Assassin EMIYA vs Homura Akemi

[Schnee_One]

What are the votes now?

 

[Reppuzan]

@Monarch

We've never seen Phantasm Punishment interact with a Time Spell though. We've only seen it interact with forcefields, constructs, and other physical objects.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

True.

 

[Schnee_One]

Monarch, Repp.

Vote Dammit

 

[Reppuzan]

@Gar

Homura seems to win this one via time stop and mind hax, but I don't know or care enough about PMMM to do the research right now.

 

[Schnee_One]

Homura doesn't have Mind Hax in this form

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

@Iapitus
It's still not a timestop. It simulates a time stop by moving so fast that time and space have no bearing on him.

There's a huge difference.

I'd say unbinding youself from the abstract concepts of time and space is definitely better than time stop. also, you have the cause and effect reversed there; he is fast because he is unbound from time, not unbound from time because he is fast

there is a bnig difference, and I would say Edmund's version is superior

 

[Reppuzan]

@Iapitus

A plane flies a hell of a lot faster than car. It doesn't mean that they'll react the same way if a bird flies into them.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

I don't see your point. Being unbound from the concept of Time > Stopping time. And unless you got some version of time stop like DIO, his Immeasurable 'speed' gained by it is superior across the board

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

@Iapitus
A plane flies a hell of a lot faster than car. It doesn't mean that they'll react the same way if a bird flies into them.

Yeah... not understanding this metaphor

 

[Reppuzan]

@Monarch and Iapitus

You can have two things. One operates at a level that's superior to the other. But they have different mechanisms and they won't respond to stimuli the same way.

Edmond's ability is a massive speed boost. Time Stop is a Time Stop. You can't expect them to interact with an ability in the same way.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Ok

I would not, for example, expect someone resistant to time stop to not get blitzed by Edmond.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

But True Magic is impossibly above due to the nature of the Nasuverse.

Are you saying Karna's or Siegfried's armor, or even more simply Achilles invulnerability wouldn't stop Tsubame Gaeshi, which is a sword technique using a Second Magic? The Magic Resistance example doesn't work because A rank is not equal to the power of True Magic, it's not even equal to the power of Semiramis magic inside her Hanging Gardens, and she's just using super powerful magecraft.

Lack of proof is not proof in itself, but that's unnecessary since Homura's projectiles stop alongside everything else and Emiya is dodging those with speed blitzing.

 

[Reppuzan]

@LSir

Bad comparison.

Tsubame Gaeshi dips into the Second Magic. It isn't a full-on application of the navigation of infinite parallel worlds. The technique doesn't affect the nature of Sasaki's katana. We've never seen any of the Five True Magics of the modern era used directly in combat aside from Aoko's time acceleration.

I don't see how EMIYA is going to get around full-on time stop.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

@Rep

He can get around it because loldrain is not Homura's go-to in fights, and anything she touches unfreezes, while everything she's not touching freezes a few seconds after it leaves her touch.

She won't actually damage him in time stop - she'd just set up a bunch of explosives and incoming bullets, then unfreeze time. Which, if he starts with Chronos Rose, gives him enough time to dodge.

 

[Schnee_One]

Chronos Rose is thought based or not?

Because Homura requires to pull out her dome to activate hers.

Of course if she goes for the Drain she wins.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Chronos Rose is just Servant time alter, so yes, it's thought based.

Pretty sure her shield is always on her arm though

 

[Schnee_One]

Then yeah unless Homura can get her time Stop off before he blitzes and instantly goes for Drain if she does I'm not seeing how he doesn't win.

 

[Schnee_One]

Pretty sure her shield is always on her arm though

She has to bring it up to switch it, as shown by her little banter with Sayaka

 

[GalaxianAegis]

Having trouble counting the votes given that people have flip flopped, if someone could help out with that I'd appreciate knowing what your vote is next reply.

 

[Kaltias]

She spams it in character.

She also has time slow and acceleration to counter EMIYA's

The fight against Mami is also a really bad example considering that it was one of the few occasions when she was unable to stop time.

 

[Schnee_One]

I never used Mami as an example with time Stop spamming , I meant after she time stopped Mami she tried to use a gun before hesitating

Doesn't Homura use the thing on her arm tho? Sugu's is thought based

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

@Kal, how much does Homura's time accel speed her up by? Because his is enough to let him instantly blitz people with superior base speed to him

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Actually, in what occasions has Homura used her Drain or BFR maneuver? I can understand her magic boosted weapons and time stop, but I can't recall how go-to those two moves are. Or at least, how willing she's to pull them off before Kiri blitz her if he gets the chance, and he's likely to with his battle philosophy, specially so if he can cop with her first Time Stop.

 

[Kaltias]

@Gar

She does. But unless his time manipulation makes him relativistic or something, he isn't running for 4 km before the time stop is activated (does his time manipulation have that kind of range btw?)

@Monarch

It's kind of complicated because it's from a PSP game, although both Clock Up and Clock Down make her speed >> Sayaka's. So while they are probably inferior individually, they should be more than enough to avoid a blitz. And she can stack time accel and time slow.

@Sir

She doesn't lead with those (actually not sure if she is aware of them to begin with prior to the WA)

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Thing is then, it's still a matter of who gets their time accel off first in that case.

Doesn't matter if you can make yourself just as fast as (or faster, or infinitely faster than) your opponent, if they blitz you before you do it.

 

[Kaltias]

Which again, he isn't going to do unless that speed boost allows him to run 4 km before Homura can time stop.

Moving a gear takes slightly longer, but to blitz her to this point he would really need to be entire speed tiers above her

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

What is this version of Homura's speed?

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

I want to say that makes this one of those times "a balanced alternative should be discussed", seeing as she outranges him by several kilometres.

 

[Kaltias]

@Lancelot

It's equalized

@Monarch

I mean, if they were closer it would be either "EMIYA blitzes gg", or "we can't really tell who strikes first so we don't know"

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

@Monarch

I mean, if they were closer it would be either "EMIYA blitzes gg", or "we can't really tell who strikes first so we don't know"

That might be true, but if the starting distance alone decides who wins, not a good match.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Actually, I just realised

No one has brought up Emiya's presence concealment, which is of a ridiculous A+ rank.

And PC is passive. He'll have it going from the moment the fight starts.

Time stop or not, Homura will never find him until the moment before he shoots her in the back of the head

 

[Kaltias]

But she can see people who are invisible?

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

PC isn't exactly invisibility, though it's what we rate it as. It's more like stealth mastery, just on a level so good the person in effectively invisible. It's an inability to be perceived.

 

[Kaltias]

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Pretty much, it's why Assassin(Zero) even won against Da Vinci, otherwise she could have made a Temple and riddled it with tons of traps that would disregard eye sight to kill him. Total Presence Erasure would be closer to it.

That said, the rank drastically falls as he gets ready to attack, but it isn't lost entirely.

Cursed Arm Hassan has an odd arm, Big Boss has a mechanical arm... Hmmm...

 

[Reppuzan]

@Kaltias

Presence Concealment is like a combination of invisibility and eliminating one's presence from people's senses so they simply don't notice you.

Jack the Ripper also has an A+ Rank in this skill and was able to walk around in broad daylight in the middle of a crowded street in a major Romanian city while carrying a heavily mutilated corpse without drawing any attention even though her Master was able to interact with her just fine.

Mordred was only able to stop Jack from assassinating Shishigou because her Mana Burst allowed her to move fast enough to kick Shishigou out of the way and knock Jack's knife into the air once Jack put a knife to Shishou's throat.

Even Servants are unable to detect someone with this level of Presence Concealment until they attack, upon which the effective rank of the skill sharply drops until they leave combat.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

What Rep said

Homura wouldn't know EMIYA is there until he's pointing a gun at her head at point blank range.

And even if she can regenerate from that, losing her head wait a moment this isn't Mami vs EMIYA is going to be a problem, seeing as her eyes and stuff will also be gone. And if EMIYA sees her corpse staggering around, he's going to put her down in a more permanent manner.

Edit: Oh wait, she wouldn't even be able to heal from that due to the Origin powers

 

[Kaltias]

Is this really fair then?

Either sensing Kyubey is a feat good enough to sense him, in which case he gets time stopped, or she can't, and she just kind of dies without the ability to do anything meaningful.

It doesn't look balanced either way

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Remind me why sensing Kyubey is a good feat?