Arthur Morgan vs Edward Kenway

[Aetheric Pariah]

-Takes place in a forest full of animals, both start 1 1/2 miles away from each other. Whoever hunts down the other and kills them first wins.

-(Edward is hunting Arthur and is trying to assassinate him. Arthur knows Edward is coming, but neither are aware of each other's abilites)

- Edward has Flintlock Pistols, Smoke Bombs,Throwing Knifes, Dual Sword Set, Hidden Blades, and Posion Darts.

- Arthur has 2 Volcanic Pistols, a Pump Shotgun and Litchfield Repeater, machete and 3 sticks of dynamite. Arthur has the ability to use dead eye and health vials, and has access to all ammo types.

- Speed Equalized

(Arthur is Healthy)

(Edward doesn't have Mayan Armor or Shroud of Eden)

Arthur:4

Edward:3

Inconclusive: 3

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

Bruh

As someone who loves both these characters to death, Arthur gets stomped so hard. Kinda seems like a spite thread

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

How so?

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

I was requested to close this and I will do so. It also seems like it is a stomp, due to the fact that Edward is far superior AP and can one-shot Arthur because of his durability. Edward also has much more hax than Arthur.

If anyone wishes to argue otherwise, please message me at my wall.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Reopened for If anyone else wishes to give their thoughts.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

So yeah, my reasoning for this being a stomp

Arthur is only 9-A with explosives, and that requires a lot of prep time, and Edward can tank stronger 9-A stuff. His guns won't harm Edward in anyway, and Dead-Eye is practically useless against all of Edwards abilities. Arthur has no way of harming Edward even with 9-A explosives and prep time

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

That is completely headcanon to believe. In game Edward can die from flintlock pistols, but arthur won't be able to kill him with much better weaponry? I would understand if Edward had mayan armor and the shroud, and on my part I am to blame for not clearing that up sooner, but Edward isn't some superman like being who is bulletproof by himself. He is still human, and in game he can die to things much much less powerful than what arthur has. If edward is able to close the distance then yes he would win since he has much better abilities and weapons for close quarter combat, but the problem is him closing the distance. I believe this to be a very cool matchup with the terrain and such but brushing it off as a stomp over something like that is wrong.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Well, does Ed showcased durability against piercing damage ? Because most verses with very resistant characters still make them hurt against bullets and swords

Take DMC as example, Dante is 7-A, can tank 200 megatons energy attack but a bullet can pierce his skin

And as far I remember, sharp weaponry and shots can hurt the assassins in their game, so bullets might be dangerous

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

Well, does Ed showcased durability against piercing damage ? Because most verses with very resistant characters still make them hurt against bullets and swords
Take DMC as example, Dante is 7-A, can tank 200 megatons energy attack but a bullet can pierce his skin

And as far I remember, sharp weaponry and shots can hurt the assassins in their game, so bullets might be dangerous

Edward has been shown to be pierced by flintlock pistols. Also, edward has Low-Mid regen, so if his head gets blown off he's not coming back.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

At least Small Building level+ (Brushed off being shot multiple times at point-blank range right in his vital points, has easily survived extremely high falls without fracturing his bones and has tanked massive explosions from cannonballs, exploding gunpowder barrels and grenades that easily destroyed massive stone beams, scaffoldings and huge portions of massive warships at the same time without any armor multiple times in a row, easily making him this durable at the very minimum, with the exact same barrels being used throughout the Kenway Saga. Is equals with Adéwalé. Should be on par with other Isu-Hybrids, who can hold their own against Olympos Projects, withstand bombs this powerful and tank cannonballs of these levels. Easily no-selled the defensive energy beams of the Observatory that can simultaneously vaporize upto three human beings at the slightest touch and reduce them to a bloody mist. Can withstand swivel gun shots, which can punch through the Mayan Armor's defenses)

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

People can argue the match if they want, but in my opinion this is a stomp if you carefully look through the profiles.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

When I was making the match, I was worried it was a stomp in arthurs favor, which made me extremely surprised to see this response. Arthurs weapons are far superior to anything edward has faced. Also, arthur's explosive ammo pierces and then explodes, so even if Edward would be able to survive the explosion if it was near him, he would not survive the bullet if it was already in his skull or something.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Explosion, cannonballs, grenades and energy strikes are not sharp weaponry

Arthur does have a chance here, not saying he'll win, however

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

Us dying to regular bullets and what not would completely the other durability feats he has shown, it should probably be treated as game mechanics in my opinion

I love Arthur way more than Edward, but I honestly don't see how he can win. But even if we assume he has some chance:

Attack Potency:

If Edward gets close, it is game over because of the AP difference. He's the better fighter, tactician with and without prep time, H2H combat, assassination techniques, etc.

Durability:

This shouldn't need to be explained. In a fist fight Arthur loses and he won't be able to harm him in the slightest. Sure, his explosives might pierce, but the likelyhood of that happening over every other win condition Edward had is extremely unlikely.

Hax:

The hax difference is self evident

Combat tactics:

Edward can dodge the bullets pretty easily and use his own weaponry and equipment. He is more than likely able to go for the kill quicker.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

> Edward can dodge the bullets pretty easily and use his own weaponry and equipment. He is more than likely able to go for the kill quicker.

" Capable of easily dodging gunshots from flintlocks and muskets " I don't believe I need to explain just how much faster Arthur's guns shoot compared to flintlocks and muskets, so saying edward would be able to dodge on reaction is absurd.

 

[GehrmanTheFirstHunter75]

It clearly depends on how the battle goes, if Edward decides to attempt a stealth kill first, he might have a hard time due to the combat taking place in the Forrest at the first place due to the rustlings of the leaves and the sound of the braches Arthur with easily get alerted.Gun shots from a much developed and advanced guns from the 1890's can do some respectable amount of damage to Edward Kenway.

Kenway has a much better chance if he decides not to stealth kill and do it face to face. Both contenders can use trees as cover. Edward might have a better chance this way due to his experience, he still needs to watch out though and be careful.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

I believe that his eagle eye and his natural battle instinct would be enough for him to take cover in the event Arthur went for something, and it's not like Edward is an idiot and would be in the line of fire straight away. His experience as an assassin is being heavily underestimated here.

Although, I do have to agree and disagree with @Gehrman

I think the battle taking place in the forrest would make stealth kill difficult, if he decides to go for it first, which, as an assassin, is a likely case, although, I disagree with the noise. IIRC most of the assassins can it hard to notice them despite noises and what not. Even with a notice, he should be in close quarters enough to assassinate Arthur, as Arthur won't have enough time to load up a gun, aim and shoot. Dead-Eye would be practically useless imo against Edward's level of perception resistance, and scaling from all the other assassins. Experience as Gehrman said is also a factor, and while Arthur isn't an idiot and underrated in his preperation, I'd say Edward takes the cake.

In this case I can see an inconclusive, but I am more inclined to stay with a stomp

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

The fight taking place in a forest full of animals could be a disadvantage to Arthur as well, since Arthur takes a couple seconds to scan footprints and tracks to determine what is it, while edward can do that instantly.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

Anyway, I can see an inconclusive, but in my opinion the chances of this being inconclusive is a 4/10 while Edward winning due to experience and better abilities, durability and AP, and H2H a 6/10 Edit: Also, I think a forrest benefits an assassin more than an outlaw, despite Arthur being well versed in fighting in these areas, Edward can use his surrondings to his advantage more effectively, that and Arthur could get cocky

I'm going to have to unsubscirbe from this thread as I'm working on other things, but if someone can message me on my wall when the thread reaches its conclusion would be great

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

Flintlocks can shoot at 300-350 m/s. Arthurs weapons has the ability to shoot 750 m/s. That is not counting high-velocity ammunition, which can make bullets shoot extremely faster. Saying the battle can either be inconclusive or a stomp is a huge margin.

 

[KLOL506]

Edward scales to other Isu-Hybrids in the series who are Supersonic+ and can dodge bullets much faster than ordinary flintlocks (Take Nikolai Orelov for example). Hell, even Arno dodges flintlock shots and he gets Supersonic+ values because simply moving away from the bullet ain't gonna cut it, you need to move further away from it. And most of the Assassins scale to Arno for being able to replicate the exact same feat as him. Or take Deadpool and Kazuma Kiryu for example (They dodge bullets from guns slower than Arthur's Winchester rifle yet they're Hypersonic because they cover waaaaaaaay more distance than the bullet itself).

Also bullets are insanely inconsistent in fiction so that really doesn't work, like Dante Demon Killah said. Just take Goku for example. He's 3-A but gets scraped by bullets even with his guard up. Or characters from Yakuza, they're blatantly 9-A in their feats and showings but bullets and knives literally bring them to their knees all the damn time. Just ask Kiryu and Kashiwagi.

Not only that, Edward already has the AP to casually one-shot. He's one of the highest 9-As on the site, and no, Edward is pretty blatantly superhuman even without the Shroud or Mayan Armor, being able to tank high falls, taking multiple gunshots and then coming back at you at full power, overpowering sharks and crocodiles and being able to literally go toe-to-toe against Sages of all things. Plus, Edward's Eagle Vision would ruin any chances of Arthur even landing a proper shot (Since, well, limited precog and resistance to having his perception altered thanks to Isu DNA). Plus, he has a higher lifting strength advantage due to being able to take crocodiles and sharks head-on.

Need I also remind you of the Minotaur and his 9-A axe?

And no, Edward doesn't have Low-Mid regen, he only has Mid-Low regen.

Oh, Therefir calc'd Arthur's explosives to be baseline 9-A. Not like this would matter because this would take waaaaaaaay too much time by which Arthur will already be dead.

 

[Schwxnz]

Uh, how is this fair, exactly? Arthur generally scales to one megajoule, whilst Edward scales to 1045.92 megajoules. Being 7.5× stronger than your opponent is already enough to one-shot.

Arthur's explosives are apparently baseline 9-A; aka 20.7 or so megajoules. He can't hurt Edward in the slightest.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

^

^

 

[KLOL506]

I should also mention that Edward gets struck with swivel cannons as well, which should be just as sharp, if not sharper than Arthur's bullets (AC3's swivel gun image can help you out with that), and Edward can take several of them at once with no glaring issues whatsoever.

All in all, this is a stomp no matter how hard you look at it.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

What KLOL and schwxnz said.

I mean I want Arthur to win, but he can't.

 

[KLOL506]

Honestly there's no way to make this fair.

Arthur gets into a place he's familiar with, he'll go in to snipe (Though Dead-Eye's aim is already nulled by Edward's resistance so eh) Edward when the latter's not in combat mode (That's how he mostly ends up getting shot anyhow). In this case the range has to be considerably lower.

Edward gets into a place he's familiar with (Like your forest with many animals) and he'll rip Arthur apart from the bushes being the stealth master he is and the fact that he has decades worth of experience exploring rainforests around the Caribbean (Something Arthur literally can't match, Assassins can literally move faster than normal human perception and can move around places withotu making a single sound). Range is gonna be irrelevant in this case.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

So you're saying if Arthur blew Edward's head off, he would still keep hauling ass towards Arthur no problem. Edward is still a human no matter how good his explosive resistance is, he has shown to be susceptible to piercing attacks, fodder ones at that. Chalking this up as gameplay mechanics is laughable, since they both have the same regen, and I equalized speed. Arthur has shown the ability to be able to outpace certain types of revolvers, which are the slowest shooting weapons in read dead. Anything else is impossible for Arthur to even percieve. The fact that edward has no regen, has shown the ability to get hurt by worse weaponry, would be able to rush at arthur while arthur is in dead eye mode with the Litchfield, empties 14 bullets into his head within a second, and edward would not only survive, but take no damage? Edward isn't a demigod with insane regen or anything, if he gets pierced by an object or has a limb blown off, he's done for.

 

[KLOL506]

That is absolutely not what I meant tho. Headshots would definitely kill Edward, but that's not what I meant either, what I meant is that Edward resists Perception Manipulation via his Isu genes and that would nullify Arthur's Dead Eye (Which falls under Perception Manipulation. AKA Arthur is gonna have an incredibly tough time getting a proper aim on Edward).

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

Even arthurs weakest pistols with regular ammo can blow humans skulls off with multiple bullets, and if Arthur pulls out fire ammo or explosive ammo on a shotgun, there is no way Edward is not going to take damage, nevertheless die.

 

[KLOL506]

Again, not what I am talking about. Headshots have killed plenty in the AC series before.

I'm talking about Arthur's Dead Eye being essentially rendered useless by Edward's resistance to Perception Manip, and with Arthur's trump card out of the window, he really won't stand up to Edward's sheer AP, lifting strength and combat experience advantage.

Also no way in hell is Edward gonna let it come to that since he's literally gonna stealth this through and strike from the bushes.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

Even if edward can survive a couple shots (which he definitely would as long as they aren't extremely fatal) arthur could quite literally riddle him with bullets at a rapid pace. Arthur in dead eye mode amplifies his speed massively, allowing him to shoot double digit numbers of bullets in a second. That is extremely dangerous to Edward, because he can't just run towards arthur in an open field. I made the contest in this certain way because both have similar abilities in situations like this. While edward has a clear advantage when it comes to tracking and such since he is able to see targets through walls, Arthurs Eagle eye slows down time to his perception, and allows him to sense danger as well.

 

[KLOL506]

Again, Edward's resistance to Perception Manip lolnopes Dead-Eye with Edward himself being able to detect danger with his Eagle Vision, and in a forest, Edward would literally have no need to run. At all. You're really underestimating how good Edward is with stealth and rainforests. Also Edward's taken shots to the stomach multiple times which would generally instantly kill others.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

Not to mention the forest is full of game, and the movements of animals would throw both off their senses because of the constant movement, and they would have to differentiate between the animals and the opponent. In that sense, edward does have an advantage, but arthur is no pushover in that regard either, even if it does take a couple seconds to determine which animal it is, he can instantly tell if it was a footprint.

 

[KLOL506]

Edward really doesn't have to diffrentiate tho, his Eagle Vision is instant and doesn't even hesitate to differentiate between friend to foe and animal to human.

And animal movement has literally never bothered Edward in the slightest. He's just that good.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

Yes, I did note edward would tank a couple shots no problem, Arthur has shown the ability to do so as well. I believe arthur's preparation is being severely underrated as well, since they both start 1 1/2 away from each other. Both can only walk while using Eagle Eye as well. Also, edward resisting Perception Manip doesn't really mean anything when arthur massively amplifies his speed as well, so if arthur starting shooting in Dead Eye mode, as I stated before Arthur can shoot double digit numbers in under a second. I'm not even defending Arthur saying he would win, I even said Edward would be at an advantage in this situation, I'm defending the fact that this isn't a stomp, since Arthur has at least once definite win con, not to mention multiple.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

So yes, if Edward is able to sneak up close enough to arthur, yes he wins since the AP advantage, arthur has nothing to combat him in H2H, ect. That will be hard since Arthur's perception and tracking abilities are not a pushover, and considering they are in a forest it's ver easy to make noise for the both of them. If edward isn't able to get close enough to arthur, considering Arthur's array of weapons at his disposal, Arthur wins because Edward has no way to combat Arthur effectively at mid to long ranges. Edward would have to use smoke bombs to get closer, but arthur would be able to see through them.

 

[KLOL506]

Not really, Edward has decades of experience exploring jungles and whatnot, he's a highly-skilled and veteran hunter himself and has given people older and more experienced than him a run for their money, and even other Assassins have fallen prey to Edward long before he himself became one. Plus, Edward is also considerably more versatile and knows very well how to use the environment to his advantage and is considerably more agile than Arthur is (Most of Arthur's targets don't really happen to be parkour masters of the sort). Forests aren't the only thing he's explored after all (He explored the Isu Temples previously visited by Ezio and Altair).

Edward can definitely get up to Arthur no problem, it'll be hard for him due to your reasonings, but he'll pull it off.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

The only thing I was pointing out as OP is that the fight isn't a stomp. The fight being a stomp means Arthur has no win con whatsoever, and Edward would be able to walk slowly towards Arthur while arthur empties all his weapons into him and throws all his dynamite and uses all ammo types, it wouldn't hurt Edward at all. Edward's durability doesn't make him invulnerable to all damage, he's only on tier above arthur in that regard.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

Now after viewing your calcs for AC and explosive resistance (which was really good btw) would arthurs dynamite throw Edward off balance? If so, then even if it doesn't hurt Edward at all, it would still be beneficial to arthur, but if it doesn't even move Edward at all, then Arthur's dynamite is useless in all regards.

 

[KLOL506]

No, they'd have to be powerful enough to blow up massive stone walls (Something on the level of blowing up a bridge would be needed). Even if they do Edward would recover way too quickly for comfort.