Ainz Ooal Gown vs Gilgamesh (Fate)

[Monarch_Laciel]

How is it cast? Is there an example of it being used?

 

[Jucaslucas]

No attacks would work while time was stopped. Even if he used attack magic to barrage Gazef, it would cause him no harm. Because of that, Ainz cast a spell while keeping track of the time. "ÒÇîDelay Magic: True DeathÒÇì." This was a ninth-tier spell. Because 'Grasp Heart' was a more convenient spell, he did not use this one often. If no spell could affect an enemy while time-stopped, then all one needed to do was delay the activation of the spell until the moment the 'Time Stop' ended. Although it was a simple combination attack in theory, the trick was getting the timing right, which was extremely difficult. As such, only about 5% of all magic-users could pull it off. After much training and practice, Ainz was in that 5% as well. "...Farewell, Gazef Stronoff. I never hated you." The spell ended, and time returned to the world. Right after that, the other spell activated before anything else. —Gazef slowly fell." He only used it with time stop, but he should be able to use it normally with no problem. "Eh?" "Wha-what?" Climb and Brain had no idea of what had just happened.

 

[Jucaslucas]

I couldn't make the paragraphs work even if my life depended on it, so, bear with it.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Hmm. "Grasp heart is more convienient". That makes me think it has less a chance of working (especially considering its a spell that negates resurrection items in a world that full of them). So without TGoALiD we're back to "Gil's luck says no" and with it we're back to "he casts it and if Gil doesn't kill him in 12 seconds he dies". But of course... Sha Nagba Imuru. Gil knows that spell combo will kill him in 12 seconds, and is going to spam every magic negating, healing negating weapon he has from every possible direction around Ainz and kill him before those 12 seconds are up.

Then you consider what BlackDaryl said - TGoALiD isn't his go to spell - and thats pretty much GG for gil, cuz without it Ainz really has no way to kill Gil due to his luck stopping insta-death, and his armour stopping everything else.

And if we go for a bit of a stretch into the hypothetical, Gil's armoury has the prototype of every noble phantasm in existence (fact). Noble phantasms have every possible powers (probably - this is the stretch) - and there is always a noble Phantom to counter it (Gil states this). So there is probably insta death NPs and counters to them

 

[Jucaslucas]

That's a stretch. There are items to counter everything in Ainz's game, he is completely paranoid and has a crap ton of items. I could say that he has a counter to Gil's stuff as well.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Yes, but there is no prep time and Ainz doesn't just carry around every item he owns, most are in Nazarick's treasury, whereas Gil's has instant acess to everything he owns

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Anyway, I know I went there first, but it's probably best to stay away from hypotheticals or else we're going to end up with NLF

 

[Burneum]

Yeah, I know, I'm just saying.
I don't know. It should be. He should have Brahmastra Kundala and Pashupata, among others. He also has Noble Phantasms that negate durability and Noble Phantasms that negate magic.

Brahmastra Kundala and Pashupata cannot be used by Gilgamesh. They were created by gods and have no prototype.

 

[Xmark12]

Uuhhh... just wondering right now... What's the vote count..?

I kind of... lost count.

A long, long time ago.

 

[HimikoWerckmeister]

My vote goes for Gilgamesh for the reasons above.

 

[EnderShadowr215]

@Monarch They still count as a vote unless it was debunked entirely.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Since ScarletFirefly's rather succinct vote count there have been 3 new votes for Gil and 1 new vote for Ainz by my count, so that brings it to:

Ainz (5 valid votes, 2 invalid votes, 1 unclear but probably in favor): Elbert Doomray, Gemmysaur, A Hero Long Forgotten (questionable since OP stated Gil is serious), MakinaYuki (same case, Gil is serious and won't underestimate), OmniEverything, CoreOfImbalance, Promstein (not really clear, but siding with Ainz I think), Discofugyurself

Gilgamesh (8 votes) : ScarletFirefly, JBennet, Tivanenk, ShinyMagicalGirl (changed the vote to Gil), SageGodSlayer, Monarch Laciel, HimikoWerckmeister, LokiMasterrace

Also, BlackDaryl seems to be favouring Gil, so that might bring it up to 9 votes for gil, while jucaslucus and NotEvenHuman seem to be favouring Ainz, so that might bring it up to [5 valid, 2 invalid, 3 favouring], but none of them have outright stated who they are voting for.

Revoked Votes: NotEvenHuman, Zero Omega EX

If anyone sees anything wrong feel free to correct me

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

bump because i think this can be added

 

[О_Ху_Елкин]

Considering that major point in this battle was "have Ainz WCI with him or not" I think it would be neccessary to add - he actually HAVE ONE, that he always bring with him.

The highest-ranked Dragons were some of the strongest opponents in YGGDRASIL. It was very dangerous to move separately from the Guardians while they did not know the enemy's strength. However, Ainz possessed a World-Class Item. It possessed many powers, and one of them was very effective against Dragons. Therefore, even in the worst-case scenario, he ought to be able to escape it.

Volume 11, Chapter 5

So, please, think about it twice before stating, that god-like space-reality-time manipulator will be "Ea from existence" by some annoying bastard, who cannot even fight properly, not only "throw everything in your opponent, thinking about his own brilliance".

*random visitor*

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

@ OXy It wasn't that important to the debate actually. Ainz has a Wordl Class item sure, but we don't know what it is or what it does so it is irrelevant to the debate. And Gil has more than enough hax to match Ainz's and null Ainz's healing and resurrection. His ability to spam endless hax weaponry is more than enough to take down Ainz, and Ea is just the icing on the cake for when he rips apart the space-time of Ainz and reduces him to his "origin" - i.e. not existing

 

[О_Ху_Елкин]

@ OXy It wasn't that important to the debate actually. Ainz has a Wordl Class item sure, but we don't know what it is or what it does so it is irrelevant to the debate. And Gil has more than enough hax to match Ainz's and null Ainz's healing and resurrection. His ability to spam endless hax weaponry is more than enough to take down Ainz, and Ea is just the icing on the cake for when he rips apart the space-time of Ainz and reduces him to his "origin" - i.e. not existing

Blondy could not even take down Shirou. And about his hax - it just opening the Gates and throwing everything he can - and since I dooubt just throwing random (magical and legendary, but just throwing random) weapon can hurm Ainz (or kill him in 12 seconds since it is the time needed to kill Gil) - nuh, dont think he have even a 3% of killing Ainz.

And since we know Ainz have ressurection ring, bringing him to life after death immideately - well, gg, sasuga Ainz-sama!

WCI just another point.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Gil not taking down Shirou was pure PIS and arrogance. In this fight, Gil knows Ainz has ways to kill him. He isn't taking chances. Fight begins -> Gil unrestricts SNI and sees the precise steps and weapons needed to defeat Aiz -> Gil restricts Ainz with Enkidu, stopping him from moving or using spells, then (the weapons don't need to be random, he can choose what he wants easily too) fires all his regen regating, resurrection negating, holy/fire, spacial cutting weaponry from every angle before finishing it up with a charged Ea to Ainz's bony face, and the whole thing is over in about 5 seconds, let alone 12. And when/if Ainz resurrects, Gil does it again and again (seeing as his treasury is A) nigh-infinite and B) all weapons restock themselves after some time), until Ainz stays dead.

GG Ainz-sama indeed.

 

[О_Ху_Елкин]

Gil not taking down Shirou was pure PIS and arrogance. In this fight, Gil knows Ainz has ways to kill him. He isn't taking chances. Fight begins -> Gil unrestricts SNI and sees the precise steps and weapons needed to defeat Aiz -> Gil restricts Ainz with Enkidu, stopping him from moving or using spells, then (the weapons don't need to be random, he can choose what he wants easily too) fires all his regen regating, resurrection negating, holy/fire, spacial cutting weaponry from every angle before finishing it up with a charged Ea to Ainz's bony face, and the whole thing is over in about 5 seconds, let alone 12. And when/if Ainz resurrects, Gil does it again and again (seeing as his treasury is A) nigh-infinite and B) all weapons restock themselves after some time), until Ainz stays dead.
GG Ainz-sama indeed.

Maybe you forgot - but I will remember: Gil understimated Shirou firstly, then he realised his mistakes and guess what? Tried to pull the Ea! But Shirou just owerhelm him and didnt give him a chance to bring the only toy Gil more or less familiar. Like, seriously, just an ordinary-high-schooler with practically non-existent magic and more or less ordinary human body just didnt give him a chance to pull his toys out of Gates. In melee. When Gil was abcolutely advantageous. Great, Gilgamesh-sama, truly splendid!

Second - okay, Gilgamesh know that Ainz is powerful caster with way to kill him. Like, did it really change anything? Gil is a piece of shit that fighted many of powerful casters with way to kill him - doh, every servant had a way to kill him! So, he fighted every one of them with all of his force?

Third - well, even more, we can even say that he will fight with all of his treasures - so? Like I said, still no proof that his attacks just be powerful enough to kill Ainz. Ea? Yes. Throwing? Well, not so much.

Fourth - to beginning. Gilgamesh has a conceptual-time-manipulation-resistance? Nope? Sorry for him.

Fifth - okay, even more. People above argued about insta-kills, but this is just BS, to judge the real Ainz by game logic. Like, in game it worked like in game - Wish as the example. In real life it works properly, like message, illusions and other stuff. Insta-kill - sasuga, Ainz-sama!

Sixth - abouth the Wish, yes! I wish this blondy perish - gg.

Seventh - what about reality-manipulation-resistance? Ainz has a reality slash - a true reality slash, you know.

Eighth - okay, this is not enough for you - well, you know, the Ainz has more than enough hax. Why? Because his power still uncertain - he has a buch of divine items, rings, a lot of spells (like 700+) even WCI. I bet my dibs, some of this items and skills are total BS, more than enough to destroy blondy.

Nineth - and okay, even if for some mysterious reason Gil will kill Ainz, he will die after. Because TGOALID is postpone the certain death, not killing after some time. The death already stated - it just go into force 12 sec later.

Okay, I think - that is more than enough. Have a good night.

 

[BlackDaryl]

You know, I have no problem whether or not Gil or Ainz win this but do you really need to downplay one of the player so that the other can win?

"Like, seriously, just an ordinary-high-schooler"

Right, an ordinary highschooler that can creates a separate world and summons magical swords.

"with practically non-existent magic"

So you completely ignore the time when Shirou makes dozens of projections when fighting Archer? And FYI Shirou who fought with Gil was being supplied prana by Rin, who has 20 times the amount of prana compared to the average matured magus.

"and more or less ordinary human body"

Which can be enhance through magic... like Souichiro's punches that could break metal into pieces. Does that sound like what an ordinary human body can do?

Shirou in the beginning of the series was able to reinforce a rolled up newspaper until it's as hard as steel, not to mention later on Shirou was constantly absorbing Archer's abilities and experiences in their fight - thereby strengthening him to the point of being able to go toe to toe with an exhausted Servant.

"Second - okay, Gilgamesh know that Ainz is powerful caster with way to kill him. Like, did it really change anything? Gil is a piece of shit that fighted many of powerful casters with way to kill him - doh, every servant had a way to kill him! So, he fighted every one of them with all of his force?"

When he's serious? Then yes, he did. Like how he immediately pull Ea in the beginning right when he fought with Iskandar. He only becomes lax when he thinks that there's no more threat that his opponent can give him, like that time when he let Iskandar get close enough to him to nearly slash his head... only to immediately crush that hope when he pulled Enkidu and binds Iskandar's body, showing that he has no hope in the first place.

The only reason he lost to Shirou is due to PIS and CIS, hell he didn't even wear his armor when he fights Shirou, if he did, his arm wouldn't be sliced.

"Third - well, even more, we can even say that he will fight with all of his treasures - so? Like I said, still no proof that his attacks just be powerful enough to kill Ainz. Ea? Yes. Throwing? Well, not so much."</span>

What? Even excluding Ea, multiple Mountain level attacks and various hax such as soulf*ck will overwhelmed and crush Ainz to death. Not to mention Gil has more than one weapon that can tore through magic.

"Fifth - okay, even more. People above argued about insta-kills, but this is just BS, to judge the real Ainz by game logic. Like, in game it worked like in game - Wish as the example. In real life it works properly, like message, illusions and other stuff. Insta-kill - sasuga, Ainz-sama!"

Real world that still has level system and resistance towards magic. What? Just because you say so, suddenly magic resistance or luck that could bent the laws of causality doesn't even work anymore?

"Seventh - what about reality-manipulation-resistance? Ainz has a reality slash - a true reality slash, you know."

That's different from direct reality warp. A lot of people can use small scale reality warping but limited in their uses, just because Ainz can use reality slash to split the space and use it as an attack doesn't mean he can suddenly transform someone into a rock like how a casual reality warpers could. And being able to use that technique doesn't always mean having the resistance to it. Haruhi has universal reality warp but got her powers stolen by someone way below her capabilities in said reality warping.

"Eighth - okay, this is not enough for you - well, you know, the Ainz has more than enough hax. Why? Because his power still uncertain - he has a buch of divine items, rings, a lot of spells (like 700+) even WCI. I bet my dibs, some of this items and skills are total BS, more than enough to destroy blondy."

So basically NLF..... you know I could throw that back at you. Gil's treasury contains a bullshit amount of treasures to the point where there's a spaceship that can travel at lightspeed. There's also the thing where he keeps on loathing and fighting the Gods, who's around the same level as Kiara that can do bullshit things like this (P.S. Yes, that's the earth).

"Nineth - and okay, even if for some mysterious reason Gil will kill Ainz, he will die after. Because TGOALID is postpone the certain death, not killing after some time. The death already stated - it just go into force 12 sec later."

Except like I said before, TGoALiD isn't Ainz's go to spell. He's not gonna use it immediately with only knowledge that Gil has a treasury of very powerful weapons, on the contrary that would more than likely impede him from doing so as he would think that Gil has something akin to a resurrection items seeing as he himself and even Shalltear has one.

And if Ainz die before TGoALiD is completed then the spell won't be activated. It only took effect the moment it reaches 12 o'clock the spell will be canceled because its caster is dead. And I wonder how Ainz's spell will be if his magic is disrupted with weapons that can tore through magic.

 

[О_Ху_Елкин]

You know, I have no problem whether or not Gil or Ainz win this but do you really need to downplay one of the player so that the other can win?

If I needed to downplay someone!

Right, an ordinary highschooler that can creates a separate world and summons magical swords.

I talk about body characteristic. So you completely ignore the time when Shirou makes dozens of projections when fighting Archer? And FYI Shirou who fought with Gil was being supplied prana by Rin, who has 20 times the amount of prana compared to the average matured magus.

That is the only one skill he has. And strengtening something, of course. As I said - one skill, and weapons that just used in melee. No diversity, no magic - melee and copiyng. I expect more from King of Heroes. Which can be enhance through magic... like Souichiro's punches that could break metal into pieces. Does that sound like what an ordinary human body can do?
I didnt say he cant enchance his body or he is weak for a human. But iron-crushing level is not even close to level of Gil\Ainz fight. Didnt even worth considering.

Shirou in the beginning of the series was able to reinforce a rolled up newspaper until it's as hard as steel, not to mention later on Shirou was constantly absorbing Archer's abilities and experiences in their fight - thereby strengthening him to the point of being able to go toe to toe with an exhausted Servant.

Toe-to-toe with an exhausted servant? No, toe-to-toe with Gil who cant even fight with kid goddamit. I would like to saw his fight with exhausted Sasaki Koujiro. All of 3 seconds it will took.

When he's serious? Then yes, he did. Like how he immediately pull Ea in the beginning right when he fought with Iskandar. He only becomes lax when he thinks that there's no more threat that his opponent can give him, like that time when he let Iskandar get close enough to him to nearly slash his head... only to immediately crush that hope when he pulled Enkidu and binds Iskandar's body, showing that he has no hope in the first place.

Yes, he was very serious in Archer's fight, Medea's fight, Heracles's fight... The only reason he killed Iskander with Ea is only because he respected him (more or less). And to destroy his goddamn EX phantasm. And he just didnt use on other enemy (berserk namely) who had a very powerful phantasm, that can be easely counteered with Ea though.

The only reason he lost to Shirou is due to PIS and CIS, hell he didn't even wear his armor when he fights Shirou, if he did, his arm wouldn't be sliced.

This is right, but my point is still here. If he lost - he lost, it cant be rewrited. So - he is just THAT selfconfident, to not use his armor. Just another confidende of his carelessness.

What? Even excluding Ea, multiple Mountain level attacks and various hax such as soulf*ck will overwhelmed and crush Ainz to death.

If he will actually use his armory - yes, he can do a lot of really powerful attacks with BS effects. But he didnt fight with them, as I said - he just throw them like garbage with nearly zero efficiency. That is why he lost to Shirou - he just throwed them so Shirou can came in melee - and then lost because he literally didnt know how to fight properly with them.

Not to mention Gil has more than one weapon that can tore through magic.

Yes. So what? Passive nulification are not magic - but even if it was - Ainz have a good physical\magic defence and lot of health.

Real world that still has level system and resistance towards magic.

Real world that I doubt has level system. This is just measure of power or an information from the YGGDRASSIL. I mean, no one level-up in real world, no one gain exp, no one took the classes - so, this is just a measure of power. And what do you have against magic resistance?

What? Just because you say so, suddenly magic resistance or luck that could bent the laws of causality doesn't even work anymore?

Magic resistance work - but as I say, even if his resistance even greater that Arthuria's - I doubt it will make a lot against Ainz. And luck - well, he was not so lucky all the time we saw him, silly parameter. But okay - he will outlive a pair of spells. Still not impressed. That's different from direct reality warp. A lot of people can use small scale reality warping but limited in their uses, just because Ainz can use reality slash to split the space and use it as an attack doesn't mean he can suddenly transform someone into a rock like how a casual reality warpers could. And being able to use that technique doesn't always mean having the resistance to it. Haruhi has universal reality warp but got her powers stolen by someone way below her capabilities in said reality warping. With Wish can, lol, but it is not the point. As i said - Ainz can slice the reality and, well, Gil on the way. Does Blondy have any resistane to it? That is the point. So basically NLF..... you know I could throw that back at you. Gil's treasury contains a bullshit amount of treasures to the point where there's a spaceship that can travel at lightspeed. There's also the thing where he keeps on loathing and fighting the Gods, who's around the same level as Kiara that can do bullshit things like this (P.S. Yes, that's the earth). I know, just point out that this much is silly when one character (Gil) was more or less characterised when Ainz - practically not. And both of them had a lot of BS in their pockets - Inz just have more arguments to be the winner. Except like I said before, TGoALiD isn't Ainz's go to spell. He's not gonna use it immediately with only knowledge that Gil has a treasury of very powerful weapons, on the contrary that would more than likely impede him from doing so as he would think that Gil has something akin to a resurrection items seeing as he himself and even Shalltear has one. You have the point. I can agree with this - though, still would like to say that Ainz definitely will win. Took an effect And if Ainz die before TGoALiD is completed then the spell won't be activated. It only took effect the moment it reaches 12 o'clock the spell will be canceled because its caster is dead. And I wonder how Ainz's spell will be if his magic is disrupted with weapons that can tore through magic.

That skill was called [The Goal Of All Life Is Death]. In that moment, a clock face appeared behind Ainz, its hands indicating 12:00. Then, he cast a spell: "[Widen Magic - Cry of the Banshee]." A woman's wail echoed through the air. This cry carried with it an instant-death effect. Ainz had used various skills to augment this spell, so its potency was greater than normal and harder to resist. Still, it was useless against Shalltear and the Einherjar construct. Oddly enough, Shalltear's summoned minions — who had no resistance to instant death — did not fall.

...Ainz's trump card, [The Goal Of All Life Is Death] strengthened the effect of instant death magic and skills. Thus augmented, those instant-death effects could bypass any immunities or resistance and kill their targets after a certain amount of time had passed.
So, he using the skill, then insta-kill - and bypassing immunites, everything dies. Death already stated - but it took effect only after 12 seconds.

And also, would like to tell: The 4,6 point's and point about Shirou just not giving him a time to do a shit and owerhelming him still is there, so I think it is already enough. Sasuga, Ainz-sama!

 

[Rin_Rokudo]

Lol this downplay has reached values that aren't even supposed to be possible.

 

[Fabtastic_Glasses]

Aside from 1 obvious idiotic troll. Wasn't this match concluded and have met the requirements to be added already ?

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Let me break this down clearly for you.

All of Ainz's direct damage spells, including such things as spatial manipulation, reality warping, soul manipulation, etc, will be completely nullified by Gil's armour, which has a higher magic resist than Saber, who is completely unnaffected by magic from the age of the gods, something that Ainz's magic is neither old enough, nor powerful enough to qualify for.

Ainz's instant death spells are both affected by magic resistances, and have a chance of working, or in other words, a change of not working. Gil's superhigh magic resist, and luck levels that literally bend causality will make it so that the chance of any of Ainz's instant death spells getting through is practically nothing.

Ainz's TGoALiD spell takes 12 seconds to activate. If he dies before then, it won't. That is common sense. And that isn't even considering if Gil simply binds him with Enkidu or fires Rule Breaker and Gae Dearg at Ainz to nullify and shatter his magic, because as long as it isn't a divine construct, Gil has it in his treasury. He also has Harpe, Gae Buidhe, and other weapons that negate healing, as well as weapons that can cut through space, souls, etc.

Gil was not serious in any of the fights in F/SN, or else he would have used his armour. Hell, he wasn't even serious in his fights in Zero, even Iskander he simply respected him enough to allow him to get close and have hope, before crushing that hope.

Even ignoring the incredible CIS and PIS of Shirou's fight with Gil, Shirou's magic is quite literally the perfect counter to Gil's, allowing him to create and cancel out Gil's sword spam with his own, while also giving him the skills and strengths of the wielder of the weapon he is using to allow him to fight. Ainz does not have such a magic.

 

[BlackDaryl]

Dude, organized your sentences, I have a hard time finding your replies here. Don't blame me if I miss any cuz I don't care if I do if I have to go through squinting my eyes and scrolling repeatedly just to find 1 line of sentence.

"If I needed to downplay someone!"

If you need to downplay one player so the other could win then that shows that he doesn't deserve that.

"I talk about body characteristic."

Which doesn't matter whatsoever because they have freaking magik (misspelled on purpoise). There are multiversal lolis out there that can f*ck with reality and we say nothing about their body characteristics.

"That is the only one skill he has. And strengtening something, of course. As I said - one skill, and weapons that just used in melee. No diversity, no magic - melee and copiyng."

No diversity? Those tons of different weapons that he scanned and able to use actually means no diversity to you? And no magic? Wtf? He can use every single abilities that those weapons have such as Berserker's NLBW or Saber's Excalibur, seriously your downplay is just stupid and I won't even bother to address it anymore since everyone know how ridiculous it is.

Also, who cares with only having few skills? Haruhi only has her reality warp but if she can control it then she will turn both Ainz and Gil into Play Doh no matter how ' diverse' their skills are.

"I didnt say he cant enchance his body or he is weak for a human. But iron-crushing level is not even close to level of Gil\Ainz fight. Didnt even worth considering."

I didn't say that it's close to the level of Gil/Ainz fight, it was for Shirou at the beginning who was nothing more than an inexperienced magus. Saying Shirou is just an ordinary high schooler with more or less ordinary human body is the same as saying Ainz is nothing more than a walking skeleton.

"Toe-to-toe with an exhausted servant? No, toe-to-toe with Gil who cant even fight with kid goddamit. I would like to saw his fight with exhausted Sasaki Koujiro. All of 3 seconds it will took."

Except Gil IS weaker than most Servant in terms of melee, not to mention that Shirou can use a portion of the wielder of the weapon that he projected to further enhanced his power while Gil can't Melee is not Gil's combat style. Try to think Caster fighting a barehanded fight against Souichirou and laughs at how short it would be. And again, why are you even bringing this up? Gil is fighting Shirou, his perfect counter while he doesn't even see him as a threat. Very different from the scenario against Ainz who's a magician and won't even go melee against him like Shirou did.

You rely on Gil being arrogant enough to underestimate his opponent but he won't do that against Ainz because he's serious right now. Also he has SNI.

"Yes, he was very serious in Archer's fight"

What fight are you talking about, he basically just attacked him when he's already on his last legs after his fight with Shirou.

"Medea's fight"

Medea has no idea whatsoever about Gil and he basically doesn't need Ea to do so which would be overkill. Ainz isn't gonna use TGoALiD when he's facing against a low-level angel summons now isn't he? Cause that would be dumb.

"Heracles's fight. The only reason he killed Iskander with Ea is only because he respected him (more or less). And to destroy his goddamn EX phantasm. And he just didnt use on other enemy (berserk namely) who had a very powerful phantasm, that can be easely counteered with Ea though."

Because there's Shinji and Ilya in the vicinity and he's not even as serious as when he's using it in F/HA or F/Z. In fact, in F/HA he despises those hordes of shadows and yet he still uses Ea immediately to clear them, despite capable of using ordinary NPs to do so (which he already shown to be capable of).

"This is right, but my point is still here. If he lost - he lost, it cant be rewrited. So - he is just THAT selfconfident, to not use his armor. Just another confidende of his carelessness."

He lost and no denying that but how is your point still stands when that's only because he wasn't taking Shirou seriously? Hell, he was waiting for Shirou to get up and waiting to see what he still has to offer. To him, Shirou is nothing more than a jester that gives him some amusement.

While in this fight with Ainz, OP clearly states that he will be serious about winning so he'll definitely use SNI and equip his armor.

"If he will actually use his armory - yes, he can do a lot of really powerful attacks with BS effects. But he didnt fight with them, as I said - he just throw them like garbage with nearly zero efficiency. That is why he lost to Shirou - he just throwed them so Shirou can came in melee - and then lost because he literally didnt know how to fight properly with them."

Do you actually know what happened in the final fight? Because if you do, you will know that Shirou DIDN'T give Gil any chance to effectively use any of his weapon. The moment he pull out something, Shirou scan it and immediately use the exact same one Gil pull to deny him a chance to use it. Basically, Shirou only able to corner him because he's much faster at pulling and intercepting his weapons.

He also notices Heracles' power immediately and chooses suitable weapons that can harm him. And if you look at his bridge fight against Saber in Fate, then you'll know that he didn't randomly summon his weapons (using a sword of ice to freeze Saber's path to delay her and then immediately use a scythe that can shaved away her bone despite being blocked, showing once again that he knows Saber will use his armor to block so he uses a weapon that will get pass that).

"Yes. So what? Passive nulification are not magic - but even if it was - Ainz have a good physical\magic defence and lot of health."

Who says that it would directly attack Ainz? I said it would tore through magic so obviously it would target the magic that Ainz use, not himself. If he's using any spell, it would be dispersed.

"Real world that I doubt has level system. This is just measure of power or an information from the YGGDRASSIL. I mean, no one level-up in real world, no one gain exp, no one took the classes - so, this is just a measure of power. And what do you have against magic resistance?"

Oh right, it doesn't have levels, what I thought before was actually spell ranking. But my point still stands since magic resistance is an actual ability stats and even Ainz used elemental resistance against Shalltear.

"Magic resistance work - but as I say, even if his resistance even greater that Arthuria's - I doubt it will make a lot against Ainz."

Yea, now that I look back, the only reason I even bring up magic resistance is because another guy above that I was arguing with said that - and I'm quoting here - "in Yggdrasil the only way to resist instant death spells was to have a high Resistance/Magical Def. stat" honestly I don't remember about this in the LN so I just took his word for it, and I was opposing his other point at the time anyway.

"So, he using the skill, then insta-kill - and bypassing immunites, everything dies. Death already stated - but it took effect only after 12 seconds."

No, it says strengthen/augment the effect of instant death but if it never took effect because the caster is killed before the time is up, then it won't.

What makes me even more convinced of this is the fact that Ainz didn't use any skill at all when he's waiting for the clock to finish its rotation. Implying that he has to maintain it until the end if not the skill won't activate.

"And also, would like to tell: The 4,6 point's and point about Shirou just not giving him a time to do a shit and owerhelming him still is there"

Again, the reason why Shirou could overwhelmed him is because he can launch his weapon faster and intercept Gil's weapon that was just coming out of the GoB. How is Ainz gonna overwhelmed him the same way? When the battle start, he's gonna be surrounded with over 80 Noble Phantasms with different abilities that he know nothing about. Where exactly is he gonna find a way to even overwhelmed Gil when he can only cast his spells one by one while Gil can simply gaze at him and he's bombarded with attacks?

 

[FDrybob]

This is inconclusive. The outcome entirely depends on factors that we have to admit we can't agree on. For example, whether Gilgamesh will go all-out from the get-go, whether Ainz's death magic and reality slashes are resisted, if TGOALID works after Ainz's death, etc. We simply cannot say for sure who wins.

 

[Fabtastic_Glasses]

As per OP ruling, Gilgamesh is serious. So arguments made on the basis of Gil's mood are rendered moot. Besides, Gilgamesh is the kind of dude who will go more seriously if he faces strong opponents, so even without OP ruling making him serious, he'll get serious nonetheless. Magic Resistance in Nasu have shown to resist stuff like spatial, rune based, curse based, etc you-name-it Magecraft. So Most of Ainz's magic will most likely get countered by Gil's MR. TGOALiD only gives Ainz death spell immunity piercing effect with the downside of 12 seconds extra cast time, unless spell casted under TGOALiD has shown to be unaffected by Ainz's state of being, arguments based on "TGOALiD works after Ainz died" is moot because ot has no evidence whatsoever backing it up

Tl;dr

your first 2 points were already addressed before while your 3rd point is nothing more than a speculation (at least currently) and we all know that mere speculations ain't gonna fly in a vs debates

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Current votes

Ainz (6 valid votes, 2 invalid votes, 1 unclear but probably in favor): Elbert Doomray, Gemmysaur, A Hero Long Forgotten (questionable since OP stated Gil is serious), MakinaYuki (same case, Gil is serious and won't underestimate), OmniEverything, CoreOfImbalance, Promstein (not really clear, but siding with Ainz I think), Discofugyurself, ð× ðÑÐâ ðòð╗ð║ð©ð¢

Gilgamesh (10 votes) : ScarletFirefly, JBennet, Tivanenk, ShinyMagicalGirl, SageGodSlayer, Monarch Laciel, HimikoWerckmeister, LokiMasterrace, BlackDaryl (probably, he's never actually said he votes but he seems pretty well on Gil's side), FabtasticGlasses (again, seems to be clearly favouring Gil)

jucaslucus and NotEvenHuman seem to be favouring Ainz, so that might bring it up to [6 valid, 2 invalid, 3 favouring], but NEH revoked his vote and Jucaslucas has provided poitns for both sides so I'm not sure.

Either way, Gil is has >7 votes and is >3 votes higher than Ainz, so the waiting period should start now

 

[BlackDaryl]

Well I guess you could place my vote on Gil.


On the topic of TGoALiD, as I said in my post above:

Ainz didn't use any skill at all when he's waiting for the clock to finish its rotation, even when he's surrounded by attacks and his HP is dwindling. This implies that he has to maintain the spell until the end. If he's killed while still maintaining the spell, then it won't activate.

 

[Xmark12]

Sooooo, is this finished, or are we still waiting?

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

It can be added.

 

[Xmark12]

Gilgamesh's page is locked, so someone will have to ask one of the admins to add it.

 

[Elbert_Doomray]

This topic seems to be already concluded, but it's relevent to add. In the LN, it appears that if Ainz times his spells correctly, he can activate them within timestop, wait down the cd within, and have it activate the moment he cancels the time fuckery.

Granted, he only does this with a spell deliberately designed (Or mayhaps modified, akin to [Widen] Cry of the Banshee) to have a delayed activation, but that point should be moot as TGoaLiD only buffs one of Ainz's spells to ignore all resistance / Kill everything, not actually being an attack in and of itself. Plus with no mention of there being a time restriction on Ainz's time magic, he could easily time it to 11s(econds).

"No attacks would work while time was stopped. Even if he used attack magic to barrage Gazef, it would cause him no harm. Because of that, Ainz cast a spell while keeping track of the time.

"ÒÇîDelay Magic: True DeathÒÇì." This was a ninth-tier spell. Because 'Grasp Heart' was a more convenient spell, he did not use this one often. If no spell could affect an enemy while time-stopped, then all one needed to do was delay the activation of the spell until the moment the 'Time Stop' ended. Although it was a simple combination attack in theory, the trick was getting the timing right, which was extremely difficult. As such, only about 5% of all magic-users could pull it off. After much training and practice, Ainz was in that 5% as well. "...Farewell, Gazef Stronoff. I never hated you." The spell ended, and time returned to the world. Right after that, the other spell activated before anything else. —Gazef slowly fell."

 

[Danieltheguardian]

I vote for Gilgamesh because I think SNI is likely to make him become serious before Ainz becomes serious.

 

[Shallfallen]

I vote for Ainz for reasons previously stated by fellow Ainz supporters.

 

[Xmark12]

Soooo, did anyone add this to Gil's profile?

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Gil's page is locked, but I've added it to the vs match addition request thread. Seeing as the grace period has long since passed, it would be better to lock the thread so no one else can comment on it until the match has been added.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Alright, geez..i'm adding this then...

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

If i go back to the "add thread results" page, that is...