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Arceus Low 1-C Hax Upgrade

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Refer to the title, and yes we are doing this again, with an actual argument this time to use.

Recently, Arceus was upgraded to Low 1-C in this thread. However, his hax hasn’t been given the same treatment due to not having sufficient justifications for why his abilities would scale to his dimensionality and be considered Low 1-C. Until now that is. Giving an actual argument on why the hax should scale, the answers I have are actually pretty simple. First things first, here’s something referenced in the thread where Arceus got upgraded to Low 1-C in the first place. The Eternal Battle Reviere.

Eternal Battle Reviere

Basically, as I mentioned in the earlier Low 1-C thread, this is a game mode in Legends Arceus where Arceus summons you again to its realm to challenge you in fights. You can fight anything from wild Pokémon to even using your own Arceus against “Arceus’ Arceus”, and it showcased even multiple versions of the Creation Trio existing at the same time, confirming completely that they use avatars to interact with the multiverse. This was even said in the game itself, where Arceus has given to the MC a part of itself as a reward for completing the mission Arceus has originally gave to them when it “isekai’d” them to Hisui, and the dex’s requirement to complete Arceus’ page (here's the clip where I took the screenshot) just repeats this even more.

The important point here from this to focus on is the fact, that, since Arceus is able to bring you to his dimension to have battles against you with “his own Arceus”, and throws against us anything from wild Pokémon to the Creation Trio to battle against inside his dimension too, that means that Arceus’s powers, and Pokémon powers, are able to be used and operate inside his dimension, which is accepted as a 5-D realm as of now.

This should be helpful evidence to help suffice the idea that Arceus’s hax scales to his dimensionality since he’s bringing you to his dimension to battle against him, and the moves used by his avatars, the Creation Trio and otherwise, can work inside his dimension. And we all know the kind of moves the former 3’s attacks and moves have that can effect things like time and space, such as Roar of Time and Spatial Rend.

Of course, fighting inside his dimension isn’t all there is here, as better evidence is coming on top of this next.

The Legend Plate

In addition to the above about his dimeneion, Legends also gives us something called the Legend Plate, where this inscription is stated on the plate itself:

“From all creations, over all creations, does the Original One watch over all."

And here, the important part, is the description of what the plate is:

“A stone tablet imbued with the essence of all creation. When used on a certain Pokémon, it allows that Pokémon to gain the power of every type there is.”

It’s as said. The Legend Plate outright states that all of creation's essence is imbued into it, granting the powers of all Pokémon types. This is important, because we all already know the relationship between that of all Pokémon powers and types, and Arceus’s type plates, with the plates being the source of where Pokémon powers originated from in the first place.

With Pokémon powers originating from Arceus’s plates and all of creation being an aspect of the legend plate, this should also strongly support the notion that Arceus’s abilities scales to his dimension when “all creation” should of course take Arceus’s own dimension into account as well with the rest of the Pokémon Cosmology. In other words, Arceus’s dimension being an aspect of the legend plate like the rest of the cosmology helps to establish Pokémon powers and Arceus’s own dimension having a correlation.

Going even deeper, with the most important part of the evidence I have here that ties everything together, there’s supporting feats with Arceus actually affecting his own dimension as well.

Jewel of Life

This case should get even stronger if we use Jewel of Life and other anime details as more additional evidence for the argument.

While sleeping inside of it, Arceus explicitly effects his own dimension by not only shaking it, but also distorting it with space-time distortions with the energy he gave off (and that was Weakened Arceus with him missing plates at that)



His Avatar reabsorbs the energy given off to distort his dimension



Same thing happens in the manga version of Jewel of Life (and let the record reflect, Sheena here even calls it dimensional energy)

IMG_0902.jpg



The back of the DVD box for Jewel of Life even cites that Arceus was going to “devastate all existence” across multiple dimensions

IMG_0797.webp


Those dimensions obviously including his own and the Creation Trios.

Now, his energy being able to effect his own dimension is an important detail that helps us, because we know that Arceus’s own power is related to the type plates his Avatar wields. The plates being where all Pokémon powers in the verse originate from.

And we know the plates are associated with Arceus’s own energy since:

The Jewel of Life, which Arceus’s power flows out of to fertilize the land of Michina Town, is literally made up of 5 of his plates combined

3 of Arceus’s plates were used by Ghris in Clash of Ages, as 3 great abundant forces of nature, to create Hoopa's Prison Bottle

Arceus’s Flame Plate was used in an attempt by Team Galactic to release energy to not only affect space-time to continue their plans of making a new world, but the released energy from the plate created Heatrans new form to cause it to go berserk.

So, henceforth, we know Arceus’s plates wield power that would be his own since they're aspects of him, and with his power being capable of effecting his own dimension to such a casual degree, his powers would have a direct correlation with his dimension.

So, to recap on what we know here:

-We know Arceus can have battles against us inside his dimension with himself and other Pokémon, including the creation trio; we know Pokémon powers, some of which have effects such as effecting space-time like the Creation Trios abilities do, can operate inside Arceus’s realm.

-We know Arceus possesses all of creations essence as an aspect of himself with his plates, where all Pokémon powers in the first place originate from, and all of creation would include his own dimension too

-We know Arceus can, and has casually and blatantly demonstrated, effect his own dimension with distortions made by his power; power, aka “dimensional energy”, that he can reabsorb as well.

-We know there’s a relationship between Arceus’s plates and his power, as things like the Jewel of Life, the Prison Bottle, and Heatrans berserker form displayed to us

Taking all of these details and evidences into account, the result at the end of the day, should be, that Arceus’s abilities scale to his dimensionality, and are thus Low 1-C.

And without further a due, let’s discuss

Staff Agreement (3): @Maverick_Zero_X , @CloverDragon03, @Psychomaster35

Staff Disagreement (1): @DontTalkDT


Agree (17): @Thelastmlg, @ActuallySpaceMan, @JooCipher, @Yemma670, @Pikaman, @Arceus0x, @Zencha9, @Purmeenant, @The_Pink_God, @Deceived, @Tago238, @ZetaMarishi, @Zeifyl, @Ego, @y3p_owo, @Gilad_Hyperstar, @theultimate5105

Neutral:

Disagree:
 
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The pokemon we fight on arceus' dimension are his own? If so, it should work then.

I agree with the rest as well, i think the plates are really the main point, and they seem to work fine.

Just to be clear, this actually proves that avatar arceus has low 1-C hax, which in turn means true arceus upscales.

And it's avatar having low 1-C hax is not inconsistent as he never failed to affect anything with his hax, if he did it was probably an outlier or PIS, this will not affect his AP as the energy stuff was hax.
 

Sniper670

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The pokemon we fight on arceus' dimension are his own? If so, it should work then.
Yup. He brought you there and fights you there.
Just to be clear, this actually proves that avatar arceus has low 1-C hax, which in turn means true arceus upscales.
Arceus literally had to shave down his existence just to interact with the cosmology.
Tbh the only thing proven qualitatively superior to the verse is his True Form. Who literally still needs his avatar to interact with even his 5D realm. Lol
And it's avatar having low 1-C hax is not inconsistent as he never failed to affect anything with his hax, if he did it was probably an outlier or PIS, this will not affect his AP as the energy stuff was hax.
He's literally imbued with the essence of all creation.
It was extremely silly to downplay him anyway. Lol
 

Everything12

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Fighting in a 5-D Realm does not scale your power to said realm. The realm is also specifically mentioned as outside space and time, which are big reasons it was accepted as 5-D. So arguing that Roar of Time and Spatial Rend are effecting the realm's space and time raises questions.

Any proof that all of creation includes the 5-D Realm, and isn't just assumption? Any proof that the realm Arceus' avatar was in, that was being observed by a device by humans on Earth, is the same as the 5-D realm outside space and time?

So basically I disagree, your evidence just feels to flimsy and full of assumptions.
 
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Fighting in a 5-D Realm does not scale your power to said realm. The realm is also specifically mentioned as outside space and time, which are big reasons it was accepted as 5-D. So arguing that Roar of Time and Spatial Rend are effecting the realm's space and time raises questions.
The creation trio being there is because Arceus allows it, just like the player being allowed there in the first place is because of him. How does that raise questions?
Any proof that all of creation includes the 5-D Realm, and isn't just assumption?
“All creation”

I don’t think I need to explain how it’s not speculation to think everything would be included when the literal words are right there…….

And why in the world would Arceus’s own dimension NOT be included as a part of all creation? You know, something HE made? Your question here doesn’t make any sense.
Any proof that the realm Arceus' avatar was in, that was being observed by a device by humans on Earth, is the same as the 5-D realm outside space and time?
Again, what kind of question is this? We know humans in Pokémon are able to observe the activity of what goes on in different universes and dimensions, even humans being capable of communicating with Arceus himself. This information isn’t anything new here.

And there is absolutely no reason to consider Jewel of life’s dimension “Different” from what Legends gives us. That rises to a whole new level of speculation without evidence for it whatsoever just purely out of skepticism.
 
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Additionally Arceus' dimension is consistently portrayed the same way throughout games and anime, being it's own cosmos in which only Arceus exists.
 

Sniper670

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Can you actually provide evidence against that besides "I don't see why Arceus hax should scale for the above reasons "??????

His argument has already been refuted
 
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Just because a response has been made =/= the argument has been debunked
It’s not an actual argument when the only points are asking for evidence for things that are, quite frankly, self explanatory

I’m still waiting on an answer on how ALL of creation, something Arceus made…doesn’t include another of his own creation.
 
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That is your opinion, other people have a different opinion. People on this forum need to learn that opinions are subjective, not objective, and that the end of the day we are simply discussing interpretations of another person's works.
i get it, but your interpretation is based on skepticism while our opinion is based on a blatant statement and consistency across media.
 

Hasty12345

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To be frank, afaik Pokemon hasn't got a UES or equivalent, the only way I see Low 1-C hax being accepted is if the hax are explicitly shown to work on a low 1-C level, and given no one has fought true Arceus there's no real way to prove the hax scale to that level IMO.

And I don't think the evidence presented proves this to be the case.
 
Refer to the title, and yes we are doing this again, with an actual argument this time to use.

Recently, Arceus was upgraded to Low 1-C in this thread. However, his hax hasn’t been given the same treatment due to not having sufficient justifications for why his abilities would scale to his dimensionality and be considered Low 1-C. Until now that is. Giving an actual argument on why the hax should scale, the answers I have are actually pretty simple. First things first, here’s something referenced in the thread where Arceus got upgraded to Low 1-C in the first place. The Eternal Battle Reviere.

Eternal Battle Reviere

Basically, as I mentioned in the earlier Low 1-C thread, this is a game mode in Legends Arceus where Arceus summons you again to its realm to challenge you in fights. You can fight anything from wild Pokémon to even using your own Arceus against “Arceus’ Arceus”, and it showcased even multiple versions of the Creation Trio existing at the same time, confirming completely that they use avatars to interact with the multiverse. This was even said in the game itself, where Arceus has given to the MC a part of itself as a reward for completing the mission Arceus has originally gave to them when it “isekai’d” them to Hisui, and the dex’s requirement to complete Arceus’ page (here's the clip where I took the screenshot) just repeats this even more.

The important point here from this to focus on is the fact, that, since Arceus is able to bring you to his dimension to have battles against you with “his own Arceus”, and throws against us anything from wild Pokémon to the Creation Trio to battle against inside his dimension too, that means that Arceus’s powers, and Pokémon powers, are able to be used and operate inside his dimension, which is accepted as a 5-D realm as of now.

This should be helpful evidence to help suffice the idea that Arceus’s hax scales to his dimensionality since he’s bringing you to his dimension to battle against him, and the moves used by his avatars, the Creation Trio and otherwise, can work inside his dimension. And we all know the kind of moves the former 3’s attacks and moves have that can effect things like time and space, such as Roar of Time and Spatial Rend.

Of course, fighting inside his dimension isn’t all there is here, as better evidence is coming on top of this next.

The Legend Plate

In addition to the above about his dimeneion, Legends also gives us something called the Legend Plate, where this inscription is stated on the plate itself:

“From all creations, over all creations, does the Original One watch over all."

And here, the important part, is the description of what the plate is:

“A stone tablet imbued with the essence of all creation. When used on a certain Pokémon, it allows that Pokémon to gain the power of every type there is.”

It’s as said. The Legend Plate outright states that all of creation's essence is imbued into it, granting the powers of all Pokémon types. This is important, because we all already know the relationship between that of all Pokémon powers and types, and Arceus’s type plates, with the plates being the source of where Pokémon powers originated from in the first place.

With Pokémon powers originating from Arceus’s plates and all of creation being an aspect of the legend plate, this should also strongly support the notion that Arceus’s abilities scales to his dimension when “all creation” should of course take Arceus’s own dimension into account as well with the rest of the Pokémon Cosmology. In other words, Arceus’s dimension being an aspect of the legend plate like the rest of the cosmology helps to establish Pokémon powers and Arceus’s own dimension having a correlation.

Going even deeper, with the most important part of the evidence I have here that ties everything together, there’s supporting feats with Arceus actually affecting his own dimension as well.

Jewel of Life

This case should get even stronger if we use Jewel of Life and other anime details as more additional evidence for the argument.

While sleeping inside of it, Arceus explicitly effects his own dimension by not only shaking it, but also distorting it with space-time distortions with the energy he gave off (and that was Weakened Arceus with him missing plates at that)



His Avatar reabsorbs the energy given off to distort his dimension



Same thing happens in the manga version of Jewel of Life (and let the record reflect, Sheena here even calls it dimensional energy)

IMG_0902.jpg



The back of the DVD box for Jewel of Life even cites that Arceus was going to “devastate all existence” across multiple dimensions

IMG_0797.webp


Those dimensions obviously including his own and the Creation Trios.

Now, his energy being able to effect his own dimension is an important detail that helps us, because we know that Arceus’s own power is related to the type plates his Avatar wields. The plates being where all Pokémon powers in the verse originate from.

And we know the plates are associated with Arceus’s own energy since:

The Jewel of Life, which Arceus’s power flows out of to fertilize the land of Michina Town, is literally made up of 5 of his plates combined

3 of Arceus’s plates were used by Ghris in Clash of Ages, as 3 great abundant forces of nature, to create Hoopa's Prison Bottle

Arceus’s Flame Plate was used in an attempt by Team Galactic to release energy to not only affect space-time to continue their plans of making a new world, but the released energy from the plate created Heatrans new form to cause it to go berserk.

So, henceforth, we know Arceus’s plates wield power that would be his own since they're aspects of him, and with his power being capable of effecting his own dimension to such a casual degree, his powers would have a direct correlation with his dimension.

So, to recap on what we know here:

-We know Arceus can have battles against us inside his dimension with himself and other Pokémon, including the creation trio; we know Pokémon powers, some of which have effects such as effecting space-time like the Creation Trios abilities do, can operate inside Arceus’s realm.

-We know Arceus possesses all of creations essence as an aspect of himself with his plates, where all Pokémon powers in the first place originate from, and all of creation would include his own dimension too

-We know Arceus can, and has casually and blatantly demonstrated, effect his own dimension with distortions made by his power; power, aka “dimensional energy”, that he can reabsorb as well.

-We know there’s a relationship between Arceus’s plates and his power, as things like the Jewel of Life, the Prison Bottle, and Heatrans berserker form displayed to us

Taking all of these details and evidences into account, the result at the end of the day, should be, that Arceus’s abilities scale to his dimensionality, and are thus Low 1-C.

And without further a due, let’s discuss

Staff Agreement: @Maverick_Zero_X

Agree: @Thelastmlg, @ActuallySpaceMan, @JooCipher, @Yemma670, @Pikaman, @Arceus0x, @Zencha9

Neutral:

Disagree:
I absolutely agree
 
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To be frank, afaik Pokemon hasn't got a UES or equivalent,
Aura and infinity energy are a thing. But that’s neither here nor there.
the only way I see Low 1-C hax being accepted is if the hax are explicitly shown to work on a low 1-C level, and given no one has fought true Arceus there's no real way to prove the hax scale to that level IMO.
Which is why all of creation being an aspect of Arceus’s plates and him affecting his own dimension with his power, power that the plates are associated with, and the plates being the origin of all Pokémon powers, are core evidences to argue they’re on a Low 1-C level. On top of fighting inside the dimension as support evidence.
 
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i'd like to add that in the japanese version the description of the legends plate also states that it is the power of all things (very literally) or rather all creation (when used in context)
 

Hasty12345

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Aura and infinity energy are a thing. But that’s neither here nor there.

Which is why all of creation being an aspect of Arceus’s plates and him affecting his own dimension with his power, power that the plates are associated with, and the plates being the origin of all Pokémon powers, are core evidences to argue they’re on a Low 1-C level. On top of fighting inside the dimension as support evidence.
I wouldn't have a problem with this argument in the context of a UES, but Arceus has no feats of using anything but creation on a low 1-C scale as far as I can see. Every hax in the verse from my knowledge is used on up to a 2-A scale with the sole exception being Arecus' low 1-C creation, you can't upscale hax from 2-A to low 1-C based on handwavy arguments withlittle to no feats.
 

Sniper670

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the only way I see Low 1-C hax being accepted is if the hax are explicitly shown to work on a low 1-C level, and given no one has fought true Arceus there's no real way to prove the hax scale to that level IMO.
No one needs to fight his True Form when there's a higher dimensional Realm in the cosmology. And that is what the crt here was basing it on for the upgrade

His True Form? That thing scales above the cosmology as a whole. A 5D realm is irrelevant when he simultaneously encompasses it while being beyond it. Literally Beyond the Dimensional nature of the cosmology. Nothing that comes after him will share his level of existence.


If it's generally agreed and proven nothing scales to him, why are we then scaling him to a dimension????????
 
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I wouldn't have a problem with this argument in the context of a UES, but Arceus has no feats of using anything but creation on a low 1-C scale as far as I can see.
And having all of creation as an aspect of his powers

and you know

literally shaking and distorting his own Low 1-C dimension…isn’t on a Low 1-C scale?
 

Sniper670

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"If most his hax are upscaled from 2-A characters and he's never used them on a low 1-C scale, why are we trying to upscale his hax by an uncountably infinite degree without feats?"
Arceus with plates missing casually affected his realm while attempting to wake up

What is uncountably infinite to him? Something he created?

What you need to be proven has already been done so in op.
 

Hasty12345

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And having all of creation as an aspect of his powers

and you know

literally shaking and distorting his own Low 1-C dimension…isn’t on a Low 1-C scale?
shaking a dimension proves all hax scale to said level?

"all of creation" is 2-A is it not? Arecus is low 1-C because he's above said creation?<- That's my understanding as to why Arecus is low 1-C, honestly his profile makes it sound like he's a sentient low 1-C structure

I don't think scaling the hax shown within his creation to a form outside the creation without having seen said hax on that scale or without a UES to piggyback on works.
 
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shaking a dimension proves all hax scale to said level?
His hax was the thing effecting it
"all of creation" is 2-A is it not? Arecus is low 1-C because he's above said creation?<- That's my understanding as to why Arecus is low 1-C, honestly his profile makes it sound like he's a sentient low 1-C structure
No all of creation is Low 1-C for Arceus’s dimension which exists beyond the multiverse. The Heart exists beyond that realm.
 

Sniper670

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shaking a dimension proves all hax scale to said level?

"all of creation" is 2-A is it not? Arecus is low 1-C because he's above said creation?<- That's my understanding as to why Arecus is low 1-C, honestly his profile makes it sound like he's a sentient low 1-C structure
No?? He's low 1C on account on that Dimension.

His True Form being above creation should make it 6D, but I digress.

All creation is contained inside him and below his level of existence

BDE 2 should have him automatically scaling above the highest dimension in the cosmology lol
I don't think scaling the hax shown within his creation to a form outside the creation without having seen said hax on that scale or without a UES to piggyback on works.
He literally brought you to his realm to have a fight with him. With all hax working JUST FINE.
 

Sniper670

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Question. Why is it that all characters who reach higher dimensions are automatically assumed to have their hax scale while Arceus is being restricted to creation hax ?

Dante and Co hax ALL work fine, judging from his matches . And is likely that will be the case for kirby
 
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No?? He's low 1C on account on that Dimension.

His True Form being above creation should make it 6D, but I digress.

All creation is contained inside him and below his level of existence

BDE 2 should have him automatically scaling above the highest dimension in the cosmology lol

He literally brought you to his realm to have a fight with him. With all hax working JUST FINE.
First, that ain't how BDE 2 works. It just means that Arceus is > spacetime on a 5D level. Doesn't even imply 6D (or at the very least nothing more than a "0" on the 6D scale).

Second, what is that UES you all keep talking about? What does it mean?
 

Hasty12345

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No?? He's low 1C on account on that Dimension.

His True Form being above creation should make it 6D, but I digress.

All creation is contained inside him and below his level of existence

BDE 2 should have him automatically scaling above the highest dimension in the cosmology lol
so there's a 5D dimension within the multiverse or whatever "creation" and his true form is beyond that? It does sound like he should be 6D.
He literally brought you to his realm to have a fight with him. With all hax working JUST FINE.
So every Pokemon should have low 1-C hax if they can fight a low 1-C avatar of Arceus using low 1-C hax right?

Question. Why is it that all characters who reach higher dimensions are automatically assumed to have their hax scale while Arceus is being restricted to creation hax ?

Dante and Co hax ALL work fine, judging from his matches . And is likely that will be the case for kirby
Don't know, sounds like some standards need to be clarified, but I'd hope those verses have feats of hax working on that scale
 

Sniper670

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First, that ain't how BDE 2 works. It just means that Arceus is > spacetime on a 5D level. Doesn't even imply 6D (or at the very least nothing more than a "0" on the 6D scale).
All creation was one Essense within himself

There's literally no difference in his transcendence between the main multiverse and literally anything that comes after him

Fine. I'll make that CRT myself. Let's leave that out of this for now
 
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All creation was one Essense within himself

There's literally no difference in his transcendence between the main multiverse and literally anything that comes after him

Fine. I'll make that CRT myself. Let's leave that out of this for now
Okay. But if you can't prove a Reality/Fiction relation, or an uncountably infinite difference between true form llama and llama's realm, it shall remain as a BDE 2 5D.
 

Hasty12345

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Oh, you're talking about types (the closest Pokemon equivalent), then?
No, I only brought them up because I believe the evidence used in this CRT would prove low 1-C hax potency, if Pokemon were to have one accepted. I didn't bring them up in an attempt to debunk anything, it's not really an argument against anything in this thread
 
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No, I only brought them up because I believe the evidence used in this CRT would prove low 1-C hax potency, if Pokemon were to have one accepted. I didn't bring them up in an attempt to debunk anything, it's not really an argument against anything in this thread
Ahhh. Not sure what that would even achieve either way, though.
 
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Technically pokemon do have a type of pseudo-UES. Pokemon have "energy" which is used in every move. An example is when a pokemon uses Hyper Beam and they need to recover energy after that. Energy is what makes most attacks glow, it is what composes those attacks. I am planning to finish what XXKing wanted to start at one point and make all weather based moves scale to AP that way but that's for another time.
 

Sniper670

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No, I only brought them up because I believe the evidence used in this CRT would prove low 1-C hax potency, if Pokemon were to have one accepted. I didn't bring them up in an attempt to debunk anything, it's not really an argument against anything in this thread
I'm not sure what this will prove.

All Pokémon possess Infinity Energy and Aura
 

Hasty12345

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I'm not sure what this will prove.

All Pokémon possess Infinity Energy and Aura
Technically pokemon do have a type of pseudo-UES. Pokemon have "energy" which is used in every move. An example is when a pokemon uses Hyper Beam and they need to recover energy after that. Energy is what makes most attacks glow, it is what composes those attacks. I am planning to finish what XXKing wanted to start at one point and make all weather based moves scale to AP that way but that's for another time.
Well it sounds like Pokemon does have some sort of UES, I'm willing to withdraw my disagreement on this basis
 

Sniper670

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Technically pokemon do have a type of pseudo-UES. Pokemon have "energy" which is used in every move. An example is when a pokemon uses Hyper Beam and they need to recover energy after that. Energy is what makes most attacks glow, it is what composes those attacks. I am planning to finish what XXKing wanted to start at one point and make all weather based moves scale to AP that way but that's for another time.
I haven't seen it. Mind pointing me to it later?
 
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Why the wait?😒
cause i still haven't finished applying the Low 7-B/7-B CRT because i was doing exams and then moving countries and then moving into a new house and AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA i need help
 

Sniper670

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So... You can prove that Arceus sees itself as fictional?
Yeah, do not start by scaling anyone to The Heart. It has no equivalent

That thing is a canvas on which all creation exists on. And the canvas, is Pure Consciousness, Brahman in Buddism, The Heart, exactly what humans use to perceive the world in Pokémon

In short. Cosmology is in his mind (The Heart)
 

Sniper670

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cause i still haven't finished applying the Low 7-B/7-B CRT because i was doing exams and then moving countries and then moving into a new house and AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA i need help
It seems I can't edit some pages for some reason, so unfortunately I can't help

But I'll look forward to the next crt
 

Hasty12345

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I don't understand why UES is enough to withdraw disagreement

Can you explain the relevancy of UES in this crt?
Most of Arecus' hax are upscaled (or all hax are downscaled from Arecus') from feats of the 2-A characters (and I guess every character in the verse) or shown through the use of an avatar at a level lower than low 1-C.

I don't see why we should use ambiguous statements and handwavey logic to assert every one of Arecus' hax scale to his true form, when he hasn't shown to do so, I suppose we need low 1-C rock manip because he upscales (or dugtrio downscales from Arceus, whatever the case may be) from dugtrio's rock manip hax due to having created a high 6-A dugtrio or whatever, to me that line of reasoning is just absurd.

To the best of my knowledge of how a UES is supposed to work, it would circumvent the issues I have with the reasoning used in this thread
 

Hasty12345

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Yeah, do not start by scaling anyone to The Heart. It has no equivalent

That thing is a canvas on which all creation exists on. And the canvas, is Pure Consciousness, Brahman in Buddism, The Heart, exactly what humans use to perceive the world in Pokémon

In short. Cosmology is in his mind (The Heart)
Talk about confusing
 
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we need low 1-C rock manip because he upscales (or dugtrio downscales from Arceus, whatever the case may be) from dugtrio's rock manip hax due to having created a high 6-A dugtrio or whatever, to me that line of reasoning is just absurd.
that's actually the most logical thing about this whole ordeal. If you have a special attack that uses a rock charged with energy and that energy is Low 1-C then you will be able to harm people with Low 1-C durability.
 

Hasty12345

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that's actually the most logical thing about this whole ordeal. If you have a special attack that uses a rock charged with energy and that energy is Low 1-C then you will be able to harm people with Low 1-C durability.
Admittedly, the whole idea that "everyone downscales from Arceus" has confused the hell out of me.
 
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Yeah, do not start by scaling anyone to The Heart. It has no equivalent

That thing is a canvas on which all creation exists on. And the canvas, is Pure Consciousness, Brahman in Buddism, The Heart, exactly what humans use to perceive the world in Pokémon

In short. Cosmology is in his mind (The Heart)
And that's why he's 5D. Now you need to prove that Arceus sees The Heart as fictional.
 
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This really got bloated with the sudden 6D BS.

Anyway, the whole point is that the plates are arceus' energy, and their energy affected a low 1-C wirh hax, so the plates scale.

Also, in the same movie they learned about the energy messing stuff up, the (woman i forgot the name of) brought up their spaces, including arceus' and says that he created all of them, so yes, his realm is "part of creation".

The only things that aren't part of creation are the vortex of chaos and the heart as a entity, not structure
 
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Guys, STOP talking about anything 6-D. Please. This thread is about Arceus’s hax, not anything beyond what has been accepted for him.

This thread is becoming needlessly derailed and it needs to stop now.
 
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Ego

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Question. Why is it that all characters who reach higher dimensions are automatically assumed to have their hax scale while Arceus is being restricted to creation hax ?

Dante and Co hax ALL work fine, judging from his matches . And is likely that will be the case for kirby
Bro excactly!!!!!!
 
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By the way, Everything12 disagrees. Even if his reason for disagreeing is... Odd, I still think it should be counted.
Normally I would count a disagreement but there’s a difference between counting a disagreement based on an actual argument and a disagreement that’s based on nothing.

Everythings points are the latter as they pretty much ignore some of the evidence I posted and ask for evidence on things that are already provided. So it’s not really a proper disagreeing vote.
 
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I think at the point where your response to a CRT is "it's all completely subjective so therefore I will be voting disagree" you just shouldn't expect to have your vote counted ngl.
 
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I think at the point where your response to a CRT is "it's all completely subjective so therefore I will be voting disagree" you just shouldn't expect to have your vote counted ngl.
Fair enough. After all, at that point, you can disagree to any CRT, no matter what.

So... Basically, it's unanimous?
 
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Honestly is there even anything that needs changing? It’s not like we’re trying to add anything to Arceus’s page, but rather just get his hax potency upgraded. So what exactly should be done as far as revisions go?
 
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I'm also ok with the CRT.
Moreover, there is also another reason for which it is correct: The plates' powers are said, in the same plates, to come from these so-called Giants, creatures that have been defeated and absorbed by the Original One (true form Arceus) before the creation. So this means that they were also Low-1C entities, and so the powers of the plates are Low-1C. I made a more complete comment about them a while ago in the general thread.
 
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