Arceus vs Cronus

[Reppuzan]

I don't really like Saint Seiya threads, but Cronus looks far more willing to resort to the big guns first. Plus, Arceus' shielding is pretty useless against something that bypasses conventional protection.

Plus, Cronus has more on-screen feats reflecting the use of his power due to his nature as a warrior. Thus I have to give my vote to him.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I've asked Azzy but he has yet to comment back just yet. As of now Cronus has this. From my conversation with Cal( head of Pokemon files.) he said Arceus should in fact be Acausual. This is what he said.

"Arceus is acausal. Celebi is acausal, and any time related abilities it can do, Dialga should be able to do, and you know that song and dance. It's just not worth mentioning on a tier 2 page because iirc you have to be acausal to be tier 2."

Dunno if this helps. I can't debate here so I won't say much.

 

[FateAlbane]

Yeah, Cronus seems to have a good number of solid reasons that would give him the win here. Also, the Megas Drepanon seems to be the icing on the cake, being a haxxed weapon in itself that adds up very well to Cronus own abilities.

I'll vote Cronus for this and the many reasons above.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

We are now in grace period.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Iirc Arceus has probability manipulation too via Lucky Chant or whatever gives it to him. Whats stopping him from just using that to prevent Cronus from immiedately going into the big stuff?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Iirc Arceus has probability manipulation too via Lucky Chant or whatever gives it to him. Whats stopping him from just using that to prevent Cronus from immiedately going into the big stuff?

Lucky Chant only stops critical hits...Game Mechanic based move only.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Implying Probability Manipulation would work against Cronus, freaking Athena has it and she's like an insect compared to him. Also Cronus can bypass durability and hit on the physical, astral and spiritual level with his attacks.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Lucky Chant only stops critical hits...Game Mechanic based move only.

I thought it was agreed here that Lucky Chant was perfectly acceptable as Probability Manipulating, not jusrt a game mechanic. And in this case if we treat Mega Drepanon as a "critical" hit due to some thinking it will one shot Arceus, then Lucky Chant should be able to stop it.

 

[FateAlbane]

Critical? It would be more on the "super effective" sort of thing. It's not like Cronus is getting a "woot, critical hit!" everytime he swings his weapon.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Critical? It would be more on the "super effective" sort of thing. It's not like Cronus is getting a "woot, critical hit!" everytime he swings his weapon.

That would be funny.

 

[Tivanenk]

What... does one hit KO have anything to do with critical hits?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

What... does one hit KO have anything to do with critical hits?

No. Critical hits ignore defense buffs and attack debuffs.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I'm about to post a lengthy response. Hmm...

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Implying Probability Manipulation would work against Cronus, freaking Athena has it and she's like an insect compared to him. Also Cronus can bypass durability and hit on the physical, astral and spiritual level with his attacks.

Athena is no where remotely close to Complete Arceus's level she is a Low 2C being. Arceus is now a Solid 2-B being and possibly higher (which is even higher than Cronus's tier since he's only listed as Likely 2-B.) And that logic of powerscaling off of hax doesnt help you and it can be used for Arceus as well since even low tier mons who can use lucky chant have the same hax in a way.

Yes but dont forget that Arceus is omnipresent and that his consciousness exists across all of Time and Space and was even born in total nothingness. Cronus's key victory to winning likely wont even kill him.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

^Speed is equalized for that very reason. If I didn't equalize speed it would be a speed stomp in Arceus' favor.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

He's listed as likely 2-B becase we don't know how big the Saint Seiya Multiverse is. It could be infinite and Cronus would basically be a Anti Monitor level being.

Speed is also equalized genius, Arceus' omnipresence doesn't matter.

 

[FateAlbane]

@Anime4Life2020 Cronus is a solid 2-B, not likely. Arceus is "possibly" higher and we can't work with that assumption that he is absurdly higher than Cronus here.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

^Speed is equalized for that very reason. If I didn't equalize speed it would be a speed stomp in Arceus' favor.

Oh right. So his omnipresence is basically given the cold shoulder here in this fight too?

 

[KazarianFahs]

How will time hax affect arceus in the first place? It's not a matter of raw power of that arceus's concept CREATION feats are cited it's for the fact that arceus has no need/exists OUTSIDE the concepts of time,will,knowledge,space etc etc etc(every physical and abstract concept that exists in the poke verse),he isn't affected by them

 

[Tivanenk]

Honestly, can I see the thread where Arceus was updated...? I just want to see the reasoning behind it.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

If you can't accept Speed being Equalized, you shouldn't be debating, you're just getting salty that you can't have your character stomp.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Yes for fairness reasons.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

That sarcasm was uncalled for, Matt...

I was really afraid that this thread was gonna come... No matter who I vote for, there's gonna be some major backlash. I'm gonna be perfectly honest. This is the hardest match I've ever voted on. And for once, I'm not sure if I'm gonna back Arceus. Not sure if I'll back Cronus, however. Alright. I'll explain what both have. After reading through Cronus' profile a lot, I've noticed that a TON of Cronus' abilities ignore durability. However, a lot of them are covered by the plate shields. Despite what anyone tells you, the plates are a powerful thing. And Arceus is likely stronger and more casual. Anything causality related would be moot, due to from what I've heard from an admin, all tier 2's should likely have it. However, most of what Arceus has, Cronus has. Tbh, the deciding factor would've been creating an army of the Creation Trio, but that's banned. If a few of Cronus' things get past the two sets of shields Arceus has automatically set up, then it would probably kill him. Also, time related abilities would be iffy too. Once controls the concept of time. One created it. So that ultimate attack that steals your time isn't gonna really affect Arceus. Not sure if Fate Manipulation would do anything either. Also, all of Cronus' soul related abilities would be rendered useless. Not only Plate Negation, but the fact that Arceus would be no stranger to soul related attacks. Cronus has a severe attack versatility advantage, while Arceus has a slight ability versatility advantage, given at the very least, Arceus' abilities guarantee to work, however little damage they do. But because the best offense is a good defense, I'll give the slight edge to Arceus. Plz don't hate on me for this decision...

One thing I'll say is that if this weren't bloodlusted, I'd give it to Cronus, due to Arceus not really displaying a lot of its hax in character.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Then when was Cronus upgraded to solid 2-B and why? He was only a Likely 2-B character before and there were even witnesses to this.

When did i say I couldnt accept speed being equal? I never had problems with Dragon equalizing it at all.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

As for this fight, I have a question or 2 for the OP.

But as far as not using the Creation trio, that doesnt mean Arceus cant create another Lake Trio or any other Pokemon to give him a numbers advantage right?

 

[EnderShadowr215]

@Anime Well I was checking the discussions on Cronus's profile page and here it is: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/391759

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Creating a lake trio would be a waste of time. The lake trio would get destroyed.

 

[FateAlbane]

@The real cal howard Sorry, but how is the hax with Megas Drepanon and pretty much everything Cronus has with durability negation simply not going to work when we're talking about a character who has powers in the same scale and ignoring durability on the same lvl as Arceus, coupled with hitting body, soul and life energy all at once (once again, BYPASSING durability)?

 

[FateAlbane]

Saying that the plates will no sell everything Cronus throws at Arceus is the same as completely ignoring that practically everything Cronus uses has durability negation coupled with it.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Bypassing durability. Not shields. If I put up a forcefield in front of Majin Buu trying to absorb me, or Rukia using her absolute zero attack I'd be safe. This is just that on a much, MUCH, greater scale. And all of those would fall under plates, considering how there's a ton of body, soul, and life attacks in Pokemon.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

@Anime Well I was checking the discussions on Cronus's profile page and here it is: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/391759

That thread was done a while ago though and Cronus's profile since then was only upgraded to Likely 2-B. Even Matt admitted he was listed as just that, not a solid 2-B. I dont have a problem with it im just wondering what the reasoning was. Was it that they just forgot to put it in?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Saying that the plates will no sell everything Cronus throws at Arceus is the same as completely ignoring that practically everything Cronus uses has durability negation coupled with it.

He didn't say everything. Just said most.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Creating a lake trio would be a waste of time. The lake trio would get destroyed.

Dragon I have a question for you as the OP of this thread.

 

[EnderShadowr215]

@Anime It is possible.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Creating a lake trio would be a waste of time. The lake trio would get destroyed.

Dragon I have a question for you as the OP of this thread.

Unless it has to do with shifting the rules then yes.

 

[KazarianFahs]

@The real cal howard Sorry, but how is the hax with Megas Drepanon and pretty much everything Cronus has with durability negation simply not going to work when we're talking about a character who has powers in the same scale and ignoring durability on the same lvl as Arceus, coupled with hitting body, soul and life energy all at once (once again, BYPASSING durability)?

Let's say i have a gun that destroys the heart,it's instant and it's not projectile based,whatever i point it at and pull the trigger,gets it's heart instantly destroyed,i can kill blue whales and elephants and a lots of things with it,but i'd struggle with insects and jellyfishes etc,because they don't have hearts(more specifically jellyfishes).Same way cronus's time hax,attacks time and manipulates time,arceus simply exists outside of time,he was there before even the concept of time existed,same way, a lot of other cronus's hax depends on pre created concepts,while cronus is in the same tier as arceus,arceus has created a lot of concepts that cronus uses,and the fact that arceus existed before he created the said concepts implies that arceus is not bound by those concepts since he has no need of them and existed before the concepts were concepts.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Creating a lake trio would be a waste of time. The lake trio would get destroyed.

Dragon I have a question for you as the OP of this thread.

Unless it has to do with shifting the rules then yes.

Oh no its something else. For Arceus's hax and techniques in this fight are we only allowed to use the ones listed on his profile? Or can we use any Poke move since his profile notes Arceus likely has access to all moves and abilities in Pokemon but its up to the thread's OP to allow them in or not.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

... Wait, you guys determined that Pokémon is 2-B because of the amount of games sold? The hell is that.

 

[FateAlbane]

And all of those would fall under plates, considering how there's a ton of body, soul, and life attacks in Pokemon.

Sorry, but even the Megas Drepanon description says it Bypasses defenses and, hits yada yada all that, ignoring even the distance between the opponents. I don't see how it wouldn't just ignore/bypass said shield and plates and go straight for Arceus when it was bypassing things like the Gold Cloth too, IIRC. That's where I'm getting at.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I'll answer that. We can only use the stuff on his profile.