Pokemon - Arceus and his Plate abilities?

[Sniper670]

The scan for being the source of a pokemon's power is just Arceus sharing power to people,

Can I ask what power he's sharing in the first Place?
I'd like to hear your thoughts

and the plates giving the holder the ability to change types.

OP tried to use this argument, which I debunked. The plates give Arceus the power of the type he assumes

Having the essence of the fire type isn't even evidence you have all the abilities of the fire type.

Pokémon manipulates fire energy to use fire

Arceus has the essence of Fire Type. Literally the meaning of essence, what makes something what it fundamentally is.

It's more than evident that God who gave powers to the multiverse can use such powers

An all encompassing being is just someone who's omnipresent, Palkia is also omnipresent, are we gonna give Palkia's true form Arceus avatar's powers too? Pokemon have grown ever since they were created, so I don't know why the plates would have all the powers of the present Pokemon

This is a non argument. Porygon, a man made Pokémon is literally drawing power from psychic energy. And guess who has the Essence of Psychic Energy, God

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Okay. That is probably fine to apply then.

Can the Arceus profile be unlocked so I can apply the changes.

Okay. So upon looking at the Japanese translation, here's what it says :



Which Translates to



This Tells us two things:

1. Pokémon physiology is described by the energy they're proficient in using. In this case, he has fire energy in him, as well as psychic energy. This will, also explain each and every physiology of every Pokémon in existence. Slugma has the physiology of flames because he has the affinity for it, ie. He has the fire energy within him. A water Pokémon with a water physiology has within him, the energy of water. And so on. It's also even the case with Regidrago



And Regieleki :


The move Dragon Energy, for instance, has the user literally translate his life force into power. So the energy is literally their Pokémon Life Force themselves




2. Which is the main argument, is that Pokémon manipulate energy or something akin to that to use their powers. In this case it is manipulating psychic energy to use Psychic moves, as well as using the psychic energy to manipulate the fire energy inside him to use fire moves.

Now let's see what the Mind Plate Says about the Psychic Energy:



What does this tell us. That while other Pokémon can manipulate psychic energy to use moves, Arceus has, directly, the very Essence of Psychic Energy. Let's see what Essence means:



What does this tell us. That Arceus literally has the concept of Psychic Energy that he uses. The fundamental property of psychic energy. And this extends to each and every plate . As Arceus has the essence of them

The only argument I can see being put here is what DT mentioned. That the fact he has the energy(or the concept of it in this case), doesn't mean he has the intelligence or the know-how to manipulate it. This won't work here, as the concept of Knowledge is an extension and an aspect of Arceus.

All this falls in line with the entire multiverse literally being just an extension of himself. Which is why even man made Pokémon like Porygon, are also using psychic energy amongst other things. As I mentioned several times, no power exists outside the plates. So saying Arceus cannot use a power is silly as ****.

omg
Its over. Stop extending this.

The quote says the pokemon gets its energy from its armor. That null and voids your plate argument completely. The plates do not bestow pokemon their powers.

and now you’re trying argue that because the plates are imbued with essence of types (not that they are the essence of types mind you) arceus should be able to do everything.

but it has already been decided, that based on actual showings, not your personal conjectures, that Arceus can change his type with the plates and use the moves of the types. He does not get the abilities of all pokemon, just the ones he has been shown to have, and he does not get the powers of pokemon and non-pokemon that do not come from specific moves.

stop drawing this out.

 

[Sniper670]

Can the Arceus profile be unlocked so I can apply the changes.

Actually no. Theres No changes to be made if you decide to ignore all argument

omg
Its over. Stop extending this.

Thank you, for ignoring the argument

The quote says the pokemon gets its energy from its armor. That null and voids your plate argument completely. The plates do not bestow pokemon their powers.

Actually. No. The armor has psychic energy, which the Pokémon manipulates to use its moves

and now you’re trying argue that because the plates are imbued with essence of types (not that they are the essence of types mind you) arceus should be able to do everything.

Yes. Arceus has the very Essence of psychic energy. Literally the concept of it. So yes, just as the plates says. It allows him to use the power of the Psychic Type

but it has already been decided, that based on actual showings, not your personal conjectures, that Arceus can change his type with the plates and use the moves of the types. He does not get the abilities of all pokemon, just the ones he has been shown to have, and he does not get the powers of pokemon and non-pokemon that do not come from specific moves.

If the energy that Arceus has is what they're using, then I see no reason why he wouldn't be able to do what they can. Can you give an actual reason as to why it wouldn't work? Rather that drawing to your own conclusions

stop drawing this out.

Address the argument. This was info released a few days ago which fully confirmed some things

 

[Sniper670]

If you don't address the argument, the this CRT won't go anywhere

This place is not a bias where we'll ignore every argument to apply changes. If yih can it address the argument, then get mods to close this

 

[Sniper670]

Please just let me do it, your messing up the links and aren't counting up the people correctly.

Agrees: 9 Regular + 3 Staff (@Iamunanimousinthat, @Hasty12345, @Rikimarox2, @InfiniteDay, @Paul_Frank, @Comicgyal, @DontTalkDT, @JoshSSJGod, @TheGreatMaster12, @Antvasima, @Paul_Frank, @Maverick_Zero_X

Disagrees: 15 Regular + 2 staff (@Yemma670, @Arceus0x, @Chariot190, @Thelastmlg, @The_Pink_God, @JustANormalPerson01, @hajime, @Robot972, @Moritzva, @ZetaMarishi, @Milly_Rocking_Bandit, @Pikaman, @GodlyCharmander, @Luckyfun , @Faron25 @The_real_cal_howard, @Agnaa(some things need to change, but I'm waiting for the specifics)

Inconclusive/No Opinion: 3 regular + 1 Staff @Everything12(Agrees with True Form Arceus having everything), @Purgy (fine with Possibly), @Zencha9 (Agreed with True Form Having it), @Vietthai96, @Dereck03 (leaning towards disagreeing with op)

 

[Sniper670]

Don't act as if you're in the majority.

 

[Hasty12345]

Don't act as if you're in the majority.

He’s not, as you’ve pointed out, he has staff majority.

and your arguments have been the same since page 1 and have already been thoroughly debunked.

 

[Sniper670]

Okay. Are you going to address the argument or not?

New argument was gotten from recent material. Which you've ignored in favor of closing this early. With 0 refutation

And you're in the minority here. At worst, Arceus True Form will get everything

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

agnaa did not comment here. Do not add them.
Also, ive read his arguments, he should be in the agree section if we go by what he said

 

[Sniper670]

He wouldn't.. And new material from recent trailers doesn't put things in your favor as well

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

If the energy that Arceus has is what they're using, then I see no reason why he wouldn't be able to do what they can. Can you give an actual reason as to why it wouldn't work? Rather that drawing to your own conclusion

By this logic then Kingdra should be able to do everything that Palkia does since they have the same typing.

 

[Sniper670]

It's the same reason why an abra does not have the same level of potency as an Alakazam

Completely different power levels

Oh, unless you want to argue a Pokémon has a higher power level than Arceus, be my guest

 

[Antvasima]

Actually no. DT never agreed to any of that.

In fact the argument DT has does not fall in line with any of op arguments.

It still leads to the same conclusion... That Arceus should lose his powers

Okay, so what does DontTalk want us to do then?

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Okay, so what does DontTalk want us to do then?

DT does agree. idk what yemma is talking about

 

[Sniper670]

Okay, so what does DontTalk want us to do then?

DT argument is that the fact Arceus has the energy, doesn't mean he has the proficiency, as others may have mastered it better than he is

The issue here is concept of knowledge is merely an aspect of Arceus, so there's nothing they can do that he can't do with said energy

 

[Pikaman]

Why don’t we actually ask DT what they agree with instead of turning this into some “he-said she-said” argument that will never be anything other than circular

 

[Sniper670]

Okay. So upon looking at the Japanese translation, here's what it says :



Which Translates to



This Tells us two things:

1. Pokémon physiology is described by the energy they're proficient in using. In this case, he has fire energy in him, as well as psychic energy. This will, also explain each and every physiology of every Pokémon in existence. Slugma has the physiology of flames because he has the affinity for it, ie. He has the fire energy within him. A water Pokémon with a water physiology has within him, the energy of water. And so on. It's also even the case with Regidrago



And Regieleki :


The move Dragon Energy, for instance, has the user literally translate his life force into power. So the energy is literally their Pokémon Life Force themselves




2. Which is the main argument, is that Pokémon manipulate energy or something akin to that to use their powers. In this case it is manipulating psychic energy to use Psychic moves, as well as using the psychic energy to manipulate the fire energy inside him to use fire moves.

Now let's see what the Mind Plate Says about the Psychic Energy:



What does this tell us. That while other Pokémon can manipulate psychic energy to use moves, Arceus has, directly, the very Essence of Psychic Energy. Let's see what Essence means:



What does this tell us. That Arceus literally has the concept of Psychic Energy that he uses. The fundamental property of psychic energy. And this extends to each and every plate . As Arceus has the essence of them

The only argument I can see being put here is what DT mentioned. That the fact he has the energy(or the concept of it in this case), doesn't mean he has the intelligence or the know-how to manipulate it. This won't work here, as the concept of Knowledge is an extension and an aspect of Arceus.

All this falls in line with the entire multiverse literally being just an extension of himself. Which is why even man made Pokémon like Porygon, are also using psychic energy amongst other things. As I mentioned several times, no power exists outside the plates. So saying Arceus cannot use a power is silly as ****.

Maybe we can tag mods to this for review. Especially DT himself.

As this has new information that supports some arguments I made earlier

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

It's the same reason why an abra does not have the same level of potency as an Alakazam

Completely different power levels

Oh, unless you want to argue a Pokémon has a higher power level than Arceus, be my guest

Okay, since you want to move goalposts then.

by your logic, Lunala should be able to do everything Hoopa can do since they’re both legendaries and have the same type.

 

[Sniper670]

Okay, since you want to move goalposts then.

by your logic, Lunala should be able to do everything Hoopa can do since they’re both legendaries and have the same type.

As I said before. No two Pokémon are the same.

But in the end, Arceus has the very essence of psychic energy,ie. What makes Psychic Energy, psychic energy. So he wouldn't have any problems using it

Besides, Hoopa has infinite power with the rings. Not exactly a fair comparison at all

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Actually no. DT never agreed to any of that.

In fact the argument DT has does not fall in line with any of op arguments.

It still leads to the same conclusion... That Arceus should lose his powers

DT does agree. idk what yemma is talking about

How about you both highlight the comment(s) DT made that falls in line with your PoV?, since giving misinformation is rightfully frowned upon.

Why don’t we actually ask DT what they agree with instead of turning this into some “he-said she-said” argument that will never be anything other than circular

I was going to say the same thing but he already has been tagged on multiple threads already and he isn't some omnipresent robot that doesn't need rest. Honestly it's poor practice relying on the knowledge of single staff member as a crux for a CRT to get accepted or rejected.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

So I still remain in my position that the plates have type energies in them on which Arceus can draw, but that there is absolutely nothing indicating that he can use all techniques associated with a type, much less the technique of every Pokémon.

I don't particularily care about whether other Pokémon draw their power/energy from the plates or not. It's of no consequence to anyone's ranking or abilities IMO.

Here is DT's stance.

 

[Antvasima]

Why are yall re-hashing this argument. It's done.

Arceus gets the powers he's shown he's done with the plates.
Arceus gets the power to use all pokemon moves. (I'll concede on that one even though personally I disagree)
He does not get the abilities of all pokemon.
He does not get the powers of pokemon that aren't specificly movesset, such as powers from Pokedex Entries.
He does not get the powers of any non-pokemon.

This is what DT has agreed to I think

Okay. That is probably fine to apply then.

Actually no. DT never agreed to any of that.

In fact the argument DT has does not fall in line with any of op arguments.

It still leads to the same conclusion... That Arceus should lose his powers

Okay, so what does DontTalk want us to do then?

DT does agree. idk what yemma is talking about

DT argument is that the fact Arceus has the energy, doesn't mean he has the proficiency, as others may have mastered it better than he is

The issue here is concept of knowledge is merely an aspect of Arceus, so there's nothing they can do that he can't do with said energy

Why don’t we actually ask DT what they agree with instead of turning this into some “he-said she-said” argument that will never be anything other than circular

Maybe we can tag mods to this for review. Especially DT himself.

As this has new information that supports some arguments I made earlier

@DontTalkDT

What do you think about this?

 

[Thelastmlg]

Description: the armor is the source of the psychic energy that it uses for it's moves

Plate: has the essence of psychic energy

"The description is about a biological thing"

This is actual stonewalling wtf, you are either not reading the description or twisting it in completely illogical ways, the description makes it clear that his armor simple contains the SAME THING THE MIND HAS THE ESSENCE OF and that said thing is used for the moves and you are somehow arguing that it is a "biological thing".

And you know what's funnier, the plates are also part of arceus in the same way armarogue's armor is his, so even if you argue it is somehow a purely biologival entry, it wouldn't matter because, in the same way armarogue uses the energy inside his armor for his moves, arceus can use the power inside his plates too.

And is hilarious that you are pushing for applying the changes before the other staff can replay, all while making nonsensical mental gymnastics and ignoring context.

Btw, for those repeating this, having 1 single extra staff in your side doesn't make this ready to be applied, it is only when the arguments are fully addressed by then all, especially the new ones, that it is fine.

Also wtf was that palkia argument, it doesn't have the essence of any type on it, the point is that moves use the energy of their types to be manifested, and even if some pokemon can't learn X or Y moves, the dude who literally has the types themselves as pieces of him should

 

[InfiniteDay]

Btw, for those repeating this, having 1 single extra staff in your side doesn't make this ready to be applied, it is only when the arguments are fully addressed by then all, especially the new ones, that it is fine.

Actually, it does. This CRT is absolutely over and any attempt to continue in this thread doesn't change the outcome. Seriously, this is pointless and we are not required to respond to any future points.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Description: the armor is the source of the psychic energy that it uses for it's moves

Plate: has the essence of psychic energy

"The description is about a biological thing"

This is actual stonewalling wtf, you are either not reading the description or twisting it in completely illogical ways, the description makes it clear that his armor simple contains the SAME THING THE MIND HAS THE ESSENCE OF and that said thing is used for the moves and you are somehow arguing that it is a "biological thing".

And you know what's funnier, the plates are also part of arceus in the same way armarogue's armor is his, so even if you argue it is somehow a purely biologival entry, it wouldn't matter because, in the same way armarogue uses the energy inside his armor for his moves, arceus can use the power inside his plates too.

And is hilarious that you are pushing for applying the changes before the other staff can replay, all while making nonsensical mental gymnastics and ignoring context.

Btw, for those repeating this, having 1 single extra staff in your side doesn't make this ready to be applied, it is only when the arguments are fully addressed by then all, especially the new ones, that it is fine.

What are you even arguing for?

We already concluded that Arceus can change his type with the plates and can use the general abilities of each type. We've even conceded that he can use all the moves of each type.

 

[Thelastmlg]

Translation: we have numbers, your arguments don't matter, we win because i said so

 

[Thelastmlg]

What are you even arguing for?

We already concluded that Arceus can change his type with the plates and can use the general abilities of each type. We've even conceded that he can use all the moves of each type.

That any explicitly usage of the types energy in the entries means he scales to their abilities, AKA gardevoir, regardless if it is a move, because it still uses the same source of power.

Also because you replied to my argument with that nonsense for some reason

 

[Sniper670]

Actually, it does. This CRT is absolutely over and any attempt to continue in this thread doesn't change the outcome. Seriously, this is pointless and we are not required to respond to any future points.

It's not over..... Especially when you're ignoring the argument

If we end rn, then this crt will need to be closed because those in agreement with it are in the minority here

 

[Sniper670]

What are you even arguing for?

We already concluded that Arceus can change his type with the plates and can use the general abilities of each type. We've even conceded that he can use all the moves of each type.

This statement of yours is unfounded anywhere and it's based on your headcannon

Plates DIRECTLY mentions he has the power of everything

It's your headcannon vs official confirmation

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

That any explicitly usage of the types energy in the entries means he scales to their abilities, AKA gardevoir, regardless if it is a move, because it still uses the same source of power.

Also because you replied to my argument with that nonsense for some reason

No. Arceus using the same type of energy as other pokemon, does not mean he scales to their abilities. Abilities are specific to the individual pokemon's circumstances.

By this logic, Kingdra should be able to do the same things that Palkia can do. Solgeo should be able to do the things that Jirachi can do. That Lunala should be able to do all the things that Hoopa can do. That Calyrex should be able to do all the things that Celebi can do. And every Psychic type should be able to do what Mew can do.

Pokemon have unique abilities. The plates are not a justification for Arceus getting those abilities.

This statement of yours is unfounded anywhere and it's based on your headcannon

Plates DIRECTLY mentions he has the power of everything

It's your headcannon vs official confirmation

Arceus with the water plate used water manipulation. How is that a headcannon?

 

[InfiniteDay]

It's not over..... Especially when you're ignoring the argument

If we end rn, then this crt will need to be closed because those in agreement with it are in the minority here

We aren't entitled to respond in a thread that will be applied very soon.

Those in agreement have higher voting power, it doesn't matter at this point.

 

[Sniper670]

No. Arceus using the same type of energy as other pokemon, does not mean he scales to their abilities. Abilities are specific to the individual pokemon's circumstances.

By this logic, Kingdra should be able to do the same things that Palkia can do. Solgeo should be able to do the things that Jirachi can do. That Lunala should be able to do all the things that Hoopa can do. That Calyrex should be able to do all the things that Celebi can do. And every Psychic type should be able to do what Mew can do.

I'll leave @Thelastmlg to take care of this.

Arceus with the water plate used water manipulation. How is that a headcannon?

Let's use this scenario here

Psychic energy manipulation = moves

Plate = Essence of Psychic Energy.

Literally confirmed few days ago Pokémon just manipulate energy that exists inside them to use their powers. The plates have the essence of it all. So he can manipulate it to replicate any move he wants

The only hindrance is a non issue. Knowledge as a concept is an aspect of him

 

[Sniper670]

We aren't entitled to respond in a thread that will be applied very soon.

Those in agreement have higher voting power, it doesn't matter at this point.

Aaah, so voting power trumps actually addressing the argument. I love your stance

You think 2 from staff votes and 9 votes from Regulars trumps 4 votes from staff( those two on neutral, one leans towards disagreeing, the other is not on your side, and he mentioned Arceus True form must absolutely get all the powers) and 15 votes from regulars

What made you think you're in the majority here btw..im lost

 

[InfiniteDay]

Aaah, so voting power trumps actually addressing the argument. I love your stance

You think 2 from staff votes and 9 votes from Regulars trumps 4 votes from staff( those two on neutral, one leans towards disagreeing, the other is not on your side, and he mentioned Arceus True form must absolutely get all the powers) and 15 votes from regulars

What made you think you're in the majority here btw..im lost

Voting power doesn't trump arguments, the fact that this thread is done with does.

Your math is wrong as well, DT, Ant, Mav and Mori all agree that Plates are not strong enough evidence, though Mori does agree that Arceus should have it for unrelated reasons. Incon's don't mean anything because they're not for or against this, so really no staff agree that plates = all powers.

We're in the majority because of voting power, not numbers.

 

[Sniper670]

Voting power doesn't trump arguments, the fact that this thread is done with does.

Your math is wrong as well, DT, Ant, Mav and Mori all agree that Plates are not strong enough evidence, though Mori does agree that Arceus should have it for unrelated reasons. Incon's don't mean anything because they're not for or against this, so really no staff agree that plates = all powers.

Lmao

Recent confirmation from the games literally confirms what the plates say.


Literally why Iamunanimousinthat is fumbling rn

DT argument has been refuted. Knowledge is something Arceus made from himself, so there's nothing others can use the energy for, that Arceus wouldn't be able to manipulate to do

In fact, I'd say we remove DT from the vote until he comes here to address the argument. His argument is redundant

We're in the majority because of voting power, not numbers.

You're not. Repeating it doesn't make it true

 

[InfiniteDay]

Lmao

Recent confirmation from the games literally confirms what the plates say.

You're not. Repeating it doesn't make it true

My brother in christ this is the most hypocritical shit i've ever seen

You're the same guy whose main argument is about posting the same quote about Plates at least a dozen times

Literally why Iamunanimousinthat is fumbling rn

Why are you using circular arguments and continuing to argue on this thread? Stop the cope.

DT argument has been refuted. Knowledge is something Arceus made from himself, so there's nothing others can use the energy for, that Arceus wouldn't be able to manipulate to do

In fact, I'd say we remove DT from the vote until he comes here to address the argument. His argument is redundant

This ain't how votes work, my brother your coping so hard your beginning to invalidate votes just because they don't care enough to respond to your circular arguments in a thread that is literally over.

 

[Sniper670]

My brother in christ this is the most hypocritical shit i've ever seen

Finally. This is the refutation we've a been waiting for..

Let's get the revision done already

Address the argument

You're the same guy whose main argument is about posting the same quote about Plates at least a dozen times

Address the argument

Why are you using circular arguments and continuing to argue on this thread? Stop the cope.

Address the argument.

This ain't how votes work, my brother your coping so hard your beginning to invalidate votes just because they don't care enough to respond to your circular arguments in a thread that is literally over.

Address the argument

 

[Sniper670]

You're doing anything but address the argument lol.

And you're in a rush to complete a revision you're in a minority. How does that work.

You're literally not helping your side by ignoring the argument

 

[InfiniteDay]

Finally. This is the refutation we've a been waiting for..

Let's get the revision done already

Address the argument

Address the argument

Address the argument.

Address the argument

The thread is over.

The argument was addressed already.

Your arguments are circular and have been for the last 5 pages.

Nobody is entitled to respond in a thread that is done.

Please shut up about this.

 

[Sniper670]

DT? Why should DT argument be taken into argument when his argument falls apart once you understand that the concept of knowledge is an aspect of himself

No, we're not going to ignore that to get the crt through.. And if he fails to make it here, then his vote won't count

Ignoring that will be like this

"Okay, you made an argument refuting DT, but DT never made it back, so we're just going to ignore you're refutation and get it through"

Does that make any sense to you my guy?