Arceus and forgotten abilities + 5D Potency (avatar edition)

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Wow to my suggestion or wow to what exactly? Since I am not being against you in any aspect ig?

To the situation and randomness of being reported. Not to you in particular.

 

[theultimate5105]

That's not what he says. He says this:

"Much as that ancient hero once did. He and the Pokémon that walked beside him.
To see such truths proven anew, beyond the bounds of time and space, bringeth joy to me.
I am glad that I chose thee to call to this world."


The World is refering to Hisui. The player and Arceus are in the sky above Hall of Origin. Arceus is happy he brought the player to Hisui.

Beyond the bounds of time and space, is a reference that the player did what the ancient hero once did, meaning that people can have deep bonds with pokemon regardless of the time period or place. (or that Arceus was watching the player beyond time and space, idk its very flowerly)

And again, in the video it literally shows the player character walking up steps to a platform in the sky, and we can see the literal moon. It's similar to the azure flute event in Platinum where the player plays the flute, steps appear that lead to a platform floating in the sky.

Not to mention the place is extremely different to the place that Arceus directly calls his realm.




Wow.

They are literally not in the skies above Hisui do you see the earth anywhere (and yes you can look down)
Of course you don’t so you clearly don’t
Then you have the beyond the bounds of time and space which is the same as Arceus’s statement for his realm being outside of time and space

For some more evidence Giratina was trying to reach Arceus but he could not (clearly not in the atmosphere) and anywhere else in the world would be easy for Giratina to reach so it is clearly not in the multiverse which makes it so that it must be Arceus’s dimension

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

They are literally not in the skies above Hisui do you see the earth anywhere (and yes you can look down)
Of course you don’t so you clearly don’t
Then you have the beyond the bounds of time and space which is the same as Arceus’s statement for his realm being outside of time and space

For some more evidence Giratina was trying to reach Arceus but he could not (clearly not in the atmosphere) and anywhere else in the world would be easy for Giratina to reach so it is clearly not in the multiverse which makes it so that it must be Arceus’s dimension

What part of you literally see the MOON.



Arceus isn't always in the sky. The stairs and platform appear when the player plays the flute.

 

[Arceus0x]

What part of you literally see the MOON.



Arceus isn't always in the sky. The stairs and platform appear when the player plays the flute.

Who the heck cares about the moon? The sky changes completely from what you had before, there are exactly 0 clouds and when you finish the encounter you literally wake up whilst standing, suggesting that you can only go there with you consciousness.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Who the heck cares about the moon? The sky changes completely from what you had before, there are exactly 0 clouds and when you finish the encounter you literally wake up whilst standing, suggesting that you can only go there with you consciousness.

Because it counts as evidence that it's in the sky.

And we see Aurora Borealis. That occurs in the Ionosphere beyond the clouds, so that's why you don't see any. Which is even more evidence that it takes place on earth.

Also Artistic interpretation is a big thing.

Even if what you say is true, that still doesn't mean it's Arceus Realm as it is completely different from the area where Arceus directly states is his realm.

 

[theultimate5105]

What part of you literally see the MOON.



Arceus isn't always in the sky. The stairs and platform appear when the player plays the flute.

Arceus’s dimension is known to contain celestial bodies, show the earth it should be easy after all
And no that is not a aurora, Auroras happen near the poles and do not happen in Sinnoh at all (also it would be visible on the ground and even then you could see the earth past it)
The stairs that you are saying go to the sky it wouldn’t matter if they appeared or not as Arceus is shown sitting in that dimension which if it was in the sky would be trivial to access for Giratina

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Arceus’s dimension is known to contain celestial bodies, show the earth it should be easy after all

Arceus's realm in the Pokemon Legends is depicted as a black void with a golden light shining through it.

And no that is not a aurora, Auroras happen near the poles and do not happen in Sinnoh at all (also it would be visible on the ground and even then you could see the earth past it)

The Aurora that occured isn't natural. It was brought on by playing the flute.

The stairs that you are saying go to the sky it wouldn’t matter if they appeared or not as Arceus is shown sitting in that dimension which if it was in the sky would be trivial to access for Giratina

The stairs, the platform, Arceus all appeared when the flute was played. Arceus isn't hanging there in the sky all the time.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Still suggesting this

https://vsbattles.com/threads/rule-violation-reports-new-forum.107529/post-5226377

 

[theultimate5105]

Arceus's realm in the Pokemon Legends is depicted as a black void with a golden light shining through it.

The golden light being Arceus and Space looks like a black void so that means nothing

The Aurora that occured isn't natural. It was brought on by playing the flute.

So it means nothing then as it could be anywhere as it was caused by the flute

The stairs, the platform, Arceus all appeared when the flute was played. Arceus isn't hanging there in the sky all the time.

And why would he not be, the flute doesn’t summon him it only opened a path to him

Prove that it takes place in the sky and that Arceus was summoned by it
He has no reason to have been summoned especially when the eternal battle reverie takes place in the same place even without using the flute, which proves that he stays in that same place even when you are not using the flute

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

The golden light being Arceus and Space looks like a black void so that means nothing

Which is compltely different to the stars and Moon shown during the Azure flute event. And very much different to Anime movie where Arceus is inside a space filled with galaxies and swirling energy.

So it means nothing then as it could be anywhere as it was caused by the flute

Except we have steps that show the Player acending upwards towards the sky. We also have the Plantinum Azure Flute event which depicts similar actions. Based on these two evidence I can beyond a doubt say that the Legends event happened in the sky and not in Arceus's realm which looked completely different.

Prove that it takes place in the sky and that Arceus was summoned by it

I already did. What happens when you walk up stairs that go up into the sky? You end in the sky. Prove the player teleported to Arceus's realm between cutscene of him ascending the steps, and then reaching the top of the stairs.

And then Prove that Arceus's realm has multiple appearances.

Also you keep ignoring my evidence that the event is similar to the azure flute event in Platinum.

He has no reason to have been summoned especially when the eternal battle reverie takes place in the same place even without using the flute

You can only access EBR after you use the flute to summon Arceus.

Is it impossible for Arceus to leave his realm and meet the player in the sky?

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Also, Bulbapedia states that Eternal Battle Reverie is at the Hall of Origin.

Eternal Battle Reverie

bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net

 

[Reio35]

Man got one shot by meteor tho lmao

 

[theultimate5105]

Which is compltely different to the stars and Moon shown during the Azure flute event. And very much different to Anime movie where Arceus is inside a space filled with galaxies and swirling energy.

No it isn't Space itself is black with stars inside of it. Hell when something is really bright (like Arceus's Light or the Sun) you cannot see any other sources of light

Except we have steps that show the Player acending upwards towards the sky. We also have the Plantinum Azure Flute event which depicts similar actions. Based on these two evidence I can beyond a doubt say that the Legends event happened in the sky and not in Arceus's realm which looked completely different.

Steps which end after an unknown amount of time and are not known to actually stay in the same dimension

I already did. What happens when you walk up stairs that go up into the sky? You end in the sky. Prove the player teleported to Arceus's realm between cutscene of him ascending the steps, and then reaching the top of the stairs.

Can you look down and see the earth, No. Then you are not in the sky

And then Prove that Arceus's realm has multiple appearances.

Literally the same all around just space with stuff in it

Also you keep ignoring my evidence that the event is similar to the azure flute event in Platinum.

Similar but not the same also technically that never even happened, at least use the BDSP version (which you can see the ground in)

You can only access EBR after you use the flute to summon Arceus.

And your proof that he is summoned, it is never showed to summon him just open up a path to him if it summoned him he would have zero reason not to do the same thing in the hall of Origin events but in those you can see the earth which is not visible in the Legends Arceus event even though if it was in the sky it should be visible

Is it impossible for Arceus to leave his realm and meet the player in the sky?

Already showed that it cannot be the sky as the Earth is not visible if you look down at the planet

Also the Hall of Origin has a very different appearence, The platform where you fight him is the Mystri stage (or at least it looks the exact same as it)

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

No it isn't Space itself is black with stars inside of it. Hell when something is really bright (like Arceus's Light or the Sun) you cannot see any other sources of light

Not true. Look at this video. There is nothing

Steps which end after an unknown amount of time and are not known to actually stay in the same dimension

Isn't Arceus's realm supposed to be inaccessible? How could the player reach it through walking?

Can you look down and see the earth, No. Then you are not in the sky

They are in the sky because you can see the Moon and the stars.

Literally the same all around just space with stuff in it

Already proved you wrong. Arceus realm is pitch black. The only light comes from him. So prove that Arceu's dimension changes appearence.

And your proof that he is summoned, it is never showed to summon him just open up a path to him if it summoned him he would have zero reason not to do the same thing in the hall of Origin events but in those you can see the earth which is not visible in the Legends Arceus event even though if it was in the sky it should be visible

Why would the player go through the same event again each time to go to the EBR? Also this is moot because it doesn't prove that it's Arceus's realm.

Already showed that it cannot be the sky as the Earth is not visible if you look down at the planet

Already proved it's the sky because you can see the moon and the stars.

 

[theultimate5105]

Not true. Look at this video. There is nothing




Isn't Arceus's realm supposed to be inaccessible? How could the player reach it through walking?

They are in the sky because you can see the Moon and the stars.



Already proved you wrong. Arceus realm is pitch black. The only light comes from him. So prove that Arceu's dimension changes appearence.



Why would the player go through the same event again each time to go to the EBR? Also this is moot because it doesn't prove that it's Arceus's realm.


Already proved it's the sky because you can see the moon and the stars.

Honestly there are a lot of places in the universe which can look like that (we don't even see every angle)
Because they opened a path to it
Which doesn't make it so they are in the sky. The trick is what you can't see which is the earth
Space is Pitch black (also that did not look pitch black) Arceus's realm already has parts of it that are pitch black from this
Arceus Directly brings you those times, and Arceus stays in his realm, Arceus is staying in that dimension, therefore it must be his realm
Which does not mean anything when his dimension has celestial bodies

 

[Deceived3596]

Man got one shot by meteor tho lmao

Gremmy really do be soloing the verse.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Arceus after fighting him in THE SAME PLACE WITH MOONS AND STARS

[~ 34]

These quotes may have potentially additional context if examined in Japanese. In particular, the stuff that can potentially describe the realm as beyond time and space, wether Arceus is referring the place they are standing in right there, or if he himself is speaking through the avatar (from beyond his realm that's also beyond time and space). I would suggest to seek them, as that can clear this discussion.

Edit: Because if that place is already beyond time and space, it lends credence to suggest it is in fact the same dimension he describes at the beginning of the game (though either way wouldn't matter, as the first confirmation would be more than enough imo)

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

So unless I'm mistaken, here's the dialogue in japanese, if someone wants to translate it:

 

[ImmortalDread]

Ngl my suggestion could save yall circling arguments

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I have asked in the translation thread.

Ngl my suggestion could save yall circling arguments

It would still be beneficial to resolve this, as it would certainly upgrade the true form Arceus/Original Spirit to 6-D, potentially.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Yap. I would create one but I am not verse knowledgeable on this regards. So it is best to create one and create CRT for it

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Yap. I would create one but I am not verse knowledgeable on this regards. So it is best to create one and create CRT for it

I would make one. But I have no idea how far along the canon split they already started on here currently is.

 

[ImmortalDread]

I would make one. But I have no idea how far along the canon split they already started on here currently is.

I can help you with setting up but I have no material whatsoever. It is really the best solution to solve this infinite boundless circling argument.

PS: I am not siding with anyone here genuinely trying to be helpful

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

So yeah, bois

Eternal Battle Reverie can't be Arceus dimension, as the only thing that connects the two has just been clarified by @Executor_N0 here edit: that is not really connected to Arceus' realm that's described at the beginning of the game. In fact, it kind of suggest to me that there's even a problem with even Arceus' realm being truly "beyond time and space" in a beyond dimensional sense. But I shall avoid the shit storm that will entail. Take it however you will.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

So yeah, bois

Eternal Battle Reverie can't be Arceus dimension, as the only thing that connects the two has just been clarified by @Executor_N0 here edit: that is not really connected to Arceus' realm that's described at the beginning of the game. In fact, it kind of suggest to me that there's even a problem with even Arceus' realm being truly "beyond time and space" in a beyond dimensional sense. But I shall avoid the shit storm that will entail. Take it however you will.

Well at least that chapter of the debate is over.

 

[Sniper670]

So yeah, bois

Eternal Battle Reverie can't be Arceus dimension, as the only thing that connects the two has just been clarified by @Executor_N0 here edit: that is not really connected to Arceus' realm that's described at the beginning of the game. In fact, it kind of suggest to me that there's even a problem with even Arceus' realm being truly "beyond time and space" in a beyond dimensional sense. But I shall avoid the shit storm that will entail. Take it however you will.

So why is Arceus low 1C again?

 

[Sniper670]

I would make one. But I have no idea how far along the canon split they already started on here currently is.

Seriously. What is your problem exactly?

I won't stand for this. Bring it on.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

So why is Arceus low 1C again?

Why exactly? That should be discussed then. But as he said he doesn't want to and will rather avoid it than talk about it. So no need to delve into that topic. As of now Eternal battle reverie is confirmed with translation by Executor

 

[Sniper670]

Not true. Look at this video. There is nothing




Isn't Arceus's realm supposed to be inaccessible? How could the player reach it through walking?

Because God, that's who

They are in the sky because you can see the Moon and the stars.

Arceus literally says it's his plane of reality.

Already proved you wrong. Arceus realm is pitch black. The only light comes from him. So prove that Arceu's dimension changes appearence

Arceus says its his realm

Why would the player go through the same event again each time to go to the EBR? Also this is moot because it doesn't prove that it's Arceus's realm.

Arceus says it's his realm

Already proved it's the sky because you can see the moon and the stars.

Arceus says it's his realm

 

[theultimate5105]

Well at least that chapter of the debate is over.

What was the importance of that part again, I seriously don’t remember

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

What was the importance of that part again, I seriously don’t remember

Pay more attention next time specially on the verse you're familiar and knowledgeable with and also important.

Read from here again

https://vsbattles.com/threads/arceus-and-forgotten-abilities-5d-potency-avatar-edition.143447/post-5171896

Now that these 2 realms are implied to have been different by translation done by Executor. His argument holds
And also comes the questioning whether Arceus realm really is tier 1 since the quote from where Arceus realm is 5D has some misapprehension/ or wrong implications

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I would make one. But I have no idea how far along the canon split they already started on here currently is.

Oh yeah, regarding this

It was decided the split wouldn't affect the Creation Trio. So don't wait on that for your thread.

So why is Arceus low 1C again?

My guy, I almost got crucified on dc and the split thread, and you want me to also open that Pandora's box? ovo

 

[theultimate5105]

Pay more attention next time specially on the verse you're familiar and knowledgeable with and also important.

Read from here again

https://vsbattles.com/threads/arceus-and-forgotten-abilities-5d-potency-avatar-edition.143447/post-5171896

Now that these 2 realms are implied to have been different by translation done by Executor. His argument holds
And also comes the questioning whether Arceus realm really is tier 1 since the quote from where Arceus realm is 5D has some misapprehension/ or wrong implications

Except if one says that the one that Arceus fight in Isn’t his realm, then it doesn’t matter as you still cannot say if the one at the start of the game isn’t The same realm
Executor stating they are different covered the place where you fight Arceus not the place where the game starts

 

[ThanatosX]

Pay more attention next time specially on the verse you're familiar and knowledgeable with and also important.

Read from here again

https://vsbattles.com/threads/arceus-and-forgotten-abilities-5d-potency-avatar-edition.143447/post-5171896

Now that these 2 realms are implied to have been different by translation done by Executor. His argument holds
And also comes the questioning whether Arceus realm really is tier 1 since the quote from where Arceus realm is 5D has some misapprehension/ or wrong implications

Correction, it just proves that the Eternal Battle Reverie and Arceus' Realm are two separate things, not that Arceus' Realm in the anime and in the games are two separate things. His argument rely on this, not the Eternal Battle Reverie.
Again, at the moment the accepted cosmology consider the game and the anime as a single Multiverse, if that changes and the two are split then the God Tiers needs a huge revision, with the profile being separated in two different continuities, one for the Game and one for the Anime.
Also, there is no reason to he aggressive. Theultimate was rightfully confused because this thread became an unwatched mess, so much that even you didn't actually understand what the discussion was about.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Except if one says that the one that Arceus fight in Isn’t his realm, then it doesn’t matter as you still cannot say if the one at the start of the game isn’t The same realm

If the one at the start of the game is the Eternal Battle Reverie (which have nothing explicit, and the only description that links them seems to suggest is referring to time travel when mentioning "beyond time and space" according to Executor), then we have quite a big problem, you know.

 

[Sniper670]

I'm going to ask Executor_N0 some questions

 

[Sniper670]

Correction, it just proves that the Eternal Battle Reverie and Arceus' Realm are two separate things, not that Arceus' Realm in the anime and in the games are two separate things. His argument rely on this, not the Eternal Battle Reverie.
Again, at the moment the accepted cosmology consider the game and the anime as a single Multiverse, if that changes and the two are split then the God Tiers needs a huge revision, with the profile being separated in two different continuities, one for the Game and one for the Anime.
Also, there is no reason to he aggressive. Theultimate was rightfully confused because this thread became an unwatched mess, so much that even you didn't actually understand what the discussion was about.

Masuda says it's the same place. It's the same multiverse

We can't really split it because they're all simply various Avatars of the Original Spirit

 

[theultimate5105]

If the one at the start of the game is the Eternal Battle Reverie (which have nothing explicit, and the only description that links them seems to suggest is referring to time travel when mentioning "beyond time and space" according to Executor), then we have quite a big problem, you know.

Not really, I am not saying it is anymore as the main portion was debunked

The problem with that is if the eternal battle reverie dimension isn’t his dimension then it is irrelevant to the fact that the dimension at the beginning of the game is Arceus’s dimension and a black void is pretty much the same as Arceus’s dimension from the movies. So Arceus’s dimension would still only have one, just anything for the eternal battle reverie realm does not apply to it

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Not really, I am not saying it is anymore as the main portion was debunked

The problem with that is if the eternal battle reverie dimension isn’t his dimension then it is irrelevant to the fact that the dimension at the beginning of the game is Arceus’s dimension and a black void is pretty much the same as Arceus’s dimension from the movies

However, it weakens overall the hax scaling to Arceus in a explicit sense, as the Eternal Battle Reverie was used as proof of Arceus "warping his own dimension".

Only thing left is the shockwaves, which is a bit nonsensical to me to scale an ap feat to hax.

 

[Sniper670]

However, it weakens overall the hax scaling to Arceus in a explicit sense, as the Eternal Battle Reverie was used as proof of Arceus "warping his own dimension".

Why is Arceus realm 5D at all?

Iirc "Beyond" time and space can mean many things. So why is Arceus realm 5D