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Can we update the votes on the opening post?
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Battle of the DBS' Buff Bois - Broly vs Toppo
- Thread starter The_2nd_Existential_Seed
- Start date
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Because if your nonsense was true, Jiren would have litteraly shat his pant and went mind broke from seeing something superior to his strenght being accessible to Toppo, just like he was when he got his shit kicked in by MUI Goku.
Also you're applying jackshit, you didn't even read the goddamn page for hax, that clearly state you need feat for the hax to effect someone with highter statistic.
Also you're applying jackshit, you didn't even read the goddamn page for hax, that clearly state you need feat for the hax to effect someone with highter statistic.
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To be honest I would've been fine if Toppo manages to beat Broly despite the AP difference if he had some really good Regenerationn coupled with some kind of reactive power level that's even better than Broly and Black's or a hax that actually negates durability against characters stronger than him. But Toppo beating somebody who canonically lol stomped a character who is capable of lol stomping him because of Hakai which has been shown to not work against characters stronger than him is a no.
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I'm not giving people resistances they haven't shown in the series. How is that exaggerating abilities?Ryukama said:
Make a CRT if you think every angel deserves resistances to transmutation and absolutely zero simply on the basis that they are physically stronger.
And Jiren has resistance to Time Stop and was stated to "transcend time", that's why he was able to power through Hit's attacks. If you can just power through an attack, then you don't have a resistance, the attack has a weakness.
Since Energy of Hakai is just that, and energy blast - it can be manipulated through Ki manipulation. But to survive touching something with EE properties, then yes, you need to resist EE.
What is so strange about this?
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Frieza was visibly tired after overpowering the attack. And again negating the strength of a hax through your power is a feat of resisting hax with your power.
I implore you to find any shred of evidence of this completely unmentioned magical innate resistance that only Base Goku, SSBE Vegeta and Golden Frieza have for no reason is actually a thing in canon.
It's far fetched because again you're putting these fodder characters on a much more ridiculous level than they're canonically or narratively ever suggested to be simply because of a foreign fan wiki's borderline NLF opinion on hax. I think the ball is more on Hyssop's court to prove that his ice attacks are actually capable of defeating Grand Priest, rather than for Grand Priest to prove whether or not his ki is powerful enough to resist something that SSJ1 Vegeta's ki was powerful enough to resist.
I implore you to find any shred of evidence of this completely unmentioned magical innate resistance that only Base Goku, SSBE Vegeta and Golden Frieza have for no reason is actually a thing in canon.
It's far fetched because again you're putting these fodder characters on a much more ridiculous level than they're canonically or narratively ever suggested to be simply because of a foreign fan wiki's borderline NLF opinion on hax. I think the ball is more on Hyssop's court to prove that his ice attacks are actually capable of defeating Grand Priest, rather than for Grand Priest to prove whether or not his ki is powerful enough to resist something that SSJ1 Vegeta's ki was powerful enough to resist.
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Goku also powered through hit's timeskip by powering upWarren Valion said:
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Don't try to tell people to make CRT when you're the one going against the site's rules and consensus, even the page you linked tell clearly that you're wrong.
It's funny how you're avoiding on purpose that it was Jiren's POWER who was stated to transcend time, let me wonder from where his power come from ? could it be from Ki ? just like they do everything in that goddamn show with ki ?
Once again the 'attack has a weakness' isn't how it work here, go make a CRT if you ain't happy.
And there you go again with your headcanon that destruction energy is ki despite it being explicitly contradicted by Sidra.
and how do they resist EE and with what, genius ? could it be ki ? the source of their power ?
What is strange is how you can actualy believe the nonsense you're spewing.
It's funny how you're avoiding on purpose that it was Jiren's POWER who was stated to transcend time, let me wonder from where his power come from ? could it be from Ki ? just like they do everything in that goddamn show with ki ?
Once again the 'attack has a weakness' isn't how it work here, go make a CRT if you ain't happy.
And there you go again with your headcanon that destruction energy is ki despite it being explicitly contradicted by Sidra.
and how do they resist EE and with what, genius ? could it be ki ? the source of their power ?
What is strange is how you can actualy believe the nonsense you're spewing.
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Seriously, why does this happen everytime with DB and hax? Can we make a CRT to settle it, put the ruling on the verse's page and call it done?
Cuz, I'll be frank, I'm absolutly sick of seeing it pop in threads. I really kills my desire to come and talk in them and I love talking about DB.
Cuz, I'll be frank, I'm absolutly sick of seeing it pop in threads. I really kills my desire to come and talk in them and I love talking about DB.
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It was Jiren's strength itself to have transcended time. That was literally the explicit explanation given by multiple characters. Also SSBKKx10 Goku also resisted Hit's abilities through his strength, though of course Hit wasn't as powerful back then. But either way in that case, strength overpowered the hax. Just with Hakai.
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There were multiple CRT about it and let me tell you, none of them side with the other guys, it just wasn't put on the verse's page, cause no one though about it or there was no real reason.
It won't stop people from making nonsensical argument though.
I remember Matthew and some other staff jokingly bring up the silly ideas of Hyssop and Monster Carrot beating Grand Priest and Zeno as an example, only for that to now unironically being argued for.
It won't stop people from making nonsensical argument though.
I remember Matthew and some other staff jokingly bring up the silly ideas of Hyssop and Monster Carrot beating Grand Priest and Zeno as an example, only for that to now unironically being argued for.
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@Dragomer
If I was the one that was wrong, then why is that how the pages are?
Goku doesn't have AZ resistance from scaling to Vegeta.
The Angels have no resistance at all from physically scaling above characters.
If what you say is the consensus of the wiki, then why don't the profiles reflect your words.
I swear this is the same exact debate that I had about the size of the Dragon Ball Multiverse. People said I was wrong, I made a Q&A thread about it, and I was proven right.
Do I really have to make another Q&A thread on how we do things on this wiki?
If I was the one that was wrong, then why is that how the pages are?
Goku doesn't have AZ resistance from scaling to Vegeta.
The Angels have no resistance at all from physically scaling above characters.
If what you say is the consensus of the wiki, then why don't the profiles reflect your words.
I swear this is the same exact debate that I had about the size of the Dragon Ball Multiverse. People said I was wrong, I made a Q&A thread about it, and I was proven right.
Do I really have to make another Q&A thread on how we do things on this wiki?
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Because it would clutter the page for no reason, just like Jiren's page doesn't have paralysis resistance and telekinesis resistance, yet you wouldn't argue that Chaozu and Roshi's stuff would work on him, because that's common sense.
Just look at the hax page and read how the HAX need to feat to affect people with highter statistic before trying to hide your nonsense behind 'the site say so !'
Just look at the hax page and read how the HAX need to feat to affect people with highter statistic before trying to hide your nonsense behind 'the site say so !'
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That is not an excuse. You can't just leave out resistances because it "would clutter the page".Dragomer said:
Have you seen some of the powerhouses on the wiki? Their Powers and Abilities section are enormous.
Some examples:
Reinhard Heydrich
Q
Kirby
There are numerous more.
If they have the resistances then they need to be added.
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That's not an excuse, that's a reason, it's still a wiki, the goal of the page is to be easily readable, which is why we also have Goku being seperated into different page for his canon 'version' alone.
That's because those characters have no one to scale from so you HAVE to show it on their pages, it's not the best but you don't have a choice in their case, while you can just put it on like Goku's page and people can easily see ' U6 Saga Goku resisted that through raw power so Jiren would have no issue'.
Also another reason is that we would have to update a shit lot of page each time we see someone in DB resist an hax through raw power if we bothered with that rather than count on people's common sense, imagine if tommorow, Piccolo resist some random hax through raw power and now we have to update everyone stronger than him ? that's a lot of work for no reason.
That's called practicality, that's the same reason we don't put the calculation directly on the character's page itself.
I'm just telling you why, if you ain't happy about it, i can't do much.
That's because those characters have no one to scale from so you HAVE to show it on their pages, it's not the best but you don't have a choice in their case, while you can just put it on like Goku's page and people can easily see ' U6 Saga Goku resisted that through raw power so Jiren would have no issue'.
Also another reason is that we would have to update a shit lot of page each time we see someone in DB resist an hax through raw power if we bothered with that rather than count on people's common sense, imagine if tommorow, Piccolo resist some random hax through raw power and now we have to update everyone stronger than him ? that's a lot of work for no reason.
That's called practicality, that's the same reason we don't put the calculation directly on the character's page itself.
I'm just telling you why, if you ain't happy about it, i can't do much.
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This is true. We are an indexing site, first and foremost, whose profiles inform our VS debating community. If a character does have a resistance, a power, whatever, it should be on the page to inform. Not just regulars of the site but those who come just to look up a particular character.Warren Valion said:
Some characters just have walls of text for the powers and abilities because they have that many. It happens.
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Where are you getting all of this bullshit?
The purpose of the wiki is to index fictional characters and debate which fictional characters are stronger than the other in a fight.
Goku's pages were separated because of all the tabs he would have, not because of all the power and abilities he had if you mixed every canon into one page.
And what? Having a resistance to an ability means that you scaled from no-selling someone else's ability. As an example, Reinhard Heydrich has resistance to EE because Machina's EE attack is considered "useless trash" before him. That's a statement that directly scales from one character to another.
And you are absolutely wrong.
Every character that scales above Super Buu has "Possible Portal Creation (Via scaling above Buu) on their page.
The same isn't said for other hax. Why? Because we don't scale hax via AP, but through feats and statements unless stated otherwise - like with Buu's portal feat.
The purpose of the wiki is to index fictional characters and debate which fictional characters are stronger than the other in a fight.
Goku's pages were separated because of all the tabs he would have, not because of all the power and abilities he had if you mixed every canon into one page.
And what? Having a resistance to an ability means that you scaled from no-selling someone else's ability. As an example, Reinhard Heydrich has resistance to EE because Machina's EE attack is considered "useless trash" before him. That's a statement that directly scales from one character to another.
And you are absolutely wrong.
Every character that scales above Super Buu has "Possible Portal Creation (Via scaling above Buu) on their page.
The same isn't said for other hax. Why? Because we don't scale hax via AP, but through feats and statements unless stated otherwise - like with Buu's portal feat.
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Anyway, I got to go to sleep.
@Everyone
Goodnight.
@Everyone
Goodnight.
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From obvious stuff and common sense, something you clearly lack.
Yeah and ? it doesn't mean just throw everything there and assume no one has a brain, you need to organise your pages practicaly.
No, it's a resistance that come from ignoring an ability, he doesn't scale of someone else's resistance.
Good argument, 'you are absolutly wrong', flawless, mean a lot, it's not just a meaningless response.
Except there is no statement nor feat about anyone other than Gotenks and Super Buu, we scale it because they used raw power so anyone with more raw power would have the same ability, which is the same reason Broly would no sell Hakai, cause he has more than characters who used raw power to no sell Hakai.
Also Raw power in dragon ball is not just AP, read what i said about RPG and magic resistance.
Yeah and ? it doesn't mean just throw everything there and assume no one has a brain, you need to organise your pages practicaly.
No, it's a resistance that come from ignoring an ability, he doesn't scale of someone else's resistance.
Good argument, 'you are absolutly wrong', flawless, mean a lot, it's not just a meaningless response.
Except there is no statement nor feat about anyone other than Gotenks and Super Buu, we scale it because they used raw power so anyone with more raw power would have the same ability, which is the same reason Broly would no sell Hakai, cause he has more than characters who used raw power to no sell Hakai.
Also Raw power in dragon ball is not just AP, read what i said about RPG and magic resistance.
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I don't care who agreed to that. That's like saying Spirit Bomb and Destructo Disk are same because both of them are Energy ManipulationDragomer said:
Hakai sphere is ki based and can be overpowered with strength alone. It's further proved when Frieza was able to contain it within his hand and Vegeta cancelled it out with his ki infused punch.
Hakai wave is something else entirely. It also destroy souls. Beerus even threatened to erase a Pre-TOP Goku without breaking a sweat. The reason why Toppo didn't used it in the TOP was either the rules or he didn't knew the technique of a True GOD
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Explain why Toppo was screaming 'hakai' while using destruction energy then. also it's more comparable to saying that Galick Gun and Kamehameha are the same since they both do the exact same thing, are treated the same way and only have a slight appareace difference.JackJoyce said:
It's not ki based, Destruction energy is entirely independent from ki.
Their body is always infused with Ki, all that attacks are ki infused.
Destruction energy was directly stated by Sidra to erase the souls, they are basicaly the same thing.
Eminiteable
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Broly gets erased.
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Are we seriously heading into this headcanon of DBZ hax being overpowered by raw power again?
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> And you clearly didn't understand what i meant or you didn't read what i said about Guldo, different hax need different level of power to resist to, Dabura's spit certainly wouldn't work on Buu, let alone on Beerus, Guldo's time ability would be resisted like Hit's; If Blue and Roshi's hypnosis and paralysis worked no matter the strenght, Roshi would have used it against Freezer in ROF to insta win, we saw how usefull the candy beam is when it did jackshit to Vegeto, same for absorption, Mafuba litteraly ended with Frost grabbing it and Babidi's spell can be litteraly countered by a strong mind, which basicaly come with a strong ki.
Dabura's spit not working on Buu is complete and utter headcanon. Boo could survive it due to his Regenerationn meaning he can simply cut off a piece of himself and regenerate from that after being petrified, but as far as resisting it, literally nothing shows as much.
Guldo's Time-Stop being resisted is headcanon.
General Blue's paralysis not working on Mercenary Tao is pure anime filler.
Vegito only kept his strength because it's a special property of the Potara earrings' magic, absolutely nothing to do with his raw strength. The Daizenshuu states as much.
Mafuba can't be resisted with raw strength, this is extremely obvious and it's the entire point. Roshi missed the pot when he tried to seal KP, Frost slapped the container away. Nothing to do with strength.
This has been debunked countless times by now.
Dabura's spit not working on Buu is complete and utter headcanon. Boo could survive it due to his Regenerationn meaning he can simply cut off a piece of himself and regenerate from that after being petrified, but as far as resisting it, literally nothing shows as much.
Guldo's Time-Stop being resisted is headcanon.
General Blue's paralysis not working on Mercenary Tao is pure anime filler.
Vegito only kept his strength because it's a special property of the Potara earrings' magic, absolutely nothing to do with his raw strength. The Daizenshuu states as much.
Mafuba can't be resisted with raw strength, this is extremely obvious and it's the entire point. Roshi missed the pot when he tried to seal KP, Frost slapped the container away. Nothing to do with strength.
This has been debunked countless times by now.
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And mental strength has nothing to do with ki. That's yet another invention. Babidi's Spell actually increases the ki of the person entrapped by it.
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So Babidi had a servant who could one shot Buu, his ultimate creation on just a lucky shot and he didn't care a single bit for a such a powerfull ace in the hole to just be killed or for the risk of Buu attacking Dabura and getting killed on a lucky spit ? does basic logic suddenly doesn't work anymore ?Kepekley23 said:
It's not, We saw Hit's time hax get resisted, there is no reason Guldo's time hax wouldn't be resisted as well and you're seriously trying to say that Freezer had a minion who could paralyse Beerus, Whis and Zeno at the same time but didn't care ? and it's me who has the head canon ?
It's absolutly said nowhere, you're the one going with a headcanon right now, the Daizenshuu only say that Vegeto resisted it and list it under 'special' or something because back then, only Vegeto was at the level needed to do such a feat.
No, Frost grabbed the litteral Mafuba and threw it, he didn't touch the container that time.
More debunked than Freezer, Goku and Vegeta having magique, unexplained and unmentioned inherent resistance to EE, Absolute 0 temperature and stuff like that ? Baby Vegeta no selling Hyssop's absolute 0 is so canon.
Yeah, cause Toriyama litteraly stating that one of Ki's very component is 'mind' / 'strengh of mind' is headcanon right now, while unmentionned and unexplained inherent property are canon, that make lots of sense.
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Maybe we could do one of those discussion notes on the verse page, like how there's one to stop people from upgrading Kaguya to star level and Saitama to star level.
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> So Babidi had a servant who could one shot Buu, his ultimate creation on just a lucky shot and he didn't care a single bit for a such a powerfull ace in the hole to just be killed or for the risk of Buu attacking Dabura ? does basic logic suddenly doesn't work anymore ?
The fact that Dabura never got to use his spit on Boo means that, yes, Boo would have been affected had it landed. Nothing to suggest otherwise. Please stop with this headcanon. Future Dabura's spit could work on SSJ2 Trunks who bodied him in a straight fight, and would have explicitly worked on Vegeta, Gohan and Goku even if they used SSJ2. Vegeta said as much.
> It's not, We saw Hit's time hax get resisted, there is no reason Guldo's time hax wouldn't be resisted as well and you're seriously trying to say that Freezer had a minion who could paralyse Beerus, Whis and Zeno at the same time but didn't care ? and it's me who has the head canon ?
Not necessarily Whis due to his abilities, but yep, since they never showed resistance nothing suggests they would resist Guldo's abilities, which could explicitly work on stronger opponents given that he steamrolled Gohan and Krillin with it. Guldo didn't show the same weakness as Manga Hit.
> It's absolutly said nowhere, you're the one going with a headcanon right now, the Daizenshuu only say that Vegeto resisted it and list it under 'special' or something because back then, only Vegeto was at the level needed to do such a feat.
False.
No, he didn't. He used his Telekinetic powers in order to reflect the seal wave. It actually worked on Vegeta in the exact same scene when it landed on him, so using this scene is literally debunking yourself.
The fact that Dabura never got to use his spit on Boo means that, yes, Boo would have been affected had it landed. Nothing to suggest otherwise. Please stop with this headcanon. Future Dabura's spit could work on SSJ2 Trunks who bodied him in a straight fight, and would have explicitly worked on Vegeta, Gohan and Goku even if they used SSJ2. Vegeta said as much.
> It's not, We saw Hit's time hax get resisted, there is no reason Guldo's time hax wouldn't be resisted as well and you're seriously trying to say that Freezer had a minion who could paralyse Beerus, Whis and Zeno at the same time but didn't care ? and it's me who has the head canon ?
Not necessarily Whis due to his abilities, but yep, since they never showed resistance nothing suggests they would resist Guldo's abilities, which could explicitly work on stronger opponents given that he steamrolled Gohan and Krillin with it. Guldo didn't show the same weakness as Manga Hit.
> It's absolutly said nowhere, you're the one going with a headcanon right now, the Daizenshuu only say that Vegeto resisted it and list it under 'special' or something because back then, only Vegeto was at the level needed to do such a feat.
False.
- "He has certain special characteristics, including that his strength doesn't change even if his shape does." (Daizenshuu 2)
No, he didn't. He used his Telekinetic powers in order to reflect the seal wave. It actually worked on Vegeta in the exact same scene when it landed on him, so using this scene is literally debunking yourself.
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3-A Master Roshi, his Mafuba sealed Vegeta
10/10
10/10
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So yeah, Babidi could have beaten Zeno by using Dabura but he didn't and considered Dabura worthless, just because Dabura didn't get to use his spit against Buu....and i'm the one with the headcanon ?
Yeah, cause SSJ2 has so much on Buu.....except they are way weaker, to a stupid degree.
'manga Hit', same happened in the anime and it's not a weakness of the hax, it's a capacity of the characters, there is no reason to treat it any other way.
So Guldo's ability would **** the whole dragon ball pantheon and that's a reasonable argument now ?
Thanks for linking something that say the exact same thing as me, so where did it talk about potara ? nowhere ? so who has the headcanon ? you. it's under special characteristic because only Vegeto was at that level back then.
But oh, i forgot, Buu could have one shotted everyone at the TOP, Zeno, GoD, Angels and Jiren included with his candy beam, cause that make lots of sense.
You mean the telekinetic he never demonstrated before ? telekinetic power that work through Frost physicaly grabbing the Mafuba ? with his hand ?
3-A Master Roshi, his mafuba can seal the entirety of dragon ball, Zeno included 10/10, cause that's a perfectly reasonable argument, too bad Monster Carrot, the other god tier of dragon ball wouldn't be able to reach him before he use the technique.
Yeah, cause SSJ2 has so much on Buu.....except they are way weaker, to a stupid degree.
'manga Hit', same happened in the anime and it's not a weakness of the hax, it's a capacity of the characters, there is no reason to treat it any other way.
So Guldo's ability would **** the whole dragon ball pantheon and that's a reasonable argument now ?
Thanks for linking something that say the exact same thing as me, so where did it talk about potara ? nowhere ? so who has the headcanon ? you. it's under special characteristic because only Vegeto was at that level back then.
But oh, i forgot, Buu could have one shotted everyone at the TOP, Zeno, GoD, Angels and Jiren included with his candy beam, cause that make lots of sense.
You mean the telekinetic he never demonstrated before ? telekinetic power that work through Frost physicaly grabbing the Mafuba ? with his hand ?
3-A Master Roshi, his mafuba can seal the entirety of dragon ball, Zeno included 10/10, cause that's a perfectly reasonable argument, too bad Monster Carrot, the other god tier of dragon ball wouldn't be able to reach him before he use the technique.
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@DragonEmperor
Agreed. This is getting way out of hand.
Agreed. This is getting way out of hand.
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@Dragomer
Seriously, this argument of Hax being able to work on god tiers is ridiculous.
Mard Greer could EE Acnologia if Acnologia stood still and let him. Doesn't stop Mard from getting stomped in a fight.
Kakashi could Kamui Naruto's head off if he stood still and let him. Doesn't stop Kakashi from getting stomped in a fight.
Saying that because someone can negate durability or that their hax works on people that don't resist it does not mean that they are stronger than the god tiers. Seriously, Whis could kill Dabura by spitting in his direction and do it before Dabura could even think. Hax ignores durability, not the fact that your opponent is infinitely stronger than you and millions of times faster.
Seriously, this argument of Hax being able to work on god tiers is ridiculous.
Mard Greer could EE Acnologia if Acnologia stood still and let him. Doesn't stop Mard from getting stomped in a fight.
Kakashi could Kamui Naruto's head off if he stood still and let him. Doesn't stop Kakashi from getting stomped in a fight.
Saying that because someone can negate durability or that their hax works on people that don't resist it does not mean that they are stronger than the god tiers. Seriously, Whis could kill Dabura by spitting in his direction and do it before Dabura could even think. Hax ignores durability, not the fact that your opponent is infinitely stronger than you and millions of times faster.
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I agree, your side of the argument is absolutly ridiculous.DragonEmperor23 said:
And Dabura being able to do the same to Whis (killing him by spitting in his direction) isn't ridiculous and clearly against what the show is saying and showing ?
and Speed doesn't mean a lot once you're frozen in time.
So yeah, Freezer and Babidi had the most powerfull ability that every existed under their controls through their minions, ability that can even topple Zeno but everyone consider them worthless while Goku put another guy who could topple Zeno and the gods of destruction on the moon while he was kid and let's not forget how Battle of Gods would have quickly ended if Roshi decided to use the Mafuba, that can seal everyone and anyone, same for Fukatsu no F, Roshi could have solved everything in Dragon Ball.
Except that except Whis, it's out of characters for any of the god tier to actualy blitz them or actualy care about their ability.
Dust_Collector
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@Dragomer
Everything you've said can be summed up as arguments from incredulity. I haven't seen a argument from you that justifies AP>>Hax in Dragon Ball that isn't "I don't see how Zeno would be affected by Time Stop or Petrification so that means he can't be affected by those".
Everything you've said can be summed up as arguments from incredulity. I haven't seen a argument from you that justifies AP>>Hax in Dragon Ball that isn't "I don't see how Zeno would be affected by Time Stop or Petrification so that means he can't be affected by those".
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"So yeah, Freezer and Babidi had the most powerfull ability that every existed under their controls through their minions, ability that can even topple Zeno but everyone consider them worthless while Goku put another guy who could topple Zeno and the gods of destruction on the moon while he was kid and let's not forget how Battle of Gods would have quickly ended if Roshi decided to use the Mafuba, that can seal everyone and anyone, same for Fukatsu no F, Roshi could have solved everything in Dragon Ball."
You do realize that both of those characters were killed easily in canon right?
" Speed doesn't mean a lot once you're frozen in time."
And? Guldo is 5-B, he's not going to be hurting any god tiers with his trees any time soon.
You do realize that both of those characters were killed easily in canon right?
" Speed doesn't mean a lot once you're frozen in time."
And? Guldo is 5-B, he's not going to be hurting any god tiers with his trees any time soon.
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No, it's a common sense argument, do you really think that the creators of the show and the characters would want some random dumb ability to kill the god tiers they took 100+ episode portraying as invincible and impressive ? all the while giving unexplained, unmentionned and inherent resistance to other ability from much more impressive characters ?Dust Collector said:
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Yes and you do realise that at no point was Babidi worried that Dabura's spit could hurt Buu in canon, right ?DragonEmperor23 said:
You mean just like he was going to hurt Moon busters + characters with the same trees, if his ability make you unable to defend yourself, it make you unable to defend yourself, you can't say one part works and not the other.
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"some random dumb ability"
It's transmutation, what's dumb about it?
"You mean just like he was going to hurt Moon busters + characters with the same trees, if his ability make you unable to defend yourself, it make you unable to defend yourself, you can't say one part works and not the other."
Yes, he could have killed Krillin and Gohan with them. Krillin and Gohan who are also in the same tier as Guldo. It's time stop not statistics reduction, time being stopped doesn't change the fact that they're universal and he's planetary. None of his attacks are going to do anything to them.
It's transmutation, what's dumb about it?
"You mean just like he was going to hurt Moon busters + characters with the same trees, if his ability make you unable to defend yourself, it make you unable to defend yourself, you can't say one part works and not the other."
Yes, he could have killed Krillin and Gohan with them. Krillin and Gohan who are also in the same tier as Guldo. It's time stop not statistics reduction, time being stopped doesn't change the fact that they're universal and he's planetary. None of his attacks are going to do anything to them.
