About Damn Time - The Soul of Cinder vs The Moon Presence

[WeeklyBattles]

Soul of Cinder

==Powers and Stats== Tier: High 4-C Name: Soul of Cinder Origin: Dark Souls Gender: None (Is a fusion of the souls of all Lords of Cinder) Age: Unknown by itself, but its souls are thousands of years old Classification: Amalgamation of all the Lords of Cinder, Defender of the First Flame Powers and Abilities: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Immortality (Type 1), Skilled in hand to hand combat, Skilled swordsman and archer, Magic, Statistics Amplification, Fire Manipulation, Magma Manipulation, Lightning Manipulation, Poison Manipulation, Healing, Can create soul weapons and attack with souls, Light Manipulation, Likely many, many other abilities due to holding the souls of the Chosen Undead and possibly the Bearer of the Curse Attack Potency: Large Star level (Immensely superior to the likes of Great Lord Gwy, the Chosen Undead, and the Bearer of the Curse as it is the amalgamation of all past Lords of Cinder) Speed: Relativistic+ (Far superior to the Chosen Undead and Great Lord Gwy) Lifting Strength: Stellar (Far superior to the Chosen Undead and Gwyn) Striking Strength: Large Star Class Durability: Large Star level Stamina: Extremely high Range: Extended melee range with the Firelink Greatsword and other weapons, dozens of meters with various kinds of magic, hundreds of meters if not upwards of a kilometer or 2 with Sunlight Spear. Standard Equipment: Firelink Greatsword, Scimitar, Pike, Staff Intelligence: As a fusion of countless warriors over the course of thousands of years, the Soul of Cinder is an immeasurably skilled combatant, holding proficiency with various different weapons, sorceries, pyromancy, and miracles. Weaknesses: Weak to sorceries, lightning, and darkness based attacks Notable Attacks/Techniques: Power Within: A pyromancy that, when cast, significantly raises the caster's attack rating, as well as providing a large boost to stamina Regenerationn. This does, however, come at the cost of eating away at the Soul of Cinder, resulting in their HP being drained rapidly for the duration. Great Combustion: A large, powerful blast of flames launched from the Soul of Cinder's hands. Great Chaos Fire Orb: Hurls a great chaos fire orb at the target, dealing Fire damage. After the initial impact, a pool of lava will remain for three seconds, dealing additional damage to the target if stepped in. Poison Mist: When cast, a mist is released in front of the Soul of Cinder, causing gradual Poison buildup to foes that stand in it. Once contracted, Poison causes three damage per second for the duration. Sacred Oath: Provides a 10% physical damage and elemental damage absorption buff and increases physical damage dealt by 10% for 60 seconds. Heal Restores HP for the caster and nearby allies equal to 3 times the Spell Buff of the catalyst. Bountiful Light: Gradually restores a large amount of HP. Crystal Soul Spear: Fires a piercing crystal soul spear that can go through a line of enemies. Once fired, this spell has limited homing abilities. Farron Hail: Fires a cascade of soul darts at the target, dealing Magic damage. Homing Crystal Soulmass: Releases a homing crystal soulmass with piercing qualities. Soul Stream: Fires a torrential volley of souls dealing Magic damage to any enemy within it. Soul Greatsword: Creates a soul greatsword in front of the caster, dealing Magic damage to any enemy within the cone of attack. Great Farron Dart: Fires a powerful soul dart at the target, dealing Magic damage. Sunlight Spear: Hurls a lightning spear at the target to inflicting heavy Lightning damage to anything struck by it, and to any enemies that were directly beside the target. Splintering Lightning Spear: The Soul of Cinder hurls a lightning spear into the sky, causing other lightning bolts to rain down in the vicinity. Lightning Stake: Deals heavy lightning damage to anything struck by the immediate impact of the bolt, as well as sundering their poise.

Moon Presence

==Powers and Stats== Tier: At least High 4-C Name: The Moon Presence, Flora, Paleblood Origin: Bloodborne Gender: Unknown Age: Unknown Classification: Great One Powers and Abilities: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Immortality (Types 1 and 6), Magic, Blood Manipulation, Light Manipulation, Mind Manipulation (Merely looking at Great Ones causes one to go insane), Reality Warping, Pocket Reality Manipulation, Flight, Telekinesis, Energy Blasts, Teleportation, Can prevent the opponent from healing, Curse Manipulation (Curses in Bloodborne are the result of inciting the anger of Great Ones), Invisibility (Great Ones and Kin are completely invisible to those lacking Insight, or knowledge of their existence) Attack Potency: At least Large Star level (The most powerful of the Great Ones short of Formless Oedo, Superior to the likes of Ebrietas and Rom, Was the creator of the Hunter's Dream, Required the Hunter to consume 3 One Third Umbilical Cords to reach its level) Speed: Massively Hypersonic (Can keep up with the Hunter) Lifting Strength: Class K (Stronger than Amygdala), Class Z with Telekinesis (Can easily move the moon) Striking Strength: At least Large Star Class Durability: At least Large Star level (Comparable to the Hunter, who needed to consume 3 One Third of Umbilical Cords to reach its level) Stamina: High Range: Standard melee range, Several meters with blood manipulation, Planetary with reality warping and telekinesis Standard Equipment: Pale White Orbs Intelligence: High (Skilled and experienced combatant, can be interpreted as being the individual that orchestrated the Hunt, Great Ones are described as being on a higher plane of thought than humans) Weaknesses: Somewhat weak to electrical attacks Notable Attacks/Techniques: Grab: The Moon Presence will swipe twice then do a forward lunge grab. Swipe: The Moon Presence will smash his right hand on the ground, and just after, use his tentacles to make a very fast swipe. Jump: The Moon Presence will jump on and try to smash the enemy. Blood Moon Orb: The Moon Presence will pop one pale white orb above its head, raining blood down on the enemy. If the blood hits, they will be de-buffed for 20 seconds, and will not be able to heal. Blood Clouds: The Moon Presence summons pale clouds which rise from the ground as it attacks. After a moment, these clouds burst and rain blood in their vicinity. Being hit by the blood prevents healing for a while. Gaze of the Moon: The Moon Presence will hold it's face and release a burst of light. Those hit by this attack will be left with 1HP. Once its health is below 30%, this attack will also prevent the use of healing items. After this attack, the boss will be still for a few seconds. This attack cannot be dodged. Frenzy: Like all Great Ones, the Moon Presence can cause madness to those who look at it.

Alright, its time. Its been a long time coming but now theyre finally on equal grounds. Dark Souls vs Bloodborne. Sun vs Moon. Lets do this. In character, no prior knowledge or prep time, MP's invisibility is restricted, SPEED EQUALIZED. Who wins?

Soul of Cinder- 1 (Mr. Bambu)

Moon Presence - 1 (DMUA)

Inconclusive - 0

 

[Therefir]

Moon Presence's mind hax should be banned.

 

[Schnee_One]

Moon Mindscrews and calls it a day.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

According to Ever, the Soul of Cinder doesnt really have a 'mind' that can be haxxed as its literally just a ton of souls

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

Should have matched SoC with Gehrman.

 

[KinkiestSins]

Following,

I might come back with a more serious post.

Is SoC also baseline Large Star Level?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Bump

 

[KinkiestSins]

How good is Moon's reality warping and what kind of pocket reality manipulation does he have?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Well, a bunch of lesser Amygdalas warped parts of Yharnam with their mere presence, whereas a greater Amygdala created the entire Nightmare Frontier, Living Failures, failed attempts at creating Great Ones, are capable of ripping open holes in reality to an alternate realm as an attack, and the Orphan of Kos, a newborn Great One, created the Huters Nightmare just by being born. The Moon Presence is superior to all of them. Its pocket reality manip comes from creating and being able to manipulate the hunters dream, a planet-moon system, just by making a contract with Gehrman.

Also, to answer your previous question, the SoS is at least 6x baseline

 

[Heilergott]

I've been running around this site like mad, so I'vegot to ask.

Just what the heck even closely indicates that Dark Soul Characters are Star Level? That makes both Canonical AND from their ingame feats no sense at all.

 

[Schnee_One]

I dunno, read the justification.

 

[Heilergott]

Trying to find it. I can't. That's why im writing this.

It cannot just be "First Flame = Sun so gwyn = Sun. That would be the most ... I don#t even know what this would be. Nonsensical to the least. Judging by that logic Kaguya should be Star-level too

 

[Overlord775]

the first flame mantains the existence of the sun, if the first flame fades, the sun goes too, the lords of cinder are powerfull enought re-power the first flame and the soul of cinder is the fusion of every lord of cinder that there have bent

 

[Heilergott]

That is massively flawed logic. No one knows if it even is an actual sun. Or how big it is. it might also be that the first flame just maintains its luminosity, looking at the last scenes of DS3.

How could they justify these changes without even knowing these things?

 

[The_Everlasting]

We had a very massive thread about this and it was agreed.

"No one knows if it even is an actual sun. Or how big it is."

Do we have any reason to believe it isn't?

The sun is visibly dying in DS3 due to the First Flame fading, that's not refutable.

 

[Heilergott]

Ever seen a sun dripping like candlewax? But eh.

Could you please send me a link to the thread? I've been trying to find it. That would help me imensely in understanding this stuff.

 

[The_Everlasting]

It's symbolic of a Darksign.

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1099154

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Ya mean Berserk ovo .

 

[Heilergott]

jesus Christ, all this happened shortly before I joined the site.

Thought on the note of "nothing to indicate it isn't", does this count for ALL suns where nothing indicates ain't a sun?

 

[The_Everlasting]

No, the complete opposite in fact. If nothing implies it isn't a real sun, we have no reason to believe it isn't.

 

[Heilergott]

... If I talk back now this is going to turn into a giant chatwindow. I've just read through the entire thread. Jesus.

 

[DMUA]

The Moon Presence seems to have the better tools of the two, with reality warping and such. I'll go with him for now.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Honestly, the Soul of Cinder is who I'm going with. SoC has the abilities and knowledge of an unknown amount of Lords of Cinder (possibly hundreds of thousands of years worth). He has the skills to take down the Moon Presence, and like said above, I doubt the mindhax would affect an amalgamation of souls.

Soul of Cinder with high-diff.

 

[Therefir]

I'm going with Soul of Cinder via AP advantage, and Mr. Bambu's reasons.

 

[DMUA]

Actually, considering that Reality Warping is useless in combat, I'll side with Soul of Cinder.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I'm going with Soul of Cinder via AP advantage, and Mr. Bambu's reasons.

The Moon Presence has the ap advantage here

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Actually, considering that Reality Warping is useless in combat, I'll side with Soul of Cinder.

Huh? Even extremely weak great ones use reality warping as an attack

 

[Overlord775]

The Moon Presence has the ap advantage here

no, the soul of cinder is the fusion of counteless 4-C, he has the power advantage

 

[WeeklyBattles]

no, the soul of cinder is the fusion of counteless 4-C, he has the power advantage

This is using the low end combination of the six known lords, SoS is low end High 4-C here

 

[Therefir]

I'm going to see the boss battle of Moon Presence, I don't think he use RW in combat.

 

[Overlord775]

actually there are 8 confirmed lords of cinder, the main characters of DS1 and 2, gwyn, and the 5 of DS 3. there are 9 if you count solaire as having liked the fire

 

[DMUA]

Huh? Even extremely weak great ones use reality warping as an attack

I have never seen it, unless you wish to suggest that every bit magic and summoning they do is reality warping?

 

[Therefir]

actually there are 8 confirmed lords of cinder, the main characters of DS1 and 2, gwyn, and the 5 of DS 3. there are 9 if you count solaire as having liked the fire

And countless Lords more, but for the sake of the match, I suppose they are comparable, so SoC wins via experience.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I would count Solaire among the Lords of Cinder, considering that he is a potential Lord.

So, for reference, here are the Lords of Cinder:

Lord Gwyn (DS1)

The Chosen Undead (DS1)

Solaire of Astora (DS1)

The Ashen One (DS3)

Aldrich, Devourer of Gods (DS3)

Yhorm the Giant (DS3)

Ludleth of Courland (DS3)

Prince Lothric (DS3; technically, even though he never linked the fire)

The Abyss Watchers (All of them, DS3)

Bearer of the Curse (DS2)

Unsure if there are any in DS2, I never played all the way through it, but these are the 9 I could think of (excluding Lothric because... you know, never linked the Fire)

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I have never seen it, unless you wish to suggest that every bit magic and summoning they do is reality warping?

Look up the fight with the Living Failures

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Living Failures open portals to the Cosmos, and summon meteors from that portal. This could be interpretted as reality warping.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Also dont forget the MP has an almost OHK AoE attack, is invisible, and has TK

 

[DMUA]

I suppose.


Still, Not something the Moon Presence ever uses in his fight. And considering the Soul of Cinder's experience, I'll stick with him.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

The MP uses the OHK move automatically in the third stage of the fight and at random times when it's not as damaged, and its invisibility is passive

 

[Mr. Bambu]

"OHK AoE" Well... no, it just ALMOST kills you. It is rarely used, leaves the Moon Presence wide open for a considerable amount of time, etc. Not to mention the Soul of Cinder could just enter the next phase.

"is Invisible" Invisibility in Bloodborne is based around Insight, or the lack thereof. Common people cannot see Eldritch beings because their mind blocks it out until they gain insight of said Eldritch beings. There is no way that would affect the Soul of Cinder. It is made up of souls. Same reason the Mind Hax wouldn't affect him.

"TK" Telekinesis? This one I've got nothing for, but that wouldn't make a huge difference.