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BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

Arc7Kuroi said:
Here’s my translation and scan.
「神殿」 が伸縮する速さを、己の手を打つ速さになずらえる
Kamishininoyari's expansion and contraction speed is compared to the speed at which Gin strikes his hands ~ Arc

I do have speed revisions planned but I’m unsure of what meta I’ll argue for atm.
Click to expand...

How about you try to scale Mimihagi's speed feat to other Body Parts of Soul King and then make it a baseline for Captain tiers who fought each of those body parts on equal terms?

Remember God tiers quite literally transcends them by magnitudes and we know for a fact that Reiatsu scales to speed and Aizen's Reiatsu is soo huge that it cannot even be perceived at all by captains.
 
What are everyone’s current opinions on scaling reiatsu travel speed to combat speed? Setting aside whether the relevant feats (mostly Senjumaru’s) would actually be consistent.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Gin’s “did you hear that? It’s 500x faster than that” could potentially also be a mistranslation.
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I was curious and went to look at the raw to see if I could find anything about sound. I found this: "バレたらしゃれにならない教えといたげるわ神殺鎗の延びる速さ・・・届いた？今の五百倍や"
Literal translation without contexts: "If I were discovered, it wouldn’t be funny at all. I’ll teach you, the speed of Kamishini no Yari’s extension... Did it reach you? Now it’s 500 times."
There is no explicit "faster" and no "you hear that? so "500 times" of what? well, with the context we can find out. Gin in the first frame says: "I'll teach you, the speed of Kamishini no Yari's extension..." in other words, he's talking about speed, so it would be "500 times faster". However, "500 times faster" than what? Well, Gin doesn't say it directly, but he claps his hands and asks Ichigo if something reached him, he didn't threw anything at Ichigo, and also did not extend the bankai again, the only thing that could have gone from him to Ichigo was the sound of his handclap. So, discovering the entire context, the most accurate translation would be: "If I were discovered, it wouldn’t be funny at all. I’ll teach you, the speed of Kamishini no Yari’s extension... You hear that?it’s 500 times faster than that."

I think the only way remove this is to argue that there are more feats about this speed than anti-feats.
 
GTsek said:
I was curious and went to look at the raw to see if I could find anything about sound. I found this: "バレたらしゃれにならない教えといたげるわ神殺鎗の延びる速さ・・・届いた？今の五百倍や"
Literal translation without contexts: "If I were discovered, it wouldn’t be funny at all. I’ll teach you, the speed of Kamishini no Yari’s extension... Did it reach you? Now it’s 500 times."
There is no explicit "faster" and no "you hear that? so "500 times" of what? well, with the context we can find out. Gin in the first frame says: "I'll teach you, the speed of Kamishini no Yari's extension..." in other words, he's talking about speed, so it would be "500 times faster". However, "500 times faster" than what? Well, Gin doesn't say it directly, but he claps his hands and asks Ichigo if something reached him, he didn't threw anything at Ichigo, and also did not extend the bankai again, the only thing that could have gone from him to Ichigo was the sound of his handclap. So, discovering the entire context, the most accurate translation would be: "If I were discovered, it wouldn’t be funny at all. I’ll teach you, the speed of Kamishini no Yari’s extension... You hear that?it’s 500 times faster than that."

I think the only way remove this is to argue that there are more feats about this speed than anti-feats.
Click to expand...
You’re not correct in your analysis of the translation. However, as I said earlier I don’t disagree that it can still be interpreted as a Mach 500 statement. So that’s fine to interpret it as such, aka you’re not inherently incorrect in your interpretation. When I start the verse wide speed revisions, I will make a comprehensive thread addressing what I believe to be the most consistent Bleach speed scale.

EldemadeDityjon said:
Dude is trying to teach Arc how to read Japanese?
🙄🙄🙄
Click to expand...
Lmao yep. He might be the same dude who tried to do that before. I’ll break down the translation in depth when I tackle Bleach speed verse wide in the future.
 
TheLav69 said:
What are everyone’s current opinions on scaling reiatsu travel speed to combat speed? Setting aside whether the relevant feats (mostly Senjumaru’s) would actually be consistent.
Click to expand...
Travel speed only scales to combat speed if there’s proof that whatever can react to things while moving at said travel speed. However, Senjumaru casually propagating her spirit energy isn’t really a travel speed feat at all. It’s her spirit energy attack speed. Now as far as that scaling to her other stats, there is an argument to be made based upon verse mechanics of how one’s spirit energy directly determines how well and quickly one’s spiritual body can move. Whether or not that’s consistent with other scaling we will mainly have to wait and see as Cour 3 airs.
 
GTsek said:
I was curious and went to look at the raw to see if I could find anything about sound. I found this: "バレたらしゃれにならない教えといたげるわ神殺鎗の延びる速さ・・・届いた？今の五百倍や"
Literal translation without contexts: "If I were discovered, it wouldn’t be funny at all. I’ll teach you, the speed of Kamishini no Yari’s extension... Did it reach you? Now it’s 500 times."
There is no explicit "faster" and no "you hear that? so "500 times" of what? well, with the context we can find out. Gin in the first frame says: "I'll teach you, the speed of Kamishini no Yari's extension..." in other words, he's talking about speed, so it would be "500 times faster". However, "500 times faster" than what? Well, Gin doesn't say it directly, but he claps his hands and asks Ichigo if something reached him, he didn't threw anything at Ichigo, and also did not extend the bankai again, the only thing that could have gone from him to Ichigo was the sound of his handclap. So, discovering the entire context, the most accurate translation would be: "If I were discovered, it wouldn’t be funny at all. I’ll teach you, the speed of Kamishini no Yari’s extension... You hear that?it’s 500 times faster than that."

I think the only way remove this is to argue that there are more feats about this speed than anti-feats.
Click to expand...
Kirin hard caps your verse
 
I think it's fair to argue against things like Gin's if the evidence to the contrary was clear and abundant. It's the same case with Kirin and Dyspo 1000x SoL in DBS. I believe this kind of situation exists in any verse.
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
Dude is trying to teach Arc how to read Japanese?
🙄🙄🙄
Click to expand...
I didn't try to teach anyone, and even if I did, anyone can make mistakes, the issue with this translation is that it is interpretative, It is talking about sound in almost all languages that have been translated officially or by fans because the interpretation of whoever translates is that they are talking about the sound of clapping. The point is not just to put kanji into a translator and try to debunk or wank something, There must be interpretation and Arc knows this, which is why he himself does not say that one of the possibilities is absolute, and my comment was for the purpose of knowing his thoughts on this.
 
GTsek said:
I didn't try to teach anyone, and even if I did, anyone can make mistakes, the issue with this translation is that it is interpretative, It is talking about sound in almost all languages that have been translated officially or by fans because the interpretation of whoever translates is that they are talking about the sound of clapping. The point is not just to put kanji into a translator and try to debunk or wank something, There must be interpretation and Arc knows this, which is why he himself does not say that one of the possibilities is absolute, and my comment was for the purpose of knowing his thoughts on this.
Click to expand...
Ever heard of joke?😑
Anyway I know your interpretation is getting shot down by Databook scan. I'm gonna wait for Arcs thread.
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
Ever heard of joke?😑
Click to expand...
My bad, english is not my native language so I think this was a case of language barrier. I couldn't see the sarcasm.
EldemadeDityjon said:
Anyway I know your interpretation is getting shot down by Databook scan. I'm gonna wait for Arcs thread.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't be so sure, not even two Databook statements were enough to prevent the Kirin nerf, the manga's statement and interpretation prevailed.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Travel speed only scales to combat speed if there’s proof that whatever can react to things while moving at said travel speed. However, Senjumaru casually propagating her spirit energy isn’t really a travel speed feat at all. It’s her spirit energy attack speed. Now as far as that scaling to her other stats, there is an argument to be made based upon verse mechanics of how one’s spirit energy directly determines how well and quickly one’s spiritual body can move. Whether or not that’s consistent with other scaling we will mainly have to wait and see as Cour 3 airs.
Click to expand...
Another way to support it is to argue that characters scale to the speed of one’s projectile attacks (like Cero/Getsuga/Kido etc), and then argue that those projectile attacks would be relative/superior to their passive reiatsu in speed via having a higher concentration of reiatsu and such.
 
GTsek said:
My bad, english is not my native language so I think this was a case of language barrier. I couldn't see the sarcasm.

I wouldn't be so sure, not even two Databook statements were enough to prevent the Kirin nerf, the manga's statement and interpretation prevailed.
Click to expand...
Kirin and Gin’s situations are entirely different tbf. For the Kirin databook statements, it was argued that the speed of light wasn’t in reference to the attack speed of the jutsu for they were either determined to be hyperbolic or in reference to the flash as opposed to the physical bolt.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Kirin and Gin’s situations are entirely different tbf. For the Kirin databook statements, it was argued that the speed of light wasn’t in reference to the attack speed of the jutsu for they were either determined to be hyperbolic or in reference to the flash as opposed to the physical bolt.
Click to expand...
I see it differently, in fact I see both situations as the same, as this argument against Kirin can also be interpretative.
 
GTsek said:
I see it differently, in fact I see both situations as the same, as this argument against Kirin can also be interpretative.
Click to expand...
They are tangentially similar at best. Quite literally everything is interpretative. That doesn’t change the fact that with Kirin the discussion is surrounding how literal or hyperbolic something is, wherein for Gin the discussion is surrounding the context of the statement and how that changes what is being referred to. No one is arguing about whether or not Gin is speaking with flowery language or not. Furthermore, with Kirin there’s an argument about whether or not it caps characters based upon Zetsu’s analysis of it being unavoidable and which characters that would even apply to aka a hard cap, wherein Gin’s situation discusses more of a soft cap, given both Ichigo and Gin have feats in that battle of being faster than KnY. They’re similar in the sense that they are pivotal speed arguments for both verses, but that’s kinda it and superficial.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
They are tangentially similar at best. Quite literally everything is interpretative. That doesn’t change the fact that with Kirin the discussion is surrounding how literal or hyperbolic something is, wherein for Gin the discussion is surrounding the context of the statement and how that changes what is being referred to. No one is arguing about whether or not Gin is speaking with flowery language or not. Furthermore, with Kirin there’s an argument about whether or not it caps characters based upon Zetsu’s analysis of it being unavoidable and which characters that would even apply to aka a hard cap, wherein Gin’s situation discusses more of a soft cap, given both Ichigo and Gin have feats in that battle of being faster than KnY. They’re similar in the sense that they are pivotal speed arguments for both verses, but that’s kinda it and superficial.
Click to expand...
I see. I said they are similar but in a different way. In this case, both are a matter of interpretation anyway, because how to identify a hyperbole, when it is not used with language that make it clear that it is hyperbole? In the case of the Kirin, any argument that the speed of light is not in reference to the Kirin itself is ridiculous, as it clearly has "the light speed ATTACK is inevitable" in the 3rd databook and "approaches the enemy at the speed of light" in the 2nd fanbook. The statement is for Kirin itself, it cannot be for anything else. About being hyperbole or not, I wanted to know your point of view on what you would consider a hyperbole. It is even easy to notice one when it is in English or in our native language, but a language like Japanese is very different. For example "光速" is the literal way of describing the speed of light, the context would be needed to know if it is a hyperbole or not, my view of it is that a statement with these kanji, when they are in a fictional series of clearly superhuman characters, it is never a hyperbole, and rather has the possibility of being an Outlier or PIS.
 
at-the-end-of-the-day-its-just-discord-lebron-james.png
 
Honestly I just want great animation this time around. Cour 2 had good animation at points but I was overall disappointed by the amount of Sakugas there. It also felt very inconsistent for some reason. Whereas cour 1 may not have enough fights in comparison to cour 2 but it made important moments worth remembering with how beautifully they were animated.

However after seeing the trailer and the news of having new sub studio for animating Bleach alone, I think we are going to enjoy the animation very much this time around.
 
SuperSonicTL said:
Honestly I just want great animation this time around. Cour 2 had good animation at points but I was overall disappointed by the amount of Sakugas there. It also felt very inconsistent for some reason. Whereas cour 1 may not have enough fights in comparison to cour 2 but it made important moments worth remembering with how beautifully they were animated.

However after seeing the trailer and the news of having new sub studio for animating Bleach alone, I think we are going to enjoy the animation very much this time around.
Click to expand...

Not that I'm complaining much. It is such a blessing that the series even got this much love after all the bashing it got over the years.
 
Naeblis495 said:
What's this about ?
Click to expand...
VSBW banning a person(Raven) but not doing anything more to help said dog that they believe is in mortal danger since she fed the dog chicken bones at times or something. So VSBW saved the dog and taught Raven a lesson by banning her. If what I gathered about the situation is legit. Also lol at the whole thing. VSBW rules/bans are a joke.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Raven got banned for calling the staff the hard r n word and having her perma ban appeal revoked due to displaying evidence that she hasn’t changed since when she was previously perma banned. Just don’t speak if you’re going to get it so blatantly wrong.
Click to expand...
Damn only if I could see deleted post when reading through the thread. It sounds like I should get a promotion to mod, no?

And well if people are armchair footballing her personal life and only caring about the dog when they both starving eh. Racial slurs don't help her her case at all though.
 
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