• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Alien X Multiverse Level

Status
Not open for further replies.
SupremeGilgamesh

SupremeGilgamesh

728
140
In the episode 51 of Omniverse,Ben 10.000 tries to stop a multiversal bomb with a hybrid alien

That doesn't work and all bens in the Multiverse are erased

On that day,we agreed that is not logical to Ben10k to use a weaker alien to stop a multiversal bomb and that doesn't scale to Alien X

Homever,i have a counterpoint to that in that the creators in Man of Action stated that Atomic-X is weaker than Alien-X because the Alien-X DNA is mixed with another alien thus making Alien-X stronger than Atomic-X

The reason as to why he used Atomic-X instead of Alien-X is because the plot needed him to lose or else we wouldn't have a story

Hope people can agree to it but if they don't,please be polite and i will study your counterpoints so we can discuss about it

(hope people won't jump the gun here)
 
wasn't it also stated by someone who worked on Ben 10 that Alien X could destroy and multiverse or omniverse or something like that?
 
PowerToScale said:
wasn't it also stated by someone who worked on Ben 10 that Alien X could destroy and multiverse or omniverse or something like that?
Click to expand...
he can it's stated by creators on their blod but he need to bond his powers with other celestialsapiens then together they can destroy a multiverse...not omniverse
 
Alenxlaienxalienxaloevra
I found the statement. It asks if Alien X can destroy the multiverse or even the Omniverse. To which the person replies he can but never specifying if its omniverse or multiverse
 
Tony di bugalu said:
I'm asking if there is proof in the show about this and not some random statements that contradicts the series.
Click to expand...
Yes celestialsapiens together changes the entire franchise/multiverse

here
 
So they together can change the multiverse, how does that means that every single one of them is equal?

In fact, this has been debunked quite a few times IIRC so unless this brings something new then...
 
Tony di bugalu said:
So they together can change the multiverse, how does that means that every single one of them is equal?
In fact, this has been debunked quite a few times IIRC so unless this brings something new then...
Click to expand...
every single one can not change the multiverse alone...

and in order to bond powers you have to convince them,they may or may not agree to bond powers which is a hard task to do.
 
Tony di bugalu said:
So they together can change the multiverse, how does that means that every single one of them is equal?
In fact, this has been debunked quite a few times IIRC so unless this brings something new then...
Click to expand...
No No

Together they can resist OMNIVERSAL destruction meaning they can survive TOGETHER the destruction of EVERY MULTIVERSE IN FICTION
 
HoRaOra9087 said:
Tony di bugalu said:
So they together can change the multiverse, how does that means that every single one of them is equal?
In fact, this has been debunked quite a few times IIRC so unless this brings something new then...
Click to expand...
No No
Together they can resist OMNIVERSAL destruction meaning they can survive TOGETHER the destruction of EVERY MULTIVERSE IN FICTION
Click to expand...
True it is stated ..cause if someone destroys the multiverse they will simply ,even ben as alien x would hide in a hidden demisnion like professor paradox did to protect him from timebomb.
 
Most of the Celestialsapien race are not responsive because they're debating within their mind-space. So it would be a select few that are responsible for altering the omniverse and literally the art style. I guess this is where the WoG statement comes in where it supports them being able to do this and scaling it to Alien X.
 
EmperorRorepme said:
Most of the Celestialsapien race are not responsive because they're debating within their mind-space. So it would be a select few that are responsible for altering the omniverse and literally the art style. I guess this is where the WoG statement comes in where it supports them being able to do this and scaling it to Alien X.
Click to expand...
starbread and few of them might've joined him like galactic gladitor to change the art styles not evey single one of them...true agreed.
 
For now im very much disagreeing with this.

When 2-A Alien X was debunked, this counter argument of "Atomic X is confirmed to be weaker" was already brought up many times in the very thread where we downgraded him and it was rejected. So I dont see what would make this time any different than before.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
For now im very much disagreeing with this.
When 2-A Alien X was debunked, this counter argument of "Atomic X is confirmed to be weaker" was already brought up many times in the very thread where we downgraded him and it was rejected. So I dont see what would make this time any different than before.
Click to expand...
https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/635286

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/642277

Threads for upgrade to 2-A (In order).

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/889629

Thread for downgrade.

All of that is well and good but it doesn't address the Omnitrix still being more powerful than the Chrono Navigator so that would make Ben's Omnitrix 2-A at best. If you want to argue that the main omniverse with the timelines branching off ad infinitum isn't 2-A then the Chrono Navigator would still be ridiculously high into 2-B which would scale to Ben's Omnitrix making the Omnitrix 2-B as well.

Another thing is that Alien X not being Ben's most powerful Alien is a Man of Action statement. Ok let's take this into account and agree with it. Then why don't we take into account the other author statement which says Alien X can recreate the mutliverse or omniverse (which is pretty much synonymous in Ben 10)? By this logic Alien X would still at least be 2-A if the omniverse isn't infinite than high into 2-B.

Again by this logic. if Man of Actions have said Alien X>Atomic-X then the debunk in the thread doesn't count either if we want to take author statements.
 
EmperorRorepme said:
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
For now im very much disagreeing with this.
When 2-A Alien X was debunked, this counter argument of "Atomic X is confirmed to be weaker" was already brought up many times in the very thread where we downgraded him and it was rejected. So I dont see what would make this time any different than before.
Click to expand...
https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/635286
https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/642277

Threads for upgrade to 2-A (In order).

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/889629

Thread for downgrade.

All of that is well and good but it doesn't address the Omnitrix still being more powerful than the Chrono Navigator so that would make Ben's Omnitrix 2-A at best. If you want to argue that the main omniverse with the timelines branching off ad infinitum isn't 2-A then the Chrono Navigator would still be ridiculously high into 2-B which would scale to Ben's Omnitrix making the Omnitrix 2-B as well.

Another thing is that Alien X not being Ben's most powerful Alien is a Man of Action statement. Ok let's take this into account and agree with it. Then why don't we take into account the other author statement which says Alien X can recreate the mutliverse or omniverse (which is pretty much synonymous in Ben 10)? By this logic Alien X would still at least be 2-A if the omniverse isn't infinite than high into 2-B.

Again by this logic. if Man of Actions have said Alien X>Atomic-X then the debunk in the thread doesn't count either if we want to take author statements.
Click to expand...
Atomic x is a fusion...it's weaker it helps as atomix can get tired after using his atomic powers so celestialsapien 1/2 dna charges it up ,very helpful nowhere near alien x though...
 
Multiple issues with this.

1.) The Omnitrix being more powerful than the Chrono Navigator (even if we assume this is specifically refering to power and AP) would be a hilarious outlier. The omnitrix by itself is nothing beyond the scope of Low 2-C at best. In the past, the Omnitrix was only going to destroy the universe (3-A or Low 2-C, context doesnt determine which one) via a self-destruct feature. Besides this, the Omnitrix has a Low 2-C feat of turning Ben into Feedback to contain a Big-Bang level attack (and this argubly doesnt even scale to the Omnitrix itself since it explicitly needed to turn Ben into Feedback via the Failsafe). The Omnitrix being 2-A or anything above Low 2-C is an absolute no.

2.) There is no author quote that says Alien X can recreate the multiverse, your talking about it taking Alien X "6 thoughts" to destroy it. And it still wouldnt be accepted since we have a very strict standard here on when to accept or reject author statements. This one for Alien X has been rejected numerous times before, so it is no acception to this rule.

3.) Even disregarding my 2nd point, this still wouldnt be a Multiversal feat. Alien X explicitly uses a single thought to destroy a single universe. That means that for every thought he makes, its Low 2-C in power. So how would he able to destroy an entire Multiverse thats 2-B or 2-A in size using 6 thoughts? It makes absolutely no sense.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Multiple issues with this.
1.) The Omnitrix being more powerful than the Chrono Navigator (even if we assume this is specifically refering to power and AP) would be a hilarious outlier. The omnitrix by itself is nothing beyond the scope of Low 2-C at best. In the past, the Omnitrix was only going to destroy the universe (3-A or Low 2-C, context doesnt determine which one) via a self-destruct feature. Besides this, the Omnitrix has a Low 2-C feat of turning Ben into Feedback to contain a Big-Bang level attack (and this argubly doesnt even scale to the Omnitrix itself since it explicitly needed to turn Ben into Feedback via the Failsafe). The Omnitrix being 2-A or anything above Low 2-C is an absolute no.

2.) There is no author quote that says Alien X can recreate the multiverse, your talking about it taking Alien X "6 thoughts" to destroy it. And it still wouldnt be accepted since we have a very strict standard here on when to accept or reject author statements. This one for Alien X has been rejected numerous times before, so it is no acception to this rule.

3.) Even disregarding my 2nd point, this still wouldnt be a Multiversal feat. Alien X explicitly uses a single thought to destroy a single universe. That means that for every thought he makes, its Low 2-C in power. So how would he able to destroy an entire Multiverse thats 2-B or 2-A in size using 6 thoughts? It makes absolutely no sense.
Click to expand...
6 thoughts is via bonding ability with other celestialsapiens.(just telling nothing else)

same they used to change artstyle of entire series..
 
1) We haven't seen the full scope of the Omnitrix's power so it wouldn't be an outlier at all. According to the debunks that the initial thread uses it has a statement from Man of Action where there are most powerful people than Alien X in the Omnitrix so Low 2-C assuming that's the only scope of Alien X's power which it isn't because his universe creation feat was with a thought only. Why would he need to recreate an multiverse if only a universe is destroyed? So no that isn't the limit to his power.

Also "more powerful" specifically refers to power it cannot be anything else and is not implied to be anything else. So the Omnitrix is more powerful.

2) Yeah I meant the destroy quote. That isn't the point. The point is double-standard with accepting quotes saying Alien-X isn't the most poweful Alien Ben has got and not accepting statements of Alien X>Atomic-X. Making the "debunks" in the thread mote.

3) It would be a multiversal feat. We don't know how the mechanics of Alien X's "thought abilities" work first of all so if the Author says it would only take six thoughts all we can do is extrapolate what that means if it isn't fully explained. We don't know if the thoughts are in a linear pattern with each equalling only one universe or non-linear.

So overall you can't apply a systematic power scale for something that we don't know the mechanics of.
 
The Omnitrix's power refers to either the actual device itself or the Alien's within. Most likely being the Aliens within due to the mechanics of the device which lines up with the more powerful Aliens than Alien X statement.

Also which episode was the Omnitrix going to destroy the universe?
 
>We haven't seen the full scope of the Omnitrix's power so it wouldn't be an outlier at all.

Yes, we have. Literally one of its only feats is pulling off universe destruction with, again, a self-destruction sequence. Not even an actual attack of any kind, but an overtime process where if its not stopped then the universe will be destroyed. That absolutely doesnt scale to its own power in any way, shape or form. Even including Feedbacks Low 2-C feat (which may or may not be able to scale to the Omnitrix itself again), Low 2-C is the absolute best feat the Omnitrix has ever shown throughout the entire franchise. So it being more powerful than a 2-A weapon will most definitely be an outlier and on huge proportions.

>According to the debunks that the initial thread uses it has a statement from Man of Action where there are most powerful people than Alien X in the Omnitrix so Low 2-C assuming that's the only scope of Alien X's power which it isn't because his universe creation feat was with a thought only.

This doesnt have anything to do with the Omnitrix's own level of power. The Omnitrix doesnt scale to the Aliens that are within it as they are simply DNA of aliens that allows Ben to choose from and transform into whenever he wants. The power of the aliens =/= the power of the omnitrix.

>Why would he need to recreate an multiverse if only a universe is destroyed? So no that isn't the limit to his power.

Again, Alien X can't recreate a Multiverse. He was stated to be able to destroy one in 6 thoughts. And I already pointed out why this wouldnt be Multiversal.

>Also "more powerful" specifically refers to power it cannot be anything else and is not implied to be anything else. So the Omnitrix is more powerful.

Or it can be referring to the Omnitrix's versatile capabilities of transforming into different aliens, which the Chrono Navigator cannot accomplish. Either way, it wouldnt matter because it would still be a massive outlier.

>The point is double-standard with accepting quotes saying Alien-X isn't the most poweful Alien Ben has got and not accepting statements of Alien X>Atomic-X.

The accepting or rejecting of author quotes is treated on a case by case basis, so just because one is accepted/rejected doesnt mean it applies to any other author statement. That being said, Im pretty sure the reason we accepted the statement of Alien X not being the most powerful alien in the omnitrix is because it came from Dwayne, a deceased creator of the franchise previously who actually gave serious answers about the franchise to fans and was not someone who simply appeased to fan questions just to get them to shut up and stop bothering him (hence why we are very strict with author statements here). That, and the notion of Atomic X being weaker than Alien X despite in-canon source material has never confirmed something as such was accepted as being nonsense.

>It would be a multiversal feat. We don't know how the mechanics of Alien X's "thought abilities" work first of all

We do. He destroys only a single universal space-time continuum with a thought as it is portrayed right to us, therefore feats show that is his limit when using thoughts as an attack. You cant speculate that he can do more with one thought than what was shown flat out to us.

Not to mention, saying Alien X needs multiple thoughts to destroy something is saying that he cant do so in a single action or attack, making it an overtime feat as opposed to saying he could destroy the entire multiverse in one instance.
 
1) The Omnitrix Self Destruction sequence was in the original series with a less evolved Omnitrix. Therefore it doesn't account for the power of the more evolved Omnitrix in the later series. Again it can refer to the actual device or the Aliens. Most likely the Alien because of how the Omnitrix works. And we haven't seen the full capabilities of the Aliens or the more evolved Omnitrix so no it wouldn't be an outlier.

2) "More powerful" refers to power. Assuming that it's anyother aspect would just be headcanon because it isn't implied in the slightest. The definition of powerful is power and strength. Therefore assuming it's otherwise without futher implication has no basis.

3) I understand that but Man of Action are all equally credible. So you'd have to prove they weren't being sincere in each statement and I can't see evidence of that in any of the threads. Atomic-X and the purpose of most author statements is to clarify what in canon sources do not. So saying it isn't implied so the statement is wrong is defeating the purpose of WoG.

4) No we don't. We know one thought can create a universe but we don't know if that's the limit of one thought. We don't know about destruction. We don't know how thoughts interact. Also we know that the thought was to recreate the universe therefore that's what he did he wasn't destroying or creating anymore than that. So we don't know the full capabilities of Alien X's powers.
 
Lightbuster30 said:
Peter "Quicksilver" Maximoff said:
Atomic-X weaker yup, more versatile definitely.
Click to expand...
Literally how could ben get more versatile by combining a reality warper with someone who manipulates nuclear energy?
Click to expand...
not versatile typical powerhouse with endless nuclear energy generation without getting tired with time travelling abilities....
 
>The Omnitrix Self Destruction sequence was in the original series with a less evolved Omnitrix. Therefore it doesn't account for the power of the more evolved Omnitrix in the later series.

This is implying that the Omnitrix itself grows in power whenever its being upgraded (its upgrades mostly being to hold more DNA samples of Aliens to widen Bens arsenal of aliens to choose from...), which is absolutely never proven in the series.

>Again it can refer to the actual device or the Aliens. Most likely the Alien because of how the Omnitrix works. And we haven't seen the full capabilities of the Aliens or the more evolved Omnitrix so no it wouldn't be an outlier.

Even with disregarding my earlier point, "not seeing the full capabilities of the aliens" doesnt negate this from being an outlier. Your suggesting that these aliens (or just Alien X) are capable of jumping 3 tiers of power (3 levels of infinity to be more specific) all on the basis of "they havent shown a limit". That is not how this works.

>I understand that but Man of Action are all equally credible. So you'd have to prove they weren't being sincere in each statement and I can't see evidence of that in any of the threads.

The OP of the thread that downgraded Alien X claimed that the source and/or links of Dwayne's comments used to be spread very much around in the Ben 10 community, even being linked on the Ben 10 wikia, before it was taken down. That pushes its legitimacy to have priority or else it would have never been seen as such in the 1st place.

>Atomic-X and the purpose of most author statements is to clarify what in canon sources do not. So saying it isn't implied so the statement is wrong is defeating the purpose of WoG.

Then you'll have to make a seperate thread about author statements and their legitimacy in general because thats exactly how we treat them here. Again, we are very strict on what to accept from an author.

>No we don't. We know one thought can create a universe but we don't know if that's the limit of one thought.

We do. We are shown flat out that 1 universe is all a single thought of Alien X's is able to muster up, therefore we go with that. Your essentially trying to argue that we go and make assumptions instead of taking what is simply portrayed to us already.

At the end of the day, even disregarding what I said, this is pure speculation.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

OMNIVERSAL-KING
A FEW BEN 10 UPGRADES
2
Replies
68
Views
2K
Hellformer
Hellformer
NXCHT.66
  • Locked
Alien X and Celestialsapiens Additions
2 3
Replies
101
Views
5K
NXCHT.66
NXCHT.66
DemonicDude
  • Locked
Ben 10 Reboot Alien X Reality Warping Removal ?
Replies
37
Views
2K
DemonicDude
DemonicDude
NXCHT.66
  • Locked
Alien X Addition and Upgrade
2 3 4
Replies
127
Views
8K
Firestorm808
Firestorm808
Celestial_Scaler25
Alien X and the Contumelia have immeasurable lifting strength!
Replies
31
Views
1K
NXCHT.66
NXCHT.66
Back
Top