Pokemon - Arceus and his Plate abilities?

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Let's use this scenario here

Psychic energy manipulation = moves

Plate = Essence of Psychic Energy.

Literally confirmed few days ago Pokémon just manipulate energy that exists inside them to use their powers. The plates have the essence of it all. So he can manipulate it to replicate any move he wants

The only hindrance is a non issue. Knowledge as a concept is an aspect of him

Arceus is getting that he can use the moves of the types. So this is just you arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

[Sniper670]

The thread is over.

The argument was addressed already.

Your arguments are circular and have been for the last 5 pages.

Nobody is entitled to respond in a thread that is done.

Please shut up about this.

It's not over UNTIL you address the argument.

Saying "it's over", does not address the argument

 

[InfiniteDay]

DT? Why should DT argument be taken into argument when his argument falls apart once you understand that the concept of knowledge is an aspect of himself

No, we're not going to ignore that to get the crt through.. And if he fails to make it here, then his vote won't count

Ignoring that will be like this

"Okay, you made an argument refuting DT, but DT never made it back, so we're just going to ignore you're refutation and get it through"

Does that make any sense to you my guy?

DT's vote should count because

A. You can't just invalidate votes you absolute buffoon

B. The thread is over and he's not entitled to respond to you

C. Your arguments are circular anyway

DT's vote will count. This is how vsbw works, if you don't like it then you can leave.

 

[Sniper670]

Arceus is getting that he can use the moves of the types. So this is just you arguing for the sake of arguing.

Ooh?

He's getting what the plates gave to Pokémon. It's that simple

 

[InfiniteDay]

It's not over UNTIL you address the argument.

Saying "it's over", does not address the argument

Your arguments are circular. The thread is over and nobody needs to respond to them. Shut.

 

[Sniper670]

DT's vote should count because

A. You can't just invalidate votes you absolute buffoon

B. The thread is over and he's not entitled to respond to you

C. Your arguments are circular anyway

DT's vote will count. This is how vsbw works, if you don't like it then you can leave.

Okay.. DT argument

1. Arceus won't have the technical knowledge to use the powers


It won't work. The concept of knowledge is an aspect of Arceus


His point is invalid UNTIL he makes it here

 

[Sniper670]

Your arguments are circular. The thread is over and nobody needs to respond to them. Shut.

1.It's not over
2. You're in the minority
3. You're screaming "it's over" while FAILING to address the argument

 

[InfiniteDay]

1.It's not over
2. You're in the minority
3. You're screaming "it's over" while FAILING to address the argument

1. All votes have been counted and Ant has stated the thread could be applied.
2. We have the voting majority when it comes to voting power and staff, so this thread will be passed.
3. Because we are not going to address your circular arguments in a thread that is over.

This will be my last post on this matter, since filling up this thread is pointless.

 

[Sniper670]

So I still remain in my position that the plates have type energies in them on which Arceus can draw, but that there is absolutely nothing indicating that he can use all techniques associated with a type, much less the technique of every Pokémon.

Okay.

1. Pokémon manipulate the energy to use their powers.
2. To say Arceus cannot use techniques of others, you're saying he wouldn't know how to manipulate said energy to use the moves. Won't work, Knowledge is an aspect of Arceus
3. This is supported by the fact that the plates make it clear, it has the power of everything



Now to Iamunanimousinthat. You said, it's only general abilities. Show me where it was mentioned that the plates allows Arceus only to use general abilities. I'll wait

 

[Sniper670]

1. All votes have been counted and Ant has stated the thread could be applied.

DT has not addressed the argument. Which is why he was tagged.
If I wasn't making sense, Ant would be agreed to Iamunanimousinthat proposal without wasting any time to call DT

2. We have the voting majority when it comes to voting power and staff, so this thread will be passed.

You're in the minority. 4 staff are against you. 16 regulars are against you..

Keep dreaming

3. Because we are not going to address your circular arguments in a thread that is over.

Because there was new evidence that was brought up days ago, and the concept of knowledge being as aspect of Arceus was something I didn't remember back when DT made his argument.

I do now. And I've brought them here. You're simply ignoring everything with no sign that you'll attempt to address anything

This will be my last post on this matter, since filling up this thread is pointless.

Goodbye

 

[InfiniteDay]

You're in the minority. 4 staff are against you. 16 regulars are against you..

This is blatant lying and you know it. It's 15 regular against and no staff agrees that plates are good enough evidence for Arceus to have it. If you continue with this false narrative I will bring this to RVR.

If I wasn't making sense, Ant would be agreed to Iamunanimousinthat proposal without wasting any time to call DT

Ant doesn't think your making sense, he's making sure DT is notified. There is nothing to this.

Cease and desist.

 

[Sniper670]

This is blatant lying and you know it. It's 15 regular against and no staff agrees that plates are good enough evidence for Arceus to have it. If you continue with this false narrative I will bring this to RVR.

Where TF did I lie?
Main argument on op, Arceus loses everything. 4 staff disagree, 2 neutral, they still lean against op main argument . Take me to RVR. Take me there now

Okay, this shit seriously getting on my nerves. Lemme bold it for you, in case you can't see it well

ADDRESS THE ARGUMENT

Ant doesn't think your making sense, he's making sure DT is notified. There is nothing to this.

I know Ant. If I wasn't making sense then he'd literally tell me to quit whining the staff

 

[Sniper670]

Honestly, it's, clear @InfiniteDay has nothing to offer. He's clearly not going to address the argument, and push for a conclusion. And for some reason he thinks he's in the majority

 

[InfiniteDay]

Where TF did I lie?
Main argument on op, Arceus loses everything. 4 staff disagree, 2 neutral, they still lean against op main argument . Take me to RVR. Take me there now

2 are neutral. No staff disagree as none of them believe that plates are valid. Inconclusive isn't disagree. If you even cared to check your own damn vote tally, you'll see that 4 staff do not disagree.

I know Ant. If I wasn't making sense then he'd literally tell me to quit whining the staff

Homie, Ant is extremely busy and so couldn't care less that your whining in this thread, he just saw people wanted DT and as such pinged DT.

Honestly, it's, clear @InfiniteDay has nothing to offer. He's clearly not going to address the argument, and push for a conclusion. And for some reason he thinks he's in the majority

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem

Here's a helpful site for you to use before you commit fallacious arguments!

And yes, I will be taking you to RVR next post if you continue to misrepresent the vote counts. For the love of god, just admit your wrong about them.

 

[Sniper670]

2 are neutral. No staff disagree as none of them believe that plates are valid. Inconclusive isn't disagree. If you even cared to check your own damn vote tally, you'll see that 4 staff do not disagree.

No one ******* cares.

Again. The recent evidence supports what was mentioned on the plates.

Psychic energy = manipulated to use moves

Plate= Has the Essence of Psychic Energy

Concept of knowledge is an aspect of Arceus so saying he wouldn't know how to manipulate it to moves won't work. Supported by the fact that it's mentioned that the plate has the power of everything

Tha main point here is two are neutral, leaning towards disagree, the other two do not agree with OP.

OP arguments is to remove abilities from Arceus. No? Yes

Homie, Ant is extremely busy and so couldn't care less that your whining in this thread, he just saw people wanted DT and as such pinged DT.

Hes not a robot. He saw the post lol

Here's a helpful site for you to use before you commit fallacious arguments!

And yes, I will be taking you to RVR next post if you continue to misrepresent the vote counts. For the love of god, just admit your wrong about them.

What are you waiting for? Do you need my permission?

Take me to RVR.

I love the fact the you're more concerned about the votes(of which you're in a minority might I add) than actually addressing the argument. Is it hard to do?

 

[InfiniteDay]

No one ******* cares.

Again. The recent evidence supports what was mentioned on the plates.

Psychic energy = manipulated to use moves

Plate= Has the Essence of Psychic Energy

The Plates do not have the essence of psychic energy, and even if they did that wouldn't grant Arceus the ability to use every move, jus physic energy in general.

Considering you still are misrepresenting votes and saying that neutral people should count as disagree, consider your request granted.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

The Plates do not have the essence of psychic energy,

Huh? That's almost verbatim what the plate says. Do you really want to see that quote again on this thread?

Also, even the op acknowledges Arceus does have the moves. What he's not getting is physiology stuff from every pokemon.

 

[Sniper670]

The Plates do not have the essence of psychic energy, and even if they did that wouldn't grant Arceus the ability to use every move, jus physic energy in general.

Okay. So youve been proven wrong. And you ignored everything about Pokémon manipulating energy to use their powers

A stone tablet imbued with the essence of psychic energy. When used on a certain Pokémon, it allows that Pokémon to gain the power of the Psychic type.

So yes. Arceus has the concept of it. What makes Psychic Energy, energy.

Considering you still are misrepresenting votes and saying that neutral people should count as disagree, consider your request granted.

I appreciate

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Sniper/Yemma, stop stonewalling. It has been accepted Arceus gets the moves, but not everything else. Even Cal agrees to that.

 

[Sniper670]

This confirms it, @InfiniteDay literally didn't pay any attention to what was mentioned here. He's contributed nothing but push for votes.

 

[Sniper670]

Sniper/Yemma, stop stonewalling. It has been accepted Arceus gets the moves, but not everything else. Even Cal agrees to that.

Look. What exactly does he lose anyway?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Look. What exactly does he lose anyway?

Literally you have been told this for 5 entire pages. He would lose stuff like Cryogonal regeneration, Magcargo's surface temperature, etc etc etc. Have you been paying attention?

 

[Sniper670]

Literally you have been told this for 5 entire pages. He would lose stuff like Cryogonal regeneration, Magcargo's surface temperature, etc etc etc. Have you been paying attention?

There's no reason he loses any of that

Cryogonal exist as he is because of the ice energy that exists inside them. Which also acts as their life force.

Recent trailer literally confirms their types define their physiology

So I see no reason why Arceus with the Essence of ice can't do what he can.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Oh my lord...

 

[Sniper670]

Yes. You can go argue with Game Freak about it

 

[InfiniteDay]

I have sent the report on RVR. It would be best for you to respond it.

 

[Sniper670]

Alright

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

The best part? All of that is useless. Because Arceus will get it anyways by usage of Transform or simply summoning the Pokemon. The point is to acknowledge that he doesn't have them by default. Which is 100% true.

The fact you are now bringing straight up headcanon to argue otherwise is annoying as hell. Prove Cryogonal and every other pokemon have their biological components because of their typing.

And no, recent trailer does not prove it. It's an insane stretch that only two people here support anyways. Stop stonewalling, period.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

This is why I took a break from Pokémon on this site.

At this point both sides are equally guilty for their behaviour on this thread from stonewalling to snarky comments to argument from ignorance to threats, its pretty obvious to me this CRT is an unholy mess. I'm neutral on this on viture. The "conclusion" of a major CRT should be reached via solid arguments not by a numbers game nor by the opinions of one or two staff members nor by applying the changes when the opposition haven't conceded.

Tl;dr: There's so much ill will (intentional or not) on this CRT that I can't trust either side to argue in good faith anymore.

If we compare the texts of all kinds of different languages let me add the german one:

Which translates to
"This stone plate inhabits a universal (as in general purpose) energy. If it is used on a certain Pokémon, it gains the strength of all types."


So I still remain in my position that the plates have type energies in them on which Arceus can draw, but that there is absolutely nothing indicating that he can use all techniques associated with a type, much less the technique of every Pokémon.

I don't particularily care about whether other Pokémon draw their power/energy from the plates or not. It's of no consequence to anyone's ranking or abilities IMO.

^While this is good staff input this was from almost a fortnight and multiple pages ago, so I'm not sure if this still applies to the current debate but at least @Iamunanimousinthat actually some showed evidence of staff concessions, meanwhile...

DT argument has been refuted. Knowledge is something Arceus made from himself, so there's nothing others can use the energy for, that Arceus wouldn't be able to manipulate to do

In fact, I'd say we remove DT from the vote until he comes here to address the argument. His argument is redundant

Actually no. DT never agreed to any of that.

In fact the argument DT has does not fall in line with any of op arguments.

It still leads to the same conclusion... That Arceus should lose his powers

@Sniper670 ^Literally moved the goalposts.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

This is why I took a break from Pokémon on this site.

******* same.

 

[Sniper670]

The best part? All of that is useless. Because Arceus will get it anyways by usage of Transform or simply summoning the Pokemon. The point is to acknowledge that he doesn't have them by default. Which is 100% true.

He gets them by default. Literally the power of EVERYTHING is in the plates

FF sake. How does one go about ignoring blatant stuff like this

The fact you are now bringing straight up headcanon to argue otherwise is annoying as hell. Prove Cryogonal and every other pokemon have their biological components because of their typing.

It's not headcannon
1. Dragon Energy, where the opponent literally fires the raw element, is mentioned to use directly, the life force of the Pokémon

2. Latest Pokémon confirms that their powers are literally embedded inside of them for their main Typings, which they manipulate to use their powers

And no, recent trailer does not prove it. It's an insane stretch that only two people here support anyways. Stop stonewalling, period.

It's not. And what exactly did you bring to the table?, nothing at all

 

[DontTalkDT]

Really busy right now so not much time to contribute here.

But to say it briefly: I don't consider creating (the concept of) knowledge a feat granting Arceus complete knowledge about all things or knowledge on how or perform every move in particular, especially not in such details. Noah created the concept of knowledge and information, too, and is far from omniscient. There's really not much reason a being that creates the concept of knowledge would need to have access to all knowledge and Arceus has be depicted as not all knowing on several occassions. (e.g. the meteor movie or PMD against Dark Matter. Possibly others, too) I expect to be told those to be inconsistencies, but since the claim has nearly no fundament to stand on anyway...
Additionally, knowledge and talent are arguably two different things. If you give a Pikachu knowledge on all electric-type moves it would likely still not be able to use all of them. Arceus is, in principle, in no other situation, as it just uses the same type of power as Pikachu.

Given that no information that was new to me was added I remain at my prior position. (mostly saying it because apparently there was debate about my vote or somethin'. If this has reached some conclusion proceed as you were)

 

[Moritzva]

Has the thread's conclusions been applied?

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Has the thread's conclusions been applied?

Not yet. I need the page to be opened.

 

[Sniper670]

Really busy right now so not much time to contribute here.

But to say it briefly: I don't consider creating (the concept of) knowledge a feat granting Arceus complete knowledge about all things or knowledge on how or perform every move in particular, especially not in such details. Noah created the concept of knowledge and information, too, and is far from omniscient. There's really not much reason a being that creates the concept of knowledge would need to have access to all knowledge and Arceus has be depicted as not all knowing on several occassions. (e.g. the meteor movie or PMD against Dark Matter. Possibly others, too)

The concept of knowledge is an aspect of Arceus, literally part of him, an extension if you will. This is not omnipresence, so I wouldn't say both cases are pis in the least.

None of what you said devalues the nature of Arceus and the concept of knowledge

I expect to be told those to be inconsistencies, but since the claim has nearly no fundament to stand on anyway...

They're not. It doesn't help your argument tho

Additionally, knowledge and talent are arguably two different things. If you give a Pikachu knowledge on all electric-type moves it would likely still not be able to use all of them. Arceus is, in principle, in no other situation, as it just uses the same type of power as Pikachu.

Knowledge comes with all the baggage as talent. That's what spirit, in Pokémon is, it encompasses all things.

Now the plates are literally part of Arceus, so there's no reason as to why he cannot manipulate it as well as a Pikachu can manipulate electric energy to use lightning.

Which is why, on the plates, it's mentioned that he has the power of everything. Supported by several translations

Given that no information that was new to me was added I remain at my prior position.

Okay.. Your arguments still doesn't hold.

 

[Sniper670]

Not yet. I need the page to be opened.

Actually no.

Your page has not been accepted.

Agnaa was going to comment on my page, your page is irrelevant to the discussion

 

[Moritzva]

Not yet. I need the page to be opened.

I lack the permissions to do so, so I'll leave it to someone else.

 

[Sniper670]

I lack the permissions to do so, so I'll leave it to someone else.

No. Agnaa is commenting on my page.

His page is barebones and leaves a lot of stuff.

 

[Chariot190]

Ironic as it may be, Arceus has been depicted with the ability "Omniscience" before, which basically functions as an auto-evade, much like the ability Instinct, as he knows the attacks will come ahead of time due to what I would assume to be, the name of the ability, omniscience.

I'd say it's less "He's been depicted as not knowing things" and more "pokemon is hilariously inconsistent lmao and you'd be lucky to find a single thing that is actually 100% consistent".

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Not yet. I need the page to be opened.

You can ask to get the page unlocked here:

https://vsbattles.com/threads/all-purpose-request-thread-new-forum.107534/page-85