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BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

Ichibe could seal Yama's Bankai and prevent Yhwach from using it, but SK fragment Iko could break out of Ichibe's seal because he gained enough power, CFYOW ShiKen one shot that Iko. So, I mean, things ain't looking so hot for Bankai Yama if he were to throw down with CFYOW Kenpachi.

or if for some reason you just can't believe CFYOW Kenpachi has direct scaling above Bankai Yama,

Bankai Yama > Shikai Yama < base Yhwach < Ichibe < Res Hikone ~ base CFYOW Kenpachi < CFYOW ShiKen < CFYOW BanKen

CFYOW Kenny also has better scaling chains regardless.

Is it that hard to believe the Kenpachi at his max potential and full power would be the strongest Shinigami to live?
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
SK fragment Iko could break out of Ichibe's seal because he gained enough power, CFYOW ShiKen one shot that Iko.
Click to expand...
When did he broke out of ichibe seal. Weakened* not broke out also he couldn't even remember his true name. Kenpachi being above every living captains ain't the problem. But thing is Ikko in his prime > Ikko in CFYOW.
Prime Ikko got sealed by Ichibe power and he never Fully broke out of it.

Banaki kenpachi > shinken > CFYOW Ikko < prime Ikko ~ young Yama < TYBW Yama ~ < yhwach < amped yhwach ~< Ichibe.
 
Nightmare_Bloodfallen said:
When did he broke out of ichibe seal. Weakened* not broke out also he couldn't even remember his true name.
Click to expand...
You might wanna reread the fight cuz Ikko was about to say his True Name if not for Kenny killing him.
Nightmare_Bloodfallen said:
Kenpachi being above every living captains ain't the problem. But thing is Ikko in his prime > Ikko in CFYOW.
Click to expand...
Based on? Ikko pre sealing says he is relative to VL Barragan while Novel Ikko scales far above R1 Barragan.
Nightmare_Bloodfallen said:
Prime Ikko got sealed by Ichibe power and he never Fully broke out of it.
Click to expand...
But he did.
Nightmare_Bloodfallen said:
Banaki kenpachi > shinken > CFYOW Ikko < prime Ikko ~ young Yama < TYBW Yama ~ < yhwach < amped yhwach ~< Ichibe.
Click to expand...
Weird thing to say when Ikko points out how eating the SK fragment gave him bullshit levels of power.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
You might wanna reread the fight cuz Ikko was about to say his True Name if not for Kenny killing him.
Click to expand...
Again weakened doesn't means he completely broke out of ichibe seal. Beside he couldn't say his true name. The point doesn't change as Prime Ikko > CFYOW Ikko ( still not regained his full power as seal only gotten weakened).
 


It's clearly states Weakened not broke out.

Even if you argue CFYOW ikko got his full power back.

Then CFYOW ikko ~ prime Ikko ~ young Yama
 
Yama is overrated. Shikai yamas flames got negged by base bazz B. He went bankai on a none elite sternritter (Royd) to make matters worse royd didn't even use his holy form lmao. Realistically i would say he's above all the sternritters in raw power besides gremmy ,Gerard,hashwalth and uryu. But if he was to fight someone like lille or askin they would neg him with hax.

Top 12 in bleach based on raw power.

1.Prime Soul King
2. Bankai HoS ichigo
3.Yhwach (SK)
4. Aizen
5. Gerard
6. Kepachi
7.ichibei
8.Prime ikimodomi
9.Gremmy
10. Hikone
11.yama

For People arguing that kenpachi got significantly stronger in the cfyow novels this actually incorrect. When kenpachi one shot ikimodomi in shikai they said he used the same amount force he used to smash a meteor. This is a clear indication he's relative to the same level he was in the blood war. Which is where he also smashed a meteor.

Gremmy freaked everyone out with his meteor. Hash even thought it was threat to base yhwach and himself. Same hashwalth one shot FB ichigo who blocked attacks from yhwach even burned him.
 
Iko resisting the seal and weaken it enough to be able to say his name using sheer force should mean that Iko is relative to Ichibe, when you have a higher Reiatsu you will neg the ability completely according to Aizen, Iko couldn't remove it completely but weakened it enough meaning he is relative in power to Ichibe.
Prime Iko was sealed by Ichibe~> Ichibe >> Prime Iko, soul king fragment weakened the seal enough~> That Iko ~ Ichibe.
Unless you can prove that Iko could break out or weaken the seal in his prime, you cant say that Prime Iko > CFYOW Iko.

But tbf, CFYOW says: "He tried to scale the skies in an attempt to consume the Reio, but as a result of the battle with Soul Reapers such as Shigekuni Yamamoto, who was still a youthful hero at the time, he was defeated at the hands of the Manako Osho and Oh-Etsu Nimaiya."

You can use that to say that he was weakened from his fight with Yamamoto, and thus you can answer the 1st question which is "he couldnt break from the seal in the past, but now he could with the additional power from the fragment"

However, Iko with his new power after eating the fragment believed that he could take down the zero division, such a feat wouldn't have been possible for him if he was still at the same level as before, so you will have another question which is, if Iko believed that now he could do that, that means he believe he has gained a level which is higher than his Prime state, no?
 
0 evidences Zaraki got stronger between TYBW and CFYOW. And Zaraki attitude has always been to never train if not against a strong enemy. So TYBW Zaraki ~ CFYOW Zaraki
 
Nightmare_Bloodfallen said:


It's clearly states Weakened not broke out.

Even if you argue CFYOW ikko got his full power back.

Then CFYOW ikko ~ prime Ikko ~ young Yama
Click to expand...

You aren’t even reading your own scan. It says that he regained his True Name by gaining a shit ton of power to weaken the naming hax. This doesn’t mean he is relative to pre sealing but he is stronger than that as pre sealed Ikko couldn’t break out of the naming hax while fragment Ikko was via his newfound strength. Him being so much stronger that he could start rejecting Ichibe’s naming hax via strength means he is far stronger than Ichibe.
Nightmare_Bloodfallen said:
0 evidences Zaraki got stronger between TYBW and CFYOW. And Zaraki attitude has always been to never train if not against a strong enemy. So TYBW Zaraki ~ CFYOW Zaraki
Click to expand...
Except for the fact that he is verbatim stated to be the strongest Shinigami in CFYOW whereas he very clearly wasn’t in TYBW, and other people who were as strong or stronger than him in TYBW like Byakuya and Toshiro aren’t even considered to pull out an unlikely dub against Hikone while base Kenny was handling the kid no diff. Even guys who were stronger than Kenny in TYBW like Kisuke can only beat Hikone because of prep. Everyone that could even step to Hikone were all giga brained chads or god tiers. None of the Gotei besides Mayuri and Kenny could do anything, no mention of Zero Squad etc but you want to argue that Kenny didn’t get stronger despite him grievous wounds at the end of TYBW and souls getting Zenkais when they face adversity?

You have to be biased against Kenpachi or smth cuz Narita spent a whole novel making it pretty clear that Kenny is the new top dog among pure Shinigami.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
You have to be biased against Kenpachi or smth cuz Narita spent a whole novel making it pretty clear that Kenny is the new top dog among pure Shinigami.
Click to expand...

Technically by your logic I can see you are the one biased towards Kenpachi and yama isn't even my favourite character in Bleach.

Its pretty funny when TYBW Yama > young who fought ikko. You can assert ikko gotten weaker after fighting Yama and Ichibē sealed him. Also TYBW Ichibē > TYBW Yama > prime Ikko and it's nowhere stated he got huge power up on infinite level. Kenpachi still looses to likes of Yama and Ichibē.

Also just so ikko stated he can take revenge on zero squad doesn't make him above them as he is potraiyed more of an Idiot as stated
"He tried to scale the skies in an attempt to consume the Reio, but as a result of the battle with Soul Reapers such as Shigekuni Yamamoto, who was still a youthful hero at the time, he was defeated at the hands of the Manako Osho and Oh-Etsu Nimaiya."

Fun fact the old stories doesn't matter as Ikko has zero idea on the current level of zero squad and Ichibē seal weakening doesn't make he completely broke out of it. As it's stated he couldn't say out his name. The seal was still on ikko. Kenpachi beat down the ikko who still not completely broke the Ichibē seal.
 


Do we take every statement as truth?

The only right scaling chain via statements spefic and not subject of interpretation about preferring favourite Zaraki is:

Bankai Yama > Shikai Yama >>>>>> Shikai Tokinada ~ CFYOW Byakuya ~ TYBW Byakuya ~ Adult Toshiro > Third Form Gerard >>> TYBW Bankai Zaraki > CFYOW Shikai Zaraki ~ TYBW Shikai Zaraki.


"Seemed", "apparently", "weakened =/= broke". All are different 🚶‍♂️
 
I very much doubt Ichibei is included in whatever “strongest” statement regarding the normal cast. Squad Zero is never included. Even statements like regarding who can beat Hikone they don't mention Ichibei.
 
Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye said:
I very much doubt Ichibei is included in whatever “strongest” statement regarding the normal cast. Squad Zero is never included. Even statements like regarding who can beat Hikone they don't mention Ichibei.
Click to expand...

In Manga you can easily see feats that puts Ichibē above Yhwach and Yama. Also Yama in novels stated to be stronger than Byakuya. Shunsui explanation shows how much of an difference between them. I agree Kenpachi being the current strongest Gotei 13 character. But I don't see how he surpassed Yama and Ichibē.
 
Kubo didn't want the new captain general to get spitted on, destroyed at the beginning of the 2nd round so he didn't make Haschwalth use his B there
 
Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye said:
I very much doubt Ichibei is included in whatever “strongest” statement regarding the normal cast. Squad Zero is never included. Even statements like regarding who can beat Hikone they don't mention Ichibei.
Click to expand...
It's from hisagi's perspective. He never seen ichibies power. They also didn't mention yhwach or prime soul king.
 
The strongest statement isn’t from Hisagi’s perspective, it’s from the omniscient narrator’s. It’s how character descriptions work.
 
Shouldn't yhwach and sk have phenomena intervention type 1

vsbattles.fandom.com

Phenomena Intervention

Phenomena Intervention, also known as Observation is an ability that is used by various characters and a major plot device in BlazBlue series. An ability called Power of God, in the most basic terms, it is an ability to change whatever event a user by picking different outcomes from infinite...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
Reio35 said:
Shouldn't yhwach and sk have phenomena intervention type 1

vsbattles.fandom.com

Phenomena Intervention

Phenomena Intervention, also known as Observation is an ability that is used by various characters and a major plot device in BlazBlue series. An ability called Power of God, in the most basic terms, it is an ability to change whatever event a user by picking different outcomes from infinite...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Click to expand...
That... Isn't an abilities page for anyone to use my guy.

It's a page for Blazblue characters only.
 
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