Arceus Hax

[HokageKirby161]

OK, we've had so many threads like this, but I feel like we missed a lot of hax for Arceus still. Like:

Life Draining - via Giga Drain

Weather Manipulation - via Rain Dance, Hail, Sunny Day, and Sandstorm

Afterimage - via Double Team

Light Manipulation - via Flash

Dream Manipulation - via Dream Eater & created Darkrai and Cresselia, who can manipulate dreams and nightmares.

Solar Manipulation - via Solar Beam

Decoy Creation - via Substitute

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Shoudnt Arceus have something like Victory Manipulation now that I think about it? He did create Victini afterall, whos the literal concept of Victory

Also Light and Dark manipulation should be justified by him creating the Tao trio who represent Yin, Yang, Yin-Yang, etc.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Should have Acausality/Causality Manipulation through Celebi scaling.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

The relationship Arceus has with the other Legendary Pokemon other than the Creation and Lake Trio is unknown.

We've already noted that it has every ability known in the Pokemon verse. Abilities that can be gained by scaling from those not noted to be its direct creation (since they are canonically referred to as parts of it) directly fall under this. It's up to the OP to allow the usage of these uncharacteristic abilities or not.

Please, stop attempting to clutter the profiles of this wiki with non-canon information.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Only reason I brought up Celebi was because Dialga>>>>>Celebi canonically (mystery dungeon), and Celebi is acausal.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Should have Acausality/Causality Manipulation through Celebi scaling.

I don't think powerscaling works like that.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Ever. I more meant that whatever time related abilities Celebi has, Dialga should possess, and Dialga is a direct creation of Arceus.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

Shoudnt Arceus have something like Victory Manipulation now that I think about it? He did create Victini afterall, whos the literal concept of Victory
Also Light and Dark manipulation should be justified by him creating the Tao trio who represent Yin, Yang, Yin-Yang, etc.

Nah, that's reaching. To have such a sophisticated hax you need proper showing. TTLG has demonstated probability manipulation extensively on panel. Arceus can't win every fight because he created Victini (who himself can't win every fight)

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

You can't be immeasurable without being Acausal. You probably don't need to scale to Celebi as Dialga and Palkia have their own acausal feats.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Oh. Then other than causality manipulation (which probably doesn't need to be said anyway), my arguments are done.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Shoudnt Arceus have something like Victory Manipulation now that I think about it? He did create Victini afterall, whos the literal concept of Victory
Also Light and Dark manipulation should be justified by him creating the Tao trio who represent Yin, Yang, Yin-Yang, etc.

Nah, that's reaching. To have such a sophisticated hax you need proper showing. TTLG has demonstated probability manipulation extensively on panel. Arceus can't win every fight because he created Victini (who himself can't win every fight)

IIRC the pokedex entry and lore states absolute victory is given to those with Victini's power, not Victini himself. Like when Tepig one shotted Samurott or Scraggy one shotted Hydreigon with Victini's shared power. Nothing states that Victini itself wins all the time, just those who it shares it's power with.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

IIRC the pokedex entry and lore states absolute victory is given to those with Victini's power, not Victini himself. Like when Tepig one shotted Samurott or Scraggy one shotted Hydreigon with Victini's shared power. Nothing states that Victini itself wins all the time, just those who it shares it's power with.

Still not a feat, and it sound very much like a hyperbole. Generally victory manipulation and complex hax like that are given to characters with enough showings after scrutiny.

 

[HokageKirby161]

What about my list of hax?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

IIRC the pokedex entry and lore states absolute victory is given to those with Victini's power, not Victini himself. Like when Tepig one shotted Samurott or Scraggy one shotted Hydreigon with Victini's shared power. Nothing states that Victini itself wins all the time, just those who it shares it's power with.

Still not a feat, and it sound very much like a hyperbole. Generally victory manipulation and complex hax like that are given to characters with enough showings after scrutiny.
But with our rules towards Pokedex statements Victini is a mythical/legendary Pokemon and thus it should be perfectly usuable to use. Is there anything Victini has shown to make it hyperole material?

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

But with our rules towards Pokedex statements Victini is a mythical/legendary Pokemon and thus it should be perfectly usuable to use. Is there anything Victini has shown to make it hyperole material?
We have been very generous towards pokemon. Other verses are scrutinized extremely harshly. TTLG has statements of 11th dimension yet it's stuck on 2C. But really, we need feats from Arceus himself for this hax, victory manipulation is a conceptual hax which shouldn't be given without feats. Scaling isn't good enough (this is tier 2 where a single conceptual ability can result in win or loss)

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Faisal is right. I love Arceus too, and Pkmn as a whole, but we've gotten pretty generous to Pokemon. This might be too much.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I see what your saying but thats like saying Arceus doesnt have emotion or willpower manipulation since we've never seen him use it, only Azelf and Uxie at best. Arceus is the one who created them and gave them their abilities, with Victini being of the same caliber. We obviously would never see Arceus using Victory Manipulation as why would he resort to using something so uneccesary against beings who he can one shot in an instant? If he created them, and gave them their roles and powers, then shouldnt he have the ability himself without ever having a concrete reason to use as such?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

That's the thing. Only 6 pokemon were direct creations of Arceus. The rest were a byproduct of Dialga/Palkia, and eventually Mew. It would be too much speculation to say that Arceus directly created victory for kicks and giggles.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

You got a point....tho werent all the other legendaries besides the Creation and Lake trio's came to be from what Arceus conjured up?

Or if Dialga/Palkia simply made them when creating the Multiverse, then whats illoigical about saying their creator can do the same thing? There's really nothing Dialga and Palkia can do that Arceus cant do and better......is there?

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

I see what your saying but thats like saying Arceus doesnt have emotion or willpower manipulation since we've never seen him use it, only Azelf and Uxie at best. Arceus is the one who created them and gave them their abilities, with Victini being of the same caliber. We obviously would never see Arceus using Victory Manipulation as why would he resort to using something so uneccesary against beings who he can one shot in an instant? If he created them, and gave them their roles and powers, then shouldnt he have the ability himself without ever having a concrete reason to use as such?

This is vsbattles wiki, our intention is to index abilities which are useful in battle. Victory manipulation is a very serious hax that affects concept like victory (Example: You kill me in a fight yet I win, for no reason). In tier 2C this kind of ability can make or break deal in a match. That's why it should not be included without explicit showing. The pokemon with control of willpower and emotions (mesprit and azelf) are all tier 2 themselves. Victini isn't tier 2.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Right but doesnt Arceus already have conceptual manipulation over all concepts in the verse?

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Well, Arceus isn't quite as cool looking.

By the way, Palkia breathing and space expanding is probably an example of causality manipulation...but just like conceptual manipulation the ability isn't added unless it's considered hax, or, at least useable against other beings of that level. Hm. We can always add that it's not applicable to combat.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

Right but doesnt Arceus already have conceptual manipulation over all concepts in the verse?

In theory- yes. Practice- no. In tier 2 and above we strictly go by feats that has been demonstrated by character or is stated to be able for vs matches. Not just powerscaling. Scaling hax (especially serious conceptual hax like victory manipulation) is a very, very bad idea.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Oh okay. Alright then I concede. Just got confused a bit. My bad if I was causing any trouble.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

Oh okay. Alright then I concede. Just got confused a bit. My bad if I was causing any trouble.

No problem. if you're interested in higher dimensional characters (2C and up) you can read the vs matches between the characters on various online forums. That will give you an idea how hax is used in those fights. A few good, well defined hax with decent amount of showings is enough to smash a character in the same tier with 100 average hax with little/no showings. Quality > quantity.

 

[HokageKirby161]

What about the original post?

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

Everything is fine except solar manipulaation. Solar beam is just an energy beam which falls under energy manipulation. Having too many similar abilties on the profile would be redundant

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Wait could Shadow Force be useful to have on his profile? If so what would that be?

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

Wait could Shadow Force be useful to have on his profile? If so what would that be?

shadow manipulation like shikamaru

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Kk. And is the Light and Darkness manipulation still legit because reasons?