Attempting to debunk Super Mario 64 power star (yet again!)

[Foxthefox1000]

I thought realms with stars could stay because of the Mario Party 4 thing where it manipulated dozens of stars (at least until that feat gets properly evaluated) but I suppose it would be worth a link to the calc and rewording. But yeah I guess it can be removed. Tbf I was also tired when making the changes

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Looking at the edits, and why wasn't Paper Mario included? And I thought base didn't include the Galaxy games

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

I decided to make a strikethrough instead for that statement, at least until we can decide on what to do with it

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. The main problems here seems to be that you did not appear to make it very clear that the characters scale from a grand star then, along with that you gave the Grand Star 3-C statistics and those empowered by it "At least 3-C" statistics, with 3-C statistics on their own/otherwise.

I would appreciate further help from our knowledgeable members and other staff members regarding what we should do here.

 

[Antvasima]

Here are Foxthefox's recent edits:

User contributions for Foxthefox1000 | VS Battles Wiki | Fandom

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Alrighty, looks like 4-A was deemed illegitimate so the characters would be either High 4-C or 3-C based on other currently accepted feats.

• High 4-C: This calculation, Yoshi turning Raphael Raven into a constellation, and I guess Hole Punch’s feat
• 3-C: Scaling from Grand Stars and Lumas. The latter rating seems to be more favored though

Was the replacement rating already decided on?

 

[Eficiente]

I don't find ok how 3-C was applied, we agreed that a 4-A feat was wrong, we had to remove it, who agreed on the 3-C stuff that wasn't applied before should replace that stat?

I have issues with the 3-C stat, should I word them here? This thread's not about that.

 

[Antvasima]

I am not sure if they should be worded here or in the other thread.

I would also appreciate input regarding the following issues:

The main problems here seems to be that you did not appear to make it very clear that the characters scale from a grand star then, along with that you gave the Grand Star 3-C statistics and those empowered by it "At least 3-C" statistics, with 3-C statistics on their own/otherwise.

I would appreciate further help from our knowledgeable members and other staff members regarding what we should do here.

 

[Antvasima]

Alrighty, looks like 4-A was deemed illegitimate so the characters would be either High 4-C or 3-C based on other currently accepted feats.

• High 4-C: This calculation, Yoshi turning Raphael Raven into a constellation, and I guess Hole Punch’s feat
• 3-C: Scaling from Grand Stars and Lumas. The latter rating seems to be more favored though

Was the replacement rating already decided on?

Should we apply High 4-C statistics for their regular statistics, and 3-C for when they are empowered by Grand Stars?

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Yoshi turning Raphael Raven into a constellation

I've always interpreted is a chain reaction than really Raphael becoming a constellation

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

I guess Hole Punch’s feat

Do we accept gag feats as legitamate feats? I mean, there was a reason why BlazBlue was downgraded for a while

 

[TMaakkonen]

If there are problems with High 4-C feats, would it be better for them to get a separate CRT?

 

[Antvasima]

Here is an example of what the Mario page looks like, after I made corrections to editing structure errors. Is this accurate?

Mario

Mario is the main character and protagonist of the long-running and highly successful Mario series. He was created by Japanese video game designer Shigeru Miyamoto and also serves as the main mascot of Nintendo. Mario made his first appearance as the protagonist of the arcade game Donkey Kong...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Should we apply High 4-C statistics for their regular statistics, and 3-C for when they are empowered by Grand Stars?

That sounds fine I suppose.

If there are problems with High 4-C feats, would it be better for them to get a separate CRT?

Since this thread is basically about axing 4-A I think deciding on a replacement Tier in the same thread would be best, even if only a temporary one.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. The main problems here seems to be that you did not appear to make it very clear that the characters scale from a grand star then, along with that you gave the Grand Star 3-C statistics and those empowered by it "At least 3-C" statistics, with 3-C statistics on their own/otherwise.

I would appreciate further help from our knowledgeable members and other staff members regarding what we should do here.

Alrighty, looks like 4-A was deemed illegitimate so the characters would be either High 4-C or 3-C based on other currently accepted feats.

• High 4-C: This calculation, Yoshi turning Raphael Raven into a constellation, and I guess Hole Punch’s feat
• 3-C: Scaling from Grand Stars and Lumas. The latter rating seems to be more favored though

Was the replacement rating already decided on?

Should we apply High 4-C statistics for their regular statistics, and 3-C for when they are empowered by Grand Stars?

Here is an example of what the Mario page looks like, after I made corrections to editing structure errors. Is this accurate?

Mario

Mario is the main character and protagonist of the long-running and highly successful Mario series. He was created by Japanese video game designer Shigeru Miyamoto and also serves as the main mascot of Nintendo. Mario made his first appearance as the protagonist of the arcade game Donkey Kong...

vsbattles.fandom.com

@CrimsonStarFallen @DarkDragonMedeus @GyroNutz @SamanPatou @AKM sama

 

[GyroNutz]

Should we apply High 4-C statistics for their regular statistics, and 3-C for when they are empowered by Grand Stars?

Seems fine. I thought a blog was going to be made containing the english statements talking about creation + their japanese counterpart first though.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Would you be willing to apply the change to all the relevant Mario pages please?

Also, would that be fine with the rest of the staff members who are interested in Mario?

@CrimsonStarFallen @DarkDragonMedeus @AKM sama @SamanPatou @Dino_Ranger_Black

 

[AKM sama]

Should we apply High 4-C statistics for their regular statistics, and 3-C for when they are empowered by Grand Stars?

Seems fine to me as a placeholder for now. I believe people have plans for more revisions in the future, so we will see how they go.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for the evaluation. So would you be willing to handle it please, Gyro?

 

[Mephistus]

Could potentially be added to the blog comparing the japanese and english; it uses the updated version of the japanese story from the instruction book fox linked with similar translations with updating Peach's name, instead of using Toadstool. If someone wants to use the archive.org for the link they can use that too.

スーパーマリオ64 | ゲームアーカイブ | マリオポータル | Nintendo

マリオシリーズの『スーパーマリオ64』をご紹介します。

www.nintendo.co.jp

スーパーマリオ64 | ゲームアーカイブ | マリオポータル | Nintendo

マリオシリーズの『スーパーマリオ64』をご紹介します。

web.archive.org

"『お城に遊びに来ませんか？ケーキを焼いて待ってます』
「Wow、ピーチからの招待状だ。今すぐ行くよ、待ってておくれ!」
キノコ城のお姫様・ピーチから手紙をもらったマリオは大喜び。めいっぱいのオシャレをして、さっそく出かけていきました。
「ん？お城の様子が何だかヘンだぞ。ミョ〜に静まりかえってる」
イヤな予感をふりはらい、ひっそりとしたお城に足を踏み入れてみると、
『誰もいません、とっととお帰りを。ガハハハッ!』
どこからともなく乱暴なことばが響いてきました。
「誰だ！？でもこの声、どこかで聞いたことあるような…」
マリオはお城のあちこちを探り始めました。ほとんどのドアにカギがかかっていましたが、あいている部屋を見つけて中をのぞいてみると、見たこともないような大きな絵が掛かっています。そしてその絵の奥の方から、ふしぎな音が聞こえてくるのです。
「誰かが呼んでいる気がする。きっと何か秘密があるはずだ!」
一か八か、マリオは絵に向かって飛び込みました。するとどうでしょう、そこには別の世界が広がっていたのです!
さあ、大冒険の始まりです!
絵の中では、ボムへいたちが戦闘のまっ最中。
赤いボムへいの話では、突然攻めてきた怪物がお城を守るちからの素「パワースター」を大量に奪い取り、キノコ城を自分のものにしようとしているそうで、そいつは絵の世界の住人たちをも怪物に仕立てあげるつもりだとか。このままほうっておいたら怪物たちが、絵の中からぞくぞくとあふれ出てくるらしいのです。
『やっぱりこれは、クッパのしわざだ!』
ピーチ姫やキノピオたちも、クッパが絵の中に連れ去ったに違いありません。
いっこくも早くパワースターを取り返さないと、この世界はクッパ軍団のものになってしまいます。
「クッパの思い通りにさせてたまるか!」
奪われたパワースターは、絵の世界のさまざまな場所に隠されています。知恵と力をフルに使って取り戻し、キノコ城に平和をよみがえらせてください。マリオ、たよりになるのはキミしかいない。"

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out.

 

[GyroNutz]

Thank you for the evaluation. So would you be willing to handle it please, Gyro?

I thought a blog was going to be made containing the english statements talking about creation + their japanese counterpart first though.

I could, but would rather if this was done first, to ensure we haven't missed anything.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Would anybody here be willing to handle it please? And are there any people that you can recommend me to call that would be able to do so?

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I could, but would rather if this was done first, to ensure we haven't missed anything.

Okay. Would anybody here be willing to handle it please? And are there any people that you can recommend me to call that would be able to do so?

I’ve done so: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...tion_Comparisons#Japanese_instruction_booklet

 

[Antvasima]

I’ve done so: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...tion_Comparisons#Japanese_instruction_booklet

Thank you very much for the help.

@TheNinthHour

We would very greatly appreciate your help with translating the Japanese text in the blog post linked above.

 

[Eficiente]

Please add the Mario Bros category to the blog.

 

[Antvasima]

Please add the Mario Bros category to the blog.

Maverick handled it.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

The issue with a Grand Star tier is that they are NOT empowered by Grand Stars but beat people who have used them. If we made a tier specifically for those Empowered by them it'd only apply to a few people but wouldn't make sense cause everyone scales to them. The removal of Power Stars changes the scaling system up greatly to where they now only have Lumas and Grand Stars to scale to, making a scaling chain of 3 galaxy level things (Power Stars included ATM) they're above or comparable to, beating out the legitimate Tier 4 (only really 1, maybe 2) feats

Though in my thread Lumas and Power Stars may actually scale lower if it goes through, bringing us to a ratio of 1 (maybe 2):1:1

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

@Foxthefox1000 Why don't we have a Galaxy key then? I think that would solve the issue

 

[Foxthefox1000]

No. I don't know what your obsession with Galaxy not being a main game is, but it is and you just need to accept that.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Well maybe instead of having a key that says 'With the Power Star' we can make the key say 'With the Little Luma' that imo make more sense since Mario is unable to use the Launch Stars without the Little Luma

 

[Foxthefox1000]

No. Apparently the Luma just enabled him to traverse space and use the Spin, but otherwise isn't an amp. My other thread would've made the Luma an amp due to granting the power of the stars but that seems to have been disagreed with. The "power of the stars" in this context would just be granting spaceflight and the spin.

Though, Bowser in the same game says he acquired the Power of the Stars which DID amp him so I think we actually Can say Mario was amped by the Luma in Galaxy 2. But unfortunately not Galaxy 1, which some enemies did have a Grand Star and drained it, so still no dice on an amped tier. Maybe we could say "at least 3-C, likely higher" in an amped tier.

 

[Antvasima]

The issue with a Grand Star tier is that they are NOT empowered by Grand Stars but beat people who have used them. If we made a tier specifically for those Empowered by them it'd only apply to a few people but wouldn't make sense cause everyone scales to them. The removal of Power Stars changes the scaling system up greatly to where they now only have Lumas and Grand Stars to scale to, making a scaling chain of 3 galaxy level things (Power Stars included ATM) they're above or comparable to, beating out the legitimate Tier 4 (only really 1, maybe 2) feats

Though in my thread Lumas and Power Stars may actually scale lower if it goes through, bringing us to a ratio of 1 (maybe 2):1:1

But that is not what the relevant profile pages currently say, as far as I am aware. There are two separate keys, 3-C for their base statistics, and "At least 3-C" for being empowered by a Grand Star, which doesn't particularly make sense, and in addition it is unclear what exactly that the characters scale from based on the information in the profile pages alone.

 

[Antvasima]

But that is not what the relevant profile pages currently say, as far as I am aware. There are two separate keys, 3-C for their base statistics, and "At least 3-C" for being empowered by a Grand Star, which doesn't particularly make sense, and in addition it is unclear what exactly that the characters scale from based on the information in the profile pages alone.

@GyroNutz @DarkDragonMedeus @AKM sama @Foxthefox1000

So what should we do here? Should the Mario cast be downgraded to High 4-C in base and 3-C when empowered by Grand Stars?

 

[Antvasima]

You as well @Eficiente .

 

[GyroNutz]

So what should we do here? Should the Mario cast be downgraded to High 4-C in base and 3-C when empowered by Grand Stars?

Most tier 4 feats come from Power Stars and Lumas anyway, it'd be better to rate them at whatever tier these sit at. So 3-C base.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay, and what should we do about the strange scaling of giving the Grand Stars a 3-C rating, but the "Empowered by Grand Star" keys "At least 3-C" ratings?

 

[GyroNutz]

Okay, and what should we do about the strange scaling of giving the Grand Stars a 3-C rating, but the "Empowered by Grand Star" keys "At least 3-C" ratings?

Remove the "At least". The gap between baselines 3-C and 3-B is too high for an "At least" based on upscaling.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Would you, or some other experienced member here who knows how to edit properly, be willing to handle it please?

 

[GyroNutz]

Yeah I can apply it later