About Damn Time - The Soul of Cinder vs The Moon Presence

[Ricsi-viragosi]

but they arent thousent working togheter, they are fused, as such, minds are fused as well

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Your argument is flawed.

Thousands of minds fused into one would still be working together, and would be working together even better than those thousands would if they were not merged.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Your argument is flawed.
Thousands of minds fused into one would still be working together, and would be working together even better than those thousands would if they were not merged.

but they would be one, and working together allows no immunity to mind manipulation, as shown by composite human, you should make a cr if you belive he has resictence

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Anti-Spiral

"Resistance to Mind Manipulation (The collective consciousness behind the manifestation consists of the thousands of minds of the entire Anti-Spiral race)"

There, a precedent.

Unless the Moon Presence has shown the ability to mind hax thousands of people at once, it can't mind hax the SoC who is thousands of people at once. The MP has not to my knowledge shown the necessary scale of mind hax to affect the SoC

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

than do make a cr

 

[Dzhindzholia]

SoC and other bosses of the game can not be affected by Rapport(mind manip technique),maby it is game mechanics but i doubt that.

SoC for reasons above.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

It's unnecessary.

This isn't "SoC has a power"

It's "Moon Presence has not shown the necessary scale to affect something like SoC"

It's Moon Presence's inability, not SoC's ability.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

SoC and other bosses of the game can not be affected by Rapport(mind manip technique),maby it is game mechanics but i doubt that.
SoC for reasons above.

its not as powerful as the moonpresence mind man. so its not that important

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

the hunter is 4c with resistence to mind manipulation

 

[Dzhindzholia]

"its not as powerful as the moonpresence mind man. so its not that important"

So,why do think it is weaker?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

"its not as powerful as the moonpresence mind man. so its not that important"
So,why do think it is weaker?

because it works on hunter, who is both more powerful than the enemies it affects and is resistent to mind manipulation

 

[Dzhindzholia]

So what?It works on hunter that means his resistance is not that good,but ashen one in his peak(4B) can not affect SoC with that spell,but can easily affect multiple other enemies at once.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

So what?It works on hunter that means his resistance is not that good,but ashen one in his peak(4B) can not affect SoC with that spell,but can easily affect multiple other enemies at once.

do said targets have recisrance rrto mindd maipulation? number of targets doesent affect power

 

[Dzhindzholia]

Ashen one can affect hollows(without mind and soul) and even souls,silver knight are just souls inside the armor and you can affect them.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Ashen one can affect hollows(without mind and soul) and even souls,silver knight are just souls inside the armor and you can affect them.

hollows dont have a will to fight its controll, they do have minds though, it broken , but they are pure instincsts, which comes from minds, and silver knights have minds, so your point is moot

 

[Therefir]

This is not Ashen One vs SoC anyway, Monarch make a good point of why MP can't affect SoC with his mind hax.

 

[Therefir]

Updating.

Soul of Cinder: 7 (Mr. Bambu, Therefir, DMUA, Overlord775, Keeweed, Hellbeast1, Dzhindzholia)

Moon Presence: 0

Inconclusive: 0

 

[Dzhindzholia]

@ Ricsi-viragosi

My bad,player can not affect Silver or Black knights.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Updating.
Soul of Cinder: 7 (Mr. Bambu, Therefir, DMUA, Overlord775, Keeweed, Hellbeast1, Dzhindzholia)

Moon Presence: 0

Inconclusive: 0

this should be added

 

[Therefir]

Already added.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Already added.

than it should be closed

 

[Overlord775]

i hope the tier 4 changes won't afffect this battle too much

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

i hope the tier 4 changes won't afffect this battle too much

it will. cinder is the tier he is dou to beings that are capable of affecting the sun (he would be 4c, probably high, but the 4b will be probably removed)

 

[Therefir]

I don't think so, SoC and MP will be still High 4-C.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Was the Moon Presence's flight ever taken into consideration here? Just wondering

 

[DMUA]

Not really, but now that you do bring it up, it still doesn't change much.

All the Souls in the Soul of Cinder have dealt with flying opponents before, and I don't think the Moon Presence even uses it that much.

 

[Therefir]

Considering the majority of SoC's ranged attacks are lightning, and MP is weak to electricity, is not a good idea.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

The Moon Presence is barely weak to electricity

 

[Mr. Bambu]

It is weak to it, however. It is an attack advantage. It has the range to hit Moon Presence as well.


As for SoC being High 4-C, 4-B, it is almost undeniably at least High 4-C. It contains the souls of beings that powered the sun for literally hundreds of thousands of years (at least 9 Lords of Cinder plus an uncountable amount of others; for reference, each Lord likely lasts at least thousands of years on their own, as Gwyn did this, and the Chosen Undead was superior to Gwyn as he defeated him, etc etc)

 

[Keeweed]

Was the Moon Presence's flight ever taken into consideration here? Just wondering

I was thinking about it but the SoC in Gwyn's life killed hundreds of dragons that can could fly, so it's barely an advantage.

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

Taking it the opposite way then, has the Moon Presence ever mind haxxed countless minds simultaneously?
Because the SoC is made of a lot of them. Having that many minds would probably help fight off mind hax.

I mean, that's better reasoning, but still. It's fused into one being, ergo, one mind. And again, regardless of lore details, on this website, Soul of Cinder is treated as a single character, like any other character, with a list of abilities. Resistance to Mind Manipulation is not an ability I see listed on his profile. Ergo, he doesn't have it. If there's an argument to be made that he should have it, then a CR for him should be made. Otherwise, he doesn't have it.

But if his profile does get updated to have it, then that begs the question. Would Moon Presence even have to hax all of SoC's minds? What if he just haxxed the Lords of Cinder part of him which is only a small handful of beings?

 

[Therefir]

Soul of Cinder is treated as a amalgamation of minds.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

If the SoS is an amalgimaton of minds then the MP's mind hax would still work

 

[Therefir]

MP never mind hax something like that, MP just mind hax a bunch of people with one mind.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Even fodder Great Ones can mind hax a city worth of people

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Well this changes things.

Do go on, in great detail if you please.

 

[Therefir]

That only matters if all those people had only one body.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

That only matters if all those people had only one body.

not really, as they have no experience fighting with ,and manipulation and there is no reason to belive that are capable of helping each other

 

[WeeklyBattles]

That only matters if all those people had only one body.

The One Reborn is an entire city's worth of people meged into a single entity, but it was still affected by the Great Ones' hind hax

 

[Therefir]

Okay, but Ever said Soul of Cinder doesnt really have a mind that can be haxxed as its literally just a ton of souls.