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Battle between the World's Strongest Right-Hand Men (One Piece)

TheMonkeMan said:
You said he underestimated Marco. Also, it was two people against Marco, anyway,so why would King go all out?
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Queen did nothing, bruh. Marco have alot of bruishes in his face and Body, Sanji and Marco vs Queen and King get domilished, Naratively. Tell me rn how the hell Marco would damage King when his flame on? Even Zoro's Goken doesn't works.
 
WrongIdea21 said:
Queen did nothing, bruh. Marco have alot of bruishes in his face and Body, Sanji and Marco vs Queen and King get domilished, Naratively. Tell me rn how the hell Marco would damage King when his flame on? Even Zoro's Goken doesn't works.
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Maybe...
Marco > Zoro's Goken?????
 
The anime depicted Yamato struggling against a ******* kaido statue for like 15 seconds, while Yamato was able to slam Kaidou into the ground and perfectly counter his bolo breath in the Manga, so tell me the Anime depictions are worth using for arguments about manga scenes after all of that
 
TheMonkeMan said:
The anime depicted Yamato struggling against a ******* kaido statue for like 15 seconds, while Yamato was able to slam Kaidou into the ground and perfectly counter his bolo breath in the Manga, so tell me the Anime depictions are worth using for arguments about manga scenes after all of that
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Cinematic timing for the statue (and the usual episode stretching).

Anime can still be used to clarify vague manga stuff.
 
KingTempest said:
Maybe...
Marco > Zoro's Goken?????
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Pre-flame biology retcon. Regardless though his stronger named attack in Hybrid did nothing.
KingTempest said:
Marco is also smart enough to notice King's ability, and he potentially has prior knowledge on Lunarians as well.
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Not sure about this, his only prior knowledge was him figuring out that the species WB was talking about was the same race King was and even then it didn't seem like he had any knowledge on how their biology works.
KingTempest said:
shown by how he didn't use Buso against Marco
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We see Marco's face bloodied and bruised during the fight, so yeah he did use haki against him.
 
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Eseseso said:
@Eminiteable

Which one do you vote for?
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I think it's close.

In terms of speed I do think King would have the slight advantage even when ignited; Base King could tag Marco in his Zoan forms and scales to Zoro who intercepted Big Mom and Kaidou (who scale to Zoan Marco), with his Zoan forms he would be faster which would give him a slight advantage in speed over Marco. If he turned off his flame that advantage would significantly increase and with Imperial Deep Pride Stake it would just definitively blitz Marco.

Marco does hold the advantage in lifting strength which he utilized twice in the canon battle and although he didn't really capitalize on it in the actual fight himself (he instead just used it to stall King & Queen and allow Chopper to get a free hit in) I could definitely see him utilizing it to land a free Phoenix brand on King. Although I don't believe this advantage will be incredibly effective as even if he does grab King and then attempt to land a Phoenix brand I believe King's ignited durability would tank it similar to the Blue bird, and assuming he was un-ignited (Which would be harder for Marco to even tag in the first place) he would have enough time to re-ignite himself. In this situation King could also do what he did in the fight with Zoro where he baited him into getting very close to his body (as Marco would be in the scenario) and then self-destruct; This wouldn't leave lasting damage on Marco as explosions very likely can't be imbued with Buso but it would definitely destroy Marco's Body forcing him to regenerate and taxing his stamina somewhat.

When it comes to their main defensive options:
Marco's are his regeneration and defensive barrier with Undying Thistle. For Marco I don't see him using Undying Thistle in this battle as although it would stop a single attack I don't believe he can spam it nor would it be as effective in conserving stamina as simply dodging or regenerating; Also in canon he's only ever used this ability to protect others so I'm a bit skeptical on if he'll use it in a 1v1 to protect himself. Marco's regeneration is great and for most hits it will allow him to avoid damage from King but when King uses Haki it will be negated causing lasting damage; And I do believe King will use it considering in the canon battle we see Marco is bloodied despite his regeneration suggesting Haki was used against him, in fact in 1005 we see him seemingly wipe blood from his mouth after defending against an attack from King.​
​
King's are his Ignited Durability which is even higher in Zoan forms. King frequently switches between his zoan forms depending on the situation although doing so doesn't really negate or hinder his effectiveness in this fight. When he's ignited in Base he can tank a Hybrid Blue Bird from Marco and in Full Zoan tank a tatsumaki which cut Zoan Kaidou's scales. As for if he un-ignites his flame these are the following times he does that; Whenever he's in Hybrid form, when using Imperial Pride Stake in Full Zoan, when he's afraid of taking damage in his ignited state (Zoro) and I also imagine he'd turn it on if he was slower than his opponent. For the last two I don't see being relevant to this fight, Hybrid is also a rare thing he uses but a possibility and lastly Imperial Deep Pride Stake has only ever been used when he has significant distance between himself and his opponent or if his opponent is caught off-guard.​
​
In terms of Stamina both are pretty much being assumed equal from scaling above the 5 day benchmark that those inferior to them scale too. In terms of endurance as mentioned Marco can take Kizaru's lasers without batting an eye (although this may be due to his regeneration speed being so fast it mitigates pain as when he was in Base he was noticeably harmed) While King can take slashes to the face and body and moments later act like nothing happened, he also scales to the other Ancient Zoan's endurance & recovery alongside his Lunarian endurance being very hyped up.
Also if he is tagged by Marco with his flame un-ignited his durability does still scale to his physicals in base or Zoan forms which is the same value as his ignited durability he just won't tank those hits like ignited would; his endurance and recovery as described above would allow him to survive them.​

As for AP they both scale to the same value at 1.032 PT in their base and on top of that they have their amps; Base King does scale via cutting off Zoan Marco's wing which would scale to Marco's physicals, although, Marco's special techniques like Phoenix Brand and Blue Bird probably scale above this. King can also amp himself with his Zoan forms, Buso, Lunarian flames and his strongest techniques. Personally based on the scaling chain I think King holds a slight advantage normally with his special attacks like Self-Destruction and Imperial Deep Pride Stake giving him a significant advantage if they land.

In terms of range King would hold the advantage as even when it comes to Marco's ranged techniques like Blue Bird and Phoenix Brand it requires him to be somewhat close to land them. King has quite a few range options such as Magma Dragons in Base, Flame bullets or Imperial Deep Pride Stake in Full Zoan or Danmaku Air slashes in Hybrid.

Ultimately I believe King would win a close fight primarily due to having the advantage in certain categories and the fact his abilities can't be mitigated with the use of Haki.
 
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Eminiteable said:
I think it's close.

In terms of speed I do think King would have the slight advantage even when ignited; Base King could tag Marco in his Zoan forms and scales to Zoro who intercepted Big Mom and Kaidou (who scale to Zoan Marco), with his Zoan forms he would be faster which would give him a slight advantage in speed over Marco. If he turned off his flame that advantage would significantly increase and with Imperial Deep Pride Stake it would just definitively blitz Marco.

Marco does hold the advantage in lifting strength which he utilized twice in the canon battle and although he didn't really capitalize on it in the actual fight himself (he instead just used it to stall King & Queen and allow Chopper to get a free hit in) I could definitely see him utilizing it to land a free Phoenix brand on King. Although I don't believe this advantage will be incredibly effective as even if he does grab King and then attempt to land a Phoenix brand I believe King's ignited durability would tank it similar to the Blue bird, and assuming he was un-ignited (Which would be harder for Marco to even tag in the first place) he would have enough time to re-ignite himself. In this situation King could also do what he did in the fight with Zoro where he baited him into getting very close to his body (as Marco would be in the scenario) and then self-destruct; This wouldn't leave lasting damage on Marco as explosions very likely can't be imbued with Buso but it would definitely destroy Marco's Body forcing him to regenerate and taxing his stamina somewhat.

When it comes to their main defensive options:
Marco's are his regeneration and defensive barrier with Undying Thistle. For Marco I don't see him using Undying Thistle in this battle as although it would stop a single attack I don't believe he can spam it nor would it be as effective in conserving stamina as simply dodging or regenerating; Also in canon he's only ever used this ability to protect others so I'm a bit skeptical on if he'll use it in a 1v1 to protect himself. Marco's regeneration is great and for most hits it will allow him to avoid damage from King but when King uses Haki it will be negated causing lasting damage; And I do believe King will use it considering in the canon battle we see Marco is bloodied despite his regeneration suggesting Haki was used against him, in fact in 1005 we see him seemingly wipe blood from his mouth after defending against an attack from King.​
​
King's are his Ignited Durability which is even higher in Zoan forms. King frequently switches between his zoan forms depending on the situation although doing so doesn't really negate or hinder his effectiveness in this fight. When he's ignited in Base he can tank a Hybrid Blue Bird from Marco and in Full Zoan tank a tatsumaki which cut Zoan Kaidou's scales. As for if he un-ignites his flame these are the following times he does that; Whenever he's in Hybrid form, when using Imperial Pride Stake in Full Zoan, when he's afraid of taking damage in his ignited state (Zoro) and I also imagine he'd turn it on if he was slower than his opponent. For the last two I don't see being relevant to this fight, Hybrid is also a rare thing he uses but a possibility and lastly Imperial Deep Pride Stake has only ever been used when he has significant distance between himself and his opponent or if his opponent is caught off-guard.​
​
In terms of Stamina both are pretty much being assumed equal from scaling above the 5 day benchmark that those inferior to them scale too. In terms of endurance as mentioned Marco can take Kizaru's lasers without batting an eye (although this may be due to his regeneration speed being so fast it mitigates pain as when he was in Base he was noticeably harmed) While King can take slashes to the face and body and moments later act like nothing happened, he also scales to the other Ancient Zoan's endurance & recovery alongside his Lunarian endurance being very hyped up.
Also if he is tagged by Marco with his flame un-ignited his durability does still scale to his physicals in base or Zoan forms which is the same value as his ignited durability he just won't tank those hits like ignited would; his endurance and recovery as described above would allow him to survive them.​

As for AP they both scale to the same value at 1.032 PT in their base and on top of that they have their amps; Base King does scale via cutting off Zoan Marco's wing which would scale to his physicals, although, Marco's special techniques like Phoenix Brand and Blue Bird probably scale above this. King can also amp himself with his Zoan forms, Buso, Lunarian flames and his strongest techniques. Personally based on the scaling chain I think King holds a slight advantage normally with his special attacks like Self-Destruction and Imperial Deep Pride Stake giving him a significant advantage if they land.

Ultimately I believe King would win a close fight primarily due to having the advantage in certain categories and the fact his abilities can't be mitigated with the use of Haki.
Click to expand...
1. Excellent analysis!

2. That makes it 5-4 in Marco's favor
 
I think I'm going to vote for Marco due to his potent regenerative abilities, his performance against the Admirals at Marineford and ability to fight both base King and Queen and put them on the ropes by himself while only taking limited damage. He's also very smart and cautious, and he could play defensive to ensure that King can't damage him significantly with Haki. I'm also basing my vote on reputation, as Marco was said to be one of the few people capable of fighting Blackbeard and actually fought him during the war against Blackbeard's crew. It'd probably really tough, and Marco would definitely be worn out from King's most powerful attacks, but I think he'd take it after a long-fought battle.
 
CiscoTheSoto said:
I think I'm going to vote for Marco due to his potent regenerative abilities, his performance against the Admirals at Marineford and ability to fight both base King and Queen and put them on the ropes by himself while only taking limited damage. He's also very smart and cautious, and he could play defensive to ensure that King can't damage him significantly with Haki. I'm also basing my vote on reputation, as Marco was said to be one of the few people capable of fighting Blackbeard and actually fought him during the war against Blackbeard's crew. It'd probably really tough, and Marco would definitely be worn out from King's most powerful attacks, but I think he'd take it after a long-fought battle.
Click to expand...
But how can Marco damage Zoan King when an unleashed Enma (which hurt Zoan Kaido) couldn't even scratch him?
 
CiscoTheSoto said:
He's also very smart and cautious, and he could play defensive to ensure that King can't damage him significantly with Haki
Click to expand...
Honestly cautious isn't what I'd call Marco at all:
  • Against Kizaru he used his body and force field (formed from his wings) to block Kizaru's attack then flew directly at him while taking those same attacks without any caution.
  • He charged towards the execution platform to save Ace despite knowing both Garp and Sengoku were up there and was caught completely off-guard by a bunch he probably could have avoided if he was more cautious.
  • In fairness here he was distracted by outside elements, but against Kizaru he turned his back got pierced by lasers which he himself says was careless and then gets caught off-guard by a vice-admiral putting sea stone on him only to be pierced by lasers again.
  • Against Big Mom he just directly charged her attack and then got immediately grabbed with Pero seemingly about to kill him.
  • He allowed random Beast Pirate fodder to willing pierce his body due to his confidence in his regeneration.
Based off nearly all of his showings he's not shown to be cautious at all when he attacks nor has he ever shown any type of defensive plays to keep himself safe from known Haki users.
 
Eminiteable said:
Honestly cautious isn't what I'd call Marco at all:
  • Against Kizaru he used his body and force field (formed from his wings) to block Kizaru's attack then flew directly at him while taking those same attacks without any caution.
  • He charged towards the execution platform to save Ace despite knowing both Garp and Sengoku were up there and was caught completely off-guard by a bunch he probably could have avoided if he was more cautious.
  • In fairness here he was distracted by outside elements, but against Kizaru he turned his back got pierced by lasers which he himself says was careless and then gets caught off-guard by a vice-admiral putting sea stone on him only to be pierced by lasers again.
  • Against Big Mom he just directly charged her attack and then got immediately grabbed with Pero seemingly about to kill him.
  • He allowed random Beast Pirate fodder to willing pierce his body due to his confidence in his regeneration.
Based off nearly all of his showings he's not shown to be cautious at all when he attacks nor has he ever shown any type of defensive plays to keep himself safe from known Haki users.
Click to expand...
I think it might slightly stem from him simply believing that he doesn't need to dodge most attacks since he can regenerate from them most of the time. Also, notice that Haki slows his regeneration but not that much, it only makes the user hit harder and more effectively. He got the soul knocked out of him by Garp ( who was admittedly just throwing a loose little punch with Haki infused but that doesn't take away from the fact that the hit was hard) and still managed to keep clapping cheeks on the battle field. Also, notice that King was still wrapped in bandages from his fight with Zoro, after a week had passed since the fight. Meanwhile Marco also had bandages after the marineford war but that had a ton of admirals, vice admirals, warlords, Garp, etc. But honestly, whether or not he truly needed bandages is debatable. What I'm saying is that Marco might have better Zoan Regeneration/Healing.
 
TheMonkeMan said:
I think it might slightly stem from him simply believing that he doesn't need to dodge most attacks since he can regenerate from them most of the time.
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That's exactly the reason, and it's why the idea that he'll suddenly fight cautiously just because he's fighting a guy who uses Haki is false.
TheMonkeMan said:
Also, notice that Haki slows his regeneration but not that much, it only makes the user hit harder and more effectively. He got the soul knocked out of him by Garp ( who was admittedly just throwing a loose little punch with Haki infused but that doesn't take away from the fact that the hit was hard) and still managed to keep clapping cheeks on the battle field.
Click to expand...
Haki prevents his flames of resurrection being effective on the area harmed as shown with Garp who with one punch gave lasting damage to Marco's head all the way to Post-Marineford.
TheMonkeMan said:
Also, notice that King was still wrapped in bandages from his fight with Zoro, after a week had passed since the fight. Meanwhile Marco also had bandages after the marineford war but that had a ton of admirals, vice admirals, warlords, Garp, etc. But honestly, whether or not he truly needed bandages is debatable. What I'm saying is that Marco might have better Zoan Regeneration/Healing.
Click to expand...
King took many deadly wounds from Hao Zoro, It's expected he wouldn't be healed from the types of wounds he received with just Zoan recovery while Marco's Flames of resurrection allow him to heal from any wounds, however, he was still injured from the only confirmed Haki wound which wasn't that fatal in Post-marineford.
 
Holy… might vote later but my first reaction is Marco

Marco has insanely good armament haki which is stated so I think that’s why I would give him an edge
 
At this point, I think grace should start as this being inconclusive, since both characters have reached 7 votes with basically even votes, unless some more people contribute with more votes within 24 hours.
 
Eminiteable said:
Not sure what statement that is but he has no feats with buso beyond tagging Kizaru and Aokiji which is a basic application.

Even in the post-timeskip he's yet to show even Koka.
Click to expand...
174-175.jpg
← He wears a blue flame and prevents Yellow Monkey's attacks! He is also a user of the highest power of the color of his armament.

Flies in the sky like a phoenix!
Captain of the 1st Squadron of the Whitebeard Pirates!

One of the oldest members of the Whitebeard Pirates. He is one of the most powerful among the captains, and even Shanks takes notice of him. In the Summit War, he fought evenly with the navy admirals and backed up Luffy. He achieved great results!

⬆️ This…
 
Eminiteable said:
Weird, when I translated that all it said was that he was a user of Buso, none of his highest power stuff.

Which again seems unreliable considering his lack of any feats showcasing great Buso usage
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I’ll ask king to translate it aswell, wait

on phone
 
青い炎を身にまとい黄猿の攻撃を防ぐ!!また、武装色の覇気の使い手でもある。

US
He wears blue flames to prevent Yellow Monkey's attacks! He is also a user of the high spirit of the color of his armament.

Uk
He wears blue flames and prevents Yellow Monkey's attacks! He is also a user of the armed-coloured Haiki.

I think you right, it’s supposed to say he’s a user of armament haki only i think

HOLY SHIT THIS PHONEEE!!’ SOO ANNOYING TO TRANSLATE

I think last time the us language confused me with the way it said it so I Changed it to the second option
 
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