Arthur Morgan vs Edward Kenway

[Aetheric Pariah]

Weapons don't scale to the user. Weapons are weapons, and will do the exact same amount of damage no matter who wields them.

 

[KLOL506]

Not exactly but even flintlocks in the verse can blow up human heads in a single shot. Cesare in the Brotherhood novel blew up Micheletto's head.

EDIT: This comment is for Dante Demon Killah BTW

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Yeah, that goes verse by verse and AC takes sharp weaponry and piercing damage like that

 

[SpookyShadow]

Weapons don't scale to the user. Weapons are weapons, and will do the exact same amount of damage no matter who wields them.

Yeah. Even if a 6-B wielded a glock, the glock itself is not 6-B. Unless it has shown to be able to harm other 6-B's.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

Like I don't understand the argument at all. Edward has shown to be able to be pierced by many things, so why is he suddenly bulletproof?

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Not exactly but even flintlocks in the verse can blow up human heads in a single shot. Cesare in the Brotherhood novel blew up Micheletto's head.
EDIT: This comment is for Dante Demon Killah BTW

Hmm, gameplay or cutscenes ?

The novel feat is vague as the description "blowing someone's head" usually means shooting it

 

[SpookyShadow]

He's not. AC got multiple feats of people being shot and being heavily damaged by that.

 

[KLOL506]

Like I don't understand the argument at all. Edward has shown to be able to be pierced by many things, so why is he suddenly bulletproof?

Nobody's assuming that, what we are saying tho is that Edward has taken piercing damage from weapons wielded by considerably more powerful foes in the verse.

 

[Jamesthetaker]

Like I don't understand the argument at all. Edward has shown to be able to be pierced by many things, so why is he suddenly bulletproof?

Because said weapons is the same level as he is. Weapons in fictional usually being portrayed stronger or weaker than real world weapons.

 

[SpookyShadow]

For example, Lee being shot by Connor in 3 and he's probably physically comparable

 

[KLOL506]

Not exactly but even flintlocks in the verse can blow up human heads in a single shot. Cesare in the Brotherhood novel blew up Micheletto's head.
EDIT: This comment is for Dante Demon Killah BTW

Hmm, gameplay or cutscenes ?
The novel feat is vague as the description "blowing someone's head" usually means shooting it

Nope, the novel was pretty explicit about it. Micheletto's entire face was blown up.

Both in gameplay and cutscenes.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

I would understand if there weren't guns within the AC verse, and we have no showings of Edward being pierced by such things, but he has. Why is Edward being treated as 4 tiers higher than Arthur?

 

[KLOL506]

Because the guns in AC are also being treated as 1 tier higher than Arthur?

EDIT: Sorry, 1 tier

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

Weapons are like hax, they are completely seperate from tiering. A lot of weapons are 9-C, but can harm characters much higher than that in tiers, even up to tier 3.

 

[Jamesthetaker]

I would understand if there weren't guns within the AC verse, and we have no showings of Edward being pierced by such things, but he has. Why is Edward being treated as 4 tiers higher than Arthur?

Edward is only a tier above Arthur. Weapons being stronger than real world counterpart is a common thing in fictional. There is a verse where even arrows is 7-A, but it was treated as normal arrow in-universe. It could be stronger or weaker compare to others arrow outside of their own verse.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

If the arrows are 7-A by piercing people with 7-A durability, then it's the same case here, those characters are vulnerable to sharp weaponry and piercing damage

A Arrow being 7-A without any explanation is eh

For the thread, what Edward opens with ?

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

I could easily say Arthur's weapons are extremely more powerul than IRL counterparts as well. Especially with ammo types, since a single bullet can dismember humans instantly.

 

[Schwxnz]

Unfollowing.

 

[KLOL506]

If the arrows are 7-A by piercing people with 7-A durability, then it's the same case here, those characters are vulnerable to sharp weaponry and piercing damage
A Arrow being 7-A without any explanation is eh

For the thread, what Edward opens with ?

Generally he'll go in with his Hidden Blades first, flintlocks second and swords third in a stealth situation.

In open combat, it's the other way around.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Okay from what I see, it is a ranged Combat in the beggining

Arthur's chance is using that Vision to shoot Ed in his head or vital parts, however they have speed to dodge this

However if Ed gets close, Arthur's dead

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

So I've been told that AC weapons are the same caliber as RDR 2 weapons, now I'm being told that AC guns are much more powerful than RDR2 weapons because RDR2 weapons don't have feats of piercing 9-A characters?

 

[Jamesthetaker]

Take AC as a example: people with 9-A tier is a very common thing, even a normal people is. So anything like guns or bullets should be as well. They were considered normal in their own world. Compare to the real world, it would be much stronger.

 

[KLOL506]

Basically this, yeah.

 

[Jamesthetaker]

@Obi2cool4kenobi

Yes, the best feats RDR2 weapons capable of is 9-B at best.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Wait, fodders are 9-A in AC ?

 

[KLOL506]

John Marston gets a 9-A vapegun which might wield way more than vaping humans since it vapes cows and horses too.

 

[Jamesthetaker]

Wait, fodders are 9-A in AC ?

Yeah, i think so. Even some guards could harm Edward in a way or another.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

So verse equalization isn't a thing? Theoretical, let's say Arthur had yamato from DMC, and in verse he only faces 9-B characters and kills them with yamato. Yamato in this sense wouldn't work on Edward because yamato has only shown feats of killing people who were 9-B and below, even though in verse no one is above that tier, and the weapon doesn't scale to the user?

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

Guards in AC have no feats, weapons, or showing of destroying small buildings. You're saying they are able to damage and hurt AC protagonists and that makes them 9-A? Their weapons mean nothing in this term?

 

[KLOL506]

Nope, verse equalization is a no-no.

Unless it's Fun and Games

 

[Jamesthetaker]

Verse equalization never been a thing. Unless you're using it for fun and game thread.

If there was a Yamato in RDR, it might functional the same as one in DMC but unless it show any feats above 9-B, it's still 9-B at best. This is only a example so don't take it too seriously.

 

[KLOL506]

Wait, fodders are 9-A in AC ?

Yeah, i think so. Even some guards could harm Edward in a way or another.

Yeah, fodder are a lower degree of 9-A, but 9-A nonetheless.

Captains, janissaries and elite guards on the other hand scale in full to the protags.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Wait, fodders are 9-A in AC ?

Yeah, i think so. Even some guards could harm Edward in a way or another.

That's gameplay, it can't be used

Take games like GOW for example, in gameplay Kratos, a 2-C, can be hurt by 9-Bs

We need feats in lore/cutscenes to say that every human is 9-A

 

[Jamesthetaker]

Guards in AC have no feats, weapons, or showing of destroying small buildings. You're saying they are able to damage and hurt AC protagonists and that makes them 9-A? Their weapons mean nothing in this term?

Well still scale a character to another, if they can harmed them.

For example: A character doesn't have any feat above 9-B, but he can harmed B character who has at least one 9-B feat. So A character scale to B character.

 

[Jamesthetaker]

@Dante Demon Killah

To fair, anybody in AC got a decent training or got into a royal position, they should have the strength to compare to Edward as well. Maybe a lower degree but still scale to him.

 

[KLOL506]

Wait, fodders are 9-A in AC ?

Yeah, i think so. Even some guards could harm Edward in a way or another.

That's gameplay, it can't be used
Take games like GOW for example, in gameplay Kratos, a 2-C, can be hurt by 9-Bs

We need feats in lore/cutscenes to say that every human is 9-A

Fodder are shown to be 9-B to low-end 9-A in lore and cutscenes (Not the 9-A+ calc, but the 2x baseline 9-A door-busting calc, and some even managed to hold off against Olympos Projects for a while, but only the elite captains managed to survive that event and thus scale to the top-tiers of the verse, either way, main game bosses and elite captains only) (At least, those that haven't gone through the Animi Training Program, but only the modern day characters scale so that's a no-go already).

Also fodder guards only take small chunks of health. Elite Captains and Generals aren't fodder and can legitimately give a real threat.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

Yeah but that is gameplay as well. In game, Edward has to hit one guard in actual combat "not just assassination" many times before they die, yet in cutscenes and such they die in one hit.

 

[SpookyShadow]

Good example of 9-A fodders are them being beat up in bars by Kenways and still living afterwards

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

Also, by your logic a Browning M2 in real life wouldn't pierce or hurt Edward

 

[KLOL506]

Not really a fight tho, Edward kicked their asses.

That big armored dude tho, you couldn't kill him without guns or disarming him and he'd literally one-shot you if given a chance. Oh wait, he's a boss.

TBH tho, only fodder that actually scale are the Abstergo guards since they relived the lives of Ezio's enemies and absorbed their powers and skillsets via the Animi Training Program.