About Damn Time - The Soul of Cinder vs The Moon Presence

[Therefir]

The boss will hold its face and release a burst of light. Those hit by this attack will be left with 1HP. It can instantly kill co-operaters with less than 30% health. Once its health is below 30%, this attack will also prevent you from using healing items. After this attack, the boss will be still for a few seconds; if there are no Blood Moon Orbs close to him, rush to the boss and land multiple attacks on him.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Insight is game mechanics

 

[Mr. Bambu]

@Therefir I should mention at this point that the Soul of Cinder would still be able to heal. The healing in Bloodborne is negated only because the healing items are made of the blood of the Great Ones, so they negated their power. Soul of Cinder's healing is not based on this so it wouldn't be a problem.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Therefir I should mention at this point that the Soul of Cinder would still be able to heal. The healing in Bloodborne is negated only because the healing items are made of the blood of the Great Ones, so they negated their power. Soul of Cinder's healing is not based on this so it wouldn't be a problem.

Verse equalization takes care of this

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Verse Equalization changes how powers work.


Oof. Why.

 

[DMUA]

Insight is game mechanics

Despite the fact that it's emphasized in the story that the world is not what you see, and as soon as you kill the guy casting the illusion, everything immediatly goes to hell?


Game mechanics would be taking more damage due to higher insight. I'm pretty sure insight is a thing in canon. And that said, The Soul of Cinder knows quite a lot about magical creatures and the like.

 

[Therefir]

I don't really think Weekly is right on that one... there are several types of healing.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Verse Equalization changes how powers work.
Oof. Why.

Well for one, nothing implies that the Moon Presence's healing negation works the way you described it, and even if it did, thats for one specific verse, verse equalization makes it work on all healing. Thats how verse equalization works

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Despite the fact that it's emphasized in the story that the world is not what you see, and as soon as you kill the guy casting the illusion, everything immediatly goes to hell?
Game mechanics would be taking more damage due to higher insight. I'm pretty sure insight is a thing in canon. And that said, The Soul of Cinder knows quite a lot about magical creatures and the like.

Insight is game mechanics

 

[DMUA]

10/10 arguement laddy. Just repeat what you said before despite my points as to why it's wrong.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

@Weekly DMUA is right. Insight is far from being Game Mechanics. Insight is canonical in-game and has effets in game. Saying otherwise is blatant misunderstanding.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Considering how insight is gained and lost like currency, pretty sure it's game mechanics.

 

[Therefir]

Well, this move leave MP extremely open to attacks.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

@Weekly Well. Considering that everything I said about healing is true (healing is derived purely from the Great Ones blood and all that), that's the only conclusion that seems plausible.

And yeah, I know how Verse Equalization works. Not a very good system. Hence the "Oof"-ing.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Insight is a stat, its nothing more than mechanics that only apply to Bloodborne

 

[Mr. Bambu]

@Everlasting It works by finding items affiliated with Insight (remains of those who had great insight or Umbilical cords of the Gods) and crushing them. You gain Insight also by viewing the Eldritch Truth (seeing bosses) and by finding new areas.

I don't view it as Game Mechanics. Just gonna drop this thread. Getting a bit ridiculous. Just... no. Cya folks.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Insight is numbered. It is not a stat. I'm not sure why you're assuming that its game mechanics considering it actively changes how the Hunter sees the world.

Regardless of how muddled its been made in this thread, my vote is for Soul of Cinder. I've stated my reasons.

 

[DMUA]

Considering how insight is gained and lost like currency, pretty sure it's game mechanics.

How Insight works in game could be considered Game Mechanics, but in the story, Insight is a big thing. They constantly reference how "Our eyes are yet to be open" at several points, the eyes of course representing insight. In fact, the one who cast the illusion was stated to "Have eyes on the inside of his head". The game wouldn't go this in depth over a simple game mechanic.

 

[Therefir]

Anyway I think SoC can kill MP while he is recovering.

 

[Keeweed]

I vote SoC after the hardest fight in it's existence. The SoC is slightly more aggressive, is more skilled and experienced, has resistance to mindhax, and could possibly OHK with a melee sunlight spear or a full shot from soul stream.

 

[Therefir]

Soul of Cinder: 4 (5?) (Mr. Bambu, Therefir, DMUA, Overlord775(?), Keeweed)

Moon Presence: 0

Inconclusive: 0

 

[Overlord775]

@Therefir yes, i think the soul of cinder would win, he has the experience advantage, along with the variety advantage and the stamina advantage and can exploit the moon presence weakness to eletricity based attacks ... and he's grossly incandescent ovo

 

[Keeweed]

@Therefir yes, i think the soul of cinder would win, he has the experience advantage, along with the variety advantage and the stamina advantage and can exploit the moon presence weakness to eletricity based attacks ... and he's grossly incandescent ovo

Wait the moon presence is weak to electricity! SoC rekt's with a single well placed sunlight spear or does that one attack that summons 20 Lightning Spears from the sky (all of them seek the opponent so moon presence isn't dodging it).

 

[Therefir]

It can be dodged if MP start to run like a chicken, like the player, ovo

 

[Keeweed]

It can be dodged if MP start to run like a chicken, like the player, ovo

Well the moon presence would be smart enough to notice the threat so it may run away (it would be hilarious to watch as this Cthulhu monster runs away from lightning bolts).

 

[Therefir]

Quick Bump, just two more votes.

 

[Therefir]

Updating.

Soul of Cinder: 5 (Mr. Bambu, Therefir, DMUA, Overlord775, Keeweed)

Moon Presence: 0

Inconclusive: 0

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

I'm skeptical that Soul of Cinder can resist the mind-hax. Is there any actual instances where he resisted mind-hax?

 

[Therefir]

According to Ever, the Soul of Cinder doesnt really have a 'mind' that can be haxxed as its literally just a ton of souls.

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

Yeah no. Regardless of the details of what makes up Soul of Cinder, it's still, in the practical sense, an entity that acts on its own. We can presume that it has some sort of mind that drives its actions and behavior. Sure, maybe it doesn't have a physical brain, but none the less, it's an entity that has an identifiyable behavior and some level of decision making.

I don't see why we're being so accepting of a character having a form of resistance that it's never shown at all. I know this wouldn't normally fly in other verses debates. Unless it's actually shown resistance to mind-hax, it doesn't have resistance to mind-hax. No reason to claim it does.

Anyway, Moon Presence via mind-hax.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Taking it the opposite way then, has the Moon Presence ever mind haxxed countless minds simultaneously?

Because the SoC is made of a lot of them. Having that many minds would probably help fight off mind hax.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Taking it the opposite way then, has the Moon Presence ever mind haxxed countless minds simultaneously?
Because the SoC is made of a lot of them. Having that many minds would probably help fight off mind hax.

but they are FUSED

 

[Keeweed]

but they are FUSED

It's a fusion of every boss in dark souls 1, every boss in dark souls 2, every lord of cinder, and every Npc and enemy in darks souls 1 and 2; that's two countries worth of people and every powerful entity in the dark souls 1 & 2 setting.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

It's a fusion of every boss in dark souls 1, every boss in dark souls 2, every lord of cinder, and every Npc and enemy in darks souls 1 and 2; that's two countries worth of people and every powerful entity in the dark souls 1 & 2 setting.

yes, but they are fused, is thereanything suggesting that theyre mind isnt?

 

[Keeweed]

yes, but they are fused, is thereanything suggesting that theyre mind isnt?

If it's mind is fused (when it most likely doesn't have a mind in the normal sense of the word anyways) it would make it worse for the moon presence since the mind would the combination of thousands of minds all that are trying to keep the first flame lit as long as it can.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

If it's mind is fused (when it most likely doesn't have a mind in the normal sense of the word anyways) it would make it worse for the moon presence since the mind would the combination of thousands of minds all that are trying to keep the first flame lit as long as it can.

not really, the amount of experience doesent make someone immune to mind manipulation

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Thousands of minds >>>>>>>> one mind

Simple maths.

Harder to hax a lot of minds at once, and their mental strength, all merged and working together, than it would be to hax a single mind.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Thousands of minds >>>>>>>> one mind
Simple maths.

Harder to hax a lot of minds at once, and their mental strength, all merged and working together, than it would be to hax a single mind.

no, if they are fused than they work as one, composite human isnt immune to mind manipulation

if they are fused than al theyre experiences are merged , this is not a thiong that vócan affect mind manipulaion in general, the only motivation thathe could take it is his mind wasent fused (which would make no sense, as hes obviusly capable of deciding what to do) is that the amount of enemies to target would be higher, that here does not count

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

You are right. They are working as one.

And thousands of minds working together as one, is going to be harder to mind hax than a single mind on its own.

As for your second paragraph, you are going to need to make that a little clearer. Though in regards to the last bit, "the amount of enemies to target" is a matter of range, not potency.

 

[Hellbeast1]

Betting on Soul of Cinder for reasons above.