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BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

1) You can say that it's an outlier.
2) You can say that no one scales to that feat of Gremmy as his tier varies depending on what he imagined.
3) You can say they all scale to him and make that uni scaling chain.
I choose the second option tbh
About Gremmy I don't usually scale him to other characters. But Yhwach does get power boost when some stern dies in wars. Gremmy had Cultivated waste amount of power. Even he is stated in novel as strongest stern. Only thing makes this feat outlier is its bleach character feat that's all. If any other verses does same thing People won't even ask questions and scale character to this feat.
 
Disagree, it's stated that Yhwach was going to achieve his goal using his power, not a manipulation technique

Wrong, Ichigo stomps Zaraki which is shown by feats, Ichigo fought Yhwach one on one and Yhwach feared his power and said that making any mistake might cause him serious trouble and since you said this:

So yeah Ichigo is far above Zaraki and Gerard

Nothing in the series says that Ichigo can't be at this level.

Relax, its not difficult
1-) I understand

2-) Problem that ichigo did nothing to yhwach... yhwach humiliated ichigo

3-) I still see ichigo and zaraki not far away.. Not least because the work always showed them as rivals

OBS:

If I'm not mistaken byakuya says that gerard was at the level of yhwach + SK in the sleeve

4-) So maybe this power isn't used as an attack
 
SK splitted primordial world and created two different space time continuum.
No. He split the primordial world into the different realms with the exception of the Dangai and Hell. The primordial universe was already a time space and he split the contents of it into separate dimensions. The Dangai is an entirely new time space that he had to make and proceeded to place between SS and WotL to keep them separate.
You understand what Dangai does right. Also how can there be single timeline exist when both realms timelines are separated by Dangai.
Spatially separated by the Dangai. Hell, the Isshin statement says that the Dangai is cut off from the space and time of SS and WotL. That means that they share the same time space, something that is backed up up by the Ryoka invasion of SS where the Cleaner kicked them into last week and when they got back to Karakura, it was the same day they left SS even though your reasoning would make it so that they arrived a week sooner or a week later than they did. Why on Earth do you think that in Memories of Nobody, the 1 hour countdown applied to both the SS and WotL? Why did Renji say he spent the last 17 months training to fight Aizen tiers? Why did the Winter War arrive six months after SS? If it’s a different timeline, why do the timeframes for literally every thing match up perfectly?
Also what's your proof for having only one timeline in bleach.
I literally didn’t say this. Are you illiterate or just wilfully ignorant? I blatantly said that there are two timeline in Bleach.
When Ichigo team thrown back to past it was past of soul society not human World timeline.
Read above where I explained how he came back to WotL on the same day he left SS. The very fact that he got yeeted into last week means that the events that take place after would have a discrepancy in the lot occurrence. Either they have different flows of time to make up for that extra week they got, which just so happens to throw off every other timeframe mentioned in the series, or they have the same flow of time, which contradicts them having that extra week which is plot point of the narrative. Either way, you are wrong.

How about instead of asking me to prove a negative, which I straight up did anyway, you actually prove they are separate timelines? Ya don’t got statements they are separate timelines, you don’t have feats or statements they have different flows of time etc etc.
 
2-) Problem that ichigo did nothing to yhwach... yhwach humiliated ichigo
huh?
Yhwach says he must always be on guard
Yhwach feared Ichigo’s Bankai
Ichigo one-shotting Yhwach
3-) I still see ichigo and zaraki not far away.. Not least because the work always showed them as rivals
Prove this, are you saying that Arrancar arc Zaraki is comparable to the final Getsuga Tenchou Ichigo?
Or Fullbring arc Zaraki is comparable to Fullbring Bankai Ichigo?
Both are wrong if you really believe in that.
If I'm not mistaken byakuya says that gerard was at the level of yhwach + SK in the sleeve

4-) So maybe this power isn't used as an attack
Byakuya never said that, prove it
 
2-) Problem that ichigo did nothing to yhwach... yhwach humiliated ichigo
Yhwach himself said that ichigo was a menace to him and didn't want to brawl with him, choosing to destroy him with hax instead.

The same Yhwach who as the Soul King was passivelly holding the whole bleach cosmos together with his mere reiatsu. Yhwach , without even fighting, release enough force to support and hold together multiple universe/infinite sized realms.

An even stronger Yhwach then get one shotted and killed by a half dead ichigo using merely his bankai +Getsuga Tenshou. Without The Almighty's broken fate hax , Ichigo would have destroyed Yhwach with his bankai+horn. Proven by the fact that Yhwach didn't wanted to have any buisness with his bankai wich he admitted himself.

You may have read Bleach, but i'm not sure you understood it if you claim that Yhwach is more powerfull than Ichigo.
edit :ninja'd by YukaSama4
 
Tbh I'm still not sure whether SS and WoTL share the same time-space, Yoruichi said that SS and WoTL are only connected by Dangai right?
I'm going to check this subject later when I finish my exams
 
Dangai did not exist before the split, neither did garganta

Only thing that existed before the SK was OG universe + hell

Dangai was not a thing till the separations
He is saying that Reio split the OG universe into 3 worlds, HM, WoTL, and SS, Dangai, and Hell aren't included in those 3 worlds, then he said:
The Dangai is an entirely new time space that he had to make and proceeded to place between SS and WotL to keep them separate.
So he isn't saying that Dangai was there from the start.
 
huh?
Yhwach says he must always be on guard
Yhwach feared Ichigo’s Bankai
Ichigo one-shotting Yhwach

Prove this, are you saying that Arrancar arc Zaraki is comparable to the final Getsuga Tenchou Ichigo?
Or Fullbring arc Zaraki is comparable to Fullbring Bankai Ichigo?
Both are wrong if you really believe in that.

Byakuya never said that, prove it
1-) yhwach defends easily

2-) Zaraki was also a potential war, and always proved to be one of the most reatsu in the work. Never seen much difference from ichigo and zaraki, although I find ichigo a little superior

3-) Gerard yhwach level
 
Screenshot-2021-11-11-170756


my protagonist is looking hella sus rn 👀
Is this Ichigo about the Hell Arc just been one chapter and everyone just dies in the end? Do we have to assume that too?
 
I'm not sure if we are using the same language because no one would call this "defend easily" when its literally cutting his body in half.
2-) Zaraki was also a potential war, and always proved to be one of the most reatsu in the work. Never seen much difference from ichigo and zaraki, although I find ichigo a little superior
Alright, so Kisuke, Ichibe, Ichigo, Aizen, Zaraki are all relative to each other and on the same level? nice.
Wrong translation, Byakuya said "he is already fighting Yhwach" in the official translation and its talking about Ichigo not Gerard
 
I'm not sure if we are using the same language because no one would call this "defend easily" when its literally cutting his body in half.

Alright, so Kisuke, Ichibe, Ichigo, Aizen, Zaraki are all relative to each other and on the same level? nice.

Wrong translation, Byakuya said "he is already fighting Yhwach" in the official translation and its talking about Ichigo not Gerard
my opinion :

reatsu :

aizen > ichigo /zaraki

ichibei find an unknown, since he controls the darkness of the whole world

Obs:

Do you have the official translation?

I am from Brazil and several translations in PT, and english translations I saw that was cited the last way gerard have the same level of yhwach
 
my opinion :

reatsu :

aizen > ichigo /zaraki

ichibei find an unknown, since he controls the darkness of the whole world
What do you mean? You said that since Zaraki was a war potential then he is comparable to Ichigo, this should apply to all war potential not only Zaraki.
Aizen ~ Ichigo ~ Zaraki ~ Kisuke ~ Ichibe, using your own argument.
Do you have the official translation?
use Mangalife or Mangasee they have the official translation
 
Hell and the Dangai are Tier 2 structures, Garganta contains them and is infinite in size, ergo, they are infinitely small facets of the Garganta so the Garganta is 5D gg.
 
Hell is directly connected to the world of the living which would put it in the Garganta. Its gates are in the world of the living, in hueco Mundo the gates don't appear but Sayzel is in hell. when the gates break it flows into the human world. Also, the soul king did create hell, what was said in the novels was that hell originally was a "pit". They desired a world for hell as a part of the plan to extend the flow of souls, CFYOW III page 197 viz, "Another clan's ancestor believed a lid was needed to cover the pit that would later become known as "hell." so I'm not sure why hell would randomly be somewhere else.

Also, I'm not sure why both hell verse and diamond dust rebellion wouldn't be taken as evidence, the part of hell verse I am referencing is Kubo while talking about hell and its design states it to be a multiverse " Hell is a "multiverse" consisting of several layers with different aspects. What kind of battle will Ichigo and his friends fight in this land?" I am unaware of diamond dust rebellion stating hell to have infinite dimensions but I am aware of Mayuri saying the Oken gives control over the infinite dimensions. Which would mean there's infinite dimensions in the Garganta.
 
Hell is directly connected to the world of the living which would put it in the Garganta. Its gates are in the world of the living, in hueco Mundo the gates don't appear but Sayzel is in hell. when the gates break it flows into the human world. Also, the soul king did create hell, what was said in the novels was that hell originally was a "pit". They desired a world for hell as a part of the plan to extend the flow of souls, CFYOW III page 197 viz, "Another clan's ancestor believed a lid was needed to cover the pit that would later become known as "hell." so I'm not sure why hell would randomly be somewhere else.

Also, I'm not sure why both hell verse and diamond dust rebellion wouldn't be taken as evidence, the part of hell verse I am referencing is Kubo while talking about hell and its design states it to be a multiverse " Hell is a "multiverse" consisting of several layers with different aspects. What kind of battle will Ichigo and his friends fight in this land?" I am unaware of diamond dust rebellion stating hell to have infinite dimensions but I am aware of Mayuri saying the Oken gives control over the infinite dimensions. Which would mean there's infinite dimensions in the Garganta.
that statement is not about SK created hell, is saying that the pit (hell) was simply seal up, not that the soul king created it
 
What do you mean? You said that since Zaraki was a war potential then he is comparable to Ichigo, this should apply to all war potential not only Zaraki.
Aizen ~ Ichigo ~ Zaraki ~ Kisuke ~ Ichibe, using your own argument.
I spoke more for the work treating zaraki and ichigo as having a lot of reatsu, and zaraki always looking for ichigo to fight.

I cited war potential just because both are also

But I could be pretty wrong too

use Mangalife or Mangasee they have the official translation

You're right, I apologize for the mistake
 
So Zaraki is comparable to the final Getsuga Tenchou Ichigo?
my opinion :

zaraki has always been a reatsu monster, and one of the most in the work


considering his war performance, and if he knows how to use all his power at bankai, i see him on a par with ichigo.


I haven't really seen much of ichigo, as I find it hard to assume that yhwach has universal endurance.. far from it..


At most I would say ichigo a little higher

But as I said, I could be quite wrong
 
Yhwach himself said that ichigo was a menace to him and didn't want to brawl with him, choosing to destroy him with hax instead.

The same Yhwach who as the Soul King was passivelly holding the whole bleach cosmos together with his mere reiatsu. Yhwach , without even fighting, release enough force to support and hold together multiple universe/infinite sized realms.

An even stronger Yhwach then get one shotted and killed by a half dead ichigo using merely his bankai +Getsuga Tenshou. Without The Almighty's broken fate hax , Ichigo would have destroyed Yhwach with his bankai+horn. Proven by the fact that Yhwach didn't wanted to have any buisness with his bankai wich he admitted himself.

You may have read Bleach, but i'm not sure you understood it if you claim that Yhwach is more powerfull than Ichigo.
edit :ninja'd by YukaSama4
Yhwach is more powerful than ichigo...

And yhwach doesn't have the same stamina as its attack level...

Ichigo killed him in the end because he didn't change his future
 
Yhwach is more powerful than ichigo...

And yhwach doesn't have the same stamina as its attack level...

Ichigo killed him in the end because he didn't change his future
No he isn't. If he was, he wouldn't be scarred of ichigo's bankai.

ok, this is becoming concerning , you think that bleach characthers don't have the same durability as their attack potency ? there is a lot of work to do.

Ichigo killed him twice. The first one, Yhwach was in full possesion of his powers and still got one shotted and died. Yhwach himself say that he died from Ichigo's getsuga tenshou.
 
No he isn't. If he was, he wouldn't be scarred of ichigo's bankai.

ok, this is becoming concerning , you think that bleach characthers don't have the same durability as their attack potency ? there is a lot of work to do.

Ichigo killed him twice. The first one, Yhwach was in full possesion of his powers and still got one shotted and died. Yhwach himself say that he died from Ichigo's getsuga tenshou.
Are you assuming then that the mantle of yhwach has universal resistance?
 
Are you assuming then that the mantle of yhwach has universal resistance?
Yhwach can passively hold multiple universal realms together with his reiatsu. Reiatsu boost your defense passively( shown and explained in the ichigo vs zaraki fight) and that you need to be durable enough to resist your own reiatsu without injuring your own body (shown in the byakuya vs bankai ichigo fight and by bankai yama and bankai kenpatchi).

So SK Yhwach have universal level reiatsu and can tank his own reiatsu without apparent problem = SK Yhwach have universal durability as well as universal AP.

You should really learn how bleach's basic combat mechanics work before saying that you know the verse well. Pretty much everything is clearly explained or showned in the manga.
 
Yhwach can passively hold multiple universal realms together with his reiatsu. Reiatsu boost your defense passively( shown and explained in the ichigo vs zaraki fight) and that you need to be durable enough to resist your own reiatsu without injuring your own body (shown in the byakuya vs bankai ichigo fight and by bankai yama and bankai kenpatchi).

So SK Yhwach have universal level reiatsu and can tank his own reiatsu without apparent problem = SK Yhwach have universal durability as well as universal AP.

You should really learn how bleach's basic combat mechanics work before saying that you know the verse well. Pretty much everything is clearly explained or showned in the manga.

gremmy created space with stars, but was hurt by inferior attacks


Zaraki who cut the meteor, was wounded by gremmy bombs (which had a lower power than zaraki's attack, as he cut easily)


I find it very difficult to assume attack with the same resistance level. Or the author doesn't take it very seriously at all...


But I also agree a lot with your point, I'm more neutral in this
 
gremmy created space with stars, but was hurt by inferior attacks


Zaraki who cut the meteor, was wounded by gremmy bombs (which had a lower power than zaraki's attack, as he cut easily)


I find it very difficult to assume attack with the same resistance level. Or the author doesn't take it very seriously at all...


But I also agree a lot with your point, I'm more neutral in this
Gremmy whole stuff is hax based and nothing else. His physical stats don't matter as they're also based on his ability ,wich vary greatly depending on what he imagine .

Why do you have a problem with Attack= defense ?
 
considering his war performance, and if he knows how to use all his power at bankai, i see him on a par with ichigo.


I haven't really seen much of ichigo, as I find it hard to assume that yhwach has universal endurance.. far from it..
You have no evidence for that, you are just saying that Ichigo can't be this strong because I think he is on par with Zaraki, you didn't provide proof for that
I provided proof that Ichigo is far above Zaraki using his fight against Yhwach, you said you don't think Yhwach has uni dura, why do u think that? because it will put Ichigo as uni and I don't believe that.
 
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