BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

[Makai641001]

It wouldn't be because he created the thing in the first place, it would be a NLF to say he can image himself being comparable to anything, which isn't the claim i'm making.

Okay so his base stats are below his creation but he can imagine himself being strong or durable enough .

I think you explained it well I understand

 

[Deceived3596]

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Makai, the point of the AoE fallacy is that the DC can be less than the AP… so therefore his attack would have more AP than the multi con DC… so Kenny destroying it would mean he overcame its AP… hence he overcame Gremmy’s AP… thus Gremmy was shocked…

 

[Makai641001]

Makai, the point of the AoE fallacy is that the DC can be less than the AP… so therefore his attack would have more AP than the multi con DC… so Kenny destroying it would mean he overcame its AP… hence he overcame Gremmy’s AP… thus Gremmy was shocked…

My English is too bad to understand the whole sentence

Ik DC ≠ AP I know what an AOE fallacy is but I don’t see how it wouldn’t be limiting for Gremmy to shit his pants against someone that destroyed the meteor if he could do it too with his physicals that’s just it that I find weird

Also what about the SS = planet thing

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

My English is too bad to understand the whole sentence

Ik DC ≠ AP I know what an AOE fallacy is but I don’t see how it wouldn’t be limiting for Gremmy to shit his pants against someone that destroyed the meteor if he could do it too with his physicals that’s just it that I find weird

Goku’s punch has like rock level DC, but universal AP, if you block Goku’s punch are you rock level or universal?

 

[Makai641001]

Goku’s punch has like rock level DC, but universal AP, if you block Goku’s punch are you rock level or universal?

Uni

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Uni

Ok if Gremmy’s attack has say Galaxy AP but continental DC, and you block the attack, what are you?

 

[Makai641001]

Ok if Gremmy’s attack has say Galaxy AP but continental DC, and you block the attack, what are you?

Galaxy AP but the thing is he physically would die if faced with it and has to imagine himself surviving it which directly contradicts him scaling to it without amps

The meteor AP was Continental too and Zaraki blocked it which is continental and was enough to make everyone shit their pants kill Gremmy etc…

Zaraki destroying the Meteor with said DC has pretty much nothing to do with Gremmy’s physicals or him shocking Gremmy by overcoming his physicals wouldn’t it just mean Gremmy’s physicals are less than the meteor ?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Galaxy AP but the thing is he physically would die if faced with it and has to imagine himself surviving it which directly contradicts him scaling to it without amps

The meteor AP was Continental too and Zaraki blocked it which is continental and was enough to make everyone shit their pants kill Gremmy etc…

Zaraki destroying the Meteor with said DC has pretty much nothing to do with Gremmy’s physicals or him shocking Gremmy by overcoming his physicals wouldn’t it just mean Gremmy’s physicals are less than the meteor ?

if the thing has Galaxy AP it has Galaxy AP, the questions end there. I’m not making the claim that Gremmy is objectively Galaxy level. But to assert that because the meteor has tier 6 DC it can’t have higher AP is an AoE fallacy. Your second two paragraphs are meaningless because they assert that the meteor caps at continental. If you think Gremmy is continental cool, there’s no real point in our continued convo cuz I’m not here to convince you other. I’m saying you repetitively committing an AoE fallacy doesn’t debunk Galaxy Gremmy. Understood?

 

[Makai641001]

if the thing has Galaxy AP it has Galaxy AP, the questions end there. I’m not making the claim that Gremmy is objectively Galaxy level. But to assert that because the meteor has tier 6 DC it can’t have higher AP is an AoE fallacy. Your second two paragraphs are meaningless because they assert that the meteor caps at continental. If you think Gremmy is continental cool, there’s no real point in our continued convo cuz I’m not here to convince you other. I’m saying you repetitively committing an AoE fallacy doesn’t debunk Galaxy Gremmy. Understood?

Isn’t the AP of the feat calculated using the KE of the meteor.

If Gremmy was Galaxy lvl his meteor wouldn’t magically become Galaxy lvl it’s AP had nothing to do with this the power of the meteor is related to it’s mass and speed not to Gremmy having higher AP

Hence why destroying it and shocking Gremmy would mean he himself doesn’t scale to this meteor that hasn’t got an higher AP than it’s DC


I don’t think he is Galaxy lvl I just wanted to discuss the fact that he might not scale physically to it it’s okay we can stop there

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Isn’t the AP of the feat calculated using the KE of the meteor.

If he’s Galaxy level then his AP isn’t calculated from a 6-A meteor… I don’t think it’s that hard to understand

If Gremmy was Galaxy lvl his meteor wouldn’t magically become Galaxy lvl it’s AP had nothing to do with this the power of the meteor is related to it’s mass and speed not to Gremmy having higher AP

Yes it would lmao, if you have Galaxy AP your attacks are Galaxy level. Like cmon man think. It’s a meteor made by his schrift, it can have whatever AP Gremmy imagines it can (as long as he has the power to do so). Are you sure you read Bleach 3x?

Hence why destroying it and shocking Gremmy would mean he himself doesn’t scale to this meteor that hasn’t got an higher AP than it’s DC

Lol no, but we can chalk your misunderstanding up to your struggle with English as you said earlier

I don’t think he is Galaxy lvl I just wanted to discuss the fact that he might not scale physically to it it’s okay we can stop there

He scales physically to his attacks reread the fight

 

[Makai641001]

If he’s Galaxy level then his AP isn’t calculated from a 6-A meteor… I don’t think it’s that hard to understand

But the AP of the meteor is 6-A and Zaraki destroying it shocked a presumed 3-B dude by doing so said dude even called him a monster and the 6-A meteorite forced a 5x multiplier on

Yes it would lmao, if you have Galaxy AP your attacks are Galaxy level. Like cmon man think. It’s a meteor made by his schrift, it can have whatever AP Gremmy imagines it can (as long as he has the power to do so). Are you sure you read Bleach 3x?

So why is there a calculation about it’s KE then ? If Gremmy can magically make it Galaxy lvl ?
Also how is it supposed to be Galaxy lvl if he wants to
but it only affects the seireitei isn’t it against KE rules

Lol no, but we can chalk your misunderstanding up to your struggle with English as you said earlier

Possibly

He scales physically to his attacks reread the fight

The fight shows Zaraki slashing him

him realizing he is slow af

Him almost killing himself since his imagination was enough to kill him if he was thinking about defeat (so his imagination can kill him)

Creating a clone and explaining that his imagination is additional and having to imagine surviving it cause he wouldn’t normally

Then Zaraki destroying it and getting called a monster Blablabla

So Gremmy can be killed by his meteor that is 6-A
His meteor ain’t 3-B it limits itself to the destruction of seireitei
He has to double his power in order to be able to summon a 6-A meteor
But with 3.5 x more power he is supposed to create a Galaxy

So how are his base physicals on par with his creations

 

[Deceived3596]

He actually just doesn't understand.

 

[Reio35]

Isn’t the AP of the feat calculated using the KE of the meteor.

If Gremmy was Galaxy lvl his meteor wouldn’t magically become Galaxy lvl it’s AP had nothing to do with this the power of the meteor is related to it’s mass and speed not to Gremmy having higher AP

Hence why destroying it and shocking Gremmy would mean he himself doesn’t scale to this meteor that hasn’t got an higher AP than it’s DC


I don’t think he is Galaxy lvl I just wanted to discuss the fact that he might not scale physically to it it’s okay we can stop there

Arceus got one shot by a meteor yet he's still low complex multiversal

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Us: Goku can have uni AP despite his punches barely harming buildings right?

Makai: Yea

Us: So characters in fiction can have AP higher than the DC of their attacks

Makai: Yea

Us: So Gremmy can be Galaxy level via scaling despite his meteor only having tier 6 DC

Makai: No

real “Patrick is this your license” type beat. Well Makai I’m not going to repeat myself ad nauseam, so if we ever butt heads in a thread you can hopefully see why your argument here is wrong then

 

[Makai641001]

Us: Goku can have uni AP despite his punches barely harming buildings right?

Makai: Yea

Us: So characters in fiction can have AP higher than the DC of their attacks

Makai: Yea

Us: So Gremmy can be Galaxy level via scaling despite his meteor only having tier 6 DC

Makai: No

real “Patrick is this your license” type beat. Well Makai I’m not going to repeat myself ad nauseam, so if we ever butt heads in a thread you can hopefully see why your argument here is wrong then

Mhmh okay okay

You compare physical strikes for Goku’s uni exemple to something that base it’s energy on it’s mass and speed

But ig it’s my bad

Arceus got one shot by a meteor yet he's still low complex multiversal

He has avatars and it was discussed whether it would scale the meteor or not the answer is no and the thread was a joke thread.

I gtg anyway see y’all and thanks for the explanation

 

[Excellence616]

Dude it's funny how it's considered as outliers when Yhwach was literally trying to nuke the verse and recreate something new. I like it how people just brush off bleach characters feats by words like outliers. Anyway If it doens't scale to others it should have scaled fo Yhwach, Ichigo and Aizen who objectively has statement to be on Soul King level.

Along with Ginjo

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Can someone pass me up the klub Q&A where kubo re-estates that the novels are canon

 

[W0NDER3X]

CFYOW says planets which is backed up by Toshiro in Memories of Nobody and the databook and Also shown in the Manga

Iirc it’s Askin that says that Yhwatch plans on « destroying the AIR of this pitiful SS »

We Also know he talks about planets Here

So i didn’t know there were evidence contradicting ALL the canons but show them to me instead of acting like this

CFYOW says "if they could be likened to planets", which means that in this context they are not the planets that the narrator is referring to just like how the Garganta is not outer space.

You conveniently chose to "forget" (just like a certain mod did once) to add what Toshiro says right after this:

If those were the planets he was talking about he would've stopped at the previous sentence.

We are directly told what is within the Garganta - Kyogoku formed from souls that strayed from the Soul Cycle and very small amounts of Reishi, barely enough to make pathways and breathe. You see, the issue is that neither are we told that they are there, nor do we visually see in the diagrams you posted stars, which are clearly visible in the skies of all 3 realms. If they're not inside the Garganta then the only plausible place for them to be is within the boundaries of the realms themselves labeled as Soul Soceity and World of the Living.

In addition to the above, like I already said the terms "Soul Society", "World of the Living", "Hueco Mundo" have been used to refer to both the planets or the realms depending on the context. Air, soil, etc of the Soul Society refers to the planets that much is obvious. That however doesn't disprove any of the above.

 

[Makai641001]

CFYOW says "if they could be likened to planets", which means that in this context they are not the planets that the narrator is referring to just like how the Garganta is not outer space.

It just say that they can be likened/compared to planets that are connected by the Dangai a tube it is confirmed directly in the databook by Toshiro and Urahara in MON

You conveniently chose to "forget" (just like a certain mod did once) to add what Toshiro says right after this:

If those were the planets he was talking about he would've stopped at the previous sentence.

In this statement he talks about how the gathered souls inside Dangai connected both worlds.

Here you conveniently chose to forgot that Urahara explains how Dangai links both planets and why they can see cities from both planets

We are directly told what is within the Garganta - Kyogoku formed from souls that strayed from the Soul Cycle and very small amounts of Reishi, barely enough to make pathways and breathe. You see, the issue is that neither are we told that they are there, nor do we visually see in the diagrams you posted stars, which are clearly visible in the skies of all 3 realms. If they're not inside the Garganta then the only plausible place for them to be is within the boundaries of the realms themselves labeled as Soul Soceity and World of the Living.

The diagrams show the Dangai linking both structures which is proof about both being planets as stated in the databook and movies

In the movie the konpaku turned into blanks and formed inside Dangai

In addition to the above, like I already said the terms "Soul Society", "World of the Living", "Hueco Mundo" have been used to refer to both the planets or the realms depending on the context. Air, soil, etc of the Soul Society refers to the planets that much is obvious. That however doesn't disprove any of the above.

Do you have an exemple ?

Yeah hence why I said Yhwatch wanted to destroy the planet to cause unbalance since he wants to destroy the air of that pitiful SS

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Yeah hence why I said Yhwatch wanted to destroy the planet to cause unbalance since he wants to destroy the air of that pitiful SS

Base YH wanted to destroy the balance, but the plan failed and was abandoned

SK YH was just using his raw power to destroy the realms

 

[W0NDER3X]

It just say that they can be likened/compared to planets that are connected by the Dangai a tube it is confirmed directly in the databook by Toshiro and Urahara in MON

In this statement he talks about how the gathered souls inside Dangai connected both worlds.

Here you conveniently chose to forgot that Urahara explains how Dangai links both planets and why they can see cities from both planets

The diagrams show the Dangai linking both structures which is proof about both being planets as stated in the databook and movies

In the movie the konpaku turned into blanks and formed inside Dangai

Do you have an exemple ?

Yeah hence why I said Yhwatch wanted to destroy the planet to cause unbalance since he wants to destroy the air of that pitiful SS

No, it doesn't say "they can be" - it says "if they could be", means they're not. Common reading comprehension for ya.
The people in the Seireitei (which is not a city, in fact it is stated to house cities) and Karakura town can see each other because the Kyogoku acts as lens. Nothing complicated.

The rest I'm not sure how to respond to as it has nothing to do with the topic at hand and/or I've already dealt with in the previous post of mine. Like everyone already said if you're unable to grasp the basics just go to some past CRTs and read through them.

 

[Makai641001]

Base YH wanted to destroy the balance, but the plan failed and was abandoned

SK YH was just using his raw power to destroy the realms

Where was it stated ?

 

[Tyri456]

why so many bots spawned out of nowhere and tried to bring back 2015 Bleach scaling for 3 pages

 

[Makai641001]

No, it doesn't say "they can be" - it says "if they could be", means they're not. Common reading comprehension for ya.

The statement is backed up in all sources.
The author takes precendence on you
Databook states it links planets
Urahara does too
Manga explicitely say Dangai is the boundary between both worlds
Just talking about CFYOW and assuming something doesn’t invalidate at all the fact that said thing is repeated in every canon source

Dangai is the boundary that links the planets of SS and LW if you have explicit statements saying they are the dimensions not the planets then send it please

The people in the Seireitei (which is not a city, in fact it is stated to house cities) and Karakura town can see each other because the Kyogoku acts as lens. Nothing complicated.

It’s a kind of country ye

Karakura town popped in the sky of seireitei cuz both planets were attracted due to the imbalance

The rest I'm not sure how to respond to as it has nothing to do with the topic at hand and/or I've already dealt with in the previous post of mine. Like everyone already said if you're unable to grasp the basics just go to some past CRTs and read through them.

It’s been like 4 times that y’all say this but you could just you know actually read what is written on the panels I send cause I’ve sent many back ups

Also you told me you had explicit statements about SS being the dimension

 

[Makai641001]

why so many bots spawned out of nowhere and tried to bring back 2015 Bleach scaling for 3 pages

Cause no one wants to explain stuff and they just all tell me to go see threads without sending said threads to me

Also they basically adress one thing but won’t tell anything about the back ups

Y’all are even more toxic than Speedster I didn’t think it was possible

Arc and deceived are the only ones that tried to explain shit normally

I’m unwatching this come in pm’s if you want to talk

 

[Myxenete]

Where was it stated ?

"It will all lose shape and become one when faced with my power"

 

[Deceived3596]

Makai proving once again why NNT fans deserve to be bullied by me.

 

[Makai641001]

"It will all lose shape and become one when faced with my power"

Remember how boundaries are destroyed when faced with unbalance as shown during 90% of the TYBW arc to make these dimensions fuse he needs unbalance

A city lvl dude could basically do the same by destroying huge amounts of souls

It already is considered as ED

Makai proving once again why NNT fans deserve to be bullied by me.

When will you bully us using these upgrade threads you told us you’d make ?

 

[Deceived3596]

When will you bully us using these upgrade threads you told us you’d make ?

When i don't have multiple different projects which take precedence over NNT.

 

[Makai641001]

When i don't have multiple different projects which take precedence over NNT.

Okay thanks

 

[Makai641001]

Sorry I didn’t see 3-A to Low 2-C was thread banned mb y’all

 

[Myxenete]

Remember how boundaries are destroyed when faced with unbalance as shown during 90% of the TYBW arc to make these dimensions fuse he needs unbalance

A city lvl dude could basically do the same by destroying huge amounts of souls

It already is considered as ED

What about "my power' somehow makes you think Yhwach's plan here is to upset the balance of souls, actually this is directly contradicted as in the same chapter we see parts of the world of the living and soul soceity just straight up breaking apart and Yhwach's reiatsu emerging from the cracks signifying that he's forcefully ripping it apart himself

 

[OverlordDonnelly]

Kind of talking out loud here after having read the discussion in the last page or so, fair warning.

I know this argument of mine was ""debunked"" in the downgrade threads, but I still disagree with the argument used against me since they required a big leap in logic.

But this is the simplified version of how I see things regarding the realms:

If the realms were being pushed toward one another in the movie, and we clearly see day/night cycles and starry skies during the events of the movie, wouldn't that mean that the WotL's realm encompasses said sun, moon, and starry sky, since the realms are constantly on a collision course with one another?? If the sun, moon, and stars weren't part of the realm, then the Earth would have moved away from them and been moving through empty space at some point but obviously that's an error on the animator's part since the realms are planet sized clearly which isn't the case. So even if you lowballed the size of the realms, they should be like Multi-Solar System sized.

If I'm way off base, feel free to correct me.

 

[Makai641001]

What about "my power' somehow makes you think Yhwach's plan here is to upset the balance of souls, actually this is directly contradicted as in the same chapter we see parts of the world of the living and soul soceity just straight up breaking apart and Yhwach's reiatsu emerging from the cracks signifying that he's forcefully ripping it apart himself

This topic is thread banned cuz it was apparently discussed too much and they agreed about Yhwatch not destroying the universe through physicals

 

[Luziifero]

The statement is backed up in all sources.
The author takes precendence on you
Databook states it links planets
Urahara does too
Manga explicitely say Dangai is the boundary between both worlds
Just talking about CFYOW and assuming something doesn’t invalidate at all the fact that said thing is repeated in every canon source

Dangai is the boundary that links the planets of SS and LW if you have explicit statements saying they are the dimensions not the planets then send it please

It’s a kind of country ye

Karakura town popped in the sky of seireitei cuz both planets were attracted due to the imbalance

It’s been like 4 times that y’all say this but you could just you know actually read what is written on the panels I send cause I’ve sent many back ups

Also you told me you had explicit statements about SS being the dimension

Only thing you said that was correct was " the author takes precedence"



The world of the living houses a universe The soul society is referred to as the other side of the same coin as the world of the living confirming they're the same in size.





"Dangai is the boundary that links the planets of SS and LW if you have explicit statements saying they are the dimensions not the planets then send it please"

This is just straight up completely wrong. Dangai isn't the BOUNDARIES that separate the realms it's the garganta which fills in the empty spaces between the realms.

 

[Makai641001]

Only thing you said that was correct was " the author takes precedence"



The world of the living houses a universe The soul society is referred to as the other side of the same coin as the world of the living confirming they're the same in size.

The soul society is the planet not the universe
As stated by CFYOW Urahara Toshiro the databook and in the manga when talking about the boundaries

It was agreed in the exact same thread ban btw

The soul society is parallel to earth it’s a kind of mirror

The souls that gather in SS live on the planet that is the coexisting spiritual world in question

Now if you don’t mind I would like to avoid getting banned due to some thread rules

 

[Luziifero]

The soul society is the planet not the universe
As stated by CFYOW Urahara Toshiro the databook and in the manga when talking about the boundaries

It was agreed in the exact same thread ban btw

The soul society is parallel to earth it’s a kind of mirror

The souls that gather in SS live on the planet that is the coexisting spiritual world in question

Now if you don’t mind I would like to avoid getting banned due to some thread rules

cfyow LITERALLY says they aren't planets though??? the soul society and the world of the living are dimensions.



You don't get banned for speaking on banned crt topics what are you talking about?

 

[Luziifero]

The soul society is the planet not the universe
As stated by CFYOW Urahara Toshiro the databook and in the manga when talking about the boundaries

It was agreed in the exact same thread ban btw

The soul society is parallel to earth it’s a kind of mirror

The souls that gather in SS live on the planet that is the coexisting spiritual world in question

Now if you don’t mind I would like to avoid getting banned due to some thread rules

like arc literally got rid of the discussion rule too so what are you even talking about?

https://vsbattles.com/threads/removal-of-a-bleach-discussion-rule.142926/

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Now if you don’t mind I would like to avoid getting banned due to some thread rules

Hmm, seems like a concession.