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Ainz and the Great Tomb of Nazarick are trying to conquer your favorite verse, how does this goes ?
- Thread starter DALOKA
- Start date
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Even Gunha?
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I mean, nah. Misaki, Mugino and Gunha stand no chance against him. Idk about Misaka as she can one shot but Ainz seem good haxed. Rest stomp him no doubt
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So Kakine stomp him.
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I don't think Ainz has any way to defeat Kakine... Dude has high regen and can't really die.
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Can't TGoALID kill him though?
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Instant death ignores regen but well NLF so the highest it has affected is high-mid
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Kakine is not even organic target. As long as Dark Matter exists, Kakine exists and can't be killed.
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Last I checked high mid is below high though so he won't be instagibbed. TGOALID kills none organic stuff too
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How is kakines resistance to soul destruction as I didn't see anything saying he resist soul destruction/manip.
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He doesnt have a soul
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Kakine no longer has one
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Also, as long as Dark Matter exists, Kakine will not die. So TGOALID does nothing.
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Then that should be added to his profile that's sorta a major resistance/immunity
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Its kinda there already. He is now just a personality inserted on a body made of Dark Matter iirc
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He doesn't have mind, either. He just isn't even a human anymore. He can be manifested by any bit of Dark Matter that still exists but that doesn't mean he has as many souls.
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So he is an energy construct without a soul. Also this doesn't mean he is immune to mind manipulation unless stated, as energy constructs can have sentience making it a target for mind hax, there are also abilities in fiction that mind hax even things without sentience.
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from his profile: Due to Academy City using his power while he was incapacitated, Kakine learned to make human cells out of Dark Matter, a knowledge he used to replace his body and organs with Dark Matter replicas. He now no longer no longer distinguishes between his actual body and the parts fabricated from his power. All Dark Matter is now part of the existence known as Kakine Teitoku. Because of this he is no longer getting older and does not need to eat, sleep or breath, while still keeping most of his previous powers.
This doesn't really imply he lost his soul only that he shifted his physical state of being. I don't doubt he lacks a soul just saying there should be an actual note of it on his profile to avoid confusion.
As muchacho stated being made of inorganic matter/energy only offers resistance to biological mind manip, things like magical mind manip would still work especially if said mind manip has been known to effect inorganic beings. seeing as golems and robots can be mental maniped in overlord I think its kinda a moot point.
Also muchacho death manip that doesn't harm the body negs regen up to high AFAIK , as the body isn't harmed there is nothing to fix, thus there is nothing to actually regenerate. This is all made pointless as kakine has type eight immortality just thought Id explain my understanding of death hax and regen.
This doesn't really imply he lost his soul only that he shifted his physical state of being. I don't doubt he lacks a soul just saying there should be an actual note of it on his profile to avoid confusion.
As muchacho stated being made of inorganic matter/energy only offers resistance to biological mind manip, things like magical mind manip would still work especially if said mind manip has been known to effect inorganic beings. seeing as golems and robots can be mental maniped in overlord I think its kinda a moot point.
Also muchacho death manip that doesn't harm the body negs regen up to high AFAIK , as the body isn't harmed there is nothing to fix, thus there is nothing to actually regenerate. This is all made pointless as kakine has type eight immortality just thought Id explain my understanding of death hax and regen.
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It's skipping the 'work' needed to put down your opponent and going straight to the finish line; pretty much death. At-least that's my understanding? I'll just go with that safe bet of high mid instead of being lectured on how something works in some verse
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Ill ask around a bit but my understanding is high regen won't save you if the death manip doesn't damage the body. As again there is nothing to fix/regen your molecular/atomic structure didn't change...Youve simply ceased to live.
Edit looking over previous threads on the matter...it looks like the most we could say is it could bypass mid high(I think the previous threads on the matter seem rather long and muddled), as thats the point where things stop being alive in the first place. Ie the point where it stops being living cells and become inorganic compounds/energy. The problem then becomes tgoalid and it;s ability to explicitly kill the non living....
Edit looking over previous threads on the matter...it looks like the most we could say is it could bypass mid high(I think the previous threads on the matter seem rather long and muddled), as thats the point where things stop being alive in the first place. Ie the point where it stops being living cells and become inorganic compounds/energy. The problem then becomes tgoalid and it;s ability to explicitly kill the non living....
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The problem here is that Ainz would need to get all of the Dark Matter. If even the most minuscule speck is left over, he's gonna be in trouble. Which can be a really bad problem because Ainz only used Cry of the Banshee because Shalltear summoned Einherjar and her household, so he needed a lot of quick death.
And like the others said, Kakine now is not Kakine from before. He's more or less a personality inputted into Dark Matter that continues self replicating. A better way to look at it would be an AI that isn't inside a computer.
You could make a debate if Dark Matter would be affected just the same, because it is not normal matter, merely mimicks it, and follows entirely different laws, but I think that'd just be a discussion for the sake of fun and not anything serious. I don't see it going anywhere.
And like the others said, Kakine now is not Kakine from before. He's more or less a personality inputted into Dark Matter that continues self replicating. A better way to look at it would be an AI that isn't inside a computer.
You could make a debate if Dark Matter would be affected just the same, because it is not normal matter, merely mimicks it, and follows entirely different laws, but I think that'd just be a discussion for the sake of fun and not anything serious. I don't see it going anywhere.
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i don't disagree kakines type eight makes ainz death magic useless here, i was more focused on the nature of regen interacting with death manip.
It should really be on kakines profile that he lacks a soul, I saw this exact argument derail an entire thread because no one has added it. i don't disagree it sounds like he wouldn't but it's not explained nor implied on his profile.
It should really be on kakines profile that he lacks a soul, I saw this exact argument derail an entire thread because no one has added it. i don't disagree it sounds like he wouldn't but it's not explained nor implied on his profile.
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I agree that it's a pretty important resistance to have, not sure why changing your body's makeup would make you lose your soul, so i'll ignore such claims until he has it on his profile.
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My manz Accelerate did a response to me and gave here a better explanation than I would do:
"Kakine has no soul. He's literally dead, everything that he is made of is just matter with his personality written into it like data. He is an inanimate object of information within matter that doesn't exist. Think of him like an AI in a video game. He isn't alive but he's following data within his coding that is similar to his real life counterpart. He's literally just a mass of organs in a freezer and is dead. Every DM copy is inanimate and just matter, therefore he lacks a soul."
"Kakine has no soul. He's literally dead, everything that he is made of is just matter with his personality written into it like data. He is an inanimate object of information within matter that doesn't exist. Think of him like an AI in a video game. He isn't alive but he's following data within his coding that is similar to his real life counterpart. He's literally just a mass of organs in a freezer and is dead. Every DM copy is inanimate and just matter, therefore he lacks a soul."
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Great, put that on the darn profile so people don't get confused. seriously ive seen entire threads becoming derailed because this explantion and his lack of soul isn't on his profile. Make a crt and put it there so this confusion doesn't contiue. As it is nothing on his profile explains this, nor implies it. I don't disagree that makes sense! it should be on the profile!
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Great, you or him/her should add it on his profile or start a CRT. Imo that sounds like a dead dude that transferred his consciousness to something else.
Not that it applies to Toaru but the verse I just finished reading had an intangible creature born from the collective consciousness of monsters, under normal circumstances it should not have a soul, how can the intentions/will of monsters given intangible form have a soul? But nope, turns out it did.
Not that it applies to Toaru but the verse I just finished reading had an intangible creature born from the collective consciousness of monsters, under normal circumstances it should not have a soul, how can the intentions/will of monsters given intangible form have a soul? But nope, turns out it did.
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I'LL SURE DO
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Thank you, im just glad this confusion can finally end 
Sorry if i came across overly agressive, ive just seen that same argument completely derail threads and couldn't believe it hasn't been added to the profile.
Sorry if i came across overly agressive, ive just seen that same argument completely derail threads and couldn't believe it hasn't been added to the profile.
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Okay so......
Darkest Dungeon: They don't take over this verse, the heart eventually just planet busts or Ainz and co get trapped by the farmstead. That said they can likely convert the hamlet to their side.
Castlevania: This is also a no, Dracula laughs at them and throws his wine glass at them. Aeon time stops and slaps, Chaos exists. However they can probably form an alliance with Alucard and possibly the Belmonts to take Drac down, Soma if he's around might accept their aid too.
Jojo's Bizarre Adventure: Hahaha nope, if he tries to go near Italy GER does what it does. I could see them converting the Jojos to their side IF Ainz agrees to let Giorno keep control of the mafia, but I really doubt he takes this. Nvm the non canon stuff.
World of Darkness: Again a nope. Depends on where they're put in. The mages may take a liking to him, or the Giovanni clan might want to cut a deal with Ainz and co. But regardless they don't solo when a mad mage can just poof them out of exsistence by not believing in them.
Guilty Gear: If they annoy Sol enough he will rewrite their everything, I can see Ky probably forming an alliance with them but they won't conquer.
Darkest Dungeon: They don't take over this verse, the heart eventually just planet busts or Ainz and co get trapped by the farmstead. That said they can likely convert the hamlet to their side.
Castlevania: This is also a no, Dracula laughs at them and throws his wine glass at them. Aeon time stops and slaps, Chaos exists. However they can probably form an alliance with Alucard and possibly the Belmonts to take Drac down, Soma if he's around might accept their aid too.
Jojo's Bizarre Adventure: Hahaha nope, if he tries to go near Italy GER does what it does. I could see them converting the Jojos to their side IF Ainz agrees to let Giorno keep control of the mafia, but I really doubt he takes this. Nvm the non canon stuff.
World of Darkness: Again a nope. Depends on where they're put in. The mages may take a liking to him, or the Giovanni clan might want to cut a deal with Ainz and co. But regardless they don't solo when a mad mage can just poof them out of exsistence by not believing in them.
Guilty Gear: If they annoy Sol enough he will rewrite their everything, I can see Ky probably forming an alliance with them but they won't conquer.
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"I could see them converting the Jojos to their side"
Uh, no. There's no JoJo who would go on their side
Uh, no. There's no JoJo who would go on their side
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Pretty sure ainz stomps ger... Ger can't kill him and he eventually outlives giorno
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GER reverts all of his actions and willpower to 0 and keeps throwing 8-C punches until he kills him. Giorno replaces his organs with Gold Experience and keeps going when he hits 80.
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He can't kill Ainz... ever.
And I doubt his willingness to battle for decades.
And I doubt his willingness to battle for decades.
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Meh, it's still unknown if GER needs to just struck person or kill with punches to make infinite death circle. In Stand stats it's just "struck", but I don't think people will agree with this here.
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Okay well guess that's that, what about Novel Kars?
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Ainz's defences should completely nullify an 8-C punch, so it wouldn't do any damage in the first place to slowly wear him down.
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You have no idea how hard it is to get CRT's passed in ToAru verse. Believe me, if I could I'd have all revisions done in one day.The pen or the sword said:
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Wasn't the whole point that GER undoes the death to the point where it already begun, but hasn't happened yet, thus trapping them in endless deaths?
Because that needs him to kill the target.
Because that needs him to kill the target.
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Welp, setting Ainz willpower to 0 is already a win. He then gives no ***** about battle, admits defeat and goes to water his flowers or something
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