Pokemon - Arceus Downgrade

[Sniper670]

Then I guess we can give Maou Gakuin low 1C and beyond because 2A structures are seperate from each other

It doesn't work like that

 

[ImmortalDread]

That's legit the requirement for being Low 1-C though. So yes, it is a higher dimension by the standard of the site. If you want, you can make a CRT about the standards of tier 1 if you disagree.


Like seriously dude, if this is about the plates revision stuff, then just stop.

I wanna see this requirement pls.

 

[y3p_owo]

Yes we do?????? Imao

We... literally haven't. Like, we still use author statements, as long as they don't contradict.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Then I guess we can give Maou Gakuin low 1C and beyond because 2A structures are seperate from each other

It doesn't work like that

Frrrr, we can now get low 1-A for using author statement as well

 

[ImmortalDread]

We... literally haven't. Like, we still use author statements, as long as they don't contradict.

Naw, I wanna see this. Because of this, we could not upgrade any verse. Stop claiming without any evidence. The wiki never used author statements for evidence.

 

[Sniper670]

Yes we do?????? Imao

Actually Author statements can be used

Statements

Regarding how to gauge the reliability of statements about characters. The answer depends on the person saying it. Let's make a hypothetical example. "The Green Knight is stated in-universe to be invincible. So far, he has taken every single attack thrown at him on the chin and either picked...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[y3p_owo]

I wanna see this requirement pls.

For being Tier 1:
"Characters who can significantly affect spaces of qualitatively greater sizes than ordinary universal models and spaces, usually represented in fiction by higher levels or states of existence (Or "levels of infinity", as referred below) which trivialize everything below them into insignificance, normally by perceiving them as akin to fictional constructs or something infinitesimal."

For Low 1-C:
"Characters who can affect, create and/or destroy the entirety of spaces whose size corresponds to one to two higher levels of infinity greater than a standard universal model (Low 2-C structures, in plain English.) In terms of "dimensional" scale, this can be equated to 5 and 6-dimensional real coordinate spaces (R ^ 5 to R ^ 6)"

 

[ImmortalDread]

Actually Author statements can be used

Statements

Regarding how to gauge the reliability of statements about characters. The answer depends on the person saying it. Let's make a hypothetical example. "The Green Knight is stated in-universe to be invincible. So far, he has taken every single attack thrown at him on the chin and either picked...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Ya look what I found

Note: Please remember that character and narrative statements tend to use flowery language and exaggerate to certain degrees. Without any further context to clarify, statements such as characters being “beyond space-time” or especially omnipotent statements are not enough to suggest upgrades. When reviewing a statement for potential upgrades, be sure to keep this in mind.

Fits perfectly here

 

[y3p_owo]

Then I guess we can give Maou Gakuin low 1C and beyond because 2A structures are seperate from each other

It doesn't work like that

Then make a CRT about it then.

 

[ImmortalDread]

For being Tier 1:
"Characters who can significantly affect spaces of qualitatively greater sizes than ordinary universal models and spaces, usually represented in fiction by higher levels or states of existence (Or "levels of infinity", as referred below) which trivialize everything below them into insignificance, normally by perceiving them as akin to fictional constructs or something infinitesimal."

For Low 1-C:
"Characters who can affect, create and/or destroy the entirety of spaces whose size corresponds to one to two higher levels of infinity greater than a standard universal model (Low 2-C structures, in plain English.) In terms of "dimensional" scale, this can be equated to 5 and 6-dimensional real coordinate spaces (R ^ 5 to R ^ 6)"

Being beyond time and space is not Low-1C. Please stop this. This become hilarious

 

[Sniper670]

Ya look what I found

Fits perfectly here

You missed this

A character CAN be upgraded by word of mouth alone. You just have to double check to see by how much, as well as:

• If the source of the statement is reliable?
• If the statement conflicts with the story or feats of the character?
• If the statement is only valid in the context of its setting, or if it holds up in comparison with other settings?

 

[ImmortalDread]

You missed this

Are you telling me this source is so reliable?

 

[Sniper670]

Are you telling me this source is so reliable?

I don't care for this. This isn't low 1C

If anything at all is low 1C, it's that the multiverse exist inside the Spirit, which is Mind.

Basically the cosmology is merely a mental thing

 

[ImmortalDread]

Seems something wrong with this character tier

 

[Sniper670]

Really wrong.

 

[y3p_owo]

I don't care for this. This isn't low 1C

If anything at all is low 1C, it's that the multiverse exist inside the Spirit, which is Mind.

Basically the cosmology is merely a mental thing

Except it is. Being beyond/above the infinite time and space of an infinite multiverse means that it's above a level of infinity. It's literally infinitely greater than the standard structure of being Low 2-C, which is the requirement of being Low 1-C.

If you disagree with it, then make a CRT to change the reasoning for Low 1-C.

 

[Dereck03]

Except it is. Being beyond/above the infinite time and space of an infinite multiverse means that it's above a level of infinity. It's literally infinitely greater than the standard structure of being Low 2-C, which is the requirement of being Low 1-C.

If you disagree with it, then make a CRT to change the reasoning for Low 1-C.

Wait... Mind explaining this? You're saying cus its greater/large than a 2-A structure then it's low 1-C?

 

[Sniper670]

Except it is. Being beyond/above the infinite time and space of an infinite multiverse means that it's above a level of infinity. It's literally infinitely greater than the standard structure of being Low 2-C, which is the requirement of being Low 1-C.

Where did you get this idea from. And that's just false.

A space isolated from a 2A structure doesn't make it low 1C, 5D or Higher Dimensional . It's range.

If you disagree with it, then make a CRT to change the reasoning for Low 1-C.

There's nothing to disagree on. It's you who don't understand how tier 1 works

 

[ImmortalDread]

Except it is. Being beyond/above the infinite time and space of an infinite multiverse means that it's above a level of infinity. It's literally infinitely greater than the standard structure of being Low 2-C, which is the requirement of being Low 1-C.

If you disagree with it, then make a CRT to change the reasoning for Low 1-C.

Where did you get infinite time and space except the author? Is there any source than this? Because I think this is just flowery langauge

 

[Sniper670]

It's not flowery. The author actually stressed on this multiple times. Also mentioned in the games

This Pokémon is feared as a deity in Hisuian legend. The birth of Palkia was what caused the walls of our world to disappear, creating a sky that spans for infinity.

The flow of time never stops... The past, future, and present... “Space is ever-expanding dimensions... Our spirits, too, are as space...”

Plus, every possibility branches out into its own universe continuously. Every dream is another reality, every copy of the game is its own 2A structure. And there are millions of them
So yes it does fit the standards for statements

• If the source of the statement is reliable?
• If the statement conflicts with the story or feats of the character?

 

[y3p_owo]

Wait... Mind explaining this? You're saying cus its greater/large than a 2-A structure then it's low 1-C?

Ok so, since it's above something that's effectively infinite, it means that it's above a level of infinity. Being above a level of infinity is the reasoning for being Tier 1. To be Low 1-C, it has to be at least infinitely greater than the model of a standard universe, which is Low 2-C. And seeing as the realm is above the infinite time and space of the Pokémon verse, it's safe to say that it's above the model of a standard universe.

So yes, I am saying because it's greater/above the structure of a infinite multiverse, which is effectively a level of infinity, that it's Low 1-C

Where did you get this idea from. And that's just false.

A space isolated from a 2A structure doesn't make it low 1C, 5D or Higher Dimensional . It's range.

It's literally comes from the explanation for being Tier 1.

Where did you get infinite time and space except the author? Is there any source than this? Because I think this is just flowery langauge

In the interview, Masuda explains that what he wanted with for Diamond and Pearl was for it's theme to be 'ultimate'. And in said ultimate he explains that he wants there to be a sense of balance between everything and that the relationship between the Pokémon in Sinnoh's mythology is it's key, so effectively he's saying that balance is the ultimate to him. He also says that he wanted Dialga and Palkia to be counterparts for the balance. He then ends it by saying that to him, the ultimate is infinite time and infinite space. Which yeah, is the ultimate balance-

So for the tl;dr
Masuda wanted Sinnoh to be about being the ultimate. To be the ultimate, there has to be balance. And the balance is that both time and space are infinite. Not only that, but it's the ultimate.
So seeing as Diamond and Pearl's themes are about the ultimate balance, there's no real reason for it to be just flowery language.

Also if want, there's a blog explaining the cosmology of the Pokémon verse, which is accepted by the site, and it explains said statement in there and other statements about the verse being infinite.

It's not flowery. The author actually stressed on this multiple times. Also mentioned in the games


Plus, every possibility branches out into its own universe continuously. Every dream is another reality, every copy of the game is its own 2A structure. And there are millions of them
So yes it does fit the standards for statements

• If the source of the statement is reliable?
• If the statement conflicts with the story or feats of the character?

^ Also this.

(Damn, I took a while to post this-)

 

[ImmortalDread]

It's not flowery. The author actually stressed on this multiple times. Also mentioned in the games


Plus, every possibility branches out into its own universe continuously. Every dream is another reality, every copy of the game is its own 2A structure. And there are millions of them
So yes it does fit the standards for statements

• If the source of the statement is reliable?
• If the statement conflicts with the story or feats of the character?

So infinite space and time will give you any tier???

 

[Sniper670]

No. That's just low 2C.

 

[Dereck03]

Ok so, since it's above something that's effectively infinite, it means that it's above a level of infinity. Being above a level of infinity is the reasoning for being Tier 1. To be Low 1-C, it has to be at least infinitely greater than the model of a standard universe, which is Low 2-C. And seeing as the realm is above the infinite time and space of the Pokémon verse, it's safe to say that it's above the model of a standard universe.

So yes, I am saying because it's greater/above the structure of a infinite multiverse, which is effectively a level of infinity, that it's Low 1-C

I literally reject that kinda stuffs here. And knowledgeable staffs agree with me.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Ya, I actually agree with downgrade, he is making some sense right now.

 

[y3p_owo]

I literally reject that kinda stuffs here. And knowledgeable staffs agree with me.

Well, damn.

I mean there's other evidence for Low 1-C on Arceus' page besides that, but still damn.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Well, damn.

I mean there's other evidence for Low 1-C on Arceus' page besides that, but still damn.

Give me it. Let's see

 

[Sniper670]

This is the only way Arceus will be low 1C. If this doesn't qualify, then downgrade him

The space-time cosmology is a result of cognition manifesting from inside the Heart and does complement the notion of superiority over/being beyond the structure of space-time

 

[ImmortalDread]

This is the only way Arceus will be low 1C. If this doesn't qualify, then downgrade him

Lets see. Dang, I never knew he got low 1-C in that method lmfao

 

[PrinceofPein]

What's been proposed exactly?
Cause I feel like what is been said in the thread is different from the OP

 

[ImmortalDread]

What's been proposed exactly?
Cause I feel like what is been said in the thread is different from the OP

Ok so, since it's above something that's effectively infinite, it means that it's above a level of infinity. Being above a level of infinity is the reasoning for being Tier 1. To be Low 1-C, it has to be at least infinitely greater than the model of a standard universe, which is Low 2-C. And seeing as the realm is above the infinite time and space of the Pokémon verse, it's safe to say that it's above the model of a standard universe.

So yes, I am saying because it's greater/above the structure of a infinite multiverse, which is effectively a level of infinity, that it's Low 1-C

 

[y3p_owo]

Give me it. Let's see

Well there's the God that transcends everything statement I showed you.

Then there's the statement that everything, like time and space, is nothing more than mere aspects of it's true self and it being conscious across all time and space.
(The former is kinda small and a bit difficult to read, so to hopefully help, I'll say what it says:
"Having taken back the plates, Arceus created those 3, Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina. This is the very reason why it's benefitting as the Creation Pokémon. It was said that these three were released into the world as a part of Arceus during the beginning of the world.")

It being above the likes of the Distortion World, which lacks time and direction.

And above the likes of Palkia, who's controls and has access to all parallel dimensions and direction.

And they should be superior to all of the Creation Trios' spaces, which includes the Distortion World, as they created it in the first place. And speaking of which, the Creation Trios' spaces should be their true forms themselves.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Well there's the God that transcends everything statement I showed you.

This is a flowery language. So no. Show me another statement because Rimuru could also be low 1-C due to the same literal statement with no further details.

 

[Dereck03]

What's been proposed exactly?
Cause I feel like what is been said in the thread is different from the OP

pain-sama, please bless me and step on me if ya want.

 

[y3p_owo]

This is a flowery language. So no. Show me another statement because Rimuru could also be low 1-C due to the same literal statement with no further details.

Seeing as it's realm is above the infinite multiverse of the verse, which is basically the everything in question, it's not really that much of flowery language.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Seeing as it's realm is above the infinite multiverse of the verse, which is basically the everything in question, it's not really that much of flowery language.

It literally only says “God transcends all” without any further detail after this.

 

[y3p_owo]

The further detail is Arceus/Original Spirit's realm in Legends Arceus. It's supporting evidence for that statement.

 

[Sniper670]

Well there's the God that transcends everything statement I showed you.

Then there's the statement that everything, like time and space, is nothing more than mere aspects of it's true self and it being conscious across all time and space.
(The former is kinda small and a bit difficult to read, so to hopefully help, I'll say what it says:
"Having taken back the plates, Arceus created those 3, Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina. This is the very reason why it's benefitting as the Creation Pokémon. It was said that these three were released into the world as a part of Arceus during the beginning of the world.")

It being above the likes of the Distortion World, which lacks time and direction.

And above the likes of Palkia, who's controls and has access to all parallel dimensions and direction.

And they should be superior to all of the Creation Trios' spaces, which includes the Distortion World, as they created it in the first place. And speaking of which, the Creation Trios' spaces should be their true forms themselves.

All this exists inside the Spirit

That's right, I think that the world started at the same instant the spirit started budding.

Yes! Inside the spirit space and time were blended together, and Pokémon and people were the same thing...

When the spirit sprouted, the world was created... When the spirit grew up, space, time were born..

The multiverse is the representation of the Spirit.

I guess you could think that this kind of world was a representation of the spirit of the Pokémon who created it!

The Spirit/Heart is beyond Space and time.

 

[Sniper670]

The further detail is Arceus/Original Spirit's realm in Legends Arceus. It's supporting evidence for that statement.

When we say Arceus transcends everything, it doesn't apply to his dimension but the being that is being referred to as transcendent

 

[Sniper670]

Anyway. If the multiverse is in your mind, that's low 1C no?