BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

[CalmHill]

Gulp.

Raw source for the bold quote?

じこくようそう地獄は、様相の異なる幾つかいそうたじゃうせかいの階層からなる。多重世界。。ちこ一護たちはこの地で、どんな戦いを繰り広げていくのか !?

Hell is a hierarchy of several realms with different aspects. A multiverse. What kind of battle will Ichigo and his friends wage in this land!?

I don’t have Cfyow I just have the 2 translations. The one from Viz which I posted and this one. “the ancestor of the opposing clan said it was necessary to have a world that would serve as a lid for the pit that would later be known as Hell.”

Cfyow III-page 198,” Curiously, their different motives led them to the same goal: to separate the current world. There would be a reishi world, a kishi world, and also a sand paradise that would be the destination of the Hollows both worlds produced. Or, alternatively, other forms of worlds might come to being, but what was most important was to have worlds with a clear distinction between life and death.”
I think the other form of worlds is obviously hell, the valley of scream, other ss branches, etc

 

[Creed100]

Not based on our profiles, BanKen is High 6-A, TS Ichigo is 3-B

that which escapes the reality of the work..

it's a yhwach error having universal resistance

the same as saying that orihime is universal for holding the cloak..

base yamma almost died from holding damage from her shikai, which would destroy an area larger than karakura..
He goes too far from supporting the total power of his bankai .. the same goes for many

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

What's your argument for banken = ichigo, because your argument sounds like its coming from disbelief.

 

[Khaostichny]

that which escapes the reality of the work..

it's a yhwach error having universal resistance

the same as saying that orihime is universal for holding the cloak..

base yamma almost died from holding damage from her shikai, which would destroy an area larger than karakura..
He goes too far from supporting the total power of his bankai .. the same goes for many

Yama almost died against he flame of his shikai compressed and released at once, following the logic the AP of that blow was several times higher than the conventional base AP of the Yama Shikai.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

that which escapes the reality of the work..

it's a yhwach error having universal resistance

the same as saying that orihime is universal for holding the cloak..

base yamma almost died from holding damage from her shikai, which would destroy an area larger than karakura..
He goes too far from supporting the total power of his bankai .. the same goes for many

all of this is just argument from disbelief, "i dont think xyz, therefore it is not"

expecially when we know that when u have to much power to the point ur dura is trash, u literaly can die from it

for YH to not die from his own power his durability must be similar to his AP

orihime is not universal, her shields are, u know? the shields that are based on her emotions and state of mind

 

[AppleLord]

じこくようそう地獄は、様相の異なる幾つかいそうたじゃうせかいの階層からなる。多重世界。。ちこ一護たちはこの地で、どんな戦いを繰り広げていくのか !?

Hell is a hierarchy of several realms with different aspects. A multiverse. What kind of battle will Ichigo and his friends wage in this land!?

I don’t have Cfyow I just have the 2 translations. The one from Viz which I posted and this one. “the ancestor of the opposing clan said it was necessary to have a world that would serve as a lid for the pit that would later be known as Hell.”

Cfyow III-page 198,” Curiously, their different motives led them to the same goal: to separate the current world. There would be a reishi world, a kishi world, and also a sand paradise that would be the destination of the Hollows both worlds produced. Or, alternatively, other forms of worlds might come to being, but what was most important was to have worlds with a clear distinction between life and death.”
I think the other form of worlds is obviously hell, the valley of scream, other ss branches, etc

Do you have the raw scan for this "じこくようそう地獄は、様相の異なる幾つかいそうたじゃうせかいの階層からなる。多重世界。。ちこ一護たちはこの地で、どんな戦いを繰り広げていくのか !?"

 

[CalmHill]

Do you have the raw scan for this "じこくようそう地獄は、様相の異なる幾つかいそうたじゃうせかいの階層からなる。多重世界。。ちこ一護たちはこの地で、どんな戦いを繰り広げていくのか !?"

 

[Naeblis495]

base yamma almost died from holding damage from her shikai, which would destroy an area larger than karakura..
He goes too far from supporting the total power of his bankai .. the same goes for many

Aoe fallacy.

Aizen stated that yama and himself are relative in power. In fact, Aizen stated that yama is most likely more powerfull than him and took precautions by creating wonderweiss ,to be sure to beat yama.

Aizen is stated to be much stronger than all the espada, meaning that base/shikai yama already scale above any espada's feat by default.
And the top espada have feats much higher than town level. Like several hundreds of billions of time higher than town level.

 

[Kingcrim212]

Lmao are you guys really entertaining this right now?

 

[AppleLord]

Aizen been stronger than Shikai Yamamoto is laughable.

 

[Shadyboi0]

Aizen been stronger than Shikai Yamamoto is laughable.

which one?

 

[AppleLord]

which one?

To my knowledge Aizen has not clone himself.

 

[Tyri456]

I want just to point out that Yhwach was not capable to put a single crack in each of orihime Shiled even when he get somehow serious, and one of his attack had even the killing intent against Ichigo, since he literally scream ”now Die” before launching the attack. Yes, Orihime is strong.

 

[CalmHill]

For orihime let's not forget she's farther away from them so she's moving faster to be able to block these hits, orihime also able to neg almighty when she can interact with the hax? Orihime top 3 in the verse

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

For orihime let's not forget she's farther away from them so she's moving faster to be able to block these hits, orihime also able to neg almighty when she can interact with the hax? Orihime top 3 in the verse

She never counter the almighty, just the physical attacks of Yhwach

 

[CalmHill]

she most defiantly did when she was able to repair zangetsu, the way in which ichigos sword broke was by effect of the almighty and its Maintenace of remaining broken by it as well. She was unable to reject it before because she could not interact with the ability. Only being able to reject at the present not the future, however once a past for it was changed so she could she was able to negate it. Rukia directly says it, chapter 681, " so your power to reject cant fix something thats been broken in the future". Later by tsukishima followed up by, "Even if your futures been rewritten with a tremendous power that cant be rejected by your ability as long as there's a different past you should be able to reject up to that point". The problem was nature not power and when that nature was solved, she negated it, yhwach confirms in chapter 682, "I saw it you two coming here. That sword back to how it was." def had its effects negated

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

じこくようそう地獄は、様相の異なる幾つかいそうたじゃうせかいの階層からなる。多重世界。。ちこ一護たちはこの地で、どんな戦いを繰り広げていくのか !?

Hell is a hierarchy of several realms with different aspects. A multiverse. What kind of battle will Ichigo and his friends wage in this land!?

I don’t have Cfyow I just have the 2 translations. The one from Viz which I posted and this one. “the ancestor of the opposing clan said it was necessary to have a world that would serve as a lid for the pit that would later be known as Hell.”

Cfyow III-page 198,” Curiously, their different motives led them to the same goal: to separate the current world. There would be a reishi world, a kishi world, and also a sand paradise that would be the destination of the Hollows both worlds produced. Or, alternatively, other forms of worlds might come to being, but what was most important was to have worlds with a clear distinction between life and death.”
I think the other form of worlds is obviously hell, the valley of scream, other ss branches, etc

I am really excited for next hell chapter.

 

[Creed100]

It does apply though? People need to be strong enough to survive their own stuff. We see this at the start of the series and at the end of the series. He definitely didn’t forget.

barragan does not survive its power... Yamma does not survive its power.. Shinji does not survive its power... Soi Fong does not survive its power

Yama almost died against he flame of his shikai compressed and released at once, following the logic the AP of that blow was several times higher than the conventional base AP of the Yama Shikai.

In short, he almost died from the flame of his shikai... SHIKAI..

Shikai in power is much lower than his bankai..

And according to aizen's words, his shikai would destroy an area larger than karakura

all of this is just argument from disbelief, "i dont think xyz, therefore it is not"

expecially when we know that when u have to much power to the point ur dura is trash, u literaly can die from it

for YH to not die from his own power his durability must be similar to his AP

orihime is not universal, her shields are, u know? the shields that are based on her emotions and state of mind

That depends..


Ichigo in bankai form took damage from grimjow thorns.. And the thorns are far inferior to the gran rey cero..


And no... Orihime is not universal... Orihime does not have universal energy... This is the author's error, or else the yhwach did not launch a powerful blow, as it was just a small piece of his cloak.


Don't forget... Yhwach would destroy the 3 worlds, and for that he expanded his cloak to cover everything

my question:

Did his attacks use the full power of the black cloak? I do not think so

Aoe fallacy.

Aizen stated that yama and himself are relative in power. In fact, Aizen stated that yama is most likely more powerfull than him and took precautions by creating wonderweiss ,to be sure to beat yama.

Aizen is stated to be much stronger than all the espada, meaning that base/shikai yama already scale above any espada's feat by default.
And the top espada have feats much higher than town level. Like several hundreds of billions of time higher than town level.

Hundreds of billions is fallacy

What's your argument for banken = ichigo, because your argument sounds like its coming from disbelief.

I did not understand

 

[Creed100]

@Arc7Kuroi

I have a doubt..

A fight between ichibei vs hashirama..


What would happen if the ink from the ichibei came in contact with the wood of the hashirama?


would it lose its name and he would forget about the wood, not being able to use it?

 

[AnonymousBlank]

barragan does not survive its power... Yamma does not survive its power.. Shinji does not survive its power... Soi Fong does not survive its power

Barragan died to his own hax, not his AP. Yama was blatantly surviving his Bankai’s usage or do you have scans of Yama being severely wounded by his Bankai? What does Shinji have to even survive? He can use any and all AP stuff without issue and his Zanpakuto is purely hax. Soifon blatantly has to where special gear to even use her Bankai, can’t handle the recoil, is stated to only be able to fire it once per 3 days etc etc. Kubo makes it obvious af that she isn’t as durable as her Bankai. Another thing that ***** your comparison is that hers is different from other Bankai in that she doesn’t actually have to do or suffer anything besides the recoil (which she can’t handle anyway) unlike Ichigo’s Bankai literally pressing down on his body all of the time or Kenpachi’s which is just being ooga booga strong and his strength destroying his body.

In short, he almost died from the flame of his shikai... SHIKAI..

You need to start ignoring the fact that it’s his Shikai and start acknowledging the fact that he spent the entire ******* duration of FKT charging that attack which he intended to be a suicide move for both himself and Aizen, gets hit by it point blank and then suppresses it all and is still alive to do any damage to Aizen.

Shikai in power is much lower than his bankai..

Much reasoning, such wow.

And according to aizen's words, his shikai would destroy an area larger than karakura

And? A country is larger than Karakura so what’s the issue with saying Yama’s Shikai is able to anything we are arguing?

That depends..

Depends on whether you are being objective, something you are not.

Ichigo in bankai form took damage from grimjow thorns.. And the thorns are far inferior to the gran rey cero..

Now you are just ignoring context. Those thorns are from a Resurrected Grimm while the GRC is from a base Grimm. Rez Grimm can scrap with Masked Bankai Ichigo which literally swatted base Grimm’s GRC out of the air. Anything Rez Grimm does is superior to his base GRC.

And no... Orihime is not universal... Orihime does not have universal energy... This is the author's error, or else the yhwach did not launch a powerful blow, as it was just a small piece of his cloak.

You aren’t reading what people type, are you? He said she isn’t universal but that her shields are. Yhwach was literally saying he would kill Ichigo, got stopped by Santen Kesshun, and then used the Almighty to get around the shield. If he was able to do it with AP, he could have just pressed a bit harder and shattered it. Context tells us that Orihime mega universal attacks.

Author’s error

You can’t be serious. Just because you disagree with something doesn’t mean the author made a mistake. I guess if someone doesn’t like NaruHina, Kishimoto just ****** up and accidentally made that pairing canon. That ain’t how it works.

Don't forget... Yhwach would destroy the 3 worlds, and for that he expanded his cloak to cover everything

my question:

Did his attacks use the full power of the black cloak? I do not think so

An opinion and one that has no place in the conversation.

Hundreds of billions is fallacy

You have no clue what a fallacy is, do you?

I did not understand

Big surprise.

 

[Creed100]

Barragan died to his own hax, not his AP. Yama was blatantly surviving his Bankai’s usage or do you have scans of Yama being severely wounded by his Bankai? What does Shinji have to even survive? He can use any and all AP stuff without issue and his Zanpakuto is purely hax. Soifon blatantly has to where special gear to even use her Bankai, can’t handle the recoil, is stated to only be able to fire it once per 3 days etc etc. Kubo makes it obvious af that she isn’t as durable as her Bankai. Another thing that ***** your comparison is that hers is different from other Bankai in that she doesn’t actually have to do or suffer anything besides the recoil (which she can’t handle anyway) unlike Ichigo’s Bankai literally pressing down on his body all of the time or Kenpachi’s which is just being ooga booga strong and his strength destroying his body.

You need to start ignoring the fact that it’s his Shikai and start acknowledging the fact that he spent the entire ******* duration of FKT charging that attack which he intended to be a suicide move for both himself and Aizen, gets hit by it point blank and then suppresses it all and is still alive to do any damage to Aizen.

Much reasoning, such wow.

And? A country is larger than Karakura so what’s the issue with saying Yama’s Shikai is able to anything we are arguing?

Depends on whether you are being objective, something you are not.

Now you are just ignoring context. Those thorns are from a Resurrected Grimm while the GRC is from a base Grimm. Rez Grimm can scrap with Masked Bankai Ichigo which literally swatted base Grimm’s GRC out of the air. Anything Rez Grimm does is superior to his base GRC.

You aren’t reading what people type, are you? He said she isn’t universal but that her shields are. Yhwach was literally saying he would kill Ichigo, got stopped by Santen Kesshun, and then used the Almighty to get around the shield. If he was able to do it with AP, he could have just pressed a bit harder and shattered it. Context tells us that Orihime mega universal attacks.



You can’t be serious. Just because you disagree with something doesn’t mean the author made a mistake. I guess if someone doesn’t like NaruHina, Kishimoto just ****** up and accidentally made that pairing canon. That ain’t how it works.

An opinion and one that has no place in the conversation.

You have no clue what a fallacy is, do you?

Big surprise.

No need to be mad, I'm just arguing

1-) I'll sum up, do you have any bleaching feats with calculation in relation to any character that survived this hit?

Because if you don't have it, it will come down to PS or guesswork

2-) There's nothing to ignore, it was your shikai's flames and that's it

3-) I read yes, and the shield is not universal ..

For you to prove to me that the shield is universal, you have to prove to me that the energy that touched the shield was universal, that is,

you have to show me that yhwach used the same energy that would unify the 3 worlds, which is not the case, as he needed time for that

Big surprise.

Yes, I didn't understand. I'm very limited in the language

 

[Tyri456]

better to stop, this is just no sense at this point.

 

[AppleLord]

@Creed100 go read Bleach.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

That depends..


Ichigo in bankai form took damage from grimjow thorns.. And the thorns are far inferior to the gran rey cero..


And no... Orihime is not universal... Orihime does not have universal energy... This is the author's error, or else the yhwach did not launch a powerful blow, as it was just a small piece of his cloak.


Don't forget... Yhwach would destroy the 3 worlds, and for that he expanded his cloak to cover everything

my question:

Did his attacks use the full power of the black cloak? I do not think so

the Gran rey cero was fired in base and the torn on resurrection which is a similar increase in power as a bankai


again, orihime herself is not universal, the only thing universal about her are the shields she can create which have been shown multiple times to tank attacks from Yhwach


him having to expand his cloak to cover the cosmology is nothing but range mate


again, argument from disbelief

 

[AnonymousBlank]

No need to be mad, I'm just arguing

Whose mad?

1-) I'll sum up, do you have any bleaching feats with calculation in relation to any character that survived this hit?

Survived what hit?

Because if you don't have it, it will come down to PS or guesswork

2-) There's nothing to ignore, it was your shikai's flames and that's it

Yes there is. You keep focusing on a detail that doesn’t matter. Regardless of whether it’s his Shikai’s flames, it was an attack that he spent half an hour charging that was intended to kill him. And then he didn’t. This means he can survive stuff far stronger than his standard attacks.

3-) I read yes, and the shield is not universal ..

For you to prove to me that the shield is universal, you have to prove to me that the energy that touched the shield was universal, that is,

I don’t need to prove shit to you? You already got told how it’s universal, you just refuse to accept it.

you have to show me that yhwach used the same energy that would unify the 3 worlds, which is not the case, as he needed time for that.

He was trying to kill Ichigo with the same black energy he was using to destroy the realms, an Ichigo whom he blatantly said he has to take seriously. That means he is swinging with said universal energy that he can output passively.

Yes, I didn't understand. I'm very limited in the language

Very limited in Bleach too.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

 

[Creed100]

@Creed100 go read Bleach.

I read the work... I'm here to give my opinion and learn too

the Gran rey cero was fired in base and the torn on resurrection which is a similar increase in power as a bankai


again, orihime herself is not universal, the only thing universal about her are the shields she can create which have been shown multiple times to tank attacks from Yhwach


him having to expand his cloak to cover the cosmology is nothing but range mate


again, argument from disbelief

I said I don't agree with her shield being universal, I think that's illogical in the work ..

It is the same as saying that bulma resists the punch of the berus -> DB

or mumem rider takes the punch of the sea god -> one punch man


You say expand the mantle? But what if the expansion is an accumulation of more power, or preparation time?

Very limited in Bleach too.

forgive my limitation then =)

Would you know how to answer me?

A fight between ichibei vs hashirama..


What would happen if the ink from the ichibei came in contact with the wood of the hashirama?


would it lose its name and he would forget about the wood, not being able to use it?

 

[YukaSama4]

relax

 

[AnonymousBlank]

I read the work... I'm here to give my opinion and learn too


I said I don't agree with her shield being universal, I think that's illogical in the work ..

It is the same as saying that bulma resists the punch of the berus -> DB

or mumem rider takes the punch of the sea god -> one punch man


You say expand the mantle? But what if the expansion is an accumulation of more power, or preparation time?

forgive my limitation then =)

Would you know how to answer me?

A fight between ichibei vs hashirama..


What would happen if the ink from the ichibei came in contact with the wood of the hashirama?


would it lose its name and he would forget about the wood, not being able to use it?

Wood should just get nulled. Hashirama would still be able to summon and use wood that hasn’t been inked though unless he gets tagged by the ink.

 

[AppleLord]

I read the work... I'm here to give my opinion and learn too

Read it slowly.

 

[AppleLord]

I said I don't agree with her shield being universal, I think that's illogical in the work ..

Opinions are not an argument.

It is the same as saying that bulma resists the punch of the berus -> DB

Orihime would slap Bulma the same.

or mumem rider takes the punch of the sea god -> one punch man

Mumem doesn't have magical energy or consistent training and feats.

What would happen if the ink from the ichibei came in contact with the wood of the hashirama?

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

I said I don't agree with her shield being universal, I think that's illogical in the work ..

It is the same as saying that bulma resists the punch of the berus -> DB

or mumem rider takes the punch of the sea god -> one punch man


You say expand the mantle? But what if the expansion is an accumulation of more power, or preparation time?

U not agreeing with what is shown on the manga multiple times will not magically make it disappear

Difference being beerus was not looking to kill bulma, meanwhile YH was trying to kill ichigo with his attacks that then got blocked by orihime

That not stated on anywhere on the manga so a moot point u just made up to try and get around what I said

Expanding the mantle is just range, not more power

 

[YukaSama4]

Dont go hard on the new customer

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Y’all like piranhas

 

[AnonymousBlank]

And he shouldn’t have been like a side character jumping into the water but here we are lol

 

[AppleLord]

 

[Naeblis495]

Creed100 seems to be confused on how scaling even work and seem to rely entirely on visual feats and gut feeling. "Yama would only destroy a multi town area, so he can't be stronger than town lvl+" , ignoring all the previous scaling,statements and calculations.

 

[Creed100]

I'm not rsrs..

Yama picks up PS of multi-character resistance..

I try to be as neutral as possible based on my knowledge (limited) rsrs

That's not knowing : The worst for me was to read in a forum that the power of ichibei only works in the bleach universe, due to the particularities of removing the power of the "name", and only the "name" of the bleach has power ... .

It's every nonsense

 

[YukaSama4]

Whats this "rsrs"

 

[CalmHill]

I am really excited for next hell chapter.

So am I, I think the arc has so much potential with a non-worked and exhausted author. Especially since I hope kubos been thinking about this since the end of bleach. We had an arc for every other main/original realm but not Hell, only a movie. And Kubo wanted to do more, after that 1st chapter Ik its goanna be wild X.X