The Battle of the Prodigies: Broly vs Gohan

[animus10001]

What's the point in making matches of characters from the same scaling chain because at the end of the day DB is all about higher AP=win

While that's usually the case (especially since DB's showcase of slightly superior AP tend to be a literal a** whooping), there are instances of characters winning despite having lower AP, if I recall correctly, Piccolo beat Caulifla despite her having the AP advantage due to his skill.

 

[Aachintya31]

Piccolo beat Caulifla despite her having the AP advantage due to his skill.

Really? both are 3A I guess piccolo is stronger than a regular SSJ

 

[Aachintya31]

Gohan skillstomp gg

Master martial artist Goku got hulked by broly. skill doesn't matter in a DB vs DB.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Actually never mind i forgot that nobody can beat lord chadhan :

So voting gohan

 

[Aachintya31]

Actually never mind i forgot that nobody can beat lord chadhan :

So voting gohan

Why did you hide your profile?
Are you are that guy who tried upgrading Alien X to 2B but that in ended 3A downgrade

 

[animus10001]

Really? both are 3A I guess piccolo is stronger than a regular SSJ

At the time Piccolo's key was the one from the Universe 6 tournament, so Caulifla had the AP advantage. The reasons pointed out for Piccolo's victory was his far superior skill and experience, as well as his Makankōsappō.

 

[animus10001]

Master martial artist Goku got hulked by broly. skill doesn't matter in a DB vs DB.

He was only hulked because Broly's power was overwhelmingly superior to his and he went even more berserker, at the beginning of their battle he was fighting somewhat competently in Base, Super Saiyan, and Super Saiyan God strictly through skill and techniques.

 

[RedReaper616]

I only threw a "tantrum" because I need to constantly repeat information.

You bring up a good point about fusion, but Piccolo can't feel god ki, so he doesn't know how strong God Gogeta is.

The issue with that is Broly's reactive power level allows him to get exponentially stronger in the span of a couple of seconds, as shown in his fight against Vegeta, who he forced into Super Saiyan God, then matching and vastly surpassing his Super Saiyan God form with Ikari, which is equivalent to Great Ape, which is merely a 10 times difference. He pretty much covered the difference between base and God in like 2 minutes. Considering how Gohan doesn't have a super vast advantage against Broly, I see no reason why Broly wouldn't just adapt and surpass Gohan when the fight begins.

The inability to sense God Ki in DBS is heavily inconsistent, though, as seen in DBS: Broly where he notes to Gogeta in the novel “Your Inner Power is stronger than Broly,” as well as senses that God Goku is struggling. It should also be noted that in the Manga, he is the one to explain the mechanics of God Ki as well, not Beerus or Whis, which Whis himself noted: “You sure know a lot.”

This is actually consistent with the idea that being God of Earth/Guardian can sense God Ki, as Dende does in Battle of Gods, annnnd the fact Piccolo sensed Shin’s PL back in Buu Saga when he really shouldn’t of been able to. (And I guess Goku before becoming able to use God Ki just used Bubble’s Ki to get to King Kai’s?)

Edit: Just checked the Buu Saga chapter, and interestingly, Shin confirms this theory.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/912239212395376640/1027996689723818105/IMG_1323.png

So yeah, Piccolo should be able to sense Gogeta the entire film.

 

[SlendVeny]

Master martial artist Goku got hulked by broly. skill doesn't matter in a DB vs DB.

Only because he was stronger.

 

[RedReaper616]

So with the Piccolo facts in mind, he should know precisely how strong SSB Gogeta is. (He outright says it himself, anyway.)

So if he thinks SSB Gogeta isn't enough for Cell Max, well then that means Gohan, bare minimum, is SSB Gogeta+ level. (This also isn't mentioning the movie takes place after both Moro and Granolah, so Piccolo should understand at LEAST the level of Power Goku used in Moro's Arc, (or MUI) and probably understands the new forms Goku and Vegeta have as well if we're realistic, especially since Ki at lower magnitudes has been sensed across realms like Otherworld and the Supreme Kai Planet from Earth, but at a lowball we'll ignore it.)

That means the gap between Gohan and Broly should be SIZABLE and VAST enough for Gohan-Who no longer has his sadism weakness, per DBS Anime, and decided to immediately kill Cell Max in 2-3 attacks in character-To be able to just one shot Broly.

Which he would do after purposely taking a punch to the aura.

 

[animus10001]

So with the Piccolo facts in mind, he should know precisely how strong SSB Gogeta is. (He outright says it himself, anyway.)

So if he thinks SSB Gogeta isn't enough for Cell Max, well then that means Gohan, bare minimum, is SSB Gogeta+ level. (This also isn't mentioning the movie takes place after both Moro and Granolah, so Piccolo should understand at LEAST the level of Power Goku used in Moro's Arc, (or MUI) and probably understands the new forms Goku and Vegeta have as well if we're realistic, especially since Ki at lower magnitudes has been sensed across realms like Otherworld and the Supreme Kai Planet from Earth, but at a lowball we'll ignore it.)

That means the gap between Gohan and Broly should be SIZABLE and VAST enough for Gohan-Who no longer has his sadism weakness, per DBS Anime, and decided to immediately kill Cell Max in 2-3 attacks in character-To be able to just one shot Broly.

Which he would do after purposely taking a punch to the aura.

Even if we assume that Piccolo wasn't aware of Gogeta Blue's power (while the Manga has statements that support Piccolo sensing God Ki, the anime doesn't) he'd still know Broly's full power and thus, would scale Cell Max to that, therefore Gohan's Power should be the superior to it.

 

[RedReaper616]

Even if we assume that Piccolo wasn't aware of Gogeta Blue's power (while the Manga has statements that support Piccolo sensing God Ki, the anime doesn't) he'd still know Broly's full power and thus, would scale Cell Max to that, therefore Gohan's Power should be the superior to it.

To be fair, the DBS Manga supports it, and the DBS Anime is a full fledged sequel to the DBZ Anime and Manga, so Piccolo should definitely know. (Alongside the Novel statements and Piccolo literally sensing SSG Goku in the middle of the animated version of the Broly movie.)

That being said, I definitely agree. Piccolo should be able to sense Broly and Moro's Ki signatures at bare minimum, and so still is a completely viable metric to use.

 

[Mickey1940]

So with the Piccolo facts in mind, he should know precisely how strong SSB Gogeta is. (He outright says it himself, anyway.)

So if he thinks SSB Gogeta isn't enough for Cell Max, well then that means Gohan, bare minimum, is SSB Gogeta+ level. (This also isn't mentioning the movie takes place after both Moro and Granolah, so Piccolo should understand at LEAST the level of Power Goku used in Moro's Arc, (or MUI) and probably understands the new forms Goku and Vegeta have as well if we're realistic, especially since Ki at lower magnitudes has been sensed across realms like Otherworld and the Supreme Kai Planet from Earth, but at a lowball we'll ignore it.)

That means the gap between Gohan and Broly should be SIZABLE and VAST enough for Gohan-Who no longer has his sadism weakness, per DBS Anime, and decided to immediately kill Cell Max in 2-3 attacks in character-To be able to just one shot Broly.

Which he would do after purposely taking a punch to the aura.

it's been a long time but I've been busy with irl stuff, plus I managed to actually watch the movie so I think I can address this now
I don't remember what I said back in October so pretend that my argument is just based off of this comment, I'm too lazy to reread the entire thread

Gohan was only able to kill Cell Max after Cell Max had already gone through several handicaps to his power
1. He started out with Broly level power once he was activated, with his only incompletions being his personality and mind
2. He took several attacks to his weak point, to the extent that Fat Gotenks could crack it (could be PiS but it at least makes it clear that his weak point is much weaker than the rest of his body. At most it's as durable as Ultimate Piccolo cuz he also cracked it)
3. He got his arm blown off by Gamma 2 plus half his body petrified
4. He got mildly pummeled by Orange Piccolo who, even thought he was weaker, could still beat up Cell Max, and was able to retrain him for pretty much a full minute until Gohan finished charging the Special Beam Cannon
(side note can I just say how stupid that scene was like wtf why did it take so long to charge the attack like bruh cmon man it took like 5675432765432 years for Gohan to launch that tiny little beam bro why bruh)

Cell Max was far weaker than his released state at this point, to the point that an exhausted Orange Piccolo could stack up against him somewhat

Orange Piccolo is stated to be on par with Goku and Vegeta individually in their SSGSS states at this point, who are unquantifiably superior to their Broly Movie states

Ikari Broly alone was already capable of handling SSGSS Goku, meaning when he stacks Super Saiyan, he should be at bare minimum far superior to twice as strong as Goku or Vegeta. I'm only saying this because ik a lot of people don't agree with the whole "SSJ is x50 stronger than Base" argument, so I'm generously lowballing it to x2 since Broly no sold Goku's and Vegeta's Galick Kamehameha simultaneously. anyways moving on

After Goku and Vegeta lose horribly, they escape and fuse after an hour, meaning Ikari SSJ Broly has an hour's worth of time to RE and get stronger against Frieza, which is shown pretty clearly. When Frieza turns Golden at first, Ikari SSJ Broly is visibly pushed back and surprised by Frieza's power boost, but then after half an hour he's seen pummeling Golden Frieza with the same ease as he did Base Frieza from before. Plus, it's his entire gimmick to keep getting stronger as the fight goes on. So Ikari SSJ Broly becomes unquantifiably stronger

After Goku and Vegeta successfully fuse against Gogeta, who is far superior to SSGSS Goku and Vegeta individually, Ikari SSJ Broly could keep up with SSJ Gogeta, who scales slightly above GGA Broly at this point

Ikari SSJ Broly unlocks LSSJ and bodies SSJ Gogeta, who responds in kind with SSGSS, with Gogeta then dominating Ikari LSSJ Broly

so let's put it like this

SSGSS Gogeta > Ikari LSSJ Broly >>> SSJ Gogeta > Post Frieza SSJ Broly > Pre-Frieza Ikari SSJ Broly >> Base Gogeta > SSGSS Goku or Vegeta

= stronger than
> = SSJ level difference
>> = SSGSS level difference

So basically TLDR Broly at his best is way more than just a Super Saiyan Blue level difference compared to Super Saiyan Blue Goku in the Broly Movie
which is ******* ridiculous
But also TLDR, Orange Piccolo is only a little stronger than Broly Movie Goku and Vegeta
and weakened Cell Max is only a little stronger than Orange Piccolo

Gohan's best feat is killing Cell Max, who not only had 4 handicaps at this point as I listed above, but it was also a direct hit to his weak point which is weak enough that fodder characters can harm it and Ultimate Piccolo can crack it, ALSO Gohan uses the Special Beam Cannon which drastically increases his normal AP

TLDR meaning that Gohan needed Cell Max to be weakened in 4 separate ways, target a weak spot, AND damage boost himself to immense levels to kill someone who's not much stronger than Broly Movie Goku and Vegeta

That's not looking good for Gohan at all.

Also, as for the "sadism weakness" that Gohan doesn't have anymore, no, he still has it. He stood there and took an attack, kicked Cell Max across the field, and gave a pretty obvious evil smirk. He only initiated the Special Beam Cannon after Piccolo yelled at Gohan to get his ass moving. So Gohan should have all of the mental weaknesses as his Cell Saga state, if not slightly mitigated

 

[RedReaper616]

it's been a long time but I've been busy with irl stuff, plus I managed to actually watch the movie so I think I can address this now
I don't remember what I said back in October so pretend that my argument is just based off of this comment, I'm too lazy to reread the entire thread

Gohan was only able to kill Cell Max after Cell Max had already gone through several handicaps to his power
1. He started out with Broly level power once he was activated, with his only incompletions being his personality and mind
2. He took several attacks to his weak point, to the extent that Fat Gotenks could crack it (could be PiS but it at least makes it clear that his weak point is much weaker than the rest of his body. At most it's as durable as Ultimate Piccolo cuz he also cracked it)
3. He got his arm blown off by Gamma 2 plus half his body petrified
4. He got mildly pummeled by Orange Piccolo who, even thought he was weaker, could still beat up Cell Max, and was able to retrain him for pretty much a full minute until Gohan finished charging the Special Beam Cannon
(side note can I just say how stupid that scene was like wtf why did it take so long to charge the attack like bruh cmon man it took like 5675432765432 years for Gohan to launch that tiny little beam bro why bruh)

Cell Max was far weaker than his released state at this point, to the point that an exhausted Orange Piccolo could stack up against him somewhat

Orange Piccolo is stated to be on par with Goku and Vegeta individually in their SSGSS states at this point, who are unquantifiably superior to their Broly Movie states

Ikari Broly alone was already capable of handling SSGSS Goku, meaning when he stacks Super Saiyan, he should be at bare minimum far superior to twice as strong as Goku or Vegeta. I'm only saying this because ik a lot of people don't agree with the whole "SSJ is x50 stronger than Base" argument, so I'm generously lowballing it to x2 since Broly no sold Goku's and Vegeta's Galick Kamehameha simultaneously. anyways moving on

After Goku and Vegeta lose horribly, they escape and fuse after an hour, meaning Ikari SSJ Broly has an hour's worth of time to RE and get stronger against Frieza, which is shown pretty clearly. When Frieza turns Golden at first, Ikari SSJ Broly is visibly pushed back and surprised by Frieza's power boost, but then after half an hour he's seen pummeling Golden Frieza with the same ease as he did Base Frieza from before. Plus, it's his entire gimmick to keep getting stronger as the fight goes on. So Ikari SSJ Broly becomes unquantifiably stronger

After Goku and Vegeta successfully fuse against Gogeta, who is far superior to SSGSS Goku and Vegeta individually, Ikari SSJ Broly could keep up with SSJ Gogeta, who scales slightly above GGA Broly at this point

Ikari SSJ Broly unlocks LSSJ and bodies SSJ Gogeta, who responds in kind with SSGSS, with Gogeta then dominating Ikari LSSJ Broly

so let's put it like this

SSGSS Gogeta > Ikari LSSJ Broly >>> SSJ Gogeta > Post Frieza SSJ Broly > Pre-Frieza Ikari SSJ Broly >> Base Gogeta > SSGSS Goku or Vegeta


So basically TLDR Broly at his best is way more than just a Super Saiyan Blue level difference compared to Super Saiyan Blue Goku in the Broly Movie
which is ******* ridiculous
But also TLDR, Orange Piccolo is only a little stronger than Broly Movie Goku and Vegeta
and weakened Cell Max is only a little stronger than Orange Piccolo

Gohan's best feat is killing Cell Max, who not only had 4 handicaps at this point as I listed above, but it was also a direct hit to his weak point which is weak enough that fodder characters can harm it and Ultimate Piccolo can crack it, ALSO Gohan uses the Special Beam Cannon which drastically increases his normal AP

TLDR meaning that Gohan needed Cell Max to be weakened in 4 separate ways, target a weak spot, AND damage boost himself to immense levels to kill someone who's not much stronger than Broly Movie Goku and Vegeta

That's not looking good for Gohan at all.

Also, as for the "sadism weakness" that Gohan doesn't have anymore, no, he still has it. He stood there and took an attack, kicked Cell Max across the field, and gave a pretty obvious evil smirk. He only initiated the Special Beam Cannon after Piccolo yelled at Gohan to get his ass moving. So Gohan should have all of the mental weaknesses as his Cell Saga state, if not slightly mitigated

Orange Piccolo is not SSB Level. He's distinctly above it. Orange Piccolo is a form that is stated to be able to keep of with "Goku and Co's" strongest/They are on par now, at least according to Toriyama. So it would be the level above SSB in the form of UE/UI, or at LEAST SSBKK and SSBE since the film was being developed vastly before UE and PUI/TUI came out. (Though the interview happened after the actual films RELEASE, so for all intents and purposes you can easily assume he meant UE and UI, as well as SH Movie Broly, not DBS: Broly.) This in itself is supported by the fact that DBS:SH takes place after Granolah, so the "strongest battle" (according to the information given from the East), occurred after Black Frieza. It's also supported by the fact that Piccolo establishes that each Gamma is Goku and Vegeta level in the film. Again, referring to what he SHOULD know, that means they were at LEAST SSB level, and his knowledge would cover their Moro Arc selves. Ultimate/Awakened Piccolo fought pretty comparably to Gamma 2, so if anything it's Ultimate Piccolo who is SSB level, and Orange Piccolo as higher.

Even if you were to assume the worst, Orange Piccolo would be stronger than a SSB Goku and Vegeta. (And again, considering the interview occurred after the film, you could reasonably assume Toriyama's on par was about Goku and Vegeta's peak in Granolah, not Broly.)

1) Cell Max's power level is pretty wonky. He's established to be an opponent not even Broly could beat had he been completed, but he doesn't have physical incompletion, only mental, so I presume this merely means Broly is comparable, and Cell Max's feral mind limits him from using his power at a higher level, like how SSJ Berserk was weaker than the SSJ Berserk (Controlled State) for Kale, despite Kale only just gaining a handle on the power up.

2) Taking attacks to his weak point wasn't established to make him weaker? It's just the simple easy to whack boss battle weak spot. He even starts to fire more attacks and gets more frantic with his movements, so you could reasonably assume he just was hurt.

3) He did lose his arm, but as we know in Cell Saga, and in the Future Trunks timeline, whilst losing your arm can in itself weaken your PL, Teen Gohan and Future Gohan also display that with proper control and usage of your Ki you can still manifest your entire power throughout the rest of your body. (This is why Gohan can say "I lost 50% of my power..." by losing his arm and then can full on power blast SP Cell to death, which is eerily identical to how Cell Max behaves with his power sphere, losing an arm and then forcing all of his power into one hand for a final saving grace attack.) Also, Cell Max wasn't petrified. The grey is the paint having come off, as despite his classification as a "Bio-Android," and claimed by Hedo to be "Made will Cells," his body looks and acts like the Gammas, with it being wired on the inside and requiring a paint job on release, as his body is actually just grey.

4) This is true, Piccolo was able to hold out against Cell Max, but the film makes it clear the difference between them was not mild or minimal. He was getting beat around and given a dedicated scene to "die" in because he was THAT beat down. And whilst he did hold down Cell Max, this is the same series where Goku's grip on Frieza didn't get broken despite the tyrant putting more power in it to escape, or if you want to include GT, Goku was able to hold down Omega Shenron and attempt self destruct without the ability to get thrown off, (same with Super 17). This also occurs with Cell and 16, where 16 was only removed after his grip lightened up because of the surprise that his self destruct failed. So for me, Piccolo holding him down, ESPECIALLY considering he didn't actually succeed in holding him down all that well, (Cell Max could still fly, move his wings, swing Piccolo's body back and forth, etc.), doesn't actually imply he's relative. It should also be noted that Cell Max was clearly pushing it's body to the limit by creating the power sphere it DID, so regardless, Piccolo doesn't scale. At least, not well, or any significant downscaling outside of "brutally beaten down by the Android, hurt it never."

Also, none of this actually resolves the issue I brought up. Piccolo can sense God Ki. He sensed Gogeta's power. Hell, it sensed Gogeta's LATENT POWER before he even transformed. Piccolo KNOWS how strong Gogeta is. He KNOWS how strong Moro Arc Goku and Vegeta are. And yet, according to him, the Gammas are = to both Goku and Vegeta, and Goku and Vegeta might not have been able to beat Cell Max. No matter how you slice it, we're given explicit reference on where these character sit in reference to Goku and Vegeta in and out of film, and that list goes:

Gamma = Goku and Vegeta Level, likely meant SSB Moro Goku and Vegeta.
Ultimate Piccolo/Gohan ~ Gammas
Orange Piccolo >>> Gammas, can no sell dozens of strikes and lay them out in one shot
Cell Max ~ "Broly," considered stronger if completed, realistically scales above him regardless, his battle on Earth is considered "the strongest battle," this occurs after BlacK Frieza, UE, TUI, etc., told to us by Piccolo to be a threat even Goku and Vegeta would've not been enough for, despite knowing the strength of SSB Gogeta.
Gohan Beast >> Cell Max, with Cell Max potentially nerfed to a mild degree, but his battle is considered the strongest battle, and casually took blows from Cell Max as well as ended a power ball condensed with likely all of Cell Max's power into one large sphere, similar to Teen Gohan, which we know can circumvent loss in power via injury, with Cell Max clearly was pushing his body and power to the limit to attempt to kill Gohan.

Gohan's sadistic weakness is basically gone, anyway, though? There's a vast difference between tanking an attack, doing a punch, and then going for the kill to "let me slowly torture you, call you a '******,' tell everyone no when they suggest to kill the bad guy already because I've not finished having my fun, and in the end allow people I care about to ultimately die due to my arrogance." He took a punch, and gave one, and then killed. That was basically it.

 

[Mickey1940]

Orange Piccolo is not SSB Level. He's distinctly above it. Orange Piccolo is a form that is stated to be able to keep of with "Goku and Co's" strongest/They are on par now, at least according to Toriyama. So it would be the level above SSB in the form of UE/UI, or at LEAST SSBKK and SSBE since the film was being developed vastly before UE and PUI/TUI came out. (Though the interview happened after the actual films RELEASE, so for all intents and purposes you can easily assume he meant UE and UI, as well as SH Movie Broly, not DBS: Broly.) This in itself is supported by the fact that DBS:SH takes place after Granolah, so the "strongest battle" (according to the information given from the East), occurred after Black Frieza. It's also supported by the fact that Piccolo establishes that each Gamma is Goku and Vegeta level in the film. Again, referring to what he SHOULD know, that means they were at LEAST SSB level, and his knowledge would cover their Moro Arc selves. Ultimate/Awakened Piccolo fought pretty comparably to Gamma 2, so if anything it's Ultimate Piccolo who is SSB level, and Orange Piccolo as higher.

Even if you were to assume the worst, Orange Piccolo would be stronger than a SSB Goku and Vegeta. (And again, considering the interview occurred after the film, you could reasonably assume Toriyama's on par was about Goku and Vegeta's peak in Granolah, not Broly.)

1) Cell Max's power level is pretty wonky. He's established to be an opponent not even Broly could beat had he been completed, but he doesn't have physical incompletion, only mental, so I presume this merely means Broly is comparable, and Cell Max's feral mind limits him from using his power at a higher level, like how SSJ Berserk was weaker than the SSJ Berserk (Controlled State) for Kale, despite Kale only just gaining a handle on the power up.

2) Taking attacks to his weak point wasn't established to make him weaker? It's just the simple easy to whack boss battle weak spot. He even starts to fire more attacks and gets more frantic with his movements, so you could reasonably assume he just was hurt.

3) He did lose his arm, but as we know in Cell Saga, and in the Future Trunks timeline, whilst losing your arm can in itself weaken your PL, Teen Gohan and Future Gohan also display that with proper control and usage of your Ki you can still manifest your entire power throughout the rest of your body. (This is why Gohan can say "I lost 50% of my power..." by losing his arm and then can full on power blast SP Cell to death, which is eerily identical to how Cell Max behaves with his power sphere, losing an arm and then forcing all of his power into one hand for a final saving grace attack.) Also, Cell Max wasn't petrified. The grey is the paint having come off, as despite his classification as a "Bio-Android," and claimed by Hedo to be "Made will Cells," his body looks and acts like the Gammas, with it being wired on the inside and requiring a paint job on release, as his body is actually just grey.

4) This is true, Piccolo was able to hold out against Cell Max, but the film makes it clear the difference between them was not mild or minimal. He was getting beat around and given a dedicated scene to "die" in because he was THAT beat down. And whilst he did hold down Cell Max, this is the same series where Goku's grip on Frieza didn't get broken despite the tyrant putting more power in it to escape, or if you want to include GT, Goku was able to hold down Omega Shenron and attempt self destruct without the ability to get thrown off, (same with Super 17). This also occurs with Cell and 16, where 16 was only removed after his grip lightened up because of the surprise that his self destruct failed. So for me, Piccolo holding him down, ESPECIALLY considering he didn't actually succeed in holding him down all that well, (Cell Max could still fly, move his wings, swing Piccolo's body back and forth, etc.), doesn't actually imply he's relative. It should also be noted that Cell Max was clearly pushing it's body to the limit by creating the power sphere it DID, so regardless, Piccolo doesn't scale. At least, not well, or any significant downscaling outside of "brutally beaten down by the Android, hurt it never."

Also, none of this actually resolves the issue I brought up. Piccolo can sense God Ki. He sensed Gogeta's power. Hell, it sensed Gogeta's LATENT POWER before he even transformed. Piccolo KNOWS how strong Gogeta is. He KNOWS how strong Moro Arc Goku and Vegeta are. And yet, according to him, the Gammas are = to both Goku and Vegeta, and Goku and Vegeta might not have been able to beat Cell Max. No matter how you slice it, we're given explicit reference on where these character sit in reference to Goku and Vegeta in and out of film, and that list goes:

Gamma = Goku and Vegeta Level, likely meant SSB Moro Goku and Vegeta.
Ultimate Piccolo/Gohan ~ Gammas
Orange Piccolo >>> Gammas, can no sell dozens of strikes and lay them out in one shot
Cell Max ~ "Broly," considered stronger if completed, realistically scales above him regardless, his battle on Earth is considered "the strongest battle," this occurs after BlacK Frieza, UE, TUI, etc., told to us by Piccolo to be a threat even Goku and Vegeta would've not been enough for, despite knowing the strength of SSB Gogeta.
Gohan Beast >> Cell Max, with Cell Max potentially nerfed to a mild degree, but his battle is considered the strongest battle, and casually took blows from Cell Max as well as ended a power ball condensed with likely all of Cell Max's power into one large sphere, similar to Teen Gohan, which we know can circumvent loss in power via injury, with Cell Max clearly was pushing his body and power to the limit to attempt to kill Gohan.

Gohan's sadistic weakness is basically gone, anyway, though? There's a vast difference between tanking an attack, doing a punch, and then going for the kill to "let me slowly torture you, call you a '******,' tell everyone no when they suggest to kill the bad guy already because I've not finished having my fun, and in the end allow people I care about to ultimately die due to my arrogance." He took a punch, and gave one, and then killed. That was basically it.

Goku's profile:

Universe level (Stronger than before, as he has been training with Vegeta for a while, and most recently with Broly), at least Universe level+ as a Super Saiyan Blue (By the time of Dragon Ball Super: Super Hero, Goku is touted as being on par with Orange Piccolo, who can fight against Cell Max)

Even if you assume that Orange Piccolo is solidly above the Super Hero SSGSS level, he's still not anywhere near enough to compete with Broly. As I mentioned before, Super Saiyan Broly alone was already enough to completely invalidate the combined efforts of SSGSS Goku and Vegeta combined, and he unlocked a transformation nearly equivalent to Super Saiyan Blue on top of that due to scaling to SSGSS Gogeta.
The difference between SSJ Broly and Broly Movie Goku and Vegeta is so vast that Goku and Vegeta needed to fuse (making Base Gogeta superior to SSGSS already), and said fusion needed to use Super Saiyan to keep up with Broly, which is another massive jump in power
Orange Piccolo 1 shotting Gamma 2 is still not enough to justify him being Ultra levels of power, as even if you assume Gamma 2 is superior to SSGSS Goku from the Broly Movie, 1 shotting someone only requires a 30% power increase (as shown with Vegeta vs Cui). In that fight, Cui was ******** himself when Vegeta's power level was merely 19000, despite being 18000 himself. When Vegeta got serious (PL of 24000), he punched Cui so hard that he ran him straight through, straight through the Frieza Army Battle Armor, which is more damage than Orange Piccolo dealt against Gamma 2.
Even if you generously scale him to be over 100 times stronger than SSGSS Goku and Vegeta individually, it still pales in comparison to Broly's near SSGSS level power difference.
As for author statements, the only feat we have saying that Gohan's power is UI level is that he was stated to be the "strongest" by the same guy who made the God Scale and the Dyspo speed of light comment. His actual feats in the movie pale in comparison

1. Yes, you're right, Cell Max at his best was on par with Broly presumably as of Super Hero, who is unquantifiably stronger than he was before, but likely not by a vast margine. Issue is, Cell Max was nowhere near full power against Gohan, due to the liabilities that I mentioned earlier

2. Even if you assume that attacking Cell Max's weak spot didn't make him weaker, he still had other liabilities that imply that he's not as strong as him healthy state by the time he fought Gohan. Heck, Piccolo stated that if Gamma 2 didn't blow himself up, they wouldn't have won at all.
Sure you can claim that Beast Gohan is still stronger than Cell Max at his best and that Gamma 2 didn't need to blow himself up for them to win, but to claim that would be to completely miss the purpose of Gamma 2's sacrifice and make his death pointless. I don't think the authors intended that to happen

3. Uh, no, in every situation the character in DBZ who loses functionality of their arm is stated to not be at full power. Future Gohan only got stronger because he trained for years after losing his arm, which makes sense lmao. As for kid SSJ2 Gohan, he was very clearly weakened from the injury and only won because 1. Cell got cocky af and wasn't actually trying, 2. Vegeta distracted Cell long enough for Gohan to take advantage of the situation (in DBZ if you're caught off guard bullets can hurt you as proven by a 3A Goku not training for a while and getting caught off guard with a car robber), and 3. Gohan plot armor adrenaline bullshit. It also goes against the plot to say that Cell Max didn't get weaker due to the aformentioned Gamma 2 death scene.

4. both Orange Piccolo and Ultimate Gohan were capable of staggering Cell Max even before Gamma 2 sacrificed himself, and yeah even thought Cell Max was very clearly superior, he was still greatly weakened at that point. Saying that he's only "mildly" weak makes no sense even if we use the scaling chain you yourself provided

"Gamma = Goku and Vegeta Level, likely meant SSB Moro Goku and Vegeta.
Ultimate Piccolo/Gohan ~ Gammas
Orange Piccolo >>> Gammas, can no sell dozens of strikes and lay them out in one shot
Cell Max ~ "Broly," considered stronger if completed, realistically scales above him regardless, his battle on Earth is considered "the strongest battle," this occurs after BlacK Frieza, UE, TUI, etc., told to us by Piccolo to be a threat even Goku and Vegeta would've not been enough for, despite knowing the strength of SSB Gogeta.
Gohan Beast >> Cell Max, with Cell Max potentially nerfed to a mild degree, but his battle is considered the strongest battle, and casually took blows from Cell Max as well as ended a power ball condensed with likely all of Cell Max's power into one large sphere, similar to Teen Gohan, which we know can circumvent loss in power via injury, with Cell Max clearly was pushing his body and power to the limit to attempt to kill Gohan."

If the Gammas were on par with SSGSS Goku and Vegeta as of the Moro or Granolah arcs, then Piccolo 1 shotting them still pales in comparison to Broly due to how easily a full power Broly can trash SSGS Goku and Vegeta as well as the Vegeta vs Cui scaling. Saying that Cell Max scales anywhere near Black Frieza also makes no sense since not only did Piccol onever sense him, but we're talking about a guy who went from Low 4C to hundreds of times baseline3A in 4 months, got another SSGSS level boost after the Black arc even thought he literally couldn't move, trained foryhears after the ToP to the point that he could midly match SSJ Broly, and then trained for 10 STRAIGHT YEARS with that same level of potential and RE, to the point that Goku and Vegeta deemed it necessary to force Broly to run away to Beerus's planet. Gohan might have author statements sure but he simply doesn't have any fats or logic behind scaling above Black Frieza

5. Gohan decided to do literally nothing even after Cell charged his power ball, only powering up after P:iccolo told him to get his ass moving. He can't afford to do even that against Broly, especially consdering how they are in the Null Realm, with no danger to the earth whatsoever

Let's generously assume that Gohan is capable of trashing Cell Max even at his strongest. That's still not going to be enough against Broly considering how he went from being far weaker than Base Goku and Vegeta initially to being stronger than a Super Saiyan Blue within literally seconds of fighting Goku and Vegeta. You can argue that he didn't showcase this RE against Gogeta, but the entire purpose of Broly's character is his extremely vast potential and RE. Making Gogeta win due to hype and plot significance doesn't change the fact that Broly still has the ability to vastly outperform Gohan after seconds

Gohan would have to OHKO him literally right off the bat, which he has literally never done against anyone except Cell Max, and he only did that against Cell Max because 1 the world's in danger 2. Piccolo egged him on and 3. he didn't even1 shot him he kicked him in the stomach first.

Any disadvantage Broly might have against Gohan can be circumvented by his RE + God Bind camping, plus instantly learning everything Goham dopes instinctively.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I just want to point out that Goku and Vegeta are stronger than Broly in the Granolah Arc as they're explicitly stated to be the strongest people in the universe before Granolah and Gas make their wishes and before Frieza shows up. That's all I'm contributing to this.

 

[RedReaper616]

Goku's profile:

Universe level (Stronger than before, as he has been training with Vegeta for a while, and most recently with Broly), at least Universe level+ as a Super Saiyan Blue (By the time of Dragon Ball Super: Super Hero, Goku is touted as being on par with Orange Piccolo, who can fight against Cell Max)

Even if you assume that Orange Piccolo is solidly above the Super Hero SSGSS level, he's still not anywhere near enough to compete with Broly. As I mentioned before, Super Saiyan Broly alone was already enough to completely invalidate the combined efforts of SSGSS Goku and Vegeta combined, and he unlocked a transformation nearly equivalent to Super Saiyan Blue on top of that due to scaling to SSGSS Gogeta.
The difference between SSJ Broly and Broly Movie Goku and Vegeta is so vast that Goku and Vegeta needed to fuse (making Base Gogeta superior to SSGSS already), and said fusion needed to use Super Saiyan to keep up with Broly, which is another massive jump in power
Orange Piccolo 1 shotting Gamma 2 is still not enough to justify him being Ultra levels of power, as even if you assume Gamma 2 is superior to SSGSS Goku from the Broly Movie, 1 shotting someone only requires a 30% power increase (as shown with Vegeta vs Cui). In that fight, Cui was ******** himself when Vegeta's power level was merely 19000, despite being 18000 himself. When Vegeta got serious (PL of 24000), he punched Cui so hard that he ran him straight through, straight through the Frieza Army Battle Armor, which is more damage than Orange Piccolo dealt against Gamma 2.
Even if you generously scale him to be over 100 times stronger than SSGSS Goku and Vegeta individually, it still pales in comparison to Broly's near SSGSS level power difference.
As for author statements, the only feat we have saying that Gohan's power is UI level is that he was stated to be the "strongest" by the same guy who made the God Scale and the Dyspo speed of light comment. His actual feats in the movie pale in comparison

This still doesn’t actually cover the fact SSB SH Goku is vastly above his Broly film self, and that within context, being on par with Goku and Vegeta means he can fight their strongest forms and not be outclassed. And lack of feats is irrelevant? It’s a fight between a character whose only appeared on screen once Vs another character who has only appeared on screen once. Word of God is essential to determine the difference between them, and word of God says Gohan > Broly.

1. Yes, you're right, Cell Max at his best was on par with Broly presumably as of Super Hero, who is unquantifiably stronger than he was before, but likely not by a vast margine. Issue is, Cell Max was nowhere near full power against Gohan, due to the liabilities that I mentioned earlier

How can you say this, but then deny that Gohan scales above Broly later? You are literally saying Gohan > Mildly Nerfed Cell Max, who is ~ Mildly Stronger Broly, who is > The Broly you saw last film. The only way Broly can be both > Gohan and yet Gohan > Weakened Cell Max (who is ~ Stronger Broly) is if Cell Max was weakened to such a stupendous degree he was a non-threat. Which isn’t the case. And it’s literally made out to be that Gohan overwhelmed and frightened the beast.

2. Even if you assume that attacking Cell Max's weak spot didn't make him weaker, he still had other liabilities that imply that he's not as strong as him healthy state by the time he fought Gohan. Heck, Piccolo stated that if Gamma 2 didn't blow himself up, they wouldn't have won at all.
Sure you can claim that Beast Gohan is still stronger than Cell Max at his best and that Gamma 2 didn't need to blow himself up for them to win, but to claim that would be to completely miss the purpose of Gamma 2's sacrifice and make his death pointless. I don't think the authors intended that to happen

And yet Gohan is still touted as the strongest according to his film right now, and the internal scaling of the series. And he only had the missing arm. There were no other nerfing of Cell Max’s power.

3. Uh, no, in every situation the character in DBZ who loses functionality of their arm is stated to not be at full power. Future Gohan only got stronger because he trained for years after losing his arm, which makes sense lmao.

No, he didn’t. Gohan lost his arm and then at best trained for months (which doesn’t make sense, because it was the immediate next time the Androids attacked, and it was stated they attack frequently). We know this because Trunks didn’t age, and he pointedly does later in the special to annotate this. At best he had like, a few weeks. Not “Years.” Future TRUNKS had years.

As for kid SSJ2 Gohan, he was very clearly weakened from the injury and only won because 1. Cell got cocky af and wasn't actually trying, 2. Vegeta distracted Cell long enough for Gohan to take advantage of the situation (in DBZ if you're caught off guard bullets can hurt you as proven by a 3A Goku not training for a while and getting caught off guard with a car robber), and 3. Gohan plot armor adrenaline bullshit. It also goes against the plot to say that Cell Max didn't get weaker due to the aformentioned Gamma 2 death scene.

1) Cell literally was touting how he could blow up the Solar System with his newfound power. Whilst he might not have given every inch/ounce of his power, it’s disingenuous to say he was holding back to such an extent. 2) Yes, Vegeta did blast him and break his concentration. But that’s not indicative of the power Gohan was able to release. The point was, Teen Gohan could release all of his power regardless of his limitation. 3) “Gohan Plot Armor Adrenaline Bullshit.” Uhm, ignoring the fact the plot had been building up to this moment for some time now, and the fact it makes narrative sense both internally and externally, how does this refute the fact it’s possible to release all your Ki for an attack whilst sustaining serious injuries?

4. both Orange Piccolo and Ultimate Gohan were capable of staggering Cell Max even before Gamma 2 sacrificed himself, and yeah even thought Cell Max was very clearly superior, he was still greatly weakened at that point. Saying that he's only "mildly" weak makes no sense even if we use the scaling chain you yourself provided

Ultimate Gohan did no such thing. The entire fight he was SSJ, and only went Ultimate when he was given a Senzu Bean. Orange Piccolo barely, if at all, did damage to Cell Max. Mind you, by this logic DBS Broly Base Goku and SSJ Goku would be > SSG Vegeta because Goku can take punches from Ikari Broly before going SSG and make him move backwards, when it’s not the case whatsoever. Like established prior, it’s made clear Piccolo does not operate on Cell Max’s level whatsoever.

"Gamma = Goku and Vegeta Level, likely meant SSB Moro Goku and Vegeta.
Ultimate Piccolo/Gohan ~ Gammas
Orange Piccolo >>> Gammas, can no sell dozens of strikes and lay them out in one shot
Cell Max ~ "Broly," considered stronger if completed, realistically scales above him regardless, his battle on Earth is considered "the strongest battle," this occurs after BlacK Frieza, UE, TUI, etc., told to us by Piccolo to be a threat even Goku and Vegeta would've not been enough for, despite knowing the strength of SSB Gogeta.
Gohan Beast >> Cell Max, with Cell Max potentially nerfed to a mild degree, but his battle is considered the strongest battle, and casually took blows from Cell Max as well as ended a power ball condensed with likely all of Cell Max's power into one large sphere, similar to Teen Gohan, which we know can circumvent loss in power via injury, with Cell Max clearly was pushing his body and power to the limit to attempt to kill Gohan."

If the Gammas were on par with SSGSS Goku and Vegeta as of the Moro or Granolah arcs, then Piccolo 1 shotting them still pales in comparison to Broly due to how easily a full power Broly can trash SSGS Goku and Vegeta as well as the Vegeta vs Cui scaling. Saying that Cell Max scales anywhere near Black Frieza also makes no sense since not only did Piccol onever sense him, but we're talking about a guy who went from Low 4C to hundreds of times baseline3A in 4 months, got another SSGSS level boost after the Black arc even thought he literally couldn't move, trained foryhears after the ToP to the point that he could midly match SSJ Broly, and then trained for 10 STRAIGHT YEARS with that same level of potential and RE, to the point that Goku and Vegeta deemed it necessary to force Broly to run away to Beerus's planet. Gohan might have author statements sure but he simply doesn't have any fats or logic behind scaling above Black Frieza

This is still ignoring Piccolo knows what Gogeta Blue can do and said Goku and Vegeta might not have been able to win. You continually are ignoring this. Also, it doesn’t, as per SoulCaliber, (who is right here), the group on Planet Cereal were the “Strongest in the Universe.” Hell, in a conversation about said arc, Toyo ignored Broly’s mention in an interview about beings who would still be above Goku in power, and even stated the people battling were “1st, 2nd, and 3rd” for the ranking. Broly simply isn’t in the top 3, pre-Black Frieza and Beast Gohan, and we know both of those characters > Granolah Arc Goku and Vegeta.

5. Gohan decided to do literally nothing even after Cell charged his power ball, only powering up after P:iccolo told him to get his ass moving. He can't afford to do even that against Broly, especially consdering how they are in the Null Realm, with no danger to the earth whatsoever

Except Broly is weaker, slower, less intelligent, less skilled, and Gohan is likely to notice his increasing power.

Let's generously assume that Gohan is capable of trashing Cell Max even at his strongest. That's still not going to be enough against Broly considering how he went from being far weaker than Base Goku and Vegeta initially to being stronger than a Super Saiyan Blue within literally seconds of fighting Goku and Vegeta. You can argue that he didn't showcase this RE against Gogeta, but the entire purpose of Broly's character is his extremely vast potential and RE. Making Gogeta win due to hype and plot significance doesn't change the fact that Broly still has the ability to vastly outperform Gohan after seconds

He did show his evolution against Gogeta. That’s not in question. The LSSJ form in itself was his RE closing the gap between him and SSJ Gogeta. Gogeta just widened it again with SSB, and even then he couldn’t put Broly down after hitting him with several finishers. Gohan won’t have that same issue here.

Gohan would have to OHKO him literally right off the bat, which he has literally never done against anyone except Cell Max, and he only did that against Cell Max because 1 the world's in danger 2. Piccolo egged him on and 3. he didn't even1 shot him he kicked him in the stomach first.

His kick literally made Cell Max attempt a Hail Mary giant Ki orb that made his body start seemingly like it was glitching out. I’m going on a limb to say Gohan wasn’t dicking around as much as you’re trying to imply. He was confused when Cell Max first whipped out the Ki Orb, only for it to then change to a cocky smirk. He then immediately, only at the SHOUT OF HIS NAME, dropped it and murdered Cell Max. Sure, Piccolo said something…but he literally said his name. And last time, when he was given the order to kill his opponent, he told them to **** off. Clearly, his sadism isn’t that much of an issue. If at all.

Any disadvantage Broly might have against Gohan can be circumvented by his RE + God Bind camping, plus instantly learning everything Goham dopes instinctively.

“God Bind Camping.” Broly isn’t intelligent enough to do this. Further, Gohan would note his rising power trying to close the gap to his superior one and act. And worse, the God Bind is one of the very few hax that can be reversed by a being on higher power, and Gohan is exactly that. He’s gonna do it on Gohan, have it get reversed, and then get headshotted. There’s no scenario where Broly wins.

Also, count my vote for Gohan. That’s 8 to 1.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Voting Gohan FRA

 

[Mickey1940]

This still doesn’t actually cover the fact SSB SH Goku is vastly above his Broly film self, and that within context, being on par with Goku and Vegeta means he can fight their strongest forms and not be outclassed. And lack of feats is irrelevant? It’s a fight between a character whose only appeared on screen once Vs another character who has only appeared on screen once. Word of God is essential to determine the difference between them, and word of God says Gohan > Broly.

How can you say this, but then deny that Gohan scales above Broly later? You are literally saying Gohan > Mildly Nerfed Cell Max, who is ~ Mildly Stronger Broly, who is > The Broly you saw last film. The only way Broly can be both > Gohan and yet Gohan > Weakened Cell Max (who is ~ Stronger Broly) is if Cell Max was weakened to such a stupendous degree he was a non-threat. Which isn’t the case. And it’s literally made out to be that Gohan overwhelmed and frightened the beast.

And yet Gohan is still touted as the strongest according to his film right now, and the internal scaling of the series. And he only had the missing arm. There were no other nerfing of Cell Max’s power.

No, he didn’t. Gohan lost his arm and then at best trained for months (which doesn’t make sense, because it was the immediate next time the Androids attacked, and it was stated they attack frequently). We know this because Trunks didn’t age, and he pointedly does later in the special to annotate this. At best he had like, a few weeks. Not “Years.” Future TRUNKS had years.

1) Cell literally was touting how he could blow up the Solar System with his newfound power. Whilst he might not have given every inch/ounce of his power, it’s disingenuous to say he was holding back to such an extent. 2) Yes, Vegeta did blast him and break his concentration. But that’s not indicative of the power Gohan was able to release. The point was, Teen Gohan could release all of his power regardless of his limitation. 3) “Gohan Plot Armor Adrenaline Bullshit.” Uhm, ignoring the fact the plot had been building up to this moment for some time now, and the fact it makes narrative sense both internally and externally, how does this refute the fact it’s possible to release all your Ki for an attack whilst sustaining serious injuries?

Ultimate Gohan did no such thing. The entire fight he was SSJ, and only went Ultimate when he was given a Senzu Bean. Orange Piccolo barely, if at all, did damage to Cell Max. Mind you, by this logic DBS Broly Base Goku and SSJ Goku would be > SSG Vegeta because Goku can take punches from Ikari Broly before going SSG and make him move backwards, when it’s not the case whatsoever. Like established prior, it’s made clear Piccolo does not operate on Cell Max’s level whatsoever.

This is still ignoring Piccolo knows what Gogeta Blue can do and said Goku and Vegeta might not have been able to win. You continually are ignoring this. Also, it doesn’t, as per SoulCaliber, (who is right here), the group on Planet Cereal were the “Strongest in the Universe.” Hell, in a conversation about said arc, Toyo ignored Broly’s mention in an interview about beings who would still be above Goku in power, and even stated the people battling were “1st, 2nd, and 3rd” for the ranking. Broly simply isn’t in the top 3, pre-Black Frieza and Beast Gohan, and we know both of those characters > Granolah Arc Goku and Vegeta.

Except Broly is weaker, slower, less intelligent, less skilled, and Gohan is likely to notice his increasing power.

He did show his evolution against Gogeta. That’s not in question. The LSSJ form in itself was his RE closing the gap between him and SSJ Gogeta. Gogeta just widened it again with SSB, and even then he couldn’t put Broly down after hitting him with several finishers. Gohan won’t have that same issue here.

His kick literally made Cell Max attempt a Hail Mary giant Ki orb that made his body start seemingly like it was glitching out. I’m going on a limb to say Gohan wasn’t dicking around as much as you’re trying to imply. He was confused when Cell Max first whipped out the Ki Orb, only for it to then change to a cocky smirk. He then immediately, only at the SHOUT OF HIS NAME, dropped it and murdered Cell Max. Sure, Piccolo said something…but he literally said his name. And last time, when he was given the order to kill his opponent, he told them to **** off. Clearly, his sadism isn’t that much of an issue. If at all.

“God Bind Camping.” Broly isn’t intelligent enough to do this. Further, Gohan would note his rising power trying to close the gap to his superior one and act. And worse, the God Bind is one of the very few hax that can be reversed by a being on higher power, and Gohan is exactly that. He’s gonna do it on Gohan, have it get reversed, and then get headshotted. There’s no scenario where Broly wins.

Also, count my vote for Gohan. That’s 8 to 1.

1. SH Goku isn't a whole Super Saiyan Blue stronger than his Broly movie self. Orange Piccolo still doesn't have enough feats OR statement of being on par with Goku or Vegeta in either of their Ultra forms, even if we use your own scaling chain. and I've already told you that WoG is inherently unreliable due to all of the bullshit they very frequently try to pass of to the fanbase

2. Because once again, Cell Max wasn't mildly nerfed for the reasons I mentioned above. THat was my entire point. Cell Max had already lost half his body and was pummeled beyond belief before he fought Saigo Gohan to the extent that Orange Piccolo could injure him despite his far lower position in the scaling chain.

3. I don't think I need to address this again. You missed all of my points numerous times

4. Training for months is still more significant than nothing. It makes sense that Future gohan would have surpassed his previous peak after that much time in a post apocalyptic world with literally nothing else better to do.

5. I don't see what you're trying to argue with this? Gohan was very clearly crippled and had his power pretty vastly drained after getting hit in the arm. He was implied to still be able to clap Super Perfect Cell before Vegeta threw his hissy fit. I don't see why you mentioned that "CeLl cOuLd BlOw uP tHe SoLaR sYsTeM" disproves my point, as it doesn't have anything to do with my point in the first place.

6. Ultimate Gohan blocked Cell Max's elbow, kicked it away, kicked him in the face, then (after a brief scuffle between Cell Max and PIccolo) uppercut him and sent him backflipping across the battlefield. As for Goku, he literally never even touched Broly in the entire movie, nor did Broly go Ikari.

7. I never claimed Broly was stronger than UI Goku? I simply don't agree that Gohan scales above that level either due to his lack of feats and the inherent unreliability of author statements. Piccolo and Gohan also specifically mentioned that they didn't think Goku OR Vegeta could beat Cell Max, not both of them simultaneously, which further disproves the arguments that Cell Max scales anywhere near Gogeta (I sent the movie link in one of my earlier points, go watch it)

8. Arguing that Broly has the stats disadvantage is addressed by several of my previous arguments, arguing for his skill advantage when he was overwhelming Goku and Vegeta and copying their abilities is hard to say, and arguing that Gohan will notice his power rising before it's too late is also not relevant since Broly can become trillions of times stronger within seconds

9. Piccol was basically begging Gohan to "FIRE IT NOW!!!. He had a lot more encouragement than just him screaming his name. And unlike Broly, Cell Max doesn't have saiyan physiology nor insane RE< so he didn't have anything to counter Gohan's AP advantage at the time, plus as I mentoned before he was already greatly weakened

10. That's literally what he did against Goku, he kinda just lkocked him in God Bind and thrashed him until Goku was forced to manually break out of it with SSGSS. And once again Gohan can't stop Broly's RE early enough before Broly closes what little gap they could possibly have between them

Once again, literally any advantage Gohan might have on Broly just gets completely negated unless Gohan 1 shots him right off the bat, which he never does in character. Any longer and Broly just RE's Gohan into irrelevancy

still voting Broly

 

[Gohanblanco217]

6. Ultimate Gohan blocked Cell Max's elbow, kicked it away, kicked him in the face, then (after a brief scuffle between Cell Max and PIccolo) uppercut him and sent him backflipping across the battlefield.

He only pushed Cell max with some punches...... that's all his did, he still failed to do any real damage to him during the whole fight, everybody were able to do the same thing to Cell max anyway and that includes Krillin, 18, base Goten and Trunks and literally everybody

 

[Mickey1940]

He only pushed Cell max with some punches...... that's all his did, he still failed to do any real damage to him during the whole fight, everybody were able to do the same thing to Cell max anyway and that includes Krillin, 18, base Goten and Trunks and literally everybody

Unlike with Gohan, the other examples are VERY obvious examples of PiS. Gohan's not much weaker than Orange Piccolo at this point, especially considering how Piccolo was weakened from being injured in battle while Gohan just ate a Senzu. Both were able to harm Cell Max

 

[Ovrhide]

I just want to point out that Goku and Vegeta are stronger than Broly in the Granolah Arc as they're explicitly stated to be the strongest people in the universe before Granolah and Gas make their wishes and before Frieza shows up. That's all I'm contributing to this.

And I’m here to add the context that Broly is stated to be the strongest foe in the super hero movie.

not at all a point against you, more like broly getting stronger after his fight with Gogeta, to the point of surpassing them.

tho irrelevant since this is HIS movie version, which actually does get beat. So I would have agreed to gohan regardless, even tho that decision was made a while ago.