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Ben 10: Alien X tiering

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Eroij

Eroij

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Got it from this thread:

http://www.narutoforums.com/threads/ben-10-feats-discussion.1095210/

Alien X and the other Celestialsapiens are not merely FTL and universal level, but have infinite speed and are tier 2-A multiversal. The following feats and statements will prove this:

Destructive Capacity:

The universe that the Anihilaarg destroyed: https://youtu.be/zUQSg-23vyI?t=1m35s and then recreated in the last episode of ben 10 omniverse "A new dawn", has at least 100 dimensions, since Diagon ruled 99 dimensions, not including the Null Void. At 15:30 The Null Void is stated to be infinitely big in the Ben 10 Season 2 episode 13 "Back with a Vengance"

-In the Ben 10 Omniverse episode season 6 episode 2 "And then there were none" Vilgax uses the Chronosapian Time Bomb to destroy infinite timelines/ multiverses at 17:30. Each timeline has 2 universes and dozens of dimensions, including the infinitely sized Null Void.

Professor Paradox confirms that all timelines except 1 were destroyed at 21:12 in the same episode.

- In the Ben 10 Omniverse Episode " Ben Again" Season 2 Episode 18 Paradox states if anyone else but him uses the Chrono Navigator,' it would destroy all of reality, at 9:00 and at 18:38. Only he knows how to use it without doing that.

- 9:20 Paradox cannot lie, he is a time traveler who has been to dozens of universes, timelines and dimensions, and he is the one who created the weapon. He also witnessed the destruction of the multiverse, so he should know what he's talking about.

- In the Ben 10 Alien force episode "Vengeance of Vilgax and Salman part 1 " season 3 episode 1
at 20:44 Azmuth says the Omnitrix is the most powerful weapon in the universe. 'Meaning the omnitrix> time bomb and Chrono-Navigator. Alien X is the most powerful alien in the Omnitrix - In the episode: "Forge of Creation":http://***********.se/Cartoon/Ben-1...n-01-Episode-16-The-Forge-of-Creation?id=1816 - Azmuth at 00:30 says the celestialsapien' have the greatest power in the universe, again confirming they are > the time bomb and chrono navigator.'

- At 5:03, Paradox also states it's the source of the universe's greatest power, further proving celestialsapiens DC is above everything else.


Sidenote:Alien X also created the chronosapien Time Bomb, when it created the universe, so it should be able to use this however it wants.


- One of the series creator confirms Alien X is tier 2-a multiversal https://i35.servimg.com/u/f35/19/00/38/35/45615610.png


- In Alien X's character profile, it is stated Alien X can destroy entire universes, universes in plural which is why Ben won't use it unless he has to. https://i86.servimg.com/u/f86/19/00/38/35/48558110.jpg

Suffice to say, Alien X is not universal in DC, but tier 2-a Multiversal in durability and DC since neither Ben nor the Gladiator could oneshot each other.

Speed:
- In the last episode of Ben 10 Ominverse, "A new Dawn", Alien X tanks the Anihilaarg then stops it from expanding, after it had already started expanding. A a calc of it exists here: http://www.narutoforums.com/xfa-blo...se-speed-feat-creation-of-the-universe.36389/ This puts the Celestialsapien and the omnitrix auto-transformation at the very minimum 366 Quadrillion X FTL. Ben's reaction speed is irrelevant to make him transformation into Alien X.

Infinite speed- it is stated at 6:33 in Ben 10 Alien Force season 1 episode 16 The Forge of creation , that the FOC is a nebula, without time.

You can't go there without having the map of infinity, or if you aren't Paradox/ a celestialsapien.
Numerous characters can easily teleport or travel to other dimensions and universes, yet none of them can go to the Forge of creation. Eon wanted to rule the cosmos and he can easily travel to another universe, dimension, timeline etc yet is unable to go to the Forge of creation.

Paradox can go there due to having the chrono navigator, but the celestialsapien don't yet can still go there. The celestialsapien can move in the Forge of creation, which is outside of time itself, meaning they should be infinitely fast. This is the same as to how GER is infinitely fast for moving in King Crimson's erased time. So to summarize, Celestialsapiens have infinite speed and are tier 2-a .

Other: Proof of there being infinite multiverses

Paradox mentioning in the Ben 10 Ultimate episode season 02, episode 10 "Ben 10000 returns" there are infinite timelines

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3ilitb

At 9:30 he says : "Ad infinitum", which means "continue forever, without limit"


Paradox explains in the Ben 10 omniverse Season 6 EPISODE 1 "And then there were none" the cosmos at 9:00

- http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3z4930

Paradox uses the quantum mechanics theory and string theory to explain to Ben what the cosmos is. According to both theories, there are infinite multiverses. the creators of the series also believe in both theories.

This and the fact that Eon and Paradox, who both can easily timeline travel in seconds, failed to find the No Watch Timeline until after dozens of years, disprove the "hundreds of timelines" thing. Furthermore:

http://imgur.com/a/VtqPy

Each dot represents Earth, there is 1 Earth for each timeline, and clearly, there are more than hundreds of dots. So yeah, infinite timelines seem more likely than hundreds. Nothing backs up there being only hundreds of timelines.


Regarding Atomic X compared to Alien X:

It's for some reason a common misconception that Atomic X is at least as strong as Alien X. This is simply not true and a very baseless assumption, based on nothing other than assuming that combining alien DNA shouldn't make the hybrid alien weaker than the original. This is despite the fact that many hybrid aliens are indeed weaker than the original.


Nevertheless, there exists evidence to prove that Alien X is >>> Atomic X:

1ST

In the Ben 10 Omniverse season 8 episode 9 "End of an Era" http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3zwcfb

At 15:39: Ben easily gets knocked out of his Atomic X form by Maltruent,.

Notice how at 15:15 how little effect his punch had against Maltruent, also keep in mind how Atomic X is unable to defeat Maltruent despite it being 3 vs 1.

2nd: http://*******************.eu/watch/ben-10-omniverse-s8-ep10-a-new-dawn/

Maltruent gets destroyed easily, by the Anihilaarg. Alien X tanks the Anihilaarg with NO damage at all.

Alien X>>>> The Anihilaarg>>> Maltruent>>>> Atomic X. Ben's strongest alien is stated by the author and Paradox who knows of future Ben and his aliens, and in the alien character profile to be Alien X.

"Why does Ben use Atomic X if Alien x is stronger?" Pricelessly because Atomic X is weaker, is why he uses it and other aliens and not Alien X.

http://www.tomfreelance.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/P06-7_BEN10.jpg

Ben doesn't wanna use Alien X because it is too strong, as shown above, why would he then combine Alien x with another alien to make a stronger/ just as strong alien? He doesn't wanna use Alien X because the risk of destroying the universe is too great, yet he uses an alien equally as powerful? That makes no sense and is never stated or backed up by anything in the series. Many of Ben's hybrid aliens, including Atomic X are weaker than the original aliens. Other hybrid aliens weaker than the original are Diamond Matter, Heat Jaws, Stink Arms


"'Well' Ben still needs to convince Bellicus and Serena to do something as Alien X right?" No

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3zd77w_ben-10-omniverse-s06e09-weapon-xi-part-1_fu

19:10 Ben is stated and shown to have FULL control of Alien X, but doesn't use it because of plot. Meaning he doesn't have to argue with Serena and Bellicus at all. Again keep in mind the omnitrix is able to transform him into Alien X without him even thinking, at 366 Quadrillion Times the speed of light.
 
Why is Golden Experience Requiem still listed as having infinite speed then for that exact reason? Also it doesn't really change much
 
Wait that says he can create a universe with a thought but needs six to destroy the multiverse or omniverse which contains infinite timelines... What?
 
It pretty much means that either Serena or Bellicus won't destroy the multiverse/ omniverse, without Ben asking one of them/ them both, several times. Normally Serena and Bellicus don't do anything unless Ben suggests the same thing in different ways, asking them several times.


Also it's not relevant to Ben anymore, as he doesn't need to talk to Alien X's personalities anymore to make alien x do anything, so the 6 thoughts part is meaningless.
 
To quote from the Speed page:

"Moving within a timeless void is not a sufficient justification for receiving the infinite speed rating. This is a rather common plot convenience within fiction, such as after a universe has been destroyed, or when travelling outside of regular space-time, and is generally strongly contradicted by all regular speed feats. In order to qualify, a character must be a natural part of that type of environment."

Other points:

We do not use the terms Megaverse or Omniverse. Infinite timelines is considered as 2-A.

Western media recurrently incorrectly uses the word "Dimension" as a synonym for a type of universe.

Ranking Alien X as 2-A based on an offhanded twitter comment, combined with lots of speculation, seems very unreliable.
 
1) It's not a twitter comment, it's from Ask

2) What's so illogical about this? Him being a multiverse/ megaverse buster? If that's the case yes it is against logic to destroy a multiverse, but this is also irrelevant because a lot of stuff that happens in fictions is against logic. Perhaps you're thinking of the omnipotent comment made by the same person, which is not what this is about
 
Regarding the speed thing, well the Forge of Creation is a natural environment to all celestialsapiens, as they are all born there and able to move there freely. Only they and Paradox can go there and move there. This is stated multiple times in the series. Celestialsapien's moving outside of time is not some sort of plot convenience, so not seeing why Alien X wouldn't have infinite speed going by this. Regarding the DC:

First of all It's not a twitter comment, I'm starting to think none of you know what twitter is?? Have none of you heard of Ask.fm ?

Secondly, by your logic Whis, Vados, Daishinkai, Vegeta, Hit etc are not universal in DC and durability? How would you justify it for them? Because they are stronger than Super saiyan God Goku who is universal? Isn't that also just speculation, going by this logic? How is that different from what I'm doing with Alien X?

It's the same thing here, Alien X has been stated MULTIPLE times by the most credible characters in the series, to be more powerful than everything else in the series, which includes 2 multiversal/megaversal weapons. It's not speculation when even the author has said so multiple times. Also what was so offhanded about the author's comment? I'm not trying to be rude, but did you read my entire post and watch the videos, explaining the multiversal thing?

Seriously how is this speculation? The Chronosapien Timebomb, is stated and SHOWN to be multiversal. We see it on screen destroy every timeline except 1, meaning infinite multiverses, there is no speculation here.

Alien X is stated multiple times by characters who have observed the destruction of the multiverse to be more powerful than the CSTB. Paradox who has seen the destruction of infinite multiverses said that his Chrono Navigator is able to destroy all of existence, which means it's> The CSTB. Paradox also says Alien X and the omnitrix are the most powerful in the universe. They are more powerful than something that can destroy the entire omniverse

Saying it is speculation is the same as saying only Goku, Beerus and Zeno are universal or above, since powerscaling is = speculating apparently

Also even if you don't believe Alien X is multiversal by itself, it can easily create and use the chronosapian time bomb, as it created it along with everything else in the universe. So yes there is no way around the fact that Alien X is megaversal, with or without powerscaling. By Occam's Razor, he is megaversal or whatever you call it.

Also what would do you call someone who can destroy infinite multiverses if it's not megaversal?
 
It makes no sense that it take a finite number of thoughts to destroy something infinite.
 
Exactly and besides why should we take a twitter comment from people who have no idea or understanding about dimensional tier (at least by our standards) seriously?

This sounds like massive hyperbole even if coming by the author.
 
How is Alien X able to destroy infinite multiverses? From what I remember of that offhanded comment, it was claimed as being able to destroy the multiverse in 6 thoughts. We rate destroying infinite timelines/universes as 2-A.

That said, just because Alien X is considered as the most powerful character in the series, does not automatically mean that it is more powerful than all weapons.

Regardless, we would need more community input regarding this, and given how disorganised your first post is, this may be rather unlikely.
 
So no character in fiction can destroy infinite universes is what you're saying? TOAA needs infinite "attacks" and thoughts to destroy infinite universes? Got it.

Also we see the Chronosapien Timebomb destroy all timelines after Vilgax presses a single button, in other words , finite thoughts destroyed something infinite.
 
What part of it is not from twitter are you not understanding?

What do you mean? What's so hard to understand, 2 other devices can destroy the omniverse, why is it so hard to believe something more powerful can do the same? Do you know what the word hyperbole means? It's not hyperbole when we have actually seen the destruction of the omniverse.

So basically what you're saying is Super Saiyan Blue Goku cannot destroy the universe, just because Super Saiyan God Goku can, even though he is stronger. Saying otherwise is hyperbole.
 
Read the comment again, 6 thoughts to destroy the OMNIVERSE, which contains infinite multiverses.

Read the part about the destructive capacity again, it's not because of that. All right I will summarize it.

The chronosapien Time Bomb is able to destroy the omniverse. This is shown and then confirmed. The chrono navigator is stated to be able to destroy the omniverse, from the same guy who saw the destruction of the omniverse.

Alien X / Celestialsapiens are stated multiple times to have more power than anything else in the universe. The Omnitrix, only due to Alien X, is stated to be the most powerful weapo in the universe, multiple times. This is coming from not some random guy, but from Azmuth who is fully aware of how powerful the Chronosapien Time Bomb is and the Chrono Navigator.

I'm seriously not understanding how none of you are able to get my reasoning. powerscaling not allowed in this forum? And again, Alien X created and can use the Chronosapien Time Bomb easily.

Isn't every God tier in Dragon Ball super universal due to the exact same power scaling, that isn't considered "hyperbole" or anything? Since none of you answer this, i'm starting to assume you have double standards.


How else should I organize this?
 
This logic still makes no sense you cannot destroy something infinite with a finite number of attacks. The creator says he needs six throughts to destroy the omniverse which has infinite Multiverses and I watched "And then their where none" and no where in that episode did I here the word infinite timelines they just kept saying the bomb would destroy all timelines but they never say how many their are plus the bomb didn't even destroy the timeline Vilgax was in. How can a bomb that destroy infinite timelines destroy all but one? That means that bomb somehow turned infinite finite and Vilgax says the bomb will destroy all timelines in the Multiverse not Multiverses
 
Unless the omnitrix is explicitly compared to the time bomb, which Azmuth was likely not aware of when creating it, we cannot scale between the two based on speculation.

Omniverse is recurrently used as a synonym for multiverse, and othervise also varies greatly in its intended meaning, as it is a made-up term.

Also, do not spam this page by repeatedly quoting long posts.
 
Also, a likely non-serious offhanded reply is not a good reason for upgrading a character to such an extreme degree, unless it is backed up by information within the series itself.
 
Mind you, I really liked the Dwayne McDuffie-written period of Ben 10, but I cannot give it special treatment.
 
Contemelia (5th dimensional beings) are the strongest in Ben 10 omniverse. Also Atomix was erased by the chronosapien time bomb. The same could happen to Alien X
 
I talked about ho Atomc X(an alien fused with Alien X) got erased by that bomb on an older thread and the response I got was Atomic X is weaker then Alien X since he is fused with another alien. Why would Ben 10,000 fuse Alien X with another alien that would make it weaker that doesn't make any sense.
 
@Griffin That can be explained by the fact that Alien X likely has the greatest weakness compared to any other universe buster's. He has to convince beings that have been arguing for millennia to even walk, so fusing likely reduced that weakness but also the strengths.

I don't agree with such a huge upgrade, especially since the majority is so vague, there's no reason for Azmuth to even know about the other weapons. At absolute best he can be rated multiversal, no higher, though I don't think he can go any higher than multi-universal anyway.
 
The contemelia are never stated to be the strongest being. Not only that it is entirely irrelevant to my point, since the contemelia are not part of the universe. They come from outside the regular universe, so them being stronger than alien x proves nothing, but this is never stated or implied.

Atomic X was weaker than Maltruent, Maltruent easily got killed by the anihilaarg at the last episode, which alien X tanked. Atomic X is nowhere near the strength of Alien X.


Paradox, who has seen the destruction of the multiverse, says alien X is more powerful than everything else in the universe : "The forge of creation is the source of the universe's greatest power", meanwhile he has a megaversal weapon, and he knows of the chronosapien timbomb.


Regarding Azmuth, you know what? Maybe Azmuth didn't know about the time bomb, BUT he did indeed know about the chrono navigator, which is more powerful than the timebomb, stated by someone who saw the destruction of every timeline. Azmuth knows fully well of Paradox's power, yet Azmuth still said the omnitrix>>> The Chrono Navigator and all other weapons.

The very fact that alien x is repeatedly stated to be >>> everything else in the universe, pretty much backs up the author statement.


Also what is so vague about "having the greatest power in the universe", "the most poweful weapon in the universe" and" destroying the omniverse with 6 thoughts"?. Now I'm starting to think you don't know what the word vague means neither, like with twitter/ ask.fm
 
LordGriffin1000 you need to rewatch the episode then, at the end of the episode Paradox confirms that there is only 1 left. Vilgax also says he was going to destroy all timelines, except 1. A timeline= 1 multiverse.

"This logic still makes no sense you cannot destroy something infinite with a finite number of attacks."

All right, the Ultimate Nullifer, The living Tribunal, TOAA cannot destroy infinite multiverses with 1 attack? Cool. They cannot do it with 6 attacks neither right, since it is a finite number? Cool. Vilgax did it, rewatch the entire episode, and watch the following episode where Ben restores all timelines. There is only 1 timeline in 1 multiverse, a timeline is a multiverse.

And before you even go there, if you can destroy infinite universes with 1 attack, then you can be sure you also can do it with 6. 1 is a finite number, so is 6.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3ilitb

9:30 "Ad infinitum", which means "continue forever, without limit"
 
All right, the Ultimate Nullifer, The living Tribunal, TOAA cannot destroy infinite multiverses with 1 attack? Cool. They cannot do it with 6 attacks neither right, since it is a finite number? Cool. Vilgax did it, rewatch the entire episode, and watch the following episode where Ben restores all timelines. There is only 1 timeline in 1 multiverse, a timeline is a multiverse.

He is not saying that it requires infinite attacks, but rather requires a single one. If you have an attack that has infinite power, an attack is enough to destroy the infinite in totality.

Griffin used the word "finite", but what he meant was "higher than one". Nevertheless, it is something that is easily interpretable.
 
So the Anihilaarg in the last episode created the entire omniverse (as it was stated the time didn't started so Maltruent couldn't do his time attacks) or only the Ben primes timeline?
 
@Myx

I am not sure if I follow. Also as Ant has stated above, we need to stop using "omniverse" as it is a very inconsistent and misused term.
 
If it takes 6 attacks to destroy infinite timeliens, how do you know he doesn't destroy infinite with each? Infinite is not a number. Say if you have a human hand, that is infinitely big, and you only destroyed 1 finger with 100% of your power, which is also infinitely big. Going by your logic, that is not possible without also destroying the rest of the hand. If you need 1 attack to destroy a finger, you can't need more than 1 to destroy the other 4 fingers is basically what you're saying.

We know the chronosapien time bomb destroyed infinite timelines, yet 1 timeline was left, meaning it would take at least 2 detonations of the bomb to destroy the entire omniverse. 2 attacks, is more than 1. This is confirmed in the series, also 6 thoughts being needed to destroy the omniverse could also mean that Ben has to ask them several times in order for them to do it.

As they are very persistent, this actually does make sense.

There is no such rule as it requires 1 single attack to destroy infinite stuff, otherwise you're saying destroying a single universe of infinite size is the same as destroying infinite multiverses, contaning infinite universes of infinite size. That is not true.
 
MisterMxyzptlk1 said:
So the Anihilaarg in the last episode created the entire omniverse (as it was stated the time didn't started so Maltruent couldn't do his time attacks) or only the Ben primes timeline?
Click to expand...
You are right about this actually.

Alien X effortlessly tanked the Anihilaarg, Gladiator hurt Alien X, making them > The Anihilaarg. The Anihilaarg offensive is the same as its recreation. So yeah this is even more proof, of Alien X being omniversal.


Furthermore, When the Anihilaarg destroyed the universe, Ben said "The universe is everything I know" and " it is everything there is", despite that Ben had been to several other multiverses, Serana and Bellicus coming from another universe, there being dozens of other dimensions/ universes etc.


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3t4t5u at 19:27


Notice how Bellicus and Serena don't correct Ben when he says that the "universe is everything there is", they only correct him on the tense "is" to "was". The Anihilaargh destroyed everything there is I.E the Omniverse and Alien X tanked it.


@Assaltwaffle what term should we use then?
 
Antvasima said:
From what I remember of watching the show, Ben never visited different multiverses, just different universes.
Click to expand...
Remember the first episode where Ben 10000 appeared, in the original Ben 10 series? Well, that is not technically future Ben, but Ben from another universe/ timeline. This is stated in the episode "Ben 10000 returns", the adult Ben with atomic X and the "original" Ben 10000 are from 2 different multiverses.


The first episode Paradox appears in Ben 10 Alien Force, he takes them to an alternative timeline, where they didn't save the earth.

The episode " And then there were none" also shows many Bens, from different timelines.

We know there are at least 2 universes in 1 timeline, but we don't know anything about the 2nd universe other than as said by Paradox :" the physics are terrible there". Only 1 universe in each timeline/ multiverse has "normal" physics.


Regardless of all this, Serena and Bellicus, who, like Paradox, know of the existence of all the other multiverses, still didn't correct Ben when he said " the universe is everything there is", yet only corrected him on the tense..
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
You are being extremely obnoxious and biased, Eroij.
Click to expand...
Instead of throwing Ad Hominems, how about actually debunking/ discussing my claims? How am I biased?
 
The Everlasting said:
I should mention that Atomic-X (A half-Celestialsapien) got utterly obliterated by the Chronosapien Time Bomb. Alien X being 2-A is impossible.
Click to expand...
Atomic X also got stomped by Maltruent casually, the same Maltruent who died from the Anihilaarg. Alien X tanked the anihilaarg. Combining alien DNA does not always make it stronger than both the originals. This is the case for almost every alien hybrid.

@Antvasima @Assaltwaffle okay, found the correct term to use, thx for the info.
 
You know, something about that character card doesn't look right. Why would it explicitaly state that? Hop is going to look at the other cards for consistency. Not saying it's fake, but that doesn't look normal, becuase Hop swears he's seen it look different before.

Other than that, Ant has a strong point. Other universe/timelines are what's explored, not what seems like a universe.

Also your behavior was becoming very condescending, please calm down when you write.

Hop agrees with Everlasting's point, while Eroji makes that claim that it seems feasible for the tier bump based on his scaling, it doesn't work like you think it does. There's no logical way we should or can assume all of that could become 2-A. Now maybe Hop doesn't understand this, but in watching the show, this entire "multi-multiverse/omniverse" thing is just a creative way of writing in new timelines into the show, not making a massively grand scale of timelines/dimensions/universes for the sake of making the characters overpowered. Most are below Tier 3, and only a few are Tier 3-A or above. Logically a writer would not make, even in the show's finale, such a power character that's Tier 2-A.
 
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