Pokemon - Arceus Downgrade

[Sniper670]

Yeah. With the recent changes made to Transduality, Arceus True Form doesn't qualify. So Uhh..... Nuke it. Theres hints about him being Apophatic, but I'll like to wait for more info from GF. For now, it has to go

As for NEP 2. I'm not sure whether this Qualifies.

• "The Original One is in all things. The Original One is nowhere at all."

• Legend Plate: "From all creations, over all creations, does the Original One watch over all."

What this is telling us is that even though he sees everything from everything, he's unseen, unheard and uninteractable. A paradoxical state where he's there, but Truly not

And the multiverse has Souls, Abstracts, Nonexistent entities, and those existing as disembodied consciousness[16] or those existing between dreams and reality, and those who can exist as data. Ghost types and many others can physically interact with dreams, Illusions and some eat Emotions for nourishment and other intangible beings
Plus, His True Form nature extends to the conceptual embodiment of Nonexistence, which is an aspect of his avatar

Also, I don't see how the thing about low 1c Arceus equates to low 1C. Nothing there implies anything of sorts. I'd need staff to thoroughly check it out, in case I'm missing something. The closest thing I can think of, is that the Arceus, and in extension the multiverse and space and time concept, is a manifestation of the Spirit. If this don't qualify, then just remove it

That's all.

Also, Pokémon Go plot hax R>F is getting prepared by my trusted partner. Just a heads up

 

[ImmortalDread]

Agreed. Just nuke it

 

[y3p_owo]

Why do I get the feeling that this was made due to the outcome of the revision for Arceus and the plates?

 

[y3p_owo]

Anyways, the Low 1-C stuff comes from him literally transcending the infinite multiverse, which a lot of other Low 1-C verses have as evidence for why they're Low 1-C. (Not saying specific names)

So no, Low 1-C should stay.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Yemma is just ******* around

 

[ShivaShakti]

I am going to assume this was posted in jest.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Agreed. Just nuke it

Btw, I only agreed to transduality; rest I am neutral.

 

[Aether2734]

Btw, I only agreed to transduality; rest I am neutral.

What was summary different of new TD than old one?

 

[ImmortalDread]

What was summary different of new TD than old one?

You should have at least 5 truth state to be qualified

 

[Orioreeem]

You should have at least 5 truth state to be qualified

That's for type 3 Arceus is type 2

 

[ImmortalDread]

That's for type 3 Arceus is type 2

I thought he wanted to downgrade TD type 3 lolll. Mb

 

[Sniper670]

Anyways, the Low 1-C stuff comes from him literally transcending the infinite multiverse, which a lot of other Low 1-C verses have as evidence for why they're Low 1-C. (Not saying specific names)

So no, Low 1-C should stay.

You mean Arceus realm being "Beyond Space and Time"?

The Japanese version says Arceus dimension is a space far outside regular space time that'll be just range. Everything mentioned as a justification for low 1C is bad and don't qualify.

Now, The only way I'm seeing low 1C here. As @Executor_N0 mentioned, and I'll be borrowing a lot from him

The space-time cosmology is a result of cognition manifesting from inside the Heart and does complement the notion of superiority over/being beyond the structure of space-time

In dictionaries it's stated that "Kokoro"(心) refers to "the source of human mental activity", "the action of the very human psyche", "the totality of knowledge, emotions and intention".
So we can understand that the Original Spirit is the Primordial Consciousness that is the source of all that exists.

First of all, the idea of cosmology that is being used for Arceus is that of a transcendental God that created the world by manifestations of itself. You have this one Heart/Spirit that is everything in a state of "nothing is different, everything is the same" that starts to "think" and results in the manifestation (Not really creation in the most literal sense of the world) of Bunshins of Time, Space and Anti-Matter and later of Knowledge, Willpower and Emotion in order to "enrich" the inner "heart" of those who would be released later, as the world remains a product of cognition.

そう！　心の中では空間と時間はまじりあい、ポケモンも人も同じ存在だった・・・

Translation

Yes! Inside the spirit space and time were blended together, and Pokémon and people were the same thing...

The Pokémon, Arceus, creator of the multiverse, is a manifestation of the Heart/Spirit.

そうなると世界を　作ったというポケモンは、心の表れとも考えられるかなー！？ 　 ふむふむ・・・ 心が芽生えて、世界ができた・・・　、心が育って時間、空間が生まれた・・

Translation

Then, the Pokémon that created the world could be considered a manifestation of the heart...? Uh-huh... When the spirit sprouted, the world was created... When the spirit grew up, space, time were born...

Alternative Translation from a Japanese speaker. It's clear here that the cosmology is simply a representation of this Spirit/Heart

I guess you could think that this kind of world was a representation of the spirit of the Pokémon who created it!? Uh-huh... When the spirit sprouted, the world was created... When the spirit grew up, space, time were born...

The World expands as the Heart/Spirit enriches. And this Spirit is beyond space and time.

 

[y3p_owo]

You mean Arceus realm being "Beyond Space and Time"?

The Japanese version says Arceus dimension is a space far outside regular space time that'll be just range. Everything mentioned as a justification for low 1C is bad and don't qualify.

That'll still be Low 1-C. It's literally just a fancy way of saying it's beyond space and time. Idk what to tell ya man.

 

[Sniper670]

Yes
But I don't see that justification on the page. What does Hoopa rings or Arceus dimension have to do with low 1C ratings?

 

[y3p_owo]

While I can't remember what the reasoning for Hoopa's rings were, but I'm sure ProfessorKukui4Life could likely answer that, the dimension stuff is saying that Arceus' true form is Low 1-C. It's his dimension, meaning he likely created it, and he exists in it without any outside force allowing him to be in it unlike the player, who was only able to be in there due to Arceus allowing him to be.

 

[Sniper670]

The Original Spirit does not exist in any dimension. Time and Space and everything exists inside of him, as was mentioned earlier

Everything in the multiverse is merely the inner workings of the Spirit. So yeah, his realm is not low 1C as far as I can tell.

It is the Pokémon, Arceus, who lives in it, not his True Form

 

[y3p_owo]

The Original Spirit does not exist in any dimension. Time and Space and everything exists inside of him, as was mentioned earlier

We literally see it in the opening cutscene talking about you being in it's world, so yeah it does exist in a dimension.

Everything in the multiverse is merely the inner workings of the Spirit. So yeah, his realm is not low 1C as far as I can tell.

Said realm is literally stated to be beyond/outside time and space, so it is Low 1-C.

It is the Pokémon, Arceus, who lives in it, not his True Form

Except we literally get to see his true form. The light we see in the opening is it. The reason why the Pokémon Arceus is in there is so they can test the player.

 

[Sniper670]

We literally see it in the opening cutscene talking about you being in it's world, so yeah it does exist in a dimension.

Arceus ≠ The Original Spirit

Get that right

Said realm is literally stated to be beyond/outside time and space, so it is Low 1-C.

That's not low 1C. His space is out of the multiverse. How does this make it 5 Dimensional?

Except we literally get to see his true form. The light we see in the opening is it. The reason why the Pokémon Arceus is in there is so they can test the player.

Don't attribute Arceus for the Original Spirit. The Original Spirit is in everything and nowhere.

If the Original Spirit had any form at all, then he wouldn't need to manifest Arceus to create the multiverse.

Plus, he's quite literally bigger than the multiverse, as the multiverse is contained inside him.

So. Your headcannon won't work here. The light you saw was Arceus, the Pokémon, not the Original Spirit

 

[y3p_owo]

Arceus ≠ The Original Spirit

Get that right

That doesn't disprove anything. The light saying "it's what the humans call Arceus" is it giving the player a name to call it. Like even the Original Spirit isn't it's actual name, as humans gave it that name as well.

That's not low 1C. His space is out of the multiverse. How does this make it 5 Dimensional?

Because it's outside of the infinite time and space of an infinite multiverse? Like basically every other verse who has Low 1-C?

Don't attribute Arceus for the Original Spirit. The Original Spirit is in everything and nowhere.

If the Original Spirit had any form at all, then he wouldn't need to manifest Arceus to create the multiverse.

Plus, he's quite literally bigger than the multiverse, as the multiverse is contained inside him.

Ok, doesn't really disproves anything. Arceus and the Original Spirit are like Darkseid and his avatars, it's a way for them to interact with the world. That's why Arceus, the avatar, exists, it's for the Original Spirit to actually interact with the world.


Anyways, if you're just made this thread because of the plate revision stuff, then just stop man.

 

[Dereck03]

I wonder where all this discussion was when the upgrade was first brought in.

Anyways, if you're just made this thread because of the plate revision stuff, then just stop man.

Exactly this.

 

[Sniper670]

That doesn't disprove anything. The light saying "it's what the humans call Arceus" is it giving the player a name to call it. Like even the Original Spirit isn't it's actual name, as humans gave it that name as well.

"I am that which humans call Arceus" means nothing when he immediately follows up with

Soon thou shalt find thyself in a world strange to thee... A world inhabited by wondrous creatures that humans call “Pokémon.”

Plus, as I mentioned earlier Arceus ≠ Original Spirit. So your answer is right there in front of you. The thing speaking is just Arceus, not the The Original Spirit

Because it's outside of the infinite time and space of an infinite multiverse? Like basically every other verse who has Low 1-C?

That's just range

Ok, doesn't really disproves anything. Arceus and the Original Spirit are like Darkseid and his avatars, it's a way for them to interact with the world. That's why Arceus, the avatar, exists, it's for the Original Spirit to actually interact with the world.

Good. So in the end, the dimension has nothing to do with the Original Spirit. It's just the home of Arceus, the Pokémon.

How do you take it as the spirit is in a dimension if he's encompassing the multiverse and beyond. Doesn't even makes sense when you think about it

 

[ImmortalDread]

Am not really expert on this earth? But what is his reasoning for keeping his current tier, and what is the counter-argument for this?

 

[y3p_owo]

"I am that which humans call Arceus" means nothing when he immediately follows up with

Ok... And this disproves what exactly?

Plus, as I mentioned earlier Arceus ≠ Original Spirit. So your answer is right there in front of you. The thing speaking is just Arceus, not the The Original Spirit

They're the same being. Like, it doesn't matter what name each other has, cause at the end of the day they're the same being. Just one's an avatar and one's it's actual form.

That's just range

…No, it's not. If that's the case, then make a downgrade a other verses who have Low 1-C, cause that's the exact reasoning for why they have that.

Good. So in the end, the dimension has nothing to do with the Original Spirit. It's just the home of Arceus, the Pokémon.

Except no, the light literally says it's their dimension. The light is the Original Spirit. It calls itself Arceus because it's giving you, the player, a name to call it as it doesn't have one and it's one that everyone usually calls it.

How do you take it as Arceus is in a dimension if he's encompassing the multiverse and beyond. Doesn't even makes sense when you think about it

The dimension that Arceus/the Original Spirit has is beyond the multiverse, so to does make sense since said dimension is beyond the multiverse. What doesn't is your arguments.

 

[y3p_owo]

Am not really expert on this earth? But what is his reasoning for keeping his current tier, and what is the counter-argument for this?

He's known as the God who transcends all and his dimension is beyond the infinite time and space of an infinite multiverse with everything being nothing more than a mere aspect of itself.

The counterpoints are just ignoring that the light is the Original Spirit's true form and the bare standard of what getting Low 1-C is on this site.

 

[ImmortalDread]

He's known as the God who transcends all and his dimension is beyond the infinite time and space of an infinite multiverse with everything being nothing more than a mere aspect of itself.

The counterpoints are just ignoring that the light is the Original Spirit's true form and the bare standard of what getting Low 1-C is on this site.

Any valid proof of this? Can you state them tho?

 

[y3p_owo]

Here's the stuff for the "God who transcends all" stuff and here's the dimension stuff.

And what do you mean by state them?

 

[ImmortalDread]

Here's the stuff for the "God who transcends all" stuff

Is there any other proof? Seems vague for me.

and here's the dimension stuff.

I will check

And what do you mean by state them?

send*

 

[ImmortalDread]

I checked the YT video you sent, the only statement I see is beyond time and space

 

[Sniper670]

They're the same being. Like, it doesn't matter what name each other has, cause at the end of the day they're the same being. Just one's an avatar and one's it's actual form

Arceus ≠ Original Spirit. He literally manifested Arceus to make the multiverse.

Of course everything is part of it. The multiverse is a representation of the Spirit afterall

…No, it's not. If that's the case, then make a downgrade a other verses who have Low 1-C, cause that's the exact reasoning for why they have that.

It's just range. Dragon Ball is another example of range thing

Except no, the light literally says it's their dimension. The light is the Original Spirit. It calls itself Arceus because it's giving you, the player, a name to call it as it doesn't have one and it's one that everyone usually calls it.

I'll repeat, how does the Original Spirit live in a space when everything is inside of it?
And no Original Spirit ≠ Arceus. The dimension is for the Pokémon Arceus. It's even in the anime and manga as well

The dimension that Arceus/the Original Spirit has is beyond the multiverse, so to does make sense since said dimension is beyond the multiverse. What doesn't is your arguments.

It's not transcendent. It's just outside space and time as Cogita mentions

 

[y3p_owo]

Is there any other proof? Seems vague for me.

That's all there is for that.

I checked the YT video you sent, the only statement I see is beyond time and space

Yes, which is infinite as stated by word of god, which means it's transcending the multiverse.

 

[Sniper670]

I checked the YT video you sent, the only statement I see is beyond time and space

How does that translate to low 1C

 

[ImmortalDread]

How does that translate to low 1C

IT is way vague, we stopped using those as evidences lol

 

[ImmortalDread]

That's all there is for that.

Yes, which is infinite as stated by word of god, which means it's transcending the multiverse.

We stopped using author statements, I thought?

 

[y3p_owo]

Arceus ≠ Original Spirit. He literally manifested Arceus to make the multiverse.

Of course everything is part of it. The multiverse is a representation of the Spirit afterall

Still doesn't disprove anything.

It's just range. Dragon Ball is another example of range thing

Well if we're just going to name drop verses now, Archie Sonic is Low 1-C for the exact reasons as to why Arceus is.

I'll repeat, how does the Original Spirit live in a space when everything is inside of it?

The same reason why Giratina is the Distortion World despite being sealed in it.

And no Original Spirit ≠ Arceus. The dimension is for the Pokémon Arceus. It's even in the anime and manga as well

They're literally the same being. The only difference is that one's the avatar and the other is it's true form. So Arceus' dimension is still the Origin Spirit's. Hell, even IF you want to argue that the dimension is for the avatar and the avatar alone, that doesn't mean that the Origin Spirit isn't Low 1-C since either it created that dimension or it upscales Arceus, who made it.

It's not transcendent. It's just outside space and time as Cogita mentions

Being outside can mean transcendent. And seeing as the English version full on said it's beyond, meaning outside, of time and space, it should mean that Arceus/Original Spirit/Llama Jesus' dimension is Low 1-C.

 

[Sniper670]

IT is way vague, we stopped using those as evidences lol

Not just vague. He dead ass said "located beyond both time and space"

It's not some higher dimension or anything

 

[y3p_owo]

We stopped using author statements, I thought?

No we haven't.

 

[Sniper670]

Still doesn't disprove anything.

Well if we're just going to name drop verses now, Archie Sonic is Low 1-C for the exact reasons as to why Arceus is.

It's not. It's made clear that they ascended into a Higher Plane.

The same reason why Giratina is the Distortion World despite being sealed in it.

It is the Distortion world itself

They're literally the same being. The only difference is that one's the avatar and the other is it's true form. So Arceus' dimension is still the Origin Spirit's. Hell, even IF you want to argue that the dimension is for the avatar and the avatar alone, that doesn't mean that the Origin Spirit isn't Low 1-C since either it created that dimension or it upscales Arceus, who made it.

They're not the same being. Original Spirit manifested a Pokémon to create the world. Everything in the cosmology is just the inner workings. Nothing exists outside the original spirit so No, the Original Spirit isn't in any dimension, it rather encompasses everything in himself

And.

Where is your proof that the Original Spirit exists in Arceus dimension. Where is it?

Being outside can mean transcendent. And seeing as the English version full on said it's beyond, meaning outside, of time and space, it should mean that Arceus/Original Spirit/Llama Jesus' dimension is Low 1-C.

Arceus, the Pokémon is nowhere near low 1C. again, it's made clear Arceus dimension is just a location thing. It's a space outside the universe, not a bigger infinity than the 2A structure. Nowhere close to higher dimensional or 5D

 

[y3p_owo]

Not just vague. He dead ass said "located beyond both time and space"

It's not some higher dimension or anything

That's legit the requirement for being Low 1-C though. So yes, it is a higher dimension by the standard of the site. If you want, you can make a CRT about the standards of tier 1 if you disagree.


Like seriously dude, if this is about the plates revision stuff, then just stop.

 

[ImmortalDread]

No we haven't.

Yes we do?????? Imao

 

[ImmortalDread]

That's legit the requirement for being Low 1-C though. So yes, it is a higher dimension by the standard of the site. If you want, you can make a CRT about the standards of tier 1 if you disagree.


Like seriously dude, if this is about the plates revision stuff, then just stop.

No it is not????????????? Thats vague