechecked everything. i dont buy it. Per your own blog, it has different backgrounds.

1000 (1000×563) (nocookie.net)
1000 (1000×563) (nocookie.net)
1000 (1000×563) (nocookie.net)

1000 (1000×563) (nocookie.net)
Its literally just a primoradial world cut off from time, nothing proving it as part of Paradiso

and Irenic's very profile just says paradiso is Thousands of larger than the human universe, not infinite, in the very same sentence it mentions it crossing the entire distance.
1000 (1000×563) (nocookie.net)
Click to expand...
It has different backgrounds as you progress further into it, but the first few playable settings are Paradiso themed. The area you play in is model after alfheim, and the challenges as well are similar to Alfheim.

And that’s cool, but just because it says that, it doesn’t mean that’s all Paradiso is. Thousands of times larger is just a base level of measure, especially when the human universe doesn’t have a confirmed size to begin with.
 
This is an extremely weak argument for infinite speed. Nowhere is it stated that Muspelheim is in Paradiso or a part of it unlike Alfheim, which description directly states it is, and Muspelheim's description completely implies that it's not.

Its description has no mention of Paradiso, it's stated to be a Primordial "World"/"dimension" cut off from time, it houses Demons, Witches, Sages, and Angels that fight eternally.

That's all we know. If it were meant to be a part of Paradiso it would've been stated to be so in its description.

Muspelheim is not a part of Paradiso and Irenic doesn't need to travel through it to cross Paradiso.

And I still don't understand why one part of Irenic's description is considered "wrong" while the rest is fine.
 
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The evidence for Low 1-C is fairly flimsy as others have already said and like them, I disagree with it.

As for Infinite speed, I'm neutral but while I can see it scaling only to reaction and combat speed, I'm a bit unclear as to why it wouldn't be an outlier to begin with. Ignoring the plot-breaking issues since quite a few high speed characters have this, is this speed supported by anything else?
 
The portion for Low 1-C is confusing, and the parts that I do understand don't seem like they qualify for Tier 1 in all honesty.

The infinite speed is ehh. Are there any more supporting feats that justify Infinite Speed, or is this just an outlier?
 
It's not even that it's an outlier

A part of the cosmology that may or may not actually be infinite size is being argued to be part of a separate part of the cosmology that involves the feat with no evidence
 
Disagree with Tier 1 stuff.

I am not going to even deal with Infinite speed here as it is more trouble than it's worth. Regardless, I am more on the side of disagree and to just keep it MFTL+ and nothing more.
 
Muspelheim being an infinitely sized world has already been accepted, it’s just about the inclusion of Muspelheim into Paradiso, which is already quite evident. Let’s start from the main quote.

“Have you ever heard of gates that connect worlds? It might sound like strange fiction, but the truth is these gates exist all over the world we live in. The gate that connects the three worlds and makes the foundation of our own is relatively well known, so if you're reading this, I'll just go ahead and assume you know of it; however, there are stories of doors that lead to the secret lairs of the supernatural, and I've got a great source of information I need to bring things to light.”

From the start of the quote Luka explains that there are gates that connect the worlds, Paradiso, Inferno, Chaos, and Purgatorio. He can only be referring to Muspelheim, since the only other “gates” that connect the three realms are the individual ones. Which we only know there are two of, and not spread all over the world like Luka suggests.

“I can't reveal who my source is, but according to them, there is a gateway that leads to a primordial world cut off from the flow of time--a place called Muspelheim. The place is full of demons, angels, witches, and sages, who spend their days pursuing nothing other than battle. This limitless world disregards the wounds and deaths of yesterday, always breathing life into its warriors so that they may live to fight another day.”

Luka here says that Muspelheim includes every category of enemy we’ve come across, which are all restricted to one of the three realms. Muspelheim is a primordial world sure, but it is one that’s connected to all of the trinity’s, and there exists in all of them.

This is not far fetched, when you travel to Muspelheim there are yellow clouds indicating you’re in Paradiso

Red clouds for when you’re inside inferno, and the two others for Chaos and I’m guessing Muspelheim itself. It’s connected to every world, and as we know from Balder, the yellow clouds are when Paradiso overlays itself with any other reality. Meaning that Muspelheim is a part of it.

Regardless, if infinite is flat out not suggested, I still think the “Possibly infinite” suggested before would do well, or just a higher calc for Irenic than the one we already have.

As for it breaking the plot, I’ve already explained that Bayonetta could not just “Infinite speed” run to Jeanne, because she’s sent back through time on multiple occasions, and did not know how to get to Jeanne in the first place.
 
All of these suggested upgrades seem to have been almost uniformly rejected...
 
How could you say Irenic never entered, when it is a world that is full of Angels, Demon, witch, etc? You can fight Aesir inside it, you really think Irenic never entered?

The realm is not disclosed, it’s much like how Alfheim are “Pockets” inside of Paradiso, and have gates leading to them as well. There is no difference between the two aside from Muspelheim being its own world, and including all the other realities with it.
 
How could you say Irenic never entered, when it is a world that is full of Angels, Demon, witch, etc? You can fight Aesir inside it, you really think Irenic never entered?
Click to expand...
Aesir is not irenic. Irenic has no evidence of ever being in there, not to mention aesir has dimensional shifting abilities.

The realm is lierallty stated to be disclosed from time and to be another dimension by luka
 
Muspelheim has not been accepted as an infinite-sized dimension, just entertained as possibly being infinite based on the "limitless world" part of its description which can be debated to mean something else.
 
Comicgyal said:
The realm is not disclosed, it’s much like how Alfheim are “Pockets” inside of Paradiso, and have gates leading to them as well. There is no difference between the two aside from Muspelheim being its own world, and including all the other realities with it.
Click to expand...
Muspelheim being its own world is the point. It's not a part of Paradiso.
 
i dont think "limitless" is referring to its size at all

unknown.png


The realm is "limitless" in context to death. Warriors fight there eternally because you dont die there. It has nothing to do with the size
 
Cyberblader90 said:
Aesir is not irenic. Irenic has no evidence of ever being in there, not to mention aesir has dimensional shifting abilities.

The realm is lierallty stated to be disclosed from time and to be another dimension by luka
Click to expand...
So? There are fodder angels inside of Muspelheim too, ones that are realistically weaker than Irenic. Irenic wasn’t included because it’s not in Bayonetta 2, but to say it has no possibility of entering just seems false.
Dienomite22 said:
Muspelheim has not been accepted as an infinite-sized dimension, just entertained as possibly being infinite based on the "limitless world" part of its description which can be debated to mean something else.
Click to expand...
Cyberblader90 said:
i dont think "limitless" is referring to its size at all

unknown.png


The realm is "limitless" in context to death. Warriors fight there eternally because you dont die there. It has nothing to do with the size
Click to expand...
To me those are two separate ideas, it describes the world as limitless, and explains how people can’t die there either. Though it would be silly to sit and debate sentence structure.

Most people have denied infinite already, so we can stick to MFTL+ with the absolute high end due to how many realms are actually inside of Paradiso itself.
 
unknown.png


Because they ended up in via gates. Again there is no proof irenic ended up there, it is headcanon.

Limitless is used in the same sentence for the death thing. In context its obviously referring to the realm's unique properties over death
 
Most people have denied infinite already, so we can stick to MFTL+ with the absolute high end due to how many realms are actually inside of Paradiso itself.
Click to expand...

Why? This is assuming that the realms are separate from irenic's thousands of time's statement add extra size... which makes no sense, givens thats the number we are given for it crossing its entirety in 24 hours.

The statement would already include them by default
 
Cyberblader90 said:
Why? This is assuming that the realms are separate from irenic's thousands of time's statement add extra size... which makes no sense, givens thats the number we are given for it crossing its entirety in 24 hours.

The statement would already include them by default
Click to expand...
I doubt the statement does includes it, but what I’m saying is that the atleast 300x larger than the human world should be the norm, just because of how large Paradiso is. Since “thousands of times larger” is already a blanket statement, it’s not like one of them is more reliable than the other. However I’m more inclined to go with the high end.
 
last post on the realm size:

"this limitless world disregards the wounds and deaths of yesterday.."

the line doesn't differentiate them. No comma or cutoff. Its the same contextual piece of info. The limitless world is in context referring to the realm's functions.
 
Comicgyal said:
I doubt the statement does includes it, but what I’m saying is that the atleast 300x larger than the human world should be the norm, just because of how large Paradiso is. Since “thousands of times larger” is already a blanket statement, it’s not like one of them is more reliable than the other. However I’m more inclined to go with the high end.
Click to expand...
Its a blanket statement for its entire size, since irenic crossed that given distance in 24 hours
 
Again I doubt that, since Paradiso has tons of other realms that aren’t mentioned. But what are you saying exactly? Are you saying that it shouldn’t be the high end?
 
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