Ainz Ooal Gown vs Gilgamesh (Fate)

[NotEvenHuman]

Actually, can someone provide a scan saying that Luck can negate instant death? I did some reading on the Nasuverse wikia, and there's no mention of the Luck stat doing that. I know you can survive Gae Bolg by getting lucky, but that doesn't mean the same applies to all instant death techniques.

 

[JBennett]

rather then Luck its more of a strenght of will that resist Instant death techniques, Grasp heart can be resisted so its more his will that can resist Ainz's instant death spells.

 

[NotEvenHuman]

Literally what. As far as i know, there's absolutely nothing saying that willpower can help with resisting instant death techniques in the Nasuverse. Willpower also has nothing to do with resisting Grasp Heart or any of Ainz's insta-kill spells, because instant death resistance and immunity are actual stats/atributes in Overlord.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Its actually stated in the Overlord light novels that Ainz's insta-death spells have a probability of success - thats one of the reasons TGoALiD is so powerful, because it also raises the probabiltiy of the spells working to 100%, as well as negating immunity to insta-death. Being a higher level means there's less a chance of the spell working - the higher your level, the higher the chance of the insta-death not working on you. Gil is already the strongest heroic spirit, so if we apply verse equalisation he's easily at the max Overlord level, plus his incredibly high luck means that its highly unlikely Ainz's instakills are going to be successful.

There is a chance of Ainz getting the insta-kill with his spells and winning, but based on Gil's power and Luck, it is highly unlikely to happen.

The way this fight goes is either Ainz gets incredibly lucky and kills Gil with the insta-death, or Gil blade spams Ainz to death (twice if Ainz has a resurrection item) while shrugging off his magical attacks with his armour before TGoALisD's 12 seconds are up. I'm voting Gil, cuz its more likely to happen.

Edit: Here is the passage that shows his insta-kill spells have a chance of working:

[Insta-kill] magic was Momonga's specialty. Momonga had used his innate skills to increase the chances of instant death, and his necromancy-enhancing abilities improved the effectiveness of [Grasp Heart] even further.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Your scan shows insta-death spells can be resisted, my scan indicates it is also chance based. If anything I'd say this is more proof that Gil's magic resistance and luck will stop the insta-kill.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

bump

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

bump

 

[BlackDaryl]

Magic resistance shouldn't do anything against instant death but luck sure would. As I see it, if the instant death spell has a chance of, say, 50% against the opponent, with luck it should be able to decrease that chance depending on how high one's luck is. Considering Gil has A-rank luck (higher than B-rank Saber that could avoid a fatal strike from Gae Bolg) then it would be hard for Ainz to insta kill him.

 

[Discofugyurself]

Though Gil may resist the spell it would still stun him, which would probably lead to Ainz following up with another spell thus Ainz stunlocks Gil to death

 

[BlackDaryl]

Grasp Heart is the only spell stated to stun someone when it's resisted. And even then, Ainz would have to deal with Gil's barrage of GoB before using another skill to attack.

 

[Discofugyurself]

since Ainz will attempt to dodge GoB using the fly spell (which i assume he will) Ainz will have the upperhand considering his proficiency in pvp battles including his autistic level of calculation skills. in all scenarios Ainz would have the upperhand because as soon as the battle began, he would open with Grasp Heart leading to Gil to either 1. Die or 2. to be stunned which again leads to Ainz stunlocking him to death

 

[ScarletFirefly]

^ With Sha Nagba Imuru, outsmarting Gilgamesh is a fool's game. He can read you like a book, see every possibility and outcome and always make the correct choice.

 

[BlackDaryl]

since Ainz will attempt to dodge GoB using the fly spell (which i assume he will) Ainz will have the upperhand considering his proficiency in pvp battles including his autistic level of calculation skills. in all scenarios Ainz would have the upperhand because as soon as the battle began, he would open with Grasp Heart leading to Gil to either 1. Die or 2. to be stunned which again leads to Ainz stunlocking him to death

A fly spell alone isn't gonna avoid barrage of weapons with abilities such as homing and spatial freezing.

 

[Discofugyurself]

By Spatial freezing do you imply Time freezing or...?

 

[ScarletFirefly]

By Spatial freezing do you imply Time freezing or...?

Spatial freezing, as in completely restricting movement in the area around the weapon.

 

[Gemmysaur]

By Spatial freezing do you imply Time freezing or...?

Space.

Time isn't locked (so the target is aware) but anything in the space is held from moving.

Atleast, that's what I understand it is to be.

 

[ScarletFirefly]

^Yes. IIRC when Caster froze the space around Archer, he was aware of it.

 

[BlackDaryl]

Ah sorry, my memory was a bit blurry, it's not an actual space freezing but a sword of ice that freezes the space which it passes through so even when the enemy dodged it, they're still covered in ice.

 

[Promestein]

The Goal of All Life is Death negates resistance to instant death, so I'm pretty sure Ainz can kill Gil with that if his other instant death spells don't work

 

[Jucaslucas]

Ainz has immunity to cold and freezing attacks tho.

 

[Discofugyurself]

Also Ainz would probably use Negative Burst if the weapons sent by GoB become to much to handle

 

[Jucaslucas]

The weapons will never stop coming, so it won't be of much help

 

[Discofugyurself]

The weapons will never stop coming, so it won't be of much help

not in the long term but in short term it would be a BIG help

 

[BlackDaryl]

Also Ainz would probably use Negative Burst if the weapons sent by GoB become to much to handle

Negative Burst was only shown to kill low level angel troops that are probably not even multi-block level (should be lower than Ainz's personally created Lich). Pretty unlikely that it could repel powerful weapons like Merodach or Caladbolg. Not to mention there are weapons that can passes through obstructions like the unnamed scythe he used to attack Saber and shaved away her bone. Additionally, considering Ainz is a magician, Gil would definitely chooses some suitable counters like Gae Dearg and the unnamed sickle with similar power that can tore through magic.

@Jucas yea I said that my memory was blurry and checked it again. It did say 'freezes space' but it's not an actual 'spatial freezing' like I originally thought.

 

[Discofugyurself]

A big problem with this whole scenario is whether or not luck is a factor in resisting instant death spells, in Yggdrasil the only way to resist instant death spells was to have a high Resistance/Magical Def. stat so my only question is, how can luck be considered a part of the Resistance/Magical Def. stat?

 

[BlackDaryl]

Because it's based on probablity (see my previous post above). Also, problem with that is, that's only in Yggdrasil. In Nasuverse, a high rank luck has the ability to alter causality itself so why should we only factor mechanics from Yggdrasil? Also, if Magic Resistance actually play a part then that would better help Gil. Gil himself has an innate Magic Resistance as Archer class and it's further amplified with his armor that grants immunity to petrification and capable of tanking numerous blows from Saber without a scratch. It's also higher level than Saber's armor which was capable of tanking Gil's Enuma Elish for a short moment. This is still not considering the various shields he posses that could further amplify it.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Well Gil's innate magic resist is pretty terrible, but his armour brings it up to ridiculous levels.

@Promstein TGoALiD delays all insta-death spells cast during its 12 seconds until the end of those 12 seconds, so even if Ainz uses it, Gil can still just blade spam him to death with weapons that destroy magic before it activates. And even if we consider him not being able to kill Ainz in those 12 seconds, Gil's Sha Nagba Imuru means Gil knows this, and can just pull out his ship of light and fly well out of range the moment Ainz activates TGoALiD

 

[Jucaslucas]

He doesn't have to use it in an AoE tho. He can combo it with grasp heart and Gil won't be able to evade.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

The ship of light can travel light years in seconds. Do not try to tell me Grasp heart would be unavoidable when Gil can get light years away from it before it can even activate

 

[Jucaslucas]

I don't think that's how it works. The spell hits him instantly, but it takes 12 seconds to have an effect. It shouldn't really matter how far from Ainz he is, since it will be like a clock bomb wrapped around on his body.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

If you can find me some scans that show Grasp Heart or a similar spell instantly hits someone but takes time to activate when TGoALiD is active, I'll concede that point. I still think that Gil could kill Gil before the 12 seconds are up though.

 

[Jucaslucas]

He's only used TGoALiD once, so, I can't do that. He needed the AoE to beat Shalltear and her summons. That's how it worked with Cry of the Banshee, so it should be the same way with other spells.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Ok, I just had a look at the anime fight again. It does appear as if the spell 'hits' as soon as its cast, even if it doesn't affect until the 12 seconds are up, so I concede that if Ainz combos Grasp Heart with TGoALiD it will kill Gil. But with SNI, Gil knows that too. He's not going to let Ainz survive those 12 seconds. He's going to spam magic-negating weaponry from every direction around Ainz that will tear through whatever protective spells Ainz has and reduce him to a pile of bones.

 

[BlackDaryl]

Problem is TGoALiD isn't Ainz's go to spell. He's not gonna use it immediately with only knowledge that Gil has a treasury of very powerful weapons (read OP), on the contrary that would more than likely impede him from doing so as he would think that Gil has something akin to a resurrection items seeing as he himself and even Shalltear has one. Without casting TGoALiD at first, he would be screwed because he needed to deal with barrage of weapons at once and won't have the luxury to cast anything to Gil. Gil on the other hand, actually uses Ea first when he's serious (he's only been in a serious fight twice and he uses Ea first in both fights). And a serious Gil is capable of deploying at least 80 weapons at once seen from his fight against Iskandar.

Also, let's talk about Grasp Heart itself. We've only seen Ainz deploying it once, however, the nature of the spell should be quite obvious.

Momonga reached out an empty hand and cast his spell.

"[Grasp Heart]."

This spell was one that crushed a foe's heart, and among the ten tiers of spells, it was an instant death spell of the 9th tier. Many of the necromantic spells which Momonga was adept with possessed instant death properties, and this was one of them.

Momonga had chosen to open with this spell because even if it was resisted, the spell would still temporarily stun his opponent.

If the spell had been resisted, his plan was to take the two girls and jump back into the still open [Gate]. He had already planned his route of retreat since he was not sure what his opponents could do.

However, it would seem those preparations would not be necessary.


A feeling of something soft crushing beneath Momonga's fingers travelled up his arm, and the knight collapsed silently to the ground

If you can't visualize it, check the anime since it's much clearer there. Basically Ainz needed to reach out his hand to target his opponent and then crush his heart with his hand. It's not instant or unavoidable and definitely has a range, and with SNI Gil is aware of that.

 

[Jucaslucas]

He has used it on vol 12 to one shot dragons too.

 

[BlackDaryl]

You mean Grasp Heart? It doesn't bring anything new to the table though, my main point about it is that it needed to be targetted, not instantaneous nor unavoidable and has a range. Gil is aware of those with SNI.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Do we know of any other insta-death spells Ainz has? CotB, DAV, and GH are the only ones I know of, and it seems like Gil could get away from all of them - flies away from CotB, doesn't get close enough for DAV to work, doesn't give Ainz the chance to reach out and GH

 

[Jucaslucas]

True Death.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

How is it used? (i.e. Grasp Heart requires reaching out and telekinetically crushing their heart)

 

[Jucaslucas]

It seems like he just casts it then you die.